What opportunities cost $ at college? travel abroad, etc, advantages of low cost schools

[katilac]

If a student goes to a lower cost college, there could be more money available for other opportunities. We are trying to make a list of these potential opportunities so we can weigh them against the advantages of the higher cost college. Such as: 

 

*Travel abroad 

 

*The ability to not work, to work fewer hours, or to work at the lower paying but more interesting job 

 

*Being able to take on non-paying internships 

 

*Summer school is more of an option 

 

*There could be some college money leftover that would pay the costs of getting established after graduation 

 

What else? Any really specific ideas besides travel abroad? 

 

[8filltheheart]

My ds is making a lot of $$ this summer working on research at a state flagship u vs. a high cost one.  Our local non-ranked regional university has lots of scholarship money for students majoring in foreign languages for their study abroad program.  Our oldest was hired by a professor to work on his research and earned quite a bit of $$.  Honestly, there are lots of pluses. 

 

I think the better question is does going to the lower rank/less expensive school actually have a negative impact on the quality of education and employability. Does it offer the courses needed? (If yes, then....) Are students being recruited for employment?  That is really the only affirmation you really need.

[katilac]

My ds is making a lot of $$ this summer working on research at a state flagship u vs. a high cost one.  Our local non-ranked regional university has lots of scholarship money for students majoring in foreign languages for their study abroad program.  Our oldest was hired by a professor to work on his research and earned quite a bit of $$.  Honestly, there are lots of pluses. 

 

I think the better question is does going to the lower rank/less expensive school actually have a negative impact on the quality of education and employability. Does it offer the courses needed? (If yes, then....) Are students being recruited for employment?  That is really the only affirmation you really need.

 

Well, she's quite undecided on future major. 

 

That gives a larger/costlier school an advantage, simply bc there is more to choose from and change to. 

 

It also makes it harder to judge how much students are recruited, when you can't really narrow it down to a major or even a department. 

 

All schools in question would give a good education. All schools in question have internship opportunities and what looks like a decent number of companies recruiting, but tough to tell sometimes which students are most likely to benefit. 

 

We are definitely doing more digging on internships across departments and so on, but a list of solid opportunities the saved money could be spent on would be helpful also. 

[Annie G]

Less chance that when you change your major halfway through your sophomore year that your parents will have a heart attack. (Because adding a semester isn't going to cost an arm and a leg.)

 

Dh changed his major three times.  His parents almost exploded and his fiancee broke it off and married his best friend...who didn't change his major even once.g

 

 

[8filltheheart]

Well, I haven't found a correlation between cost and more available majors.  Actually, the reverse is often true.  Small private schools which cost a lot more often have very limited course offerings.   Conversely, being larger doesn't necessarily mean still having a match.  For example, our state flagship does not offer a Russian major, but the small local regional university does.   

 

I think a more financially sound decision based on your second post might be to weigh the pros and cons of a gap year which would allow time to discern future objectives.   Lots of people post extremely positive stories about gap years for their young adults.

[katilac]

Well, I haven't found a correlation between cost and more available majors.  Actually, the reverse is often true.  Small private schools which cost a lot more often have very limited course offerings.   Conversely, being larger doesn't necessarily mean still having a match.  For example, our state flagship does not offer a Russian major, but the small local regional university does.   

 

I think a more financially sound decision based on your second post might be to weigh the pros and cons of a gap year which would allow time to discern future objectives.   Lots of people post extremely positive stories about gap years for their young adults.

 

These are particular schools, I agree that there's not a general correlation. A lot of the financial difference is due to better merit aid at certain schools, not starting cost. 

 

This is just a fun way of reviewing yet another factor in choosing schools. She definitely has no interest in a gap year! 

[katilac]

Less chance that when you change your major halfway through your sophomore year that your parents will have a heart attack. (Because adding a semester isn't going to cost an arm and a leg.)

 

Dh changed his major three times.  His parents almost exploded and his fiancee broke it off and married his best friend...who didn't change his major even once.g

 

LOL! That's one way to look at it. 

 

Although it sounds like it worked out pretty well for you . . . 

[Gwen in VA]

A different viewpoint --

 

A wealthier school has more money available -- for summer internship grants, for work-study, for research funding, for merit aid, etc.

 

Our experience has been that the wealthier the school the more money is available for students who are motivated and doing interesting things.

 

YMMV -- this is highly school-dependent, but you certainly cannot say that the cheaper the tuition the cheaper everything else is.

