lovinmomma Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Background: This is DD9's first year back homeschooling after being in PS for 3 years. We use a virtual school. I could explain why if necessary, but suffice it to say that it was either virtual school or public brick and mortar school. We do have to keep up a consistent pace in our curriculum due to the charter/virtual school. DD is in 4th grade. My daughter is dyslexic (no formal diagnosis), and we're hitting a wall with math. DD is struggling with memorizing her math facts (understandably). Actually, she struggles with any sort of rote memorization. I realize that her dyslexia is the main cause of this. She doesn't have her addition and subtraction facts fully memorized to the point that they're recalled correctly and quickly, and now we're at a place in math where dd needs to be able to recall multiplication facts quickly (she spent the majority of 3rd grade trying to memorize multiplication facts). DD's inability to memorize her addition facts is playing into her inability to memorize her multiplication facts, which in turn is affecting how well/quickly she can solve division problems. I feel like it's all piling up. I removed dd from public school after 3rd grade ended this past year due to dd's school being unwilling to entertain the idea that she has dyslexia. The school didn't feel any concern, because dd wasn't failing her classes. DD was, however, spending all day at school studying, and then spending all evening (other than about 30 mins of play time) working on homework and correcting assignments from in class in order to keep her grades afloat. I guess I'm just at a loss as to what to do. I don't know how to help her. For example, we had a math lesson this past week that asked dd to divide. I can't remember the exact number, but it was something along the lines of 92/3. DD had absolutely NO clue what to do. She tried counting by 3s, but she wasn't accurate at counting by 3s. She tried multiplying, but her multiplication facts aren't memorized completely so the answer was incorrect if she tried using multiplication. It's so sad to watch her struggle, and it breaks my Mommy heart watching her get frustrated. How do you all help your dyslexic children memorize math facts, or how do you help them get around that obstacle so that you can move forward in math? ETA: She's tried daily math drills (for literally years), apps on my phone, computer games, dice/board games and flash cards. X-Posted on the Learning Challenges board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Creek Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Print out an addition fact sheet and a multiplication fact sheet for her to use during math lessons. She will either learn the facts after looking at them so often or she will progress to the point that she can use a calculator for math. Does she learn songs easily? Have you tried teaching her skip counting songs to get to the answer for multiplication problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidbits of Learning Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 If you are in a virtual charter school, request that they evaluate her for a 504 for dyslexia. We actually got ds11's diagnosis once we joined the virtual charter. The 504 allows us to use graphic organizers (mult. chart and those type things) as well as calculators. I would like my ds to learn his math facts by heart eventually but this way he isn't stalled in lower level maths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLMom Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 My 9 year old dd is dyslexic and in private school for the first time this year. They are great at making accommodations for her. She is allowed to use a skip counting chart for multiplication and division. She doesn't have many of her facts memorized either. They also only make her do 15 minutes worth of math homework if there is any. Read about math accommodations for dyslexics and do the same for your child at home. I tried for years to get my dd to memorize facts; it just brought us both to tears. Where I live, once in 5th grade, they can use a calculator for any of the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco_Clark Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Yep, get her an addition chart and a multiplication chart and teach her how to use them. I am dyslexic and despite YEARS of effort never memorized my facts. I even tried really hard last year as an ADULT to learn my addition facts...and it's just not going to happen. My 6yo is beginning to overlap me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I've just started tutoring a boy in Algebra with dyslexia. Is it common to not be able to learn your facts? If so, why. Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 This is not unusual! you'll see it listed in many places as one of the hallmarks of dyslexia. The thing is - many dyslexics are really good at geometry, algebra & calculus. They can have a remarkably deep understanding of math & an ability to visualize in 3d etc that might elude the 'good' student who can recite the times table. Don't make any kids feel they're bad at math because they're not getting multiplication tables. Give them a chart or a calculator & move on. It's only slowing them down because you're making them slow down. For me, this is like using a wheelchair for a physical handicap. If you have some mobility, then yes, do the physio & the exercises & the therapies if you can walk a bit so you can strengthen, and improve & walk more; but also use the darned wheelchair when you need to get somewhere. Don't make the kid stay home just because they can't walk in the museum..