Talk me into cursive for 2nd or 3rd grade, or not at all

[RosieCotton]

Why cursive?

 

Is it truly necessary with all the typing we are doing now and very little writing?

 

I go back and forth. Some days I think - yes it's mandatory. Other days, maybe we don't need it.

 

Some public schools are dropping it, and usually for me that's a push for us TO do something.

 

This is the deal. I have a boy who is going to be 7 in June. He has struggled with ball and stick. His printing is just ok, and has shown some improvement with our practise this last year. But I think we've practised alot, certainly WAY more than with his older brother.

 

Now if I switch him up in 2nd grade to cursive, just when he is starting to get the hang of ball stick, how frustrating for a 7 year old!

Yes now I see the logic for starting with cursive in the first place - but I cannot go back with him. Is he young enough to switch him out now and just push thru it?

 

I heard on one of SWB's lectures we revert back to what we are taught first. So he will most likely revert back to ball and stick no matter I decide to do here. My writing now is a blend of cursive and ball stick.

 

So if you were in my place, what would you do?

Interested to hear your arguments for or against cursive. :)

And which style you would choose in this situation and why?

 

 

 

 

[blondeviolin]

I would because it's important to me. But, outside of that, it might help his printing and letter formation and handwriting.

[boscopup]

I taught my oldest in 3rd and continued in 4th. We never could get it good enough to progress in writing at all, so it's taken a backseat. He can work in manuscript and practice a bit of cursive each day. He can read cursive and sign his name in cursive. I'm fine with that.

 

Talking to a friend with kids in public school, they said they only spent one year on cursive.

 

I'm not yet decided to do with the other kids. My middle son is still trying to print neatly, and when we've tried cursive, it's been completely illegible. So we'll keep going with print for now.

 

My youngest will probably learn cursive in first grade.

 

I really could care less if my boys print long term. I don't know very many grown men who write in cursive, so it's not a hill I'll die on. They need to be able to read cursive, absolutely, but writing it long term, nope.

[greyseal]

We had chronic letter reversals and I was tired of droning on about it. I switched her to cursive and it's been pain-free. My DD was a young public K-er, so she began cursive just after she turned 6. She has a decent hand for a first grader, after about 9 months of practice. About as good as I was in 3rd. I plan to start my son with cursive next time around.

 

We use Logic of English for language arts, and here's their "teach cursive" rationale:

http://www.logicofenglish.com/2-uncategorised/122-why-teach-cursive-first

[Ellie]

Why cursive?

 

Is it truly necessary with all the typing we are doing now and very little writing?

 

I go back and forth. Some days I think - yes it's mandatory. Other days, maybe we don't need it.

 

Some public schools are dropping it, and usually for me that's a push for us TO do something.

 

This is the deal. I have a boy who is going to be 7 in June. He has struggled with ball and stick. His printing is just ok, and has shown some improvement with our practise this last year. But I think we've practised alot, certainly WAY more than with his older brother.

 

Now if I switch him up in 2nd grade to cursive, just when he is starting to get the hang of ball stick, how frustrating for a 7 year old!

Yes now I see the logic for starting with cursive in the first place - but I cannot go back with him. Is he young enough to switch him out now and just push thru it?

 

I heard on one of SWB's lectures we revert back to what we are taught first. So he will most likely revert back to ball and stick no matter I decide to do here. My writing now is a blend of cursive and ball stick.

 

So if you were in my place, what would you do?

Interested to hear your arguments for or against cursive. :)

And which style you would choose in this situation and why?

 

Of course cursive is necessary. It is how English has been written for hundreds of years, and other English-speaking countries still use it. I see no reason for American children to be less educated.

 

Your ds will not always be able to use a computer/word processor. He needs to know both cursive and manuscript so he'll be prepared for all contingencies.

 

By the way, "ball and stick" is a term invented by Scott Foresman when they came out with their D'Nelian handwriting; it makes printing less than desirable, doesn't it? Good marketing. :-)

 

Properly taught, manuscript doesn't have to be that difficult. It is one reason I like Spalding so much: explicit instructions on how to write each letter. Zaner Bloser is also excellent that way.

 

So, yes, I would continue with manuscript, probably for another year, because he will always need to be able to write legibly (most forms he fills out will say "please print"), and introduce cursive when he's 8.

 

[Doodlebug]

I'm in the thick of it with you, so I can only share my experience thus far and why I think cursive is important.  :)

 

I want my son to learn cursive so 1) he can read it, and 2) he can write with it if he chooses.  Reading it, obvious.  Choosing a style of physical writing that suits the occasion, or one's mood, is a form of expression I consider valuable.  My husband, who does not choose cursive on an average day, wrote dozens of letters to me the year he was in London, most of them in cursive.  He chose a beautiful style of writing because it suited his mood, and it conveyed something to me -- he took great care.  My son may ball and stick his way through letters, but I do want it to be his choice of expression... not the only option he's limited to.  I hope that makes sense. 

