OneStepAtATime Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 DD has been doing well with the format of CLE math (layout is clean, lots of tight spiral review, etc.). I am considering trying other subjects for her. However, even though we are Christian, the upper levels (middle school and high school) seem really overly religious for our purposes and I can't really tell how good the material is. Is there anything out there that is set up like CLE but not quite so religious in nature? And can anyone give me feedback on Middle School and High School level CLE material? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 My friend taught all three of her kids with CLE and then entering Bellevue community college at 16. All three were weak on math (but all three were also behind on math) but have otherwise excelled after getting to college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I've been told that Starline Press is basically CLE without the religion http://www.starlinepress.com/. I have never used either, so I have no basis for comparison, just passing along what I've heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Creek Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I've been told that Starline Press is basically CLE without the religion http://www.starlinepress.com/. I have never used either, so I have no basis for comparison, just passing along what I've heard. I was looking through the samples on the website, and it appears the curriculum has a heavy religious slant - the introduction to the 9th grade earth science sample mocks those that believe in evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I was looking through the samples on the website, and it appears the curriculum has a heavy religious slant - the introduction to the 9th grade earth science sample mocks those that believe in evolution. You're right. As I said, I hadn't ever investigated either of these curricula in any depth because they didn't appear to be the format we were looking for, and there's nothing in their "about us" to indicate the slant. Looks like my informant was incorrect. Thanks for the correction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 You're right. As I said, I hadn't ever investigated either of these curricula in any depth because they didn't appear to be the format we were looking for, and there's nothing in their "about us" to indicate the slant. Looks like my informant was incorrect. Thanks for the correction! I thought they were secular for some reason, too. I'm glad someone found that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Starline Press is secular. Check the TOC for 1006 from high school biology: http://www.rainbowresource.com/pictures/051443/668d085eb06fc2180e1e2a28?subject=2&category=4243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Creek Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 You're right. As I said, I hadn't ever investigated either of these curricula in any depth because they didn't appear to be the format we were looking for, and there's nothing in their "about us" to indicate the slant. Looks like my informant was incorrect. Thanks for the correction! I had never heard of it either before today, so I nosed around on the site (I like to look at curriculum, even if it is in a format that doesn't work in my house :blushing: I am curious like that) and the science sample I read kind of shocked me. I read the "About us" page first, and it mentions nothing about religion and it claims to be used in charter schools, so I assumed it would be secular. Most companies that produce materials that promote a Christian belief system are very up-front about it, so I don't even want to speculate about why they would do this - none of the reasons I can think of paint them in a very positive light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I was looking through the samples on the website, and it appears the curriculum has a heavy religious slant - the introduction to the 9th grade earth science sample mocks those that believe in evolution. Link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Starline Press is secular. Check the TOC for 1006 from high school biology: http://www.rainbowresource.com/pictures/051443/668d085eb06fc2180e1e2a28?subject=2&category=4243 If they are secular, then, based on the sample pages on their website that were mentioned above, they are going about it in an odd way, at least in sect 1 of 9th grade science, the only science actual sample shown. Honestly, I wouldn't want that much effort spent in science class on creation theory, even if it is in order to refute it later on (and without more context, I can't tell how they proceed). http://www.starlinepress.com/files/Science901.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 If they are secular, then, based on the sample pages on their website that were mentioned above, they are going about it in an odd way, at least in sect 1 of 9th grade science, the only science actual sample shown. Honestly, I wouldn't want that much effort spent in science class on creation theory, even if it is in order to refute it later on (and without more context, I can't tell how they proceed). http://www.starlinepress.com/files/Science901.pdf OK, I just skimmed this but I didn't see where it mocks a belief in evolution? "Creativity" seems to be a focus trait for the unit, but not necessarily in the sense of God as Creator. Quotes like this "Creativity, as has been said, consists largely of rearranging what we know in order to find out what we do not know. Hence, to think creatively, we must be able to look afresh at what we normally take for granted. ~ George Kneller ~" included in the unit suggest a different perspective on "creative" and "creativity" --I took the introduction as just an attention step. Hmm, maybe I skimmed too fast. Is this what you were talking about? " One main challenge is that in many arenas evolutionary theory is presented as fact, and it is assumed that all involved (presenter and student) subscribe to this theory as fact. It is ironic that in order to devise a theory, one must rely on his innate creative ability. " Doesn't sound entirely secular... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Creek Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Starline Press is secular. Check the TOC for 1006 from high school biology: http://www.rainbowresource.com/pictures/051443/668d085eb06fc2180e1e2a28?subject=2&category=4243 The TOC for the 7th grade science includes an entire chapter on Intelligent Design. I would guess that is one of the three theories of the origins of life that the TOC for the high school biology is referencing. I have never, ever read a secular science textbook that included ID as a possible theory of the origins of life. The 9th grade science includes Bible verses, quotes from individuals that show their belief in a Creator, and instructs the students to explain what the founding fathers meant when they referred to all men being "created" by a "Creator." