AnniePoo Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I are finishing up MUS gamma with my 3rd grader. We're on lesson 26 out of 30 and at this point, I think we both want to cry when the book comes out. She can handle the information, but it is overwhelming to her how long the worksheets take (especially review day) and I get frustrated with the amount of time I have to spend sitting with her, talking her through the problems or keeping her on task. I dread math time. I've been considering TT for some time. I'm even considering ordering TT4 today and having her do double lessons (of TT, not MUS) until the end of May when we're done for the year and then having her do one lessons per week during the summer. A lot of the material in TT4 has been covered in MUS gamma, but I wonder if she would benefit from having some easy math for a change to make it a more positive experience. Plus, some variety might be nice! I dunno. When do you stick things out and when do you throw in the towel? I thought we'd tough it out until at least pre-A, but the fact that *I* want to cry during math time due to it being complete drudgery makes me think it might be time for a switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriciaT Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 We had this with horizons and switched to teaching textbooks after she finished the level she was in. It made a dramatic difference in my daughter's outlook on math. Seriously, it went from being a frustrating part of the day to being her favourite subject. To me one of the delightful things about homeschooling is the freedom to change things around when something is not working. Do you think it is just the worksheet length/it being boring and taking too long, or is the material difficult for her? If it is just too long, maybe she could do just every other problem or something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnniePoo Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 I just clarified something after reading your reply. I'd have her do double TT, not TT plus MUS. At this point, I feel like we're making up excuse after excuse to not do the actual work ("let's work on math facts today!!!") and there is no way we could do the normal lesson plus extra. So I have a vote for switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'm a "Do what works, while it works, for as long as it works" sort of fellow, so if you guys are tired of MUS and its a become a drag, then its time to re-evaluate and decide if it is worth it to complete the book using the exact same method that you've been using, or if you want to change the way that you've using it and push through with a more efficient method. Whether you finish this level of not, feel free to not buy another level. I get frustrated with the amount of time I have to spend sitting with her, talking her through the problems or keeping her on task. I dread math time. As for this part ^, its my own personal conviction that parents should be sitting with (or near by) the child, talking them through problems and keeping them on task during math. Get a crossword puzzle, take up knitting, grade another childs work, listen to an audiobook, work on a math book of your own, do whatever. But do it near by the child. Just expect that it will be years before a kid can (and in my opinion, should) be left to do their work while the parent is elsewhere. As for how to complete MUS without loosing your mind, feel free to use your best judgement about what to cut out. Does she depend on those blocks for everything or can she do the problems without them? Things might go faster if she didn't build and model each problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnniePoo Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 She uses the blocks almost never. The appeal of the program has always been the simple, clean pages (she gets so distracted). And we are in a living situation making it nearly impossible for her to have a quiet space. I have 4 kids and we are in an apartment temporarily. As in, a flat. There is no place for anyone to go. It seems that she understands the info, but that it's a bit of a stretch for her. She has yet to just completely not get something, but it all requires superhuman brainpower for her. It just really seems like the worksheets are taking too long. It's taking about 40 minutes when we're both working together. This was not the case at the beginning of the year, but some worksheets will have 6-8 multi-digit multiplication problems (3-digit x 2-digit) on the front, plus maybe 4-5 more on the back in the form of a story problem. I'm rambling. I have idea if the material is truly too hard (how do you judge that?) or if we're just burned out for the year. What's odd is that she says she likes MUS and doesn't want to switch, but then nearly passes out each day when we get the workbook out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnniePoo Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 And Gil, I understand what you are saying about the parent needing to be near the child and I have taken that into account. I'm always trying to find the right balance of spreading time between all the children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess4879 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 We switched my oldest to TT and it's been a wonderful fit. Math isn't a tearful struggle anymore. It's given her confidence and she loves it. I was hesitant to change as we'd used other programs in the past and it worried me to jump around in math. I also had concern over the comments I'd read here about it being "behind" and "weak." After researching other forums however, the opinion on TT was much different and I decided to give it a try. So glad I did!! It won't be for everyone, but for us it's been a huge blessing. I agree with being available to help, but I don't think this means you need to sit with your child at all times. My kids would not enjoy having me talk them through problems unless they specifically asked for help or were struggling with something. I am more on the boat of, teach the material and then give the child room to practice and think through it. If they need help, by all means help, but I would never sit there and talk them through every problem. To each their own, though. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amyc78 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 We are finishing up Gamma now and dragging through the end of it. The complexity of the 3 digit multiplication problems has made our math time easily take twice as long. My son can do the work and gets the concepts but he makes lots of minor errors due to trying to do so much mental math when our times tables are not solidly memorized right now. So we have decided to finish Gamma and then start CLE 300. I may go back to MUS for Delta at some point but there are some gaps and fluency that I think CLE will help fill in. One thing I did a few weeks ago was stop all new teaching and print a practice worksheet each day from the website, then i would sit with him and work a few problems with him on a dry erase board while he copied on his paper and then let him do a few independently. This seemed to help a good bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateingr Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hey there. :) You may have already considered this, but how about if you just do half a lesson each day (or even a fourth of a lesson each day)? That said, unless there's an attitude problem or other behavior issue that needs to be addressed, in my opinion tears mean it's time for a change. (Especially if mom's the one who's crying.) There's nothing wrong with switching if you feel like it'll bring new energy and joy into your math time (and in fact, I wrote a whole post about it last week.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateingr Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 It just really seems like the worksheets are taking too long. It's taking about 40 minutes when we're both working together. This was not the case at the beginning of the year, but some worksheets will have 6-8 multi-digit multiplication problems (3-digit x 2-digit) on the front, plus maybe 4-5 more on the back in the form of a story problem. One more thought...if she's mastered multi-digit multiplication pretty well, there's absolutely no reason she needs to do that many practice problems on a regular basis. I'm not familiar with the format of MUS, but could she just do one or two multi-digit multiplication problems for maintenance each day and then focus on learning the rest of the lesson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelli Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I just did this last night as a matter of fact. We've loved Math in Focus from 1-3, but in only the 2nd chapter of the 4th grade book (we were already a year behind her grade because of struggles with fractions in the 3rd grade book), Grace fell apart. It just moves too fast for her now since math is not her strong subject. She needed more review than that. We gave CLE a quick trial run last year during our struggles in the 3rd grade book, but we both agreed CLE was not a good fit. After another frustrated, crying session during math yesterday, I made a mad dash to the homeschool store and purchased Horizons 4th grade math. We did the first lesson today and she looked up at me at the end, grinned, and said, "This is perfect, Mom, colorful pages, a little bit of all kinds of math in one lesson, and lots of puzzles." It's the first time she's smiled about math in 6 months. I'm still going to use the Math in Focus way of teaching things since I have all the books, but Horizons is going to be a good fit for her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy M Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 When we were finishing MUS Gamma last year, it did take a while to solve those multi-digit multiplication problems. Vast difference between those and the Alpha single-digit addition my son whizzed through! I would think that any math program working on the same concept would take as long. MUS is not known for overdoing the amount of problems on a work page. Not saying you shouldn't switch though! Just thinking aloud... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsha Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 You could get some ear muffs(the noise reduction ones used for shooting). Also, I would just cut some problems out. You might just drop math for a week or two break. Or you could just read something like Life of Fred for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Creek Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I am in nearly the same spot in Gamma with my second child to use it, and the lessons really do take a very long time! It is like the child moseys along for two-thirds of the book at a moderate pace, then BAM! Multi-digit multiplication takes forever to get through a lesson!!! I decided it was better to spend 20 minutes of focused attention on the problems, and then stop right there and pick the lesson back up the next day. There are much fewer tears this way. I hear you on being tempted to change, though...I am looking for something else for my son next year. MUS is a good fit for my younger daughter, but not my son. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Has she 100% mastered the multiplication tables? Can she answer them all within 2-3 seconds? If not, stop now and go back and work on the ones she is not solid on until she is solid on all of them. That will make multi-digit multiplication go faster. If she has mastered them, does she understand how to set up multi-digit multiplication problems? Is she solid on where to put the zeroes and what column things go in? If not, work on that until she has mastered the concept. This will also make it go faster. If she has mastered both of those things, don't make her do every problem. Does she do more than one page in a day? If so, cut it down. I like kids to do at least one systematic review page per lesson. They don't have to do all the pages in each lesson if they've already got the skill it is teaching down. Teaching Textbooks has multi-digit multiplication, too. If it is just being bogged down by the time those problems take, I'd almost definitely not switch (and I tend to be a math curriculum hopper...). I'd adjust the number of problems. If she is not understanding the concepts the way MUS is teaching them, then I'd strongly consider switching. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSinNS Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Multi-digit multiplication is a drag! And it really does hit hard and fast at the end of MUS. I'd take a break for a few weeks, to be honest, and solidify the multiplication tables (if they aren't close to automatic at this point, the whole thing is way more painful than it needs to be.) Maybe do something else-perhaps a little geometry to break the tension. I'm trying to remember, but right at the end he introduces factoring as well. That's a slightly less painful lesson, though my son found it conceptually hard. Also, if she's got it, she need not do every problem or every worksheet. With my oldest, we'd do B,C,E and F for most lessons and skip the tests except for the unit tests unless he was struggling. My daughter, on the other hand, does every worksheet and lots of extras. With my son, I left the last few chapters of Gamma to the beginning of the next year, which actually was ideal for him. It got his brain back in gear with something familiar, and then we moved on. I really liked how Steve explained long division, but again you run into lesson after lesson of long division towards the end of the book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnniePoo Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Thanks for all the replies. Kate, I had missed your newest post and eagerly read it. I still don' know what i'll do. I think for the next week at least we'll take a break to do more facts practice and maybe 2-3 multiplication problems. I'd write more but my WasteNoTime is about to kick me off so I can do something productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateingr Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Thanks for all the replies. Kate, I had missed your newest post and eagerly read it. I still don' know what i'll do. I think for the next week at least we'll take a break to do more facts practice and maybe 2-3 multiplication problems. I'd write more but my WasteNoTime is about to kick me off so I can do something productive. Wait, you're saying that clicking around on the forums isn't productive!? ;) Maybe I need to try WasteNoTime, as I thought I was sitting down at the computer to work on the powerpoint for my WTM conference presentation and instead find myself here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I think that 6 - 8 multi-digit multiplication or long-division questions a day, plus additional work, would kill any joy in doing math for a 8 or 9 year old. It would kill the joy I have in doing math with my dc, too. I wouldn't necessarily dump the entire curriculum, but I'd certainly adjust the number of questions for my child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitterpatter Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I have no experience with MUS, but I recently figured out that you really, truly don't have to do every problem on the page. I'm finding quality work trumps quantity work and goes a long way in producing happiness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amyc78 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Has she 100% mastered the multiplication tables? Can she answer them all within 2-3 seconds? If not, stop now and go back and work on the ones she is not solid on until she is solid on all of them. That will make multi-digit multiplication go faster. This is where we definitely need to focus our energies over the next few weeks. Any suggested methods? I ordered the Times Tales DVD that everybody raved about and DS said it was just telling a bunch of stories and not actually helping him memorize (I have to admit I did not watch it with him). We've got a set of flash cards that I have him study and then we flip through them. He has all the skip counting songs memorized but not times tables. He is a very visual learner so if I could find a good youtube video or DVD of them set to music or chants, I think that would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnointedHsMom Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 amyc78 if you don't mind your son working on the computer you could download Timez Attack. They have a free version and a paid version. It's a game like program where they practice their math facts. We have used the free version and it's perfectly sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 This is where we definitely need to focus our energies over the next few weeks. Any suggested methods? I ordered the Times Tales DVD that everybody raved about and DS said it was just telling a bunch of stories and not actually helping him memorize (I have to admit I did not watch it with him). We've got a set of flash cards that I have him study and then we flip through them. He has all the skip counting songs memorized but not times tables. He is a very visual learner so if I could find a good youtube video or DVD of them set to music or chants, I think that would do it. Times Tales is great for my 6 year old, but stressed out my 8 year old. What will work really depends on the kid. Some kids like flash cards, some kids like video games (I've heard great things about Timez Attack). My 8 year old likes to have me print out 100 random problems and set the timer for 5 minutes and try to beat the timer writing the answer. Some kids like pen and paper games like hangman (add part of the man for every problem they can't answer within 3 seconds and try to go through all the times tables before the whole man is drawn). Some kids just like repeating the problems out loud over and over. I bet if you search youtube there'd be multiplication videos. I know I've seen a CD before that has the multiplication tables set to music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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