mirth Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Especially as the Shadow self pertains to people you dislike? The theory is (and I am sure there are better experts who can more clearly elaborate as I only learned about this theory an hour ago) that if you think about a few people you dislike and write a couple of words to describe their attributes which you dislike ... e.g. Beth - haughty Linda - selfish and rigid Glen - boring and conformist … then these are the attributes that you possess and know exist in your shadow self that you abhor (about yourself). Here are a couple of clarifying quotes: Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves. — Carl Jung If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn’t part of ourselves doesn’t disturb us. — Hermann Hesse If your therapist believes in this, then would they say that the ideal/perfect person literally doesn't have issues with anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I haven't read Jung, however, there's nothing like seeing the unlikable parts of yourself displayed in other people. :glare: IMO, it doesn't hold true for everything or everyone or every attribute. There are some attributes of others I don't like because that attribute in someone else, not me, has affected me negatively previously. I may notice it more because there is something unconsciously protective in me sensing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiMi 4under3 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Yes!! I find that the traits that annoy me the most in my kids and husband, are things I'm struggling with myself. Nothing major, just bad habits and such... I butt heads with eldest DD because she's most like me, I've realized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Yes, which is one of the reasons I try to avoid petty judgements and a sour outlook. People who look at the world with scorn or always seem to dislike others tend to despise themselves deep down, in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Critterfixer Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I don't know about the theory, but I have noticed that as I become more accepting and understanding of the people who I dislike or have things about them I dislike, the more I seem to be able to accept and enjoy being me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Yes!! I find that the traits that annoy me the most in my kids and husband, are things I'm struggling with myself. Nothing major, just bad habits and such... I butt heads with eldest DD because she's most like me, I've realized. I have the same problem with my oldest DS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Stranger Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Yah....this is a bunch of bunk. Sometimes, people with similar personalities don't get along. It happens. But? I can think of a few people I've actually seriously truly HATED in my life, and it was usually because they were mean, awful, vindictive human beings. Pretty sure I'm none of the three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Especially as the Shadow self pertains to people you dislike? The theory is (and I am sure there are better experts who can more clearly elaborate as I only learned about this theory an hour ago) that if you think about a few people you dislike and write a couple of words to describe their attributes which you dislike ... e.g. Beth - haughty Linda - selfish and rigid Glen - boring and conformist … then these are the attributes that you possess and know exist in your shadow self that you abhor (about yourself). Here are a couple of clarifying quotes: Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves. — Carl Jung If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn’t part of ourselves doesn’t disturb us. — Hermann Hesse If your therapist believes in this, then would they say that the ideal/perfect person literally doesn't have issues with anyone? I don't believe most people abhor themselves. I think they like themselves too much, me included. I think to some extent we all worship ourselves, but often feel mortified and guilty over that fact. So, we go out of our way to prove it isn't so. I think that the appearance of hatred of oneself is decieving, we are covering up what we don't want others to see. I can see where the idea "shadow self" would explain this phenomenon, but I don't think it explains everything. For example, I know someone with these attributes: flighty, late for most functions, silly, random, jokester. This things tend to irritate me and I know for a definite fact, they are not part of my self. But what they do is highlight parts of myself that I don't like all that much, like the tendencies to judge, be rigid, over-think things, and the inability to "loosen up." So, I agree that what irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves, but I don't agree that what I hate in another person is necessarily what I hate in myself. There are plenty of things about other people that disturb me that are not part of my make up. Like not closing one's mouth while chewing. ;) I also don't believe perfection exists, so I have become more willing to forgive myself and others for their *percieved* faults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 … then these are the attributes that you possess and know exist in your shadow self that you abhor (about yourself). How awful to abhor something about one's own self. I don't mean that flippantly, but to be a target of hate, disgust, revulsion, is a pretty serious deal, I think. But to know the one putting out that target is yourself is, in my opinion, profoundly sad. You can't escape your own worst enemy that way. You can't escape the one who is disgusted the most by you. Your own thoughts are constantly being intercepted for reasons to find guilt. It's no way to live, and even if it's only in small measure, it can be mentally exhausting. I prefer to think about unwanted attributes as being unwanted because they're ineffective (they don't