 

Like you, I really hoped to start cursive with our son in first grade.  But handwriting was very tricky for him and he just wasnt there.  So, we continued with manuscript all the way through second grade (this past school year).  I have seen huge improvement in his handwriting this year.  He seems to care how his writing looks, and that is a big shift. 

 

So, here I am with a newly turned third grader who is just starting cursive (our summer activity).  It wasnt the path I would've chosen, but I think it was very much the right path to take.  I started him in the first New American Cursive workbook a month ago (as suggested by members here), and he is doing beautifully.  Today he wrote the word "lion" and it was gorgeous.  My rough and tumble handwriting averse boy did it!   

 

I hope that's helpful to you!  Best of luck!

 

Stella

[MinivanMom]

I wouldn't feel like I had educated my children well if I failed to teach them to read and write cursive. They may choose to type in the future, but I won't deliberately limit their options.

 

For what it's worth, my son had terrible handwriting; his printing was completely illegible. I started teaching him cursive at 7, and he now completes all his work in a very neat and legible cursive. I'm glad I stuck with it.

[RosieCotton]

Thanks for all the great responses. !

 

I never had plans not to teach cursive, but I wanted to throw the carcass out there for any takers as I enjoy the back and forth I see on the boards on a hot spot topic. :)

 

We may try some cursive work over the summer and see how it goes, but there's no rush I guess and we'll get it done for him. He is a little frustrated right now and that is what bothers me.

 

I hadn't checked really into which products I might want to get for him (or free printable resources etc.).

 

And with my 4 year old daughter I guess now the heat is on so I'll start her with cursive. She has done a few months of printing but nothing too major yet.

 

Thanks for the advice!!!

[matrips]

I had two third grade boys this year and teaching cursive was easy compared to teaching printing. They grasped it quickly and enjoyed the 'fast' writing. Even though they were slower with it! They had been looking forward to it. I write in cursive usually, their grandparents and arts on their bday cards write in cursive...

 

We used hwot for printing and then the same for cursive. I bought some other styles to use as practice workbooks for cursive next year. I don't think they need another year of formal cursive since it was such an easy transition for them this year. I don't care what style they use. If they want to experiment with the prettier stuff, great. If they stick with hwot, that's fine too.

[Mswin15]

I taught my 2nd grade dd cursive early in this school year and I think I'll go ahead with my son who will be in 1st grade next year. There are several studies that suggest that cursive is related to many important developmental functions in the brain but besides that there are two reason I am teaching cursive.

 

1. It is difficult. It takes a lot of practice and concentration. It takes repetition and precision. By doing something difficult they are being prepared for the other tasks, that are certainly going to come their way, that will require similar skills. The journey and process of learning is valuable.

 

2. It is beautiful. I want my children to value things simply because they are beautiful. I understand we live in a digital world but there are times when a handwritten note is more appropriate than a text or email (an increasingly rare). I want them to see the same lesson in learning cursive as you learn climbing a mountain - just to see the sunrise. It is beautiful and rare and not many people are willing to do the hard work to get to the top and see the beauty. I want them to value hard work for beauty.

 

My daughter wrote a beautiful poem about spring a few months ago. She carefully wrote it in cursive, in pencil then copied it in black marker. Then she illustrated around the poem daffodils and blue birds. Y'all - it was so beautiful. It took time and effort but to see the end product was something to behold, I'm telling you. It was such a wonderful reminder of why I'm doing this.

[RosieCotton]

My daughter wrote a beautiful poem about spring a few months ago. She carefully wrote it in cursive, in pencil then copied it in black marker. Then she illustrated around the poem daffodils and blue birds. Y'all - it was so beautiful. It took time and effort but to see the end product was something to behold, I'm telling you. It was such a wonderful reminder of why I'm doing this.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and experience.

 

This poem sounds wonderful - would you be comfortable sharing it with us?

I'd love to see it :)

[Dory]

My youngest ds has had his manuscript improve as I've taught him cursive. His fine motor skills made a big jump in improvement as well. When I had my dd see a psychologist for a psycho-educational evaluation, she praised me BIG time over my dd knowing cursive and talked about how she finds it tragic that so few children are taught it now and all the benefits it has to the brain development and that now children won't be able to read what is written by the generation before them.

 

My youngest ds stopped reversing letters when he learned manuscript as well.

[Hunter]

There are different types of cursive.

 

Most of the time I have taught a hybrid. I have taught Spalding's lowercase letters but retain the uppercase manuscript. Spalding's lowercase cursive is just mostly joining of the ball and stick vertical manuscript. It looks fine with uppercase manuscript.