 

[katilac]

A different viewpoint --

 

A wealthier school has more money available -- for summer internship grants, for work-study, for research funding, for merit aid, etc.

 

Our experience has been that the wealthier the school the more money is available for students who are motivated and doing interesting things.

 

YMMV -- this is highly school-dependent, but you certainly cannot say that the cheaper the tuition the cheaper everything else is.

 

That's a great point, thank you! 

[Hoggirl]

We had a certain amount of money that we were willing and able to spend on ds's college education. The Pile. The Pile would allow attendance at any undergraduate university. We do not qualify for need-based aid so were full-freight at schools where he either did not receive merit money or it was unavailable (because no merit money is offered to anyone). We definitely talked about many of the benefits you listed of a lower-cost school. An additional consideration not on your list was our willingness to pay for all/part of graduate school depending on how much of The Pile he used up. Some fields need graduate school more than others. If he did not go to graduate school, any leftover money could have been used for *reasonable* costs of getting established after graduation (car, down payment on a house, furniture, etc. - not a huge trip/party in Vegas!).

 

Travel abroad is a great example. We had told ds if he chose a less expensive school, we would cover some summer travel abroad for him. If he chose full-freight, he would get his one quarter abroad on us but that was it. He chose a full-pay, expensive school. Of course, in autumn quarter, we received a text from him talking about a three-week summer study abroad seminar he wanted to apply for. This is where Gwen's comment about wealth of the institution comes in. The three-week course has a mere cost of $600. He will earn two units of credit. It is heavily subsidized by the university, and that $600 covers course work, tours, room, and all but about three meals. So, we relented a bit on our "only one quarter abroad" policy because it was so affordable (and because it is for credit). It is also only available for a student to participate in one summer out of their collegiate career. However, we stuck to our guns otherwise, and he is paying for his $1,400 airfare and for any other incidentals out of his own funds. A local mom friend shared details in a FB post with her ds about a five-week summer program out of our local (much less expensive to attend) state flagship where the ds attends listed as costing $6,000 without airfare and with no meals. Gwen is absolutely correct about a wealthier school having more money available.

 

Ds has recently changed his major, and I simply reiterated our four years only policy as that will use up the entirety of The Pile. There will be no relenting on that because The Pile will be gone.

 

So, I think it is important to consider and discuss all of the factors you listed. One other might be travel distance/cost to come home. We flew ds home for Thanksgiving this, his freshman, year but we likely won't be doing that going forward. We talked about all these issues, but we left the decision up to ds as to how he wanted to spend The Pile.

[8filltheheart]

But Cynthia, if a student is paying $25,000/ yr to attend vs $60,000 to attend, even $10,000 vs $600 does not realistically add up to increased opportunity.

[Hoggirl]

But Cynthia, if a student is paying $25,000/ yr to attend vs $60,000 to attend, even $10,000 vs $600 does not realistically add up to increased opportunity.

Absolutely true! And that should be discussed as well. Ds gave up any opportunity he had for us to fund graduate school by choosing the school he did. But, Gwen's point is well-taken about institutional wealth. And there are likely cases in between the two extremes where one would hit a break-even point.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I think I understand the topic - I am chai deprived and my brain isn't functioning properly  - so I offer this anecdote from our experience:

 

DS was accepted to the state flagship with full tuition, our cost for the year was going to be 3X.  His merit award did not cover study abroad.  Should he desire to go abroad (which he does) we would have had to pay everything out of pocket, unless DS qualified for a rare study abroad scholarship.  According to the Study Abroad office, the average cost of one semester of Study Abroad was going to be 5.5X. So, for DS, one semester abroad was going to increase our cost by almost 200%.  We told DS if he chose the state flagship his study abroad opportunity would depend on finding outside funding.

 

He also applied to a private LAC.  Our out of pocket expenses per year are about 1X.  Study Abroad is covered by his merit and financial aid.  Our out of pocket expenses will be minimal and remain about 1X.  Attending the LAC is much more affordable for us and gives DS the opportunity to study abroad without the added pressure of searching and applying for scholarships or grants.

[Annie G]

I think I understand the topic - I am chai deprived and my brain isn't functioning properly  - so I offer this anecdote from our experience:

 

DS was accepted to the state flagship with full tuition, our cost for the year was going to be 3X.  His merit award did not cover study abroad.  Should he desire to go abroad (which he does) we would have had to pay everything out of pocket, unless DS qualified for a rare study abroad scholarship.  According to the Study Abroad office, the average cost of one semester of Study Abroad was going to be 5.5X. So, for DS, one semester abroad was going to increase our cost by almost 200%.  We told DS if he chose the state flagship his study abroad opportunity would depend on finding outside funding.