solve a problem, or they do but present new, otherwise avoidable problems), and/or they're not socially appropriate (they alienate you from the social circles you desire to be a part of). In this way, there's no need for feeling abhorant, just a need for identifying and solving a problem (complex though it might be). To answer your question, no I don't agree with this idea simply because it's as vague as reading a horoscope. Haughty? Selfish? Rigid? Boring? Conformist? These are such vague classifications that one can find reason to attribute to themselves if they have a mind to. Here's an example of how this was explored more objectively. In 1948, psychologist Bertram R. Forer gave a personality test to his students. He told his students they were each receiving a unique personality analysis that was based on the test's results and to rate their analysis on how well it applied to themselves. In reality, each received the same sketch, consisting of the following items: You have a great need for other people to like and admire you. You have a tendency to be critical of yourself. You have a great deal of unused capacity which you have not turned to your advantage. While you have some personality weaknesses, you are generally able to compensate for them. Your sexual adjustment has presented problems for you. Disciplined and self-controlled outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You pride yourself as an independent thinker and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. You have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be pretty unrealistic. Security is one of your major goals in life. On average, the students rated its accuracy as 4.26 on a scale of 0 (very poor) to 5 (excellent). Only after the ratings were turned in was it revealed that each student had received identical copies assembled by Forer from a newsstand astrology book. The quote contains a number of statements that could apply equally to anyone. wiki I think this Jungian theory works in much the same way. It's vague enough to describe oneself, and subjectively validated because the only confirmation is personal opinion. I would argue that the reason an individual may find Beth to be "haughty" is because Beth exhibits certain behavioral trends that are not as compatible as other behavioral trends. We can't relate to everything in everyone, so hearing more about things with which we don't relate in friends with whom we share other common values, just means those unrelatable ones will be more obvious. It doesn't mean she's actually a haughty person. And it doesn't mean the observer (Beth's friend) is secretly haughty herself. It just means Beth's friend can't relate to Beth in some circumstances as well as she can in others. If your therapist believes in this, then would they say that the ideal/perfect person literally doesn't have issues with anyone? If my therapist believes in this, I'd wonder if s/he is relying on outmoded pseudoscience to guide me in addressing those things in my life that feel overwhelming. Perhaps this is just a shortcut way of suggesting that you shouldn't be so critical of others, or that you should turn your analysis inward on yourself and address those behaviors and thoughts that inspire them. I don't know, but I would not have much confidence in a therapist that relies on this belief as a reliable tool for emotional well-being. Feelings and behavior are complex. Simple answers have never been reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trulycrabby Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 I think it is an elegant theory, but no, I don't believe it is a valid one. There are a lot of different reasons to dislike someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise in Florida Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 It is one of those things that has an unspoken truth to it but that truth may or may not be accurately explained or useful. I have only heard about Shadow-self second hand and the topic is on my list of things to investigate, just haven't gotten to it. Yes, the traits we have that we do not like (hate yourself is an overstatement) are things we do not like in others. Partly because we just don't like them :laugh: But partly because it is a reminder of ourselves and our failure to stop or address the issue. For example, when I see a mother busily shopping while her child is trying to tell her something (doesn't matter if it is important or not in this context), I feel regret for the opportunities I may have missed with my children. That doesn't mean I hate the way I raised my children, I think I did a pretty good job, and I truly enjoy them as adults. But I judge that mother and I judge her more harshly because this was something I know I have done and it pains me to be reminded. That is a small, relatively non-complex example, the other issues I contemplate are too tangled to express cleanly in a single post. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 If your therapist believes in this, then would they say that the ideal/perfect person literally doesn't have issues with anyone? I'd think such a person was broken because there are traits and behaviours that a person *should* have a problem with. I prefer Jung's idea (I think it was Jung) about having to shine a light into the dark recesses of your character so the monsters don't grow in there. I know a couple of people who seem to be so afraid of what they might find, that they never look, and really, their avoidance techniques are the problems. If they dropped them, they'd be able to see there's nothing particularly bad or scary behind. You may have more fun reading The Philosophers Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momacacia Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Some might even say this is why women don't get along with their MILs, considering men often marry someone a lot like their mother. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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