 

Now adays we write so many more acronyms and need to address envelopes and fill out forms in all caps. Practice of manuscript uppercase is essential. Also some of my students have LDs that interfere with the multitsking required of writing in cursive. Students cannot write well in cursive until they are spelling in syllables. The manuscript caps give them an unjoined handwriting to revert back to if they get into a stressful situation where they need to take notes fast.

 

Unless a student is pushing to learn cursive, or you teach cursive first as your default method, it's best to wait until a student is spelling well, before switching them to joined writing. 

 

I tried abandoning cursive-first. Because the cursive I teach is just joining of the Spalding manuscript, I think doing manuscript first actually prepares the student better for cursive, than starting cursive right away. They can focus on slant and formation, without being distracted by the multitasking of the joins. Students rebelled though. They are in a rush to get right to cursive.

 

Are you looking at slanted or vertical cursive? If using slanted with a leftie, will the slant be forward or backwards? Will the tall letters and tails be twice or three times the height of the main part of the letters? What type of caps are you looking at? Fancy, plain or retaining manuscript?

[Hunter]

You can see Spalding cursive here.

http://www.mychandlerschools.org/Page/10268

 

Don Potter has some great free slanted curricula on his website.

http://www.donpotter.net/education_pages/handwriting.html

[Hunter]

The Escolar font isn't that different from what I do, and is a very nice free font for making copywork.

http://www.edu.xunta.es/centros/ceipfrions/es/node/101

[kristi26]

We are doing cursive this year in third grade.  I did it with my older boys when they were in fourth grade (for MDS) and sixth grade (I think, for ODS).  I want her to start it earlier and get it out of the way.  I think it's important to learn as there are too many kids that can't sign their own name, which is still an important skill in our world! Just my two cents...

[Walking-Iris]

My oldest started learning cursive while he was in OT, a full year before I thought to start it. Learning cursive remedied a lot of his handwriting issues. 

 

It's important. 

 

I wouldn't skip teaching it for a million reasons. Regardless of what "society" is doing around me. 

 

I used HWOT and also a Zaner Bloser book  and that was all. I don't expect him to write everything in cursive, and he's been working on typing, but I do ask for the spelling list to be in cursive to continue practicing.

 

He also has been making a riddle book in cursive. I teach it explicitly at first, then I just let him practice in various ways. His name should always be in cursive.

[Mswin15]

Thanks for your thoughts and experience.

 

This poem sounds wonderful - would you be comfortable sharing it with us?

I'd love to see it :)

 

Hey! I've tried three times and my files are too big for some reason :( I have no idea how to make them smaller!

[Hunter]

The cursif font is an example of tall letters and tails that are 3 times as tall as the main parts of the letters. Most modern and plainer hands are only twice as tall. These are all things that need to be considered when choosing a hand.

 

 

[Hunter]

Peterson is very explicitly taught, but is so stretched out, that is only a few words fit on a line.

 

And here is the backward slant of the DKL font, designed for lefties.

[HappyClassical]

My two cents as a mom who hasn't had to teach cursive yet. My daughter is six and her handwriting is quite nice. I make her work on it. I myself write almost exclusively in cursive. I find it easier on my hands and just feel it is the proper way to write. My husband, who has a lot of influence on how and what we teach the kids considers not teaching children to write cursive an disgrace to written language, which he prizes greatly as a man who spent 10 years in school studying it. I think not teaching because it may not be used very often as adults, is like saying our children shouldn't read Shakespeare.

 

From a practicality standpoint - when I was in college and graduate school; I took notes by hand rather than typing. I did it in cursive because it was neater, easier, and faster than manuscript. I took notes by hand because rather than my laptop (which I often did bring to class), because I feel like when you handwrite, you retain much more than typing.

 

I learned to write cursive in the late 2nd grade and mostly 3rd grade in the mid nineties Florida public school system. So, I don't agree that we necessarily revert back to manuscript if taught a little late.

[audreyinboston]

I just taught my kids cursive from the beginning.  It was easier than having to teach writing twice.  It was just fine for my first graders--frankly easier to do "swooping" writing than to try to get super-straight lines with manuscript.  Also, my kids figured out how to "print" capital letters just fine on their own--I never taught them other than to occasionally correct a "backward" letter, so I saw no point in spending more time on printing.  Those times that you occasionally need to print on a form as an adult are not worth spending several years on. 

 

OTOH, there are many times as an adult that I needed to be able to quickly write notes and that is exactly what cursive is all about.  It was specifically designed for the pre-computer days when people wrote things by hand, and it remains the best, fastest way to do it.  So learning to do it now is still important for the many reasons listed by others: ability to read it, ability to write quickly when you don't have a keyboard, prevent reversed letters (especially important for those who struggle with reading/dyslexia), and finally, because it looks like grown-up writing (which was very important to my little guys).