 

He also applied to a private LAC.  Our out of pocket expenses per year are about 1X.  Study Abroad is covered by his merit and financial aid.  Our out of pocket expenses will be minimal and remain about 1X.  Attending the LAC is much more affordable for us and gives DS the opportunity to study abroad without the added pressure of searching and applying for scholarships or grants.

 

Dd attends a private LAC and is studying abroad. Her financial aid can be used for that, and her school also gives students $2k to use for an academic pursuit of their choice so she's using hers for this adventure. So yeah, the financial aid and Augie Choice covers her tuition, but the costs there for her living expenses are more than what they cost at her school and she's not able to work while abroad.  When she was at school she wasn't doing a lot of traveling- she was studying and doing things on campus.

 

In Japan, they are doing tons of stuff- which we want her to do- but it is expensive. Most places they visit are free with a student card but train travel is costly and even the cost of bus travel was a shock to her (where she goes to school students can use the city bus system at no charge).    

 

Having said that, this has been a great experience and she doesn't regret spending all her savings to make it happen.

 

ETA: I realize the out of pocket costs are the same but it's an expense that we weren't totally prepared for because the school blurb said that the Augie Choice money 'usually' covers the out of pocket costs.  I think they meant for study abroad trips that happen during spring break rather than a semester abroad.    

[Gwen in VA]

Example of wealthier school going the extra mile to help students take advantage of amazing opportunities --

 

1) After freshman year, dd1 had the opportunity to do an amazing internship in Amsterdam. Dh and I are NOT funding summer junkets -- we consider summer to be a time to EARN money not spend it -- so dd1 had to figure out how to make this unpaid internship happen. Lo and behold -- her wealthy college has a grant program for students who want to do interesting internships over the summer. Hejr apartment was over $2000 per month, so she did end up paying a thousand or so to make ends meet, but the grant covered airfare and most of her living expenses.

 

2) Dd1 then had the opportunity to have an internship at the Smithsonian. She is the only undergrad in this particular program's history, so this was a BIG deal, but dh and I don't fund summer junkets, do dd1 had to figure out how to make this unpaid internship happen. The college's grant program came to the rescue AGAIN and fully covered all of the expenses of this amazing opportunity.

 

3) Ds1 did research after every summer, fully funded through grant program at the college. (He actually EARNED money!)

 

Dd1 is now at a prestigious grad program that probably wouldn 't have accepted her without those amazing internships. We really owe a huge debt of gratitude to that donor that made those grants possible!

 

Dd2 attended a "public Ivy" school with limited finances. Yes, the Scholars get research funding, but pretty much no one else does. Certainly there are no grants to apply for if you have the opportunity to pursue an amazing internship! You have to fund it on your own.

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

Example of wealthier school going the extra mile to help students take advantage of amazing opportunities --

 

 

3) Ds1 did research after every summer, fully funded through grant program at the college. (He actually EARNED money!)

 

 

 

I don't know about studying abroad (my kids haven't wanted to until our current high schooler). but #3 is not unusual.  Our oldest attended a small tech university and worked paid research which included traveling internationally for presenting his paper at a professional symposium.  Our current college student is making a lot this summer working for a professor and is also receiving a housing stipend.

[Gwen in VA]

I agree #3 is not unusual, but the "public Ivy" dd2 attends only gives research funding to a select few students, so i figured that research funding in the humanities for three summers plus occasional costs during the school years was worth noting. Not every college  -- not even every really top college -- does it.

[J-rap]

A different viewpoint --

 

A wealthier school has more money available -- for summer internship grants, for work-study, for research funding, for merit aid, etc.

 

Our experience has been that the wealthier the school the more money is available for students who are motivated and doing interesting things.

 

YMMV -- this is highly school-dependent, but you certainly cannot say that the cheaper the tuition the cheaper everything else is.

 

This was definitely true for our daughter.  She received a very good merit scholarship, and then received a French scholarship on top of that for her study abroad in Senegal -- which actually paid for the entire semester, airfare, and living expenses.   Her university had the funding to do that.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

What about things like theatre tickets, concert tickets or recreation?

