Loowit Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I really need some help. If anyone can point me in the right direction I would be very grateful. My older son crossed over to a boy scout troop in February. We have a close associate with this troop, it is the one that DH was in as a youth and we knew many of the scouts and scouters for years before joining. DH is registered as an Assistant Scoutmaster and I am a committee member and in charge of advancement. We have had some difficulty adjusting to the troop. They are a very established troop and have become a bit set in the ways they are used to doing things which doesn't always fit with scouting rules. For the most part we have worked through things and things are going okay for the most part. This weekend an issue came up when we were dropping our son off for an outing. Two of the other committee members were approached by the treasurer about getting a check written giving her son (treasurer's son) the money out of his scout account. A bit of background: scout accounts have been a bit issue in the troop since we were informed by our DE about them not being legal. The committee has been very unwilling to change, although they have come up with some point system or something to track what the boys earn. Anyway, the treasurer's son is about to age out of scouting in a few months. He still has money in his account and wants to get it so that he can use it for college. It is my understand that we can't do that. The money raised is supposed to pay for things in scouting like camp, handbooks, dues, recharter, etc. So am I correct that even if we have individual accounts that the money cannot be just given to the scout to spend on whatever? The committee chair is adamant that the money is the boys and he can use it for whatever he wants. I have a little over a week to try to find out what the laws are before the committee meets to discuss this topic. I would really like links to official sites and documentation if anyone has any. I have found plenty of stuff on the individual scout accounts and not to do them, but I need information on what money from money earning activities can be spent on and whether or not we can just give money to a scout to spend on non-scouting things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 From everything I remember, it has to be used for Scouting. It can be used for trips, activities, uniforms, camping equipment, etc. We always required the scout purchase the equipment first and then reimbursed it, so they couldn't go spend it on something else. They could not cash it out when they leave the troop. We have had scouts use the money to pay for the Eagle Ceremony. I'd contact your council on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 From everything I remember, it has to be used for Scouting. It can be used for trips, activities, uniforms, camping equipment, etc. We always required the scout purchase the equipment first and then reimbursed it, so they couldn't go spend it on something else. They could not cash it out when they leave the troop. We have had scouts use the money to pay for the Eagle Ceremony. I'd contact your council on this one. This is how our troop dealt with scout accounts. Having a scout account provided a little extra motivation to work on fundraisers. My son used his mostly for his Philmont trip and then any campouts after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 The money does not belong to the Scout. It belongs to the CO. If he "earned" it doing fundraisers, it becomes wages and thus subject to withholding if he owns the money. Most troops ignore that and allow the Scout to use it on Scout-like things such as a bike or backpack. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/financeimpact/pdf/INDIVIDUAL_SCOUT_ACCOUNTS_AND_FUNDRAISING_BY_BSA_UNITS_20140226.pdf Technically, the Scout account should not be used to individual items, such as that bike. If it goes to the Scout to use for a period of time (til he ages out) then the bike is turned back to the troop. Again, most troops ignore that. However, the money is NOT the Scout's. I agree with this. I will say in addition? That our non-BSA scouting group opted to design a number of fundraising incentives- sell x$ and receive free registration sell y$ and receive free uniform sell z$ and receive free camping and so forth That eliminated the need/desire for individual accounts. It is legal. It doesn't give the scout a sense of ownership over the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tess in the Burbs Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 When my son was in BS I went to committee meetings and every month they went through the list of boys gone with money left. If they could, they sent them a check. So troops do it...guess it's up to your group if you do or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I am not involved with BS, so I cannot make a statement for BS policy, but basically, if the money is given for an individual that would be taxable income to the individual. There are other tax issues involved. An individual may make a tax-deductible contribution to a charity--but not to an individual. Therefore, no money that is considered a "tax-deductible contribution" can be then given to an individual for them for their own individual use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I know this is chicken . . . But, if it were me advising me . . . I'd advise me to turn my eyes the other way. No one is going to go to jail. No one is trying to do some awful thing. There are plenty of other battles to choose . . . This is one I'd avoid. I'd turn the other way, feign ignorance, avoid committee or other duties that would put me in position of discussing this . . . They've done it this way for a long time. Let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I am not involved with