[katilac]

He's 6. imo, if he can write out a short, legible sentence, he isn't 'struggling' over much. Learning to write is hard work! 

 

Certainly you should teach him cursive. We did it in a fairly simple way - I didn't have the patience for lots of practice of certain strokes, and then lots of practice combining those strokes - but they both have a neat enough hand, and can pretty it up when they desire. People who go the full monty and write like the founding fathers have my admiration, heh. We mostly just did copy work: quotes, Latin sayings, history facts, and whatever else could serve double duty. 

 

They might seem fairly ubiquitous these days, but one does not always have a computing device on hand. Plus, one looks a bit stupid when faced with a note written in cursive that can't be read! What if it's from his boss, or, worse yet, his girlfriend? You can't be asking someone to read a love letter for you! 

 

  My husband, who has a lot of influence on how and what we teach the kids considers not teaching children to write cursive an disgrace to written language, which he prizes greatly as a man who spent 10 years in school studying it.  

 

 A man after my own heart  :001_wub:

[raganfamily]

We used Teaching Cursive by Linda Corson It is not a copywork book, it gives basic directions for cursive.  It has worked well with my two youngest.  

 

I have seen my older son (who used Zaner Bloser cursive) look through it, because he wanted to make sure his signature was well written. 

 

It doesn't take long to teach it and it helps them with reading cursive.

 

 

 

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

I am a strong believer in teaching cursive and think the public schools that don't are doing an injustice to our children.  When I was in third grade, I was in public school that taught D'Nealian after I had learned cursive in private school in 2nd grade, and it totally screwed up my handwriting to write in a blend.  My husband writes completely in cursive.  There are many, many reasons I believe cursive writing and penmanship are important, but here are a few:

 

-No matter how much typing is socially acceptable, your children will need to write handwritten notes at some point.  Take example, a job interview thank you note.  It leaves a horrible impression to an employer if you write a thank you note in ball and stick.  As a former HR director, I know firsthand of these experiences.

-Your child may work for someone who writes cursive or deal with people's handwriting, and they need to know how to read cursive.  My mother and grandmother still write me greeting cards in cursive.  I processed the offering at my church and had to decipher scribbles on envelopes.  I used to be an executive assistant and had to interpret my boss' cursive writing.  Your child may just have an old school boss someday.

-It promotes fine motor skills.

-It is faster to take notes and write in a fluid, cursive style rather than ball and stick or maybe even typing.  Yes, we all have technology nowadays and could write notes on tablets, but they may need to take notes in college, and cursive is way faster.

 

I prefer the more traditional style of cursive, and after MUCH deliberation, I settled on the PenTime cursive style.  I have my second grader do 2-3 pages a week.  He is a reluctant writer, but he was SO excited to finally learn cursive.  Their transition book is what we used this year, and it is half manuscript and switches to cursive halfway through.  It has cute nature sayings and dot to dots, and it is inexpensive.  My son finds this to be fun and does it willingly.  My younger son can't wait until he is old enough to do it (he is in preschool.)  Why skimp on something that is so painless and takes such little time?

 

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

Susan Wise Bauer JUST posted this article on her facebook page about the benefits of handwriting.  I just had to post it here as it fits what we're discussing.  Who knows?  Maybe she's lurking on our conversation?  

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/science/whats-lost-as-handwriting-fades.html?hp&_r=1

[RosieCotton]

Thanks for all the additional replies. :)

 

I'm leaning towards ZB cursive, and the books look nice and more motivating for the boys than what I have currently (free net printables). But I also admit to curriculum hoarding and overbuying, so I am HAPPY to look at every suggestion. Yes! I'll check out Pen Time this week.

 

I can actually "see" my younger son's mind working as he writes, and I want to give him every opportunity to further those important neural connections.

 

We do alot verbally, and have now begun adding the writing component more to cement things, and it's working well.

 

And OH - about the FB article post - that would be so cool, SWB lurking on my insignifigant little post here. :hurray:

 

 

 

[sweetpea3829]

It's 12:45am and I am sitting here eating ice cream, but I REALLY need to get to bed. So...I didn't read all of the responses...lol.  

 

Our plan is to wait until all four of our kids are solid in print handwriting, and then we'll sit down, as a family, and learn cursive over a summer.  

 

I want them to definitely be able to read cursive, and I think its important for them to at least be able to write their signature in cursive.  

 

That said...my oldest child has some visual-motor coordination issues...and I'm not sure that she'll do well with the loops of cursive....so we'll see.