 

I lived near DC for my undergrad. I went to shows a couple times a semester. Some were purchased through my department in a program that discounted tickets for English majors. Some were student prices. Others were just shows I wanted to see.

 

For recreation I'm thinking of things like skiing or scuba diving or water sports that would require a rental (paddle board, surf board, kyacking). Some schools have great recreation departments and this would be something of real interest. But costs of trips or rentals may still add up.

[8filltheheart]

 

Are top schools really the only ones to provide many of the things discussed? I know UA has great equipment rental rates for students (UGs are automatically members.) http://urec.ua.edu/orrental.cfm

 

Most of the school's we have investigated for Russian offer scholarships for study abroad.

[katilac]

What about things like theatre tickets, concert tickets or recreation?

 

Theatre tickets are a biggish line item in her budget! 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Are top schools really the only ones to provide many of the things discussed? I know UA has great equipment rental rates for students (UGs are automatically members.) http://urec.ua.edu/orrental.cfm

 

Most of the school's we have investigated for Russian offer scholarships for study abroad.

I don't know if you can make a statement that one type of school offers it but another type doesn't.

 

In the case of the theatre tickets the discount prices were because a donor had made a specific donation for English majors. My undergrad didn't do gear rental, but I noticed that WVU did have grea outdoor programming.

 

I was more thinking of things that I spent money on.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

When I think of where the money I earned during college went (since I chose the more expensive school option) I ended up paying for my social and recreational activities (that might include tickets for on and off campus events, formal clothing for dances, trips or sports related expenses), any off campus eating, any summer or spring break vacations, etc.

 

What I gave up were owning a car, non-paying internships and research projects during summers, travel abroad, junior year abroad programs that would be unfunded by scholarship and financial aid and similar programs.  I gave these up because they were cost prohibitive in light of my tuition and because I needed to earn money during the summer to fund costs beyond tuition during the school year.

 

While I am sorry that I lost out on some internship opportunities--in the end I wouldn't change my decision about where I went to school or what I gave up.

 

Do note that you really need to look at what the bottom line on tuition will be not just the sticker price of a school.  Sometimes the scholarship and aid money a private school that seems more expensive can give will make it lower cost than a public school with a smaller sticker price.  I think this can often be true for families who fall out side of the range of most need based aid but inside the range of a grant or merit scholarship.

 

My kids are looking at extra costs that would include participation in intramural or club sports (having to purchase their own equipment or pay for lessons), outdoor recreation programs, owing a car, personal travel, lost income if pursuing an unpaid internship, fees for membership in on-campus clubs or participation in their activites, social activities (concerts, movies, dances, off campus eating, keeping the mini-fridge stocked) and having the electronic devices or clothes of their choice (beyond what mom & dad would provide or assist with).

[TechWife]

The university my son will be going to has student led outdoor trips - camping, kayaking, rafting, skiing, climbing, etc. They pay anywhere from $10-30 for the day (covers lift tickets, park entry fees, transportation, food). They can rent equipment from the rec dept if they need it (tents, sleeping bags, camp stoves, kayaks, etc.). The university doesn't have skis, but the resorts give good rental discounts to the students who go up on weekdays or Thursday nights. 

 

There are usually a fewl trips to pick from each weekend.

[Gwen in VA]

I think the costs associated with each college is a YMMV type of thing.

 

The issues brought up in this discussion at least give people an idea of the things to look for -- does the Uni

1) Have funding available for summer (or term) research?

2) Have funding available for interesting off-campus summer projects / internships? (I know of a student who received funding to hike the Appalachian Trail!)

3) Have perks like free use of public transportation (available at one Uni I know of)

4) Have free / discounted activity options available -- tickets, camping gear, etc.

5) Have fairly low-cost trips (like when the chorale goes to Japan or the band goes to Egypt)

 

My experience is that expensive schools have more funding available so IF THE TUITION COST IS THE SAME, the expensive schools actually "cost" less, but obviously this varies wildly -- not only from school to school but also student to student since different students will be interested in taking advantage of different resources/activities. (My son didn't care about the cost of the band trip; my dd didn't care if the camping equipment was free or not!)

 

Also, just to add to the uncertainty, you don't always know what resources your student will take advantage of. I never dreamed that dd1 would have an internship in Amsterdam after her freshman year. I never thought that ds1 would never have an internship but only do on-campus research each summer! So you never know.....

 

BTW, these types of "freebies" can make a HUGE difference in grad school -- one top Uni offers FREE health insurance to all grad students in addition to the already-generous stipends!