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairProspects Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I've just started tutoring a boy in Algebra with dyslexia. Is it common to not be able to learn your facts? If so, why. Ruth in NZ It has to do with the spacing of columns in the brains of dyslexics. The columns are spaced much farther apart than in the neurotypical brain so the brain must make very long, circuitous connections between these columns to store and recall math facts as well as other rote memorization info. There are other issues too with the way the brain stores & retrieves information. Some dyslexics do learn math facts after WAY more practice and years of brain maturity but some do not and instead create other ways around the issue such as with charts & calculators or repeatedly deriving calculations from concepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Thanks for this. This boy is 14 and does not know his maths facts, so I sent him home with flashcards. So far he seems to be learning them, so perhaps it is just a brain maturity thing like you said. I hope so, because algebra without math facts is slooooow. I'll ask the school if they allow calculators for dyslexics. Never knew there was a connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Can I also say to the OPer that my oldest was still learning his subtraction tables while concurrently starting algebra. Math facts are simply NOT math, they are more like memorizing random dates for history class. My suggestion would be to move to something like measurement, geometry, investigations, puzzlers, or graphing while waiting for the math facts to catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 What about audio learning? I've not had a dyslexic student, so this may be an ignorant question, but if visual/reading issues are difficult, wouldn't memorizing via an audio recording help retention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 I'll ask the school if they allow calculators for dyslexics. Never knew there was a connection. Kids & college students with official dx of these types of LD's can get accommodations to specifically allow calculators &/or more time with exams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovinmomma Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 Print out an addition fact sheet and a multiplication fact sheet for her to use during math lessons. She will either learn the facts after looking at them so often or she will progress to the point that she can use a calculator for math. Does she learn songs easily? Have you tried teaching her skip counting songs to get to the answer for multiplication problems? When you say multiplication fact sheet.... are you meaning a table chart of the math facts? Is that what you're meaning? Acutally, skip counting songs are one thing that I haven't tried yet, and that's probably something that I should try. DD loves music. When I've used songs for memorization in other areas previously she still has to sing the whole song to find whatever it is she's trying to remember. For example, when trying to alphabetize, she has to sing the abc song until she gets to the letter that she's looking for instead of being able to start somewhere closer in the song, or just recalling where the letter comes in the alphabet. Does that make sense? If you are in a virtual charter school, request that they evaluate her for a 504 for dyslexia. We actually got ds11's diagnosis once we joined the virtual charter. The 504 allows us to use graphic organizers (mult. chart and those type things) as well as calculators. I would like my ds to learn his math facts by heart eventually but this way he isn't stalled in lower level maths. I will definitely check that out! Her teacher is aware of her struggles, so I'll have a talk with him. My 9 year old dd is dyslexic and in private school for the first time this year. They are great at making accommodations for her. She is allowed to use a skip counting chart for multiplication and division. She doesn't have many of her facts memorized either. They also only make her do 15 minutes worth of math homework if there is any. Read about math accommodations for dyslexics and do the same for your child at home. I tried for years to get my dd to memorize facts; it just brought us both to tears. Where I live, once in 5th grade, they can use a calculator for any of the facts. Maybe I don't know what a skip counting chart is... off to find out. :) These are awesome suggestions, and I appreciate the perspective. I think I need to relax a bit. :) Yep, get her an addition chart and a multiplication chart and teach her how to use them. I am dyslexic and despite YEARS of effort never memorized my facts. I even tried really hard last year as an ADULT to learn my addition facts...and it's just not going to happen. My 6yo is beginning to overlap me. Thank you for responding as an adult with dyslexia! It helps to have your insight as someone that has btdt. Thanks! This is not unusual! you'll see it listed in many places as one of the hallmarks of dyslexia. The thing is - many dyslexics are really good at geometry, algebra & calculus. They can have a remarkably deep understanding of math & an ability to visualize in 3d etc that might