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Creek Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Link? Here you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Probably wouldn't bother me since I subscribe to more of a theistic evolution belief; just not as secular as I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 That's frustrating. I just ordered Starline Press 7th grade science. I was so happy to see evolution listed in the TOC. We are Christian, but I want solid science based on current scientific theory instead of science-through-the-lens-of-Creationism. I guess I will just have to look through it and make margin notes on anything I find to be troublesome. Dd has already learned some about evolutionary theory and we've discussed Creationism, but I was very much hoping for a purely secular approach. I don't feel like I can wholly trust a Creationism-biased publisher to accurately present evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 That's frustrating. I just ordered Starline Press 7th grade science. I was so happy to see evolution listed in the TOC. We are Christian, but I want solid science based on current scientific theory instead of science-through-the-lens-of-Creationism. I guess I will just have to look through it and make margin notes on anything I find to be troublesome. Dd has already learned some about evolutionary theory and we've discussed Creationism, but I was very much hoping for a purely secular approach. I don't feel like I can wholly trust a Creationism-biased publisher to accurately present evolution. Once your books arrive you'll have to let us know how they really approach things. Too bad there aren't more samples online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Um, holy cow. It states that "creation science" is a theory and that it's the "first and oldest" scientific theory. It says that the fact of creativity implies a creator. Not secular at all. Oh, and the author's grasp of proper sentence construction is lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Thanks ladies. I guess all this to say that I will still be looking. DD likes the layout of the pages on CLE math. Very clean, not crowded, not an abundance of any one particular type of problem. She also is doing well with the tight spiral. Long spiral is useless for her. Mastery with no spiral is also utterly useless. She is really happy with CLE and is retaining the material so far which is huge since she is dyslexic and possibly dyscalculic. I just wondered if the other subjects were handled the same way but when I started looking at the Science material I realized I needed something LIKE CLE but preferably secular for the other subjects. Since Starline doesn't seem to fit the bill, any other ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Could you go CLE for the reading, math, and LA, but sub out content subjects with something else? I've heard fantastic things (from secular and religious folks alike) about the reading, math, and LA (we only use the math, but are considering the reading and LA - we're Catholic, so the science and social studies is a definite no-go for us). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Could you go CLE for the reading, math, and LA, but sub out content subjects with something else? I've heard fantastic things (from secular and religious folks alike) about the reading, math, and LA (we only use the math, but are considering the reading and LA - we're Catholic, so the science and social studies is a definite no-go for us). Interesting thought. Thanks, AimeeM! I wasn't going to use the LA stuff since I have that covered with Barton/IEW/Fix-It Grammar. But the reading might be interesting... She just likes the format so much with CLE Math I was hoping it would be an option for a couple of other areas as well. Like possibly a History spine for some things. Mostly I have that covered for this year with various sources. Next year will be more problematic since she will be in High School technically. And yeah, I'm not Catholic but the CLE Science is out. Wish I was experienced enough, organized enough, and skilled enough to write my own. Oh, well. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 Although the reading selections look pretty narrow in scope... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Interesting thought. Thanks, AimeeM! I wasn't going to use the LA stuff since I have that covered with Barton/IEW/Fix-It Grammar. But the reading might be interesting... She just likes the format so much with CLE Math I was hoping it would be an option for a couple of other areas as well. Like possibly a History spine for some things. Mostly I have that covered for this year with various sources. Next year will be more problematic since she will be in High School technically. And yeah, I'm not Catholic but the CLE Science is out. Wish I was experienced enough, organized enough, and skilled enough to write my own. Oh, well. :) Ellen McHenry? Well, I guess not for high school, but you could use them as a jumping off point :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I looked at the Starline sample. You could use CK12 to make something like that. You'd have to do some copying and pasting into Word, but it could work. Or, you could print off the workbook pages and have them fill them out at the computer or tablet while they read and watch the videos. CK12 is secular in that it's written to state standards. I've never seen any Creationist slant (but I haven't read everything). Not all of their subjects have workbooks, but quite a few do. Another possibility is the Prentice Hall small books (the lettered books: A, B, C, etc.) and the workbook which is a compilation of Life, Physical or Earth Science. You can tear out the appropriate pages and have them fill them out as they read. If you need something easier, there are workbooks available called Interactive Readers that are meant for kids with LDs and cover lots of science and history topics. These are similar in layout to the Starline sample in that you read a little chunk and then answer questions immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Have you looked at REAL Science Odyssey form science? I find the format accessible and Home Science Tools sells experiment kits to match the curriculum. They don't go through high school though at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momling Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 What makes you like CLE? Is it the neat little self-contained size? The spiral? The workbook format? Check out Walch Power Basics.They're for high school but remedial so I think would be perfect for middle schoolers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 What makes you like CLE? Is it the neat little self-contained size? The spiral? The workbook format? Check out Walch Power Basics.They're for high school but remedial so I think would be perfect for middle schoolers. Well, actually it isn't me that is liking CLE so much as DD. DS is using MiF but DD did not do well with that...or about half a dozen other programs. CLE has worked well for her because she likes the clean pages, the workbooks are not overwhelmingly large so she feels like she is accomplishing something and moving forward when she completes a book, she likes that they are written to the student, she likes the really tight spiral approach, she even likes the flash cards. She was hoping to find something like this for other subjects that we could use as a spine and I agreed that it might help her but so far I haven't found anything else exactly like CLE and CLE is just too religious in nature for us in some subjects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In2why Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Well, actually it isn't me that is liking CLE so much as DD. DS is using MiF but DD did not do well with that...or about half a dozen other programs. CLE has worked well for her because she likes the clean pages, the workbooks are not overwhelmingly large so she feels like she is accomplishing something and moving forward when she completes a book, she likes that they are written to the student, she likes the really tight spiral approach, she even likes the flash cards. She was hoping to find something like this for other subjects that we could use as a spine and I agreed that it might help her but so far I haven't found anything else exactly like CLE and CLE is just too religious in nature for us in some subjects. Based on what you have said I would look at Growing with Grammar and Writing with Skill. They are not in small workbooks but they have uncluttered pages and a spiral approach written to the student. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnMomof7 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 CLE Reading is very religious. Much more so than their LA and Math. FWIW, their science and social studies are not very spiral. not like their math. The social studies in particular is more distinctly Mennonite than any other subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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