albeto. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Your post says that shaken baby syndrome is a myth. That makes it sound like it doesn't exist. It doesn't just make it sound that way, that's the claim being made. A whole movie has been made to support this claim. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Is this a joke? Shaken baby syndrome is a myth based on "junk science"? What does this have to do with vaccines? :huh: That sometimes it can be an underlining genetic condition causing it, and sometimes the vaccines themselves cause hemorrhaging. But whenever it does happen the parents are immediately blamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 It doesn't just make it sound that way, that's the claim being made. A whole movie has been made to support this claim. I'd have to view the film to know that for sure. The trailer shows that there are heaps of conditions that can look like SBS. And they need to start and look into those before they automatically go and charge the parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I nearly lost my son at 18 months old. I held him thinking these were his last breaths because of a reaction to a routine vaccine. Not at that time, or any time since, have I thought that the entire vaccine industry was to blame, but rather that in the smallest of odds that anything would go wrong, we were unfortunate to draw a short straw. I take a lot a sh!t for not vaccinating my kid from people who don't know what happened. I rarely bother to say more than "we vaccinate selectively on the recommendation of our physician" and I just walk away when I get crap for the gaps in ds's vaccines. There are some he is just never going to be able to have. I'm grateful that others can have those vaccines. That is what herd immunity is for -- to protect the whole herd, including the ones that can't be protected themselves. And I'm willing to listen to lectures on what an irresponsible ingrate I am to not vaccinate him thusly. But I'm not willing to sit and listen to people use our aberrant experience as an excuse to condemn vaccinations on the whole. You have accurately described out situation and my feelings as well. In our case it was our DD at 18 months - labored breathing, sustained fever of 107 degrees, seizures, loss of consciousness, and a heartbeat that it appeared would not hold out much longer. I am eternally grateful for an ER team that knew what they were doing and never gave up hope. It is nothing short of miraculous that she came through okay. My brother has permanent damage from a vaccination reaction, four of his five children were able to be vaccinated without incident but his youngest went the same route at 18 months as our dd. He had some residual damage though in later years he was able to overcome it for the most part. We carefully, slowly vaccinated our other children. I listened to a lot of total crap from medical practitioners but held my ground. They came through just fine, but I never let them have more than one shot per visit just in case so if something went wrong, we'd know which one set off the immune reaction. And like you I would NEVER want our experience to be used to manipulate others into condemnation of vaccinations as a whole. God forbid. My mother had measles and mumps as a child and it was absolutely horrific. My grandmother's older brother died of diphtheria, and she actually suffered some PTSD from being a five year old child compelled to help her mother take care of her dying brother...not sleeping for days because of the gut-wrenching sounds of his labored breathing, the cries of "mamma, help me", the eventual silence, dressing his body and placing it in the little coffin that the men in the community had dropped on the front porch for them, and then retreating to wait for men brave enough to again approach and take him away, the horror of an entire community under quarantine with the majority of families losing a child to the disease. No thanks! Let us not hark back to "the good ole days". 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Your post says that shaken baby syndrome is a myth. That makes it sound like it doesn't exist. The 1 min clip says that without neck injuries it is. SBS can't happen without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 That sometimes it can be an underlining genetic condition causing it, and sometimes the vaccines themselves cause hemorrhaging. But whenever it does happen the parents are immediately blamed. So? Is anyone arguing against the claim that medical conditions aren't always the most obvious suspect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 So? Is anyone arguing against the claim that medical conditions aren't always the most obvious suspect? According to the ex policeman, and the film makers they are. It appears that a lot of innocent people have been charged for that crime, when in fact, they are totally innocent. Hence, them speaking out against the easy route of labelling it SBS, and blaming the caregivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Re the bolded, there are some pretty famous cases of women being mistakenly jailed for causing the death of their baby/babies, when in fact there were genetic conditions/syndromes involved, and the women were later released. I'm not sure that they were accused of shaking the babies though, not sure. Nothing would be worse than losing a child, and then being blamed for it! I can't even begin to image that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 According to the ex policeman, and the film makers they are. It appears that a lot of innocent people have been charged for that crime, when in fact, they are totally innocent. Hence, them speaking out against the easy route of labelling it SBS, and blaming the caregivers. According to the film makers, shaken baby syndrome is a myth and is based on junk science. Why are you trying to promote absurd and dangerous conspiracy theories on an education forum? :huh: 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 According to the film makers, shaken baby syndrome is a myth and is based on junk science. Why are you trying to promote absurd and dangerous conspiracy theories on an education forum? :huh: Did you actually even bother to click the 1 min link, as it explains it there! The title of SBS is flawed, as child abuse has other symptoms like damages to the neck etc... For the brain to be shaken up that much, there has to be other damage done. It's all too easy to say all brain swelling/ bleeding is caused by SBS. That there is a specific agency for that phenomenon shows there is something fishy (like a cover-up) about it. How many *breaking arm or back* agencies are there? Since when have you become the forum police? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Here's the thing: no one is saying what you're describing isn't awful (being wrongly accused of abusing a child when it was a vaccine reaction) or even suggesting it doesn't happen. No one lacks sympathy for your husband's illness. No one is saying vaccine reactions don't happen, or that those with children who have had reactions are wrong for not continuing to vaccinate/vaccinating on an alternative schedule/following their doctor's advice/etc. I think most or all of that goes without saying. The problem most of us are having here, I think, is the hyperbole and the downright hysteria promoted by these "sources" and assertions. "Shaken baby proponents?" Really? You cannot take language like that seriously, or the source behind it. So there's the rub. When you introduce conspiracy theory, common sense and logic go out the window. And that's dangerous. Because all that does is promote this sense of mass hysteria, and then you've got people ignoring facts and science and following fear instead. This is what has led to preventable diseases popping up again, and people like Audrey's son or Faith's family having to worry more about herd immunity failing them. So, yes. Absurd and dangerous. (Also, FWIW, I've been on both sides. I did not vaccinate my oldest son for the first three years of his life. Why? Because I was ignorant and I let fear control my judgement. Period.) 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) nm Edited July 10, 2015 by Susan Wise Bauer This crosses the line from disagreement into personal attack. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'm sorry to hear that about your baby. :'( Yeah, my husband was damaged by the Hep. B shot, as well. He has Lupus now thanks to it. That's why I'm passionate about showing the other side to vaccines. I'm sorry about your husband. I hope he improves. Yes, there seems to be little understanding that every person is not biologically interchangeable and will not react the same way to vaccines, just as they won't all react the same way to other drugs. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'm sorry about your husband. I hope he improves. Yes, there seems to be little understanding that every person is not biologically interchangeable and will not react the same way to vaccines, just as they won't all react the same way to other drugs. Please show me where anyone in this thread seems to have "little understanding" that not all people will react the same way to vaccines? Not a single person has disputed that. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry about your husband. I hope he improves. Yes, there seems to be little understanding that every person is not biologically interchangeable and will not react the same way to vaccines, just as they won't all react the same way to other drugs. I would like to see one example of this idea that every person is biologically interchangeable and will react the same way to vaccines, unlike other drugs, either on this thread or by a reputable advocate of vaccine use. Edited July 10, 2015 by Susan Wise Bauer Deleted more name-calling. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Wow, Albeto, just wow!!!! You actually believe in the moon landing still??? That's the funniest thing I've heard in a looong time. You might be intelligent, but you have absolutely no logic. Plus totally gullible! :-D I should have realised that. But you will probably laugh at me (and that's ok), and you'll probably provide me with your junk science showing that man did in a fact land on the moon. All I can say is the laugh is on you and in a BIG way!!!!! The mind boggles....... Have fun with the comebacks of *conspiracy theories* thrown at me, as I'm proud to not be sooo brainwashed that I buy into everything society shoves down our throats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Wow, Albeto, just wow!!!! You actually believe in the moon landing still??? That's the funniest thing I've heard in a looong time. You might be intelligent, but you have absolutely no logic. Plus totally gullible! :-D I should have realised that. But you will probably laugh at me (and that's ok), and you'll probably provide me with your junk science showing that man did in a fact land on the moon. All I can say is the laugh is on you and in a BIG way!!!!! The mind boggles....... Have fun with the comebacks of *conspiracy theories* thrown at me, as I'm proud to not be sooo brainwashed that I buy into everything society shoves down our throats. I...um...errrr...whut??? 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I would like to see one example of this idea that every person is biologically interchangeable and will react the same way to vaccines, unlike other drugs, either on this thread or by a reputable advocate of vaccine use. Otherwise I call shenanigans, yet another one of the paranoid variety. ^^^This. Strangely enough, even though my brother has a severe, life threatening allergy to penicillin, no one in my family has felt the need to concoct conspiracy theories about the drug or claim it has not saved millions of lives. Go figure. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 ^^^This. Strangely enough, even though my brother has a severe, life threatening allergy to penicillin, no one in my family has felt the need to concoct conspiracy theories about the drug or claim it has not saved millions of lives. Go figure. Maybe, that's because it's actually accepted by the medical world to trigger issues with some people. We don't have people being forced this onto them when it's known to be problematic etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 I...um...errrr...whut??? Just like I predict you will find it hilarious that I don't believe in the moon landing....... so too do I find it an absolutely *crack- up* that some still do believe this without ever questioning all the problems involved.. Hey, each for there own, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Wow, Albeto, just wow!!!! You actually believe in the moon landing still??? That's the funniest thing I've heard in a looong time. You might be intelligent, but you have absolutely no logic. Plus totally gullible! :-D I should have realised that. But you will probably laugh at me (and that's ok), and you'll probably provide me with your junk science showing that man did in a fact land on the moon. All I can say is the laugh is on you and in a BIG way!!!!! The mind boggles....... Have fun with the comebacks of *conspiracy theories* thrown at me, as I'm proud to not be sooo brainwashed that I buy into everything society shoves down our throats. Did I eat some bad mushrooms?? Stars and garters, I did not know people outside of TLC specials did not believe in the moon landing. Even my Fox loving, conspiracy theory addict Dad believes in the moon landing. Do you teach your children that it was a a hoax?? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Just like I predict you will find it hilarious that I don't believe in the moon landing....... so too do I find it an absolutely *crack- up* that some still do believe this without ever questioning all the problems involved.. Hey, each for there own, right? Are you trying to make a point that I'm totally failing to grasp, or are you serious? This thread is getting very interesting. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Did I eat some bad mushrooms?? Stars and garters, I did not know people outside of TLC specials did not believe in the moon landing. Even my Fox loving, conspiracy theory addict Dad believes in the moon landing. Do you teach your children that it was a a hoax?? Nope, just to think for themselves. Just like evolution, I let them to look at both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 We were part of a little homeschooling co-op at one point in which families would do presentations on science topics. One family did a presentation about the moon. The parts by the kids were great--they talked about lunar phases and a recent eclipse. Then the mom got up and went into a spiel about how the lunar landing was made up. Blew my mind. I'd heard there were people out there who believed it was all a government charade but I didn't know that they were in our little homeschooling community! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Are you trying to make a point that I'm totally failing to grasp, or are you serious? This thread is getting very interesting. Might open a new one. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Might open a new one. ;-) Done did it. Still a bit flabbergasted, tbh. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 We were part of a little homeschooling co-op at one point in which families would do presentations on science topics. One family did a presentation about the moon. The parts by the kids were great--they talked about lunar phases and a recent eclipse. Then the mom got up and went into a spiel about how the lunar landing was made up. Blew my mind. I'd heard there were people out there who believed it was all a government charade but I didn't know that they were in our little homeschooling community! Yes, there are awake people out there, not surprising at all. I can't think of a family in my circle of friends- Americans included that still believe in a moon landing. ;-) ;-) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Done did it. Still a bit flabbergasted, tbh. Thanks :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Maybe, that's because it's actually accepted by the medical world to trigger issues with some people. We don't have people being forced this onto them when it's known to be problematic etc... Who is being forced vaccines against their will? Who holds them down? Who holds a gun against their heads? Who stands by with the town sheriff ready to haul them off to prison for not vaccinating? You do realize we have an increase of preventable diseases precisely because parents are opting not to vaccinate their children. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well. That got interesting. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Nope, just to think for themselves. Just like evolution, I let them to look at both sides. Except there isn't two sides to the moon landing. Or evolution. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I would like to see one example of this idea that every person is biologically interchangeable and will react the same way to vaccines, unlike other drugs, either on this thread or by a reputable advocate of vaccine use. Otherwise I call shenanigans, yet another one of the paranoid variety. The one-size-fits-all vaccine schedule demanded under penalty of being expelled from the medical practice is enough evidence for most thinking parents. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctors-fire-patients-who-refuse-vaccines-for-their-children-ethical/ http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/02/04/383796532/pediatricians-pressured-to-drop-parents-who-wont-vaccinate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I think they mean the labelling of the condition when there's no other physical signs of abuse. I'm no expert, but shaking a baby back and forth would also result of damage to the neck, I would think. You are incorrect. Any violent whipping of the head and neck back and forth can cause the brain to strike the inside of the skull resulting in brain injury. We learned this in trauma classes. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Yes, there seems to be little understanding that every person is not biologically interchangeable and will not react the same way to vaccines, just as they won't all react the same way to other drugs. I would like to see one example of this idea that every person is biologically interchangeable and will react the same way to vaccines, unlike other drugs, either on this thread or by a reputable advocate of vaccine use. Otherwise I call shenanigans, yet another one of the paranoid variety. The one-size-fits-all vaccine schedule demanded under penalty of being expelled from the medical practice is enough evidence for most thinking parents. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctors-fire-patients-who-refuse-vaccines-for-their-children-ethical/ http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/02/04/383796532/pediatricians-pressured-to-drop-parents-who-wont-vaccinate In what way do you see this as an example of someone supporting the idea that every person is biologically interchangeable and will react the same way to vaccines, unlike other drugs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 You are incorrect. Any violent whipping of the head and neck back and forth can cause the brain to strike the inside of the skull resulting in brain injury. We learned this in trauma classes. Do you think this can happen without neck injury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Do you think this can happen without neck injury? Yes it can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 I've got to run.... but just want to say- Thanks so much Albeto for sticking to the subject on this thread. It shows real control. I was expecting a lashing here. You can still let me have it, as there is a new thread on the moon landing. :-D Or you may think I'm a "too bigger idiot" to bother with. ;-) If so, I understand. I really do! I'm not that *loopy* to not see how crazy it all sounds. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I've got to run.... but just want to say- Thanks so much Albeto for sticking to the subject on this thread. It shows real control. I was expecting a lashing here. You can still let me have it, as there is a new thread on the moon landing. :-D Or you may think I'm a too bigger idiot to bother with. ;-) If so, I understand. I really do! I'm not that *loopy* to not see how crazy it all sounds. ;-) I've no interest in giving you or anyone a lashing. I've an interest in seeing home education respected and promoted as a viable option for education in my country, and bizarre ideas that serve as the foundation for a child's education doesn't support that. Do what you want in your home, but when you promote garbage-as-information in public, people will question it. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Yes, there are awake people out there, not surprising at all. I can't think of a family in my circle of friends- Americans included that still believe in a moon landing. Are you self-selecting your friends at "there was no moon landing" websites? Do you, perhaps, have very few friends? Is it possible that they're all just humoring you because it's easier? I try to keep an open mind too, but not so open all my brains fall out. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 According to the film makers, shaken baby syndrome is a myth and is based on junk science. Why are you trying to promote absurd and dangerous conspiracy theories on an education forum? :huh: Wow, Albeto, just wow!!!! You actually believe in the moon landing still??? That's the funniest thing I've heard in a looong time. You might be intelligent, but you have absolutely no logic. Plus totally gullible! :-D I should have realised that. But you will probably laugh at me (and that's ok), and you'll probably provide me with your junk science showing that man did in a fact land on the moon. All I can say is the laugh is on you and in a BIG way!!!!! The mind boggles....... Have fun with the comebacks of *conspiracy theories* thrown at me, as I'm proud to not be sooo brainwashed that I buy into everything society shoves down our throats. Did I eat some bad mushrooms?? Stars and garters, I did not know people outside of TLC specials did not believe in the moon landing. Even my Fox loving, conspiracy theory addict Dad believes in the moon landing. Do you teach your children that it was a a hoax?? Whoa. I had my thoughts about Jasperstone, from prior vax threads, but now any doubt is erased. I know what I'm seeing here. Wake up, Hive, if anyone is yet sleeping (which I doubt). This dance needs to end now. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeacherZee Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Maybe, that's because it's actually accepted by the medical world to trigger issues with some people. We don't have people being forced this onto them when it's known to be problematic etc... But the medical community knows and accepts that there are people who have adverse reactions to vaccines. That's why we have medical exceptions and why my doctors recommend that I do not get vaccinated against the flu or TBE. They think that for me the risks of the vaccine are higher than the risks of the illness. This is a discussion we have with regular intervals (especially with regards to the flu) taking into account the health of those around me as well as my own health. However so far the decision has been that rather than vaccinate they would rather prescribe Tamiful to me as well as those around me as soon as the flu is even a remote possibility. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Whoa. I had my thoughts about Jasperstone, from prior vax threads, but now any doubt is erased. I know what I'm seeing here. Wake up, Hive, if anyone is yet sleeping (which I doubt). This dance needs to end now. Are you saying you actually believe in that whole crazy moon landing thing??? :svengo: . . . . . I have to admit that I had to read that post a few times to see if there was a ;) in there somewhere that I missed. But apparently that is her story and she is sticking to it. I am kind of excited about this, though, because I have never known a single person who believed the story that the moon landing was faked. And now I do. And it feels pretty weird. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Wise Bauer Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 And we are finished now. Move on, folks. SWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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