How common is cheating on required state exams for hs'ers?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Most homeschool students grade 3 and higher in our state are tested using the Stanford Achievement Test which is administered by a neutral proctor.  Our state has a list of acceptable tests so if an unproctored test is on there then it has been approved by the government.  It's so easy to just sign up for the SAT so I haven't looked at other test options though to see if some of them are unproctored or if they allow parent administration.  

[Ellie]

 

But the post was really not about this particular family member, more a matter of curiosity, wondering if other people had heard from hs'ers about cheating on standardized tests. In talking to her, she was under the impression it was extremely common, which kind of shocked me.

 

She's just a baby homeschooler. I wonder where she got her impression from. Other homeschoolers? People who are not homeschoolers but make assumptions?

Percentiles aren't based on homeschoolers taking the test. They are typically nationally normed before the test is taken. So it isn't 13% homeschoolers being sent back.

 

 

Right, but presumably, not all homeschoolers are above average.  I have no idea how many homeschoolers there are in Colorado, let's say there's 10,000.  If 10% score less than this 13th percentile, and are sent back, we'd be hearing about it.

[...................]

Back in Band Camp...

 

Uhh I mean back in FL, the homeschool groups hired a certfied proctor(s) and they all went to a big church and everyone paid the 20 bucks and the kids all went to separate rooms by grade level with their little pencils and took the tests in a calm quiet atmosphere with a disinterested, fair 3rd party. 

 

I mean, If I could make a guess I'd say that 80% of homeschoolers do evaluations instead.  But some people prefer to see some numbers for their own purposes and it's usually more affordable too.

 

But....I can't imagine giving my kids a standardized test myself. It would even be difficult not to accidentally "cheat."

 

 

[G5052]

We've done both group testing and mom-proctored, and cheating was never something I even considered.

 

I tell the kid that there's going to be some stuff they don't know, and follow the instructions.  Send it off for grading.

 

Granted, mine have always tested well, but some years mom-proctored worked far better with our schedule, so we did it that way.  Mine also tend to work faster than most. Doing it myself means 4-5 hours total over a few days versus two long mornings requiring getting them up, fed, and hauled to the testing location during the week. And the results are just about the same whether I proctor or have someone else do that.

 

Our county is fine with using the SAT or ACT for standardized testing, so I hang up my testing hat when those days come.  And yes, getting up on a Saturday isn't fun either, but then it's done and it also works for dual enrollment admission as well as college admissions. 

 

In the long run, cheating on testing hurts those involved, but of course it happens.

[boscopup]

Right, but presumably, not all homeschoolers are above average. I have no idea how many homeschoolers there are in Colorado, let's say there's 10,000. If 10% score less than this 13th percentile, and are sent back, we'd be hearing about it.

Homeschoolers are a self-selected group, and the kids are getting a one-on-one education, making it easier for even LD kids to do better. I would assume the norms include all kids, including those coming from homes that would never choose homeschooling (eg, crack head single mom). I would expect the kids coming from homes where the parent(s) doesn't(don't) care about education are likely the ones to score in the bottom 13%. I'd guess that the self-selected homeschoolers are more likely to be close to average, or at least above 13%. I know many homeschooled kids. I don't think any of them would score 13% or lower. They certainly aren't all above average, but most of them are at least average. 13% is well below average.

 

Also, as a PP Colorado resident posted already, they don't send a kid back to school for scoring low once, and special needs kids (who might legitimately score that low while making progress) are handled differently.

[Hunter]

My boys took their tests at the library, by someone hired and paid for by the school board. I don't think it's common for parents to be able to administer tests that are going to determine future permission to homeschool.

 

Public school first grade teachers are given a lot of leeway, because it's ridiculous to expect 1st graders to accurately get their answers into the right bubbles without coaching. And large portions are read aloud to the student, especially the science and social studies. The OP's friend may be remembering her own 1st grade testing, which was likely before the schools were being tested and held accountable. Back then the tests were more about getting accurate information about the individual student, for the student's sake.

 

I very clearly remember being taught how to fill in the bubbles and being told that it was important to use the correct bubble for the correct question, but that if the teacher saw a long string of correct answers, one or two bubbles below of above where they were supposed to be, she could erase and put them where they were supposed to be.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with a Waldorf style education. I think most school boards would approve an initially low testing Waldorf homeschool. Waldorf is a lot of work and expense and obviously not educational neglect, and has proven to catch up. I can see it occasionally being a problem that school boards react negatively to a Waldorf student that tests lower, but I think it's rare.

 

The reason most states don't require testing until 3rd grade is that it's pretty much impossible to test these young children without "cheating". And late bloomers are so common that judging a homeschool off of early test scores isn't efficient.

[Hunter]

And as for homeschool credits, back before all this testing, "high school" was what teenagers did, and credits were awarded for the work that students did. There wasn't a one-sized-fits-all credit based on what was needed to enter a top 1% school. If a student wasn't ready for algebra they were awarded a credit for "basic math". A credit meant a student had done work.

 

Some people haven't changed from that oldschool preY2K thinking.

[Ellie]

Ironically, I think HSLDA would be the first one lined up to make such a law.  NY regs are what they are because of HSLDA. 

 

 

I disagree. And I suspect that the reason NY regs are what they are is that educrats in NY wanted even more control, and this was a compromise.

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, the K-2 standardized tests I know of are mostly read to the child, so maybe that's what the mom meant?

