JumpyTheFrog Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 OP, how was his sleep before the move? It sounds like the insomnia didn't start until after. If that is the case, it is probably being caused by something from the move and/or job itself. Another possibility is something environmental (such as mold) that wasn't at your old house or his old job, but since he sleeps better when he doesn't have work the next day, I'm inclined to assume it's the job. I started a thread a few months ago about people who seem to feel stress as physical symptoms rather than emotions. I seem to be one of those people who tends to be pretty even-tempered because for whatever reason, my stress tends to bypass the emotional center and go straight to causing health problems. So while I might "feel fine" about xyz, the sudden wave of fatigue after xyz occurs shows that I'm not really okay with it. (Sometimes I feel like I need gauges on my arm or something. Being hungry often manifests itself as fatigue as well.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Glad to see he's on Celexa. I don't know much about in particular but the first thing I thought of when I read this was that he needs some sort of SSRI (ie modern and non-"tranquilizer" type anti-anxiety med). Many people find that when they go on them it brings them back to normal, without any of the sort of "drunken" side effects. I am not a fan of Ativan etc as a sole treatment of anxiety. (Used to be a mental health counselor). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 He eats a pretty decent diet of which the majority is fresh, organic, and home-cooked. He has zero allergies except to the contrast dye in ct scans. We don't eat a lot of red meat and we are vegans for about half the year, including every Wednesday and Friday in addition to longer periods that span several sustained weeks in duration. He really needs to go have his B12 levels tested, along with iron level (ferritin) and folate. Also Vitamin D. Vegetarians have a stronger chance of being deficient. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Thank you for that encouragement! My culture is very natural (I live in Oregon with a bunch of EO crazies/pharma is the devil) and there is no way I would even tell peers about taking these meds. I would never hear the end of it and would def. be looked down upon. I mean me taking Benadryl to sleep was like a huge mommy war thing, and I lost my crunchy care over it. Ha! I just kind of stopped sharing with others my struggles after that. My husband is supportive and that's what matters most anyway. I've gone for years and years suffering trying everything with no true help, and even when I told other this int he past it was the same thing: I wasn't trying hard enough, doing it right, etc. Ugh. I had an appointment with a counselor once who hooked me up to this machine that tested my relaxing and I aced it. Counselor said she'd never seen someone so relaxed. I've had 5 natural births people! I know how to do progressive relaxation. Anyways, just an example of something I've tried and still can't sleep. I'm so glad that your husband is understanding and supportive - that can mean the world! I live in New Mexico - probably not as "extreme" in this way as Oregon, but still very crunchy, very anti-modern-medicine, very Bach flower remedies and homeopathy and accupuncture and whatnot (I have a friend who calls this the land of the crystal-gazers). That's all fine and good for those who want it, but some people take it to such an extreme that it's like it's your fault if you have anything less than perfect health because obviously you aren't doing (insert alternative health fad of the week here). So, yeah, I understand your situation! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IfIOnly Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm so glad that your husband is understanding and supportive - that can mean the world! I live in New Mexico - probably not as "extreme" in this way as Oregon, but still very crunchy, very anti-modern-medicine, very Bach flower remedies and homeopathy and accupuncture and whatnot (I have a friend who calls this the land of the crystal-gazers). That's all fine and good for those who want it, but some people take it to such an extreme that it's like it's your fault if you have anything less than perfect health because obviously you aren't doing (insert alternative health fad of the week here). So, yeah, I understand your situation! Yes! LOL. For some reason, it would have never occurred to me that NM was so crunchy. Interesting and I learned something new! The thing is I took the Benadryl when pregnant, so that was like the unpardonable sin or something. :P I also give my kids tylenol and ibuprofen to feel better when they're experiencing teething pain and obviously ill and hurting. Oh the horror! Lots of lectures about that one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renai Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm so glad that your husband is understanding and supportive - that can mean the world! I live in New Mexico - probably not as "extreme" in this way as Oregon, but still very crunchy, very anti-modern-medicine, very Bach flow Totally ot, but so do I! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Yes! LOL. For some reason, it would have never occurred to me that NM was so crunchy. Interesting and I learned something new!Yeah, it is kind of unexpected, isn't it? I can't speak for small towns and rural areas, but Albuquerque (where I live) is definitely big on alternative medicine and other crunchy pursuits. :) I think Santa Fe is too. The thing is I took the Benadryl when pregnant, so that was like the unpardonable sin or something. :P I also give my kids tylenol and ibuprofen to feel better when they're experiencing teething pain and obviously ill and hurting. Oh the horror! Lots of lectures about that one.Yep, you would have gotten those same lectures here! As part of a series of lectures about essential oils, flower remedies, kinesiology, homeopathy, the dangers of "night vapors", aligning your chakras, and cleansing your colon. If one more person who has never had a migraine tells me to get craniosacral therapy for my migraines, I am pretty sure I'm going to have a meltdown of some sort. Whether it's the kicking, screaming tantrum kind of meltdown or the collapsing into tears kind, I can't predict. ETA: And I don't mean to sound negative about all things crunchy. I'm a huge fan of organic eggs and produce, grass-fed beef and dairy products, etc. I actually kind of like the "earth mother" fashion, though it isn't my style. I love baby wearing and wish I had known about it when my dd was little. I just always held/carried her - my arms did get pretty strong, though! I even got really into alternative medicine for awhile. A long while. I gave it an honest go, really believed in it. But I am now done with it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Totally ot, but so do I! Oh, how cool! What part of the state are you in? We can take this to PM if you don't want to say publicly. But I'd love to chat with you more! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renai Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Yeah, it is kind of unexpected, isn't it? I can't speak for small towns and rural areas, but Albuquerque (where I live) is definitely big on alternative medicine and other crunchy pursuits. :) I think Santa Fe is too. Yep, you would have gotten those same lectures here! As part of a series of lectures about essential oils, flower remedies, kinesiology, homeopathy, the dangers of "night vapors", aligning your chakras, and cleansing your colon. If one more person who has never had a migraine tells me to get craniosacral therapy for my migraines, I am pretty sure I'm going to have a meltdown of some sort. Whether it's the kicking, screaming tantrum kind of meltdown or the collapsing into tears kind, I can't predict. Santa Fe - to the max. But, there is a good mix of people that balances it very well. You will find support for the super-crunchy, the-doctor-is-god, and everything else in between. I will say though, that calcium and magnesium supplements have reduced my incidents of migraines a lot... :leaving: . OP, I'm glad things may be looking up for you (plural, not singular, you). I do feel for you, as my dh has always had depressive episodes (undiagnosed) that have progressively gotten worse, and he has not sought help in all these years. He knows he needs it, but won't do anything about it. It is hard. I've often felt like bolt, but I actually like the perspective she's taken better than what I was considering. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Santa Fe - to the max.Yeah, I thought so. I've only visited, not lived there, so I wasn't sure. I love Santa Fe! My dd is a budding artist, so you can imagine where she would prefer to live. I will say though, that calcium and magnesium supplements have reduced my incidents of migraines a lot... :leaving: .No, see, I appreciate that! First of all, because it's based on your actual experience with the same problem. And secondly, because it isn't woo. The human body has a very real need for calcium and magnesium, so I can believe that -- it has a basis in, you know, actual reality. :) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 OP, sorry I got off on such a tangent. I will be quiet now. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 A small protein snack (like a hard-boiled egg) before bed-time can sometimes help. A few dates before bed can help because they contain the precursor to serotonin, which converts to melatonin. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TianXiaXueXiao Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Someone up thread asked if dh had insomnia before the move out of state and the answer is "no." In fact, he didn't ever have insomnia until the night before his interview for the job he now has, which I think it significant. He is aware of the current thought on maintaining proper sleep hygiene. He knows the dos and don'ts but he hasn't exactly followed them. I don't nag him about it because it will turn into an argument. He would like for me to be the one to set the tone for the whole home and enact the sleep hygiene practices that he needs for everyone across the board. I am admittedly a night owl and he wants me to get the kids (who are night owls as well) to bed earlier and for me to go to bed at 10 pm to make it easier for him to do so. I think he sees my resistance to complying with this request as an affront to him and as antagonistic to his needs. This is tricky for me. I have a lot of work that I get done after the kids are sleeping (cleaning, grading, prepping, writing, etc.) and I can't afford to lose my productive night time hours to accomplish these goals. I just don't go to bed by 10 pm. The earliest I go to bed would be about 11:30 or midnight. I have always been this way even when I had to be up by 5:30 am for work. That is how my clock works. This is the crux of our problem with regard to this issue. He sees my inability (unwillingness?) to conform to his wishes as the reason why he cannot implement proper sleep habits in his own life. My dad was a cop. He worked all kinds of crazy shifts. It was never a requirement in our household growing up that we went to bed when my father had to go to bed. The requirement was that we not make a peep so he could sleep. In his childhood home, his dad went to bed way earlier than his mom and it is still that way to this day. So, I am not sure who he is looking to as a model for the kind of set up he desires. I make sure the house is still and quiet for dh when he goes to bed. If the kids are still up, they are in their room being quiet. I know I could do more to make this easier for him, but I do think his request is unfair. How much responsibility do I need to accept for his inability to overcome insomnia? Please be kind if you reply to this question. I really have the best intentions for helping my husband, but I am not sure if he is being reasonable or unreasonable. I know I can do things somewhat differently, but I am resistant to following his desires as stated. Thanks again! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Someone up thread asked if dh had insomnia before the move out of state and the answer is "no." In fact, he didn't ever have insomnia until the night before his interview for the job he now has, which I think it significant. He is aware of the current thought on maintaining proper sleep hygiene. He knows the dos and don'ts but he hasn't exactly followed them. I don't nag him about it because it will turn into an argument. He would like for me to be the one to set the tone for the whole home and enact the sleep hygiene practices that he needs for everyone across the board. I am admittedly a night owl and he wants me to get the kids (who are night owls as well) to bed earlier and for me to go to bed at 10 pm to make it easier for him to do so. I think he sees my resistance to complying with this request as an affront to him and as antagonistic to his needs. This is tricky for me. I have a lot of work that I get done after the kids are sleeping (cleaning, grading, prepping, writing, etc.) and I can't afford to lose my productive night time hours to accomplish these goals. I just don't go to bed by 10 pm. The earliest I go to bed would be about 11:30 or midnight. I have always been this way even when I had to be up by 5:30 am for work. That is how my clock works. This is the crux of our problem with regard to this issue. He sees my inability (unwillingness?) to conform to his wishes as the reason why he cannot implement proper sleep habits in his own life. My dad was a cop. He worked all kinds of crazy shifts. It was never a requirement in our household growing up that we went to bed when my father had to go to bed. The requirement was that we not make a peep so he could sleep. In his childhood home, his dad went to bed way earlier than his mom and it is still that way to this day. So, I am not sure who he is looking to as a model for the kind of set up he desires. I make sure the house is still and quiet for dh when he goes to bed. If the kids are still up, they are in their room being quiet. I know I could do more to make this easier for him, but I do think his request is unfair. How much responsibility do I need to accept for his inability to overcome insomnia? Please be kind if you reply to this question. I really have the best intentions for helping my husband, but I am not sure if he is being reasonable or unreasonable. I know I can do things somewhat differently, but I am resistant to following his desires as stated. Thanks again! Counting on your help to be sure the house is quiet, kids in bed so he can go to sleep at 10pm - reasonable. Insisting that you also lay down to sleep at 10pm with him - unreasonable. He's supposed to just go to SLEEP, right? I don't understand how you quietly working in a separate room prevents him from sleeping. If you're up watching loud TV or vacuuming or something that would disturb him, maybe. But not quiet activity. In my (nonprofessional) opinion, his need for you to be right there and your day shut down by 10pm is more a symptom of his insecurities than a sure cure for them. (I'm assuming you are spending other periods of quality time together.) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Actually, men and women's body chemistry varies in a way that means men do need to go to bed earlier than women, and women need to sleep in later than men. *Generally speaking. I know there are plenty of women here who get up at 4am and claim to be ok about it. :scared: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I think reasonable accommodations involve quiet and pro-sleep household status after a certain time of night -- but not actually going to bed/sleep for the night with him, based on his schedule. It's an objectification for him to view your presence as a sleep aid. Maybe try doing some "lip service" with minor real changes to create some official household "quiet hours" -- it will give him some structure to build his bedtime around if you are doing some kind of tangible transition from regular/daytime mode to a nighttime-but-ok-to-be-awake mode. Probably this is merely re-labelling what you are already doing... But it can be meaningful re-labelling. Does it sound plausible for you to accomplish some if your goals by working-from-bed? Perhaps for the end if your evening routine? Does it sound plausible for you to briefly rest with him as he settles in before getting up for your desire to do evening work? Perhaps listen to an audiobook or podcast? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 One of the (many) reasons my husband and I have separate bedrooms is because he likes to go to bed 2-3 hours before I do. I think he goes to bed ridiculously early (usually 8:00 - 8:30!) but he also wakes up ridiculously early (4:00-5:00). He used to think that it was very important for me to adapt to his schedule. And I tried. I honestly did. And you know what happened? I was miserable! I was wide awake at 1am, and finally getting back to sleep when it was time to get up at 5am. I hated, hated, hated it. And I never could adjust. So I told him that my body just couldn't do that, and he was going to have to accept it. And he did. I agree with Seasider that your hubby has every right to request that the house be as quiet as possible during his preferred sleeping time. But asking you to adapt your sleeping time to fit his may very well be asking for the impossible, or at least be a recipe for your suffering. Also, if I misunderstood what you said before (I thought you were upset about him not sleeping in the same room with you) or sounded like I was lecturing you about that, I apologize. It's pretty clear that you are a very loving and concerned wife who wants to help her husband. But you have your limitations too, and you have a right to take care of yourself. :grouphug: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 OP, I would have an issue with my hubby suggesting that I needed to go to sleep with him before he would do what the therapist/doctors suggest. I suspect, though, that he's a night owl too. It's so hard to do what he needs to do! With that said, could you do that on the week-ends? This is the time he's struggling to go to bed on time, right? I wouldn't want to do that, but I might take melatonin (he may need to do that too...), suck it up and do it. I'd probably have to pray my way into it so I didn't do it with a lot ick attitude. It's just as hard for him to go to bed "early" on Friday and Saturday nights as it would be for me after