Rosie_0801 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 They were first called "Christians" in Antioch. (Acts 11:26) 'And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.' So it's not like I have a choice. Catholics are very proud to call themselves Catholic. I don't think they see themselves as just a 'denomination'. I was replying to Albeto who didn't mention Catholicism, but Catholism is behind the persecution of the Jews. Which is why I used quotation marks. I was trying to say it indirectly in an attempt to be a little discreet knowing that it wouldn't go down well. 1. It is very strange to claim you have no choice as to whether or not you identify as Christian. 2. That's still no excuse for the rude quotation marks. 3. Of course the Catholics are a denomination. 4. They know that. 5. If you want to say it's the Catholics who are the persecutors of the Jews, that's impolite but less impolite than your quotation marks which, whether you like it or not, imply everyone who is not you aren't real Christians. 6. The Crusades reflect on nobody alive today, even if they are Catholic. 7. The Pope is actually pretty big on interfaith calmness. 8. Eliana isn't the only one around here who knows why she uses the X instead of writing in full. Pretty much anyone who has been around here long enough to read many of her posts on religious topics would know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 They were first called "Christians" in Antioch. (Acts 11:26) 'And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.' So it's not like I have a choice. Catholics are very proud to call themselves Catholic. I don't think they see themselves as just a 'denomination'. I was replying to Albeto who didn't mention Catholicism, but Catholism is behind the persecution of the Jews. Which is why I used quotation marks. I was trying to say it indirectly in an attempt to be a little discreet knowing that it wouldn't go down well. As was Martin Luther. You can start here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teannika Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 So when you put Christian in quotes ("Christian") are you referring to anyone who self-identifies as a Christian but doesn't hold to your specific beliefs, or are you just referring to Catholics. And Orthodox. And Mormons. And.....? It seemed that you were inferring that these people (whoever they are) who call themselves Christian aren't truly Christian. My belief is that anyone can be saved, in any denomination, and then become 'In Christ' and a Christian. (Just attending a Christian church doesn't mean that you are automatically one (in my belief system)) I don't judge any individual as being a true Christian or not as only God knows and sees the heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I have to say that I have never seen Christians write it with an x either. I also don't write xmas, the same as you don't Jasperstone. So it would depend upon Eliana's own reason for writing it like that, which only she can know. Actually, no. Many of us know Eliana's purpose for writing the name of God in that fashion and highly respect her reason for doing so. She is actually one of the most respected posters on this board and many of us outside of her faith have learned much from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 My belief is that anyone can be saved, in any denomination, and then become 'In Christ' and a Christian. (Just attending a Christian church doesn't mean that you are automatically one (in my belief system)) I don't judge any individual as being a true Christian or not as only God knows and sees the heart. Oh really? Well I think it says somewhere in the Bible about avoiding the appearance of evil. Or that might be the Quran. Probably it's both. So you might consider cleaning up your writing to avoid the appearance of judging who is and isn't a true Christian. Something you may be unaware of is a little saying we have around here- "Don't poke the Hive." You are poking the Hive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teannika Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 As was Martin Luther. You can start here. Oh no, now you are going to make me confess on the board that I don't see myself as a Protestant either. (I don't believe that there are only two options, Catholicism and Protestant.) Protestants still held on to some Catholic traditions, and never entirely let go of that system. Interesting about Martin Luther. I'm still looking at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I wasn't trying to make you confess anything. Only pointing out that anti-semitism run deep in Christianity and is still alive today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teannika Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Oh really? Well I think it says somewhere in the Bible about avoiding the appearance of evil. Or that might be the Quran. Probably it's both. So you might consider cleaning up your writing to avoid the appearance of judging who is and isn't a true Christian. Something you may be unaware of is a little saying we have around here- "Don't poke the Hive." You are poking the Hive. I'll try. But I would be lying if I said I was Catholic and included myself in their religion and saw it as true Christianity. It goes both ways that also. As I referred to earlier, Catholics have martyed Christians in the past. It's not one-sided. My comment is about a religion, not about any one individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teannika Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I wasn't trying to make you confess anything. Only pointing out that anti-semitism run deep in Christianity and is still alive today. I should clarify, I am not saying Anti-semitism doesn't exist within Christianity. I agree it does. But I am not owning it in my own belief system. My belief system doesn't hate and persecute Jews. Could it be understood that based on anti-semitism alone is one good reason why I don't wish to be associated with certain Christian belief systems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Oh no, now you are going to make me confess on the board that I don't see myself as a Protestant either. (I don't believe that there are only two options, Catholicism and Protestant.) Protestants still held on to some Catholic traditions, and never entirely let go of that system. Interesting about Martin Luther. I'm still looking at it. You wouldn't by any chance consider yourself part of the Restoration movement? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_Movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I should clarify, I am not saying Anti-semitism doesn't exist within Christianity. I agree it does. But I am not owning it in my own belief system. My belief system doesn't hate and persecute Jews. Your belief system encourages anti-semitism, regardless of whether you are or not, as has been made apparent in several of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I'll try. But I would be lying if I said I was Catholic and included myself in their religion and saw it as true Christianity. It goes both ways that also. As I referred to earlier, Catholics have martyed Christians in the past. It's not one-sided. My comment is about a religion, not about any one individual. We've been attending a Catholic parish for 18 months and I have not heard anyone there ever accuse any other denomination of not being true Christians. I have also never heard any of my Catholic friends ever make that accusation in my 37 years. My mind is boggled that anyone thinks they have the right to make that judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamaraby Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I'll try. But I would be lying if I said I was Catholic and included myself in their religion and saw it as true Christianity. It goes both ways that also. As I referred to earlier, Catholics have martyed Christians in the past. It's not one-sided. My comment is about a religion, not about any one individual. It's a logical fallacy - No True Scotsman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I'll try. But I would be lying if I said I was Catholic and included myself in their religion and saw it as true Christianity. It goes both ways that also. As I referred to earlier, Catholics have martyed Christians in the past. It's not one-sided. My comment is about a religion, not about any one individual. Catholics are Christians, Teannika. Of course it is just a denomination. It is absolutely not your place to determine if an entire denomination is Christian or not. That is what they are. It is how they self-identify. It is not really a matter of opinion, or what you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Could it be understood that based on anti-semitism alone is one good reason why I don't wish to be associated with certain Christian belief systems? Then find another label. Though, I must again remind you that calling yourself Christian will in no way make anyone think you are Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I don't see Teannika as being judgmental. What I believe she is trying to point out is that her Christianity isn't the same as mainstream organisation Christianity. She is outside the box of it. Just like homeschoolers that don't follow