 

My story on "helping" with testing-when I gave the ELE last year, I did it at the library even though it can be teacher/parent given. None of the parents had any trouble stepping back and letting the kids work, didn't even ask to see the test book, etc-but ALL the parents wanted to double check the answer sheet. Apparently we all trust our kids to do Latin, but question whether they'll remember to write their name on the paper :).

[Slartibartfast]

http://hsislegal.com/2013/03/hslda_no_favors/

 

I will work on finding more articles.  If you read down a ways it says that HSLDA is responsible for crafting the regulations in NY and PA.  I have read that in other places as well. 

 

http://homeedmag.com/HEM/185/sotch.php

[Slartibartfast]

My state has different options for homeschooling. One of those options does require state testing but the others do not.

 

Some parents still choose to get testing. Parents can sign their kids up to take the tests with other kids, as far as I am aware it is usually a third party. I don't believe parents can administer the tests. There are many places around here where kids can take the tests.

 

Dd took her test at the local library with several other homeschoolers.

[...................]

http://homeedmag.com/HEM/185/sotch.php

 

 

This article in and of itself is worse than the original, perhaps overblown HSLDA article.  Just because we have familial, moral, and logical and even religious foundations inherently granted in the constitution, does not mean that homeschooling was perfectly legal!  Homeschoolers have much more OPEN freedom now than 30 years ago and I'm sorry, it is largely because of HSLDA and also local lobbyists.  It's better to have OPEN recognized, documented freedom to homeschool, and perhaps have the necessity of taking a test, (because HSLDA got involved and compromises were made), than to live in perpetual fear that you are doing something that is not completely recognized by current statutes and regulations.

 

All that to say, just because it made things harder in NY as far as regulations, doesn't mean it's a bad thing...

[December]

I think the purpose of standardized testing for homeschoolers is to give the parent some idea of where their child is and serve as a wake up call to parents whose child is behind.  This would still be accomplished if the parent was cheating, because they would see what their child should be able to accomplish based on state guidelines.  If a parent helping was really such a big deal, they would require the tests be given by proctors, but they don't, I think because they figure either way parents will still get an idea of how their children measure up to those in public school.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

Our county is fine with using the SAT or ACT for standardized testing, so I hang up my testing hat when those days come.  And yes, getting up on a Saturday isn't fun either, but then it's done and it also works for dual enrollment admission as well as college admissions. 

 

In the long run, cheating on testing hurts those involved, but of course it happens.

This needs to be said.  At the end of the day, the testing for college is the big equalizer of both public school and homeschool kids.  If you have consistently cheated in some way, you won't get scores commensurate with your lower grade testing.  (Though there are other factors like test anxiety, LDs etc.)

 

 I'm like you - I've never even considered figuring out a way to cheat on tests even for my dd with LDs.  She shows progress - she's good.  Cheating wouldn't help her personally and it wouldn't help us to be able to keep homeschooling her.  Honestly, I would worry a lot more about the homeschoolers who do not put in the time to actually teach their kids than about homeschoolers who might want to cheat on a standardized test that doesn't really mean much in the long run.  

[Leav97]

/snip

 

But....I can't imagine giving my kids a standardized test myself. It would even be difficult not to accidentally "cheat."

 

I've done it.  I wanted accurate results.  I wouldn't be doing the kids any favors by cheating for them.  It did help me find a couple of test taking strategies they needed to learn.  

 

If you answer "D" 6 times in a row, something is wrong.

If you finish a section and either have a leftover question on the scantron or an extra question, something is wrong.

If you scan through your answers and you picked "A" for 75% of the answers, something is wrong.

It's OK to skip a question and come back if you have extra time.

It's OK to pick an answer even if you have no clue *this depends on the test.  there are some test that penalize for wrong answers.

[Ellie]

http://homeedmag.com/HEM/185/sotch.php

 

I would not depend on this organization for unbiased reporting of HSLDA activities. Its people have been hostile against HSLDA from the beginning, and they look for every opportunity to malign HSLDA.

[gardening momma]

 

 

But....I can't imagine giving my kids a standardized test myself. It would even be difficult not to accidentally "cheat."

This is similar to saying "I can't imagine homeschooling my own child. I'm not qualified. I wouldn't be able to do as good of a job as a trained teacher/professional."

 

I administer my own kids' standardized tests (it's allowed here). It is not difficult to not cheat, even accidentally. 

 

And in regard to some of the other posts regarding helping students, the test I use, and I'm sure this is standard, allows the administrator to help students with technical aspects of the test (not content). That would be things like filling in bubbles correctly (inside the lines, dark enough, etc), writing their name, and so on. I have copies of our tests (it instructs me to make copies), but I don't have a copy of the instructions. I'm pretty sure there was something about helping with technical aspects of the questions, as well. I can't recall what that was, but I do follow the instructions closely and do not give my kids hints as to how they should answer.

[gardening momma]

I would not depend on this organization for unbiased reporting of HSLDA activities. Its people have been hostile against HSLDA from the beginning, and they look for every opportunity to malign HSLDA.

:iagree:

I have read about 3 issues of HEM (maybe more?), and I found it to be:

1. Mostly unschooling

2. Antagonistic toward traditional/organized/parent-led homeschooling

3. Full of spelling/grammar errors. I had an old issue from a few years ago and don't recall these kinds of errors. Then several months ago I picked up a copy from my library. The editorial indicated that they were just getting the magazine back into print after a period of time out of print. I thought maybe they were still finding their spelling/grammar groove (that one had a lot of errors). The next issue was just as bad.