all. I don't think you should be required to do it, but it seems like the kind thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Actually, men and women's body chemistry varies in a way that means men do need to go to bed earlier than women, and women need to sleep in later than men. For real? I need some references on this to send to him to prove that it's not just me! :D 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 For real? I need some references on this to send to him to prove that it's not just me! :D I don't have references for you, but it's about when our bodies produce serotonin and dopamine. Women are more likely to have serotonin deficiencies, and men dopamine deficiencies. There is some smart person, biochemical reason why. :p 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I don't have references for you, but it's about when our bodies produce serotonin and dopamine. Women are more likely to have serotonin deficiencies, and men dopamine deficiencies. There is some smart person, biochemical reason why. :p Neat - that gives me enough info to start googling. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Would he be able to work on just one or two things outside of drugs that might help him to feel more in control? He would have to understand that they are not quick fixes. The two that have made the most difference to me during periods of insomnia have been: walks and screens. Would a walk outside in the light at lunchtime be possible, and no screens for a couple of hours before bedtime? For me, the walk is more important than the screens, but people vary. The walk might help with resetting his body clock, by having him outside in the daylight. A doctor in Britain whom I heard talking on the radio but haven't been able to track down since, described a way of resetting for insomniacs that he used with success in his clinic and that might be worth a try. I used it with good effect: Think about the latest time that you have fallen asleep in the previous month. Say you finally fell asleep at 4am. The first night of your self-treatment, you deliberately stay up until 4 then go to bed and get up at your normal time (even if you only get one or two hours of sleep). The next night you stay up to 3.30, then the next night 3, each day getting up at your normal time. You keep moving your bedtime earlier until you stop sleeping through. At that point, play with the bedtime until it works for you. This method may not work if underlying anxiety is still present, but it's an option to think about. Best of luck. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Someone up thread asked if dh had insomnia before the move out of state and the answer is "no." In fact, he didn't ever have insomnia until the night before his interview for the job he now has, which I think it significant. He is aware of the current thought on maintaining proper sleep hygiene. He knows the dos and don'ts but he hasn't exactly followed them. I don't nag him about it because it will turn into an argument. He would like for me to be the one to set the tone for the whole home and enact the sleep hygiene practices that he needs for everyone across the board. I am admittedly a night owl and he wants me to get the kids (who are night owls as well) to bed earlier and for me to go to bed at 10 pm to make it easier for him to do so. I think he sees my resistance to complying with this request as an affront to him and as antagonistic to his needs. This is tricky for me. I have a lot of work that I get done after the kids are sleeping (cleaning, grading, prepping, writing, etc.) and I can't afford to lose my productive night time hours to accomplish these goals. I just don't go to bed by 10 pm. The earliest I go to bed would be about 11:30 or midnight. I have always been this way even when I had to be up by 5:30 am for work. That is how my clock works. This is the crux of our problem with regard to this issue. He sees my inability (unwillingness?) to conform to his wishes as the reason why he cannot implement proper sleep habits in his own life. My dad was a cop. He worked all kinds of crazy shifts. It was never a requirement in our household growing up that we went to bed when my father had to go to bed. The requirement was that we not make a peep so he could sleep. In his childhood home, his dad went to bed way earlier than his mom and it is still that way to this day. So, I am not sure who he is looking to as a model for the kind of set up he desires. I make sure the house is still and quiet for dh when he goes to bed. If the kids are still up, they are in their room being quiet. I know I could do more to make this easier for him, but I do think his request is unfair. How much responsibility do I need to accept for his inability to overcome insomnia? Please be kind if you reply to this question. I really have the best intentions for helping my husband, but I am not sure if he is being reasonable or unreasonable. I know I can do things somewhat differently, but I am resistant to following his desires as stated. Thanks again! :grouphug: You shouldn't bear any of the responsibility for his sleep issues. I would wonder if you are waking him up when you do go to bed. I cannot go to bed before dh because somehow he always manages to wake me up when he does get to bed, Dh generally goes to bed much earlier than I. I am an insomniac with some chronic pain issues and even with medication I toss and turn before falling asleep, since I am such a restless sleeper if he has to get up at 4 am then I sleep downstairs so he can sleep well. I agree that it is unfair for him to want you to conform to his requests for a set bedtime for the home. I know many people who would disagree with me but my dh does have a varied work schedule and so our house schedule is not exactly standard to what most people would think was ideal. Does he have any OCD tendencies with his anxiety? They can accompany one another and if he sees you as unwilling to comply with his rigid idea of what his sleep needs are and then have that impact his behavior then I think there might be more going on than just anxiety. The Celexa might help with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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