elude the 'good' student who can recite the times table. Don't make any kids feel they're bad at math because they're not getting multiplication tables. Give them a chart or a calculator & move on. It's only slowing them down because you're making them slow down. For me, this is like using a wheelchair for a physical handicap. If you have some mobility, then yes, do the physio & the exercises & the therapies if you can walk a bit so you can strengthen, and improve & walk more; but also use the darned wheelchair when you need to get somewhere. Don't make the kid stay home just because they can't walk in the museum..... Great advice!!! Thank you! I appreciate the encouragement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovinmomma Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 Can I also say to the OPer that my oldest was still learning his subtraction tables while concurrently starting algebra. Math facts are simply NOT math, they are more like memorizing random dates for history class. My suggestion would be to move to something like measurement, geometry, investigations, puzzlers, or graphing while waiting for the math facts to catch up. Regarding the bolded (bolding mine), this is exactly what I needed to hear! Thank you! That's a much different perspective from the way that I was approaching it. What about audio learning? I've not had a dyslexic student, so this may be an ignorant question, but if visual/reading issues are difficult, wouldn't memorizing via an audio recording help retention? Good question! I'll check out some skip counting songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Creek Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 When you say multiplication fact sheet.... are you meaning a table chart of the math facts? Is that what you're meaning? Acutally, skip counting songs are one thing that I haven't tried yet, and that's probably something that I should try. DD loves music. When I've used songs for memorization in other areas previously she still has to sing the whole song to find whatever it is she's trying to remember. For example, when trying to alphabetize, she has to sing the abc song until she gets to the letter that she's looking for instead of being able to start somewhere closer in the song, or just recalling where the letter comes in the alphabet. Does that make sense? I mean something like this addition table and multiplication table, or this chart. Whichever works best for her and will provide the answer the quickest. My daughter can memorize with songs as well, but like yours, she has to start at the beginning of the song every time. Skip counting songs are a helpful crutch in absence of a multiplication table, though. If an occasion calls for multiplication (like dividing a handful of small candies among friends) she can silently sing a skip counting song and get to the answer in a reasonable amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 If you are in a virtual charter school, request that they evaluate her for a 504 for dyslexia. We actually got ds11's diagnosis once we joined the virtual charter. The 504 allows us to use graphic organizers (mult. chart and those type things) as well as calculators. I would like my ds to learn his math facts by heart eventually but this way he isn't stalled in lower level maths. It sounds as though her state, like my own, doesn't recognize dyslexia as a special need, and will not diagnosis it. If this is the case, she needs to request (firmly) that the child be evaluated for "learning disabilities" (general - they can, will, have to do THAT much), and ask for a 504 based on the results there. State rules apply to the state's virtual academics :( Unfortunately, though, I wouldn't count on it happening any time soon. It can take months, at best. Her only recourse may be to find a way to pay for a private eval - the school will have to accommodate at that point (I know the OP has said before that money is a concern, so this may not be possible). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco_Clark Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 What about audio learning? I've not had a dyslexic student, so this may be an ignorant question, but if visual/reading issues are difficult, wouldn't memorizing via an audio recording help retention? I'm not going to say this WONT work, because of course sometimes it does. But I wanted to just jump in and say that dyslexia is often misunderstood as a visual issue when it is not. It has much more to do with how your brain stores information than it does with how you visually see something. I am dyslexic, like mentioned above and when it comes up people always exclaim, "but you can read and write!" Because that is all anyone hears. But dyslexia also can effect learning math facts, having a hard time remembering words or correct pronunciation, spatial awareness (I am well-known for easily getting lost. GPS was a personal god-send), and all sorts of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 http://www.donpotter.net/pdf/multiplication-matrix.pdf Going at it from the reverse direction may help. Do a few lines a day and build up speed: http://www.greendot.org/uploaded/uploads/leadership/docs/Math_Summer_Bridge_Assignment_Verbal_Practice.pdf If you want to see it in action, Google 60 second sweep math honeycomb or some combination of those words and look at videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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