When to begin a second foreign language?

[Luckymama]

Last night dd and I discussed future classes and academic plans while stuck on a plane. She once again expressed the desire to study additional languages in high school. I'm not sure when would be a good time to start a second foreign language. Should she be at the literature-reading stage for the first language or would sooner be ok?

 

Background--she suffered through two years of middle school French (Galore Park) and is starting her second semester of high school Arabic 1 (The Potter's School online, twice a week live classes). She wishes to study another unusual-for-high-school language like Russian, anything from Scandinavia, or Hindi/Farsi/Punjabi/such-like.

 

She would either start with an online class (Russian only, I guess), an online tutor, an in-person tutor (we live in a university town with students from all over the world) or with Pimsleur (thanks to the other thread I discovered our library has just about every language possible). She could take university classes in Russian in the future (she will be taking Arabic there).

 

I'm exploring options right now, so I can have details on hand for our next discussion :)

 

Thanks for any been-there-done-that help!

[regentrude]

Sooner is fine. The earlier you start, the more time you have to work on the language.

In my home country, all students begin the first foreign language in 3rd grade, and the second foreign language is added in 6th.

I myself had Russian as a first foreign language beginning in 3rd, and English as 2nd foreign language beginning in 5th. No problem at all.

[Luckymama]

Sooner is fine. The earlier you start, the more time you have to work on the language.

In my home country, all students begin the first foreign language in 3rd grade, and the second foreign language is added in 6th.

I myself had Russian as a first foreign language beginning in 3rd, and English as 2nd foreign language beginning in 5th. No problem at all.

Thanks for your response.

 

I guess my question is, at what stage of language acquisition is it "safe" to add an additional language? Does it depend on whether the language has it's own script, as Arabic does?

[SarahW]

Thanks for your response.

 

I guess my question is, at what stage of language acquisition is it "safe" to add an additional language? Does it depend on whether the language has it's own script, as Arabic does?

 

 

I honestly don't think the "safe" question matters all that much. I think maybe learning Dutch and German at the same time, both from scratch, wouldn't be very "safe." But while I am far from fluent in Dutch, I was listening to the first German Pimsleur disc the other day, and it dawned it me that the second way Dutch constructs negation also exists in German, and hearing it in German helped me understand the Dutch construction a little better.

 

On the other hand, when I lived in Jerusalem I started picking up both Hebrew and Arabic script and tourist phrases. I never got the two confused. But I didn't advance very far in either.

 

The next foreign country I lived in for a few months I started trying to pick up tourist phrases, and I did have the problem of my memory coming up with Arabic words instead. Why did that happen? Because I did not know the words in the new language. Really, that was all there was to it. It was a sign I needed to study the new vocab a lot better.

 

The only other time I used the "wrong" language was when I was going through a toll in France and said "dank U" even though I very well know "merci." We had just passed tolls in The Netherlands and Belgium, and honestly, I had never spoken French to a IRL French person before, so that was just a matter of familiarity.

 

I think learning Arabic and Russian at the same time is fine. The only drawback is the time sink necessary for learning a language. If she is willing to put the time into both of them, it should be fine.

 

Oh, and Scandinavian languages are fine as well, but I would suggest avoiding Finnish.  ;)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I studied both German and French in high school and German and Russian in college.  I think for a student who is doing well in the first language, it's not too hard to start learning the second.  There is a tremendous boost to having already learned that other languages have conjugations, genders and declensions (concepts that can be frustrating to English speakers when they start out with a foreign language).

 

I never had two languages that were really close (like French and Spanish), so there wasn't too much confusion about the vocab.  I did have a German accent in my Russian for a while on particular sounds.  

 

I did find that it was easier for me if the language I was less fluent in was earlier in the day than the stronger language.  Best case would have been different days or before and after lunch.  Unfortunately I almost always had Russian and German back to back.

[Penguin]

My son's two languages complement each other, but I can't claim that we planned it that way...it just happened.  But maybe that is why he is really happy with the combination?  For example, Latin grammar is complex, and Danish verbs don't even conjugate.  Danish is a beast to pronounce correctly, and Latin pronunciation is the least of the difficulties involved in the subject. 

[RootAnn]

I have no idea, but dd#1 constantly asks when she can start her 3rd & 4th foreign language.

 

For us, the answer is, "when you can make the time for it."

(My dd#2 & dd#3 would prefer their 2nd foreign language to be French, but time-wise, they will need to wait to start it until their spelling is better. We need that time in their day for spelling. that's okay as I'm waiting for Getting Started With French. :toetap05: )

[madteaparty]

I debated this very issue a few months ago and realized striking while iron was hot was best. So long as the child is willing, we are plowing ahead. DS studies French and Arabic--he is much more advanced in French and that will always be the case. I hope to add Latin next year once he has 4 semesters of Arabic and has completed a few months in France.  I realize one day he may well decide his interests lie elsewhere. Until then...