BS, so I cannot make a statement for BS policy, but basically, if the money is given for an individual that would be taxable income to the individual. There are other tax issues involved. An individual may make a tax-deductible contribution to a charity--but not to an individual. Therefore, no money that is considered a "tax-deductible contribution" can be then given to an individual for them for their own individual use. Yep, if he is just given a check, that money becomes taxable income which could potentially cause big problems for the troop and the troop sponsor. On the otherhand, I have never heard of the IRS going after a scout troop for anything. My solution would be that the troop could give him a "scholarship" in that amout but send it directly to his college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loowit Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 I can't let it go. If what they are doing is illegal I can't be a part of it. I may just end up leaving the troop quietly, but I will not be a part of something that is illegal especially if they are promoting scouting values such as trustworthy and not being so themselves. The other problem is that our charter organization can lose its tax exempt status over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loowit Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 I do want to thank people for their perspectives and advice. I really like the idea of incentives, it is not something I had thought of before. I am typically a person who doesn't make waves and I try to avoid conflict, but this one is important. I do not want our charter org to get into trouble because we don't want to follow the rules. But I guess it is like I tell my kids, we do the right thing because it is right, not because we don't want to get in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 The money from fundraisers should never been given to a Scout as cash. The treasurer is asking the committee to do something that is definitely against Scout policy. Our troop allows boys to earn money, but it is only given as credit for things like summer camp or registration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I can't let it go. If what they are doing is illegal I can't be a part of it. I may just end up leaving the troop quietly, but I will not be a part of something that is illegal especially if they are promoting scouting values such as trustworthy and not being so themselves. The other problem is that our charter organization can lose its tax exempt status over this. I know nothing about Boy Scouts, but I understand this! I hate making waves, but I seem to find myself in the position of saying "no we cannot make copies of that, it's illegal" a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootsie Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Personally, I would be required to report this if I were in your situation to maintain professional credentials that I hold. It might help to go a bit beyond the legality of the situation but explain why it is fraudulent. This goes beyond simply tax issues. People supported the fund raisers to support boy scout activities. They would not have necessarily bought popcorn, had their car washed, or participated in whatever the fundraiser was to raise money for college funds or whatever someone wants to spend the money on. If the funds are not used on boy scout activities (not the activity of someone who used to be a boy scout), then there was dishonesty in the raising of the funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loowit Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 Quick update: after a few emails back and forth the committee chair decided he should look into the issue. He is now figuring out that it is a bad idea to just give the boy the money. So now the discussion will be what is considered a legitimate expense and reorganizing troop money and how we look at it. He is planning to contact our council office for advice on how to proceed. So I am happy that this is turning out better than expected. The only hard part is I know that the mom of the boy is going to be furious if her son doesn't get "his" money, and she has access to our account. I am hoping we can resolve it amicably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 Quick update: after a few emails back and forth the committee chair decided he should look into the issue. He is now figuring out that it is a bad idea to just give the boy the money. So now the discussion will be what is considered a legitimate expense and reorganizing troop money and how we look at it. He is planning to contact our council office for advice on how to proceed. So I am happy that this is turning out better than expected. The only hard part is I know that the mom of the boy is going to be furious if her son doesn't get "his" money, and she has access to our account. I am hoping we can resolve it amicably. How does she have access? Please tell me that TWO signatures are required on checks...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 That is insanely unethical. Shame on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loowit Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 How does she have access? Please tell me that TWO signatures are required on checks...... She is the treasurer. We do require dual signatures but the credit union has been letting them through with only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 She is the treasurer. We do require dual signatures but the credit union has been letting them through with only one. She needs to be told she is not allowed to write a check to herself or son without approval and second signature. And to know that it she can be charged with embezzling if she does so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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