ETA: When I asked here about my dilemma I was told studying two languages simultaneously worked best if the alphabet was different (as would be the case with pretty much any language your DD picks!). 

[Arcadia]

I guess my question is, at what stage of language acquisition is it "safe" to add an additional language?

When we added Chinese (native), we were looking out for grammar confusion. By the time we added German, kids are already experienced at puzzling out grammar differences between English and whatever additional language.

 

Basically we only worry when adding the first additional language. Subsequent languages we worry about the time commitment.

[8filltheheart]

So has she completely dropped French?

 

Fwiw, I would personally wait until she has mastered basic Arabic (script, basic language structure, etc) After that, go for it.

 

You might want to check into Startalk camps. We never seem to live near one or fit the other qualifications, but they offer both Arabic and Russian.

[Luckymama]

So has she completely dropped French?

 

Fwiw, I would personally wait until she has mastered basic Arabic (script, basic language structure, etc) After that, go for it.

 

You might want to check into Startalk camps. We never seem to live near one or fit the other qualifications, but they offer both Arabic and Russian.

Yes, she completely dropped French during her massive math expansion.

 

We just spent an hour looking at summer language programs for Arabic, Startalk included! I couldn't find any residential Arabic programs funded for this year for Startalk. The Middlebury programs are way too expensive.

 

She really likes the idea of the Concordia four week program. I'll start a separate post for info about any experiences w Concordia.

[EndOfOrdinary]

I do not know if it would work for you guys, but here the languages are called primary, secondary, and introductory. The different designations allow Ds to think about the way he is learning differently.

 

Primary is Spanish because he has had it the longest. He does the most work in it because it is just the most familiar. It takes less work to get further and fits into just conversation easier. Ds does it first thing every day without even thinking about it. I do not think he even considers it "studying" anymore. He is nowhere near fluent, but the level of active, struggling work is gone. He is absorbing and relatively at ease with it.

 

Secondary is Latin. He does more translation work because he is still developing. The pace is no where near as fast, but it is plugging along. This one is still work, so if the day is full it gets dropped (usually his first choice to go). It is a secondary thought that is much more planned to work with.

 

Introductory is Japanese. Ds just started this year and he is playing with it. Basic alphabet, sounds, writing. This one gets very little time, but is hit every day. It is still fun, silly, and takes less than fifteen minutes a day. It is not seriously studied at all, but just being introduced.

 

The different designations show a level of density to the studying so Ds does not get overwhelmed.

[GoodGrief]

I think earlier is better, and it gives her the opportunity to decide whether she truly enjoys the language before she hits high school.

 

A word of caution from someone whose kids chose relatively unusual languages (Turkish and Mandarin.)  It's much easier if there is a local tutor available, and you might want to take that into consideration as she is making her choices.  Finding Turkish curric in our relatively remote area...ack!  We do have a wonderful Mandarin tutor, which makes all the difference.

[Luckymama]

I think earlier is better, and it gives her the opportunity to decide whether she truly enjoys the language before she hits high school.

 

A word of caution from someone whose kids chose relatively unusual languages (Turkish and Mandarin.) It's much easier if there is a local tutor available, and you might want to take that into consideration as she is making her choices. Finding Turkish curric in our relatively remote area...ack! We do have a wonderful Mandarin tutor, which makes all the difference.

Thanks :) She is currently a ninth grader.

[Dina in Oklahoma]

Very helpful, THANKS!

 

 

I do not know if it would work for you guys, but here the languages are called primary, secondary, and introductory. The different designations allow Ds to think about the way he is learning differently.

Primary is Spanish because he has had it the longest. He does the most work in it because it is just the most familiar. It takes less work to get further and fits into just conversation easier. Ds does it first thing every day without even thinking about it. I do not think he even considers it "studying" anymore. He is nowhere near fluent, but the level of active, struggling work is gone. He is absorbing and relatively at ease with it.

Secondary is Latin. He does more translation work because he is still developing. The pace is no where near as fast, but it is plugging along. This one is still work, so if the day is full it gets dropped (usually his first choice to go). It is a secondary thought that is much more planned to work with.

Introductory is Japanese. Ds just started this year and he is playing with it. Basic alphabet, sounds, writing. This one gets very little time, but is hit every day. It is still fun, silly, and takes less than fifteen minutes a day. It is not seriously studied at all, but just being introduced.

The different designations show a level of density to the studying so Ds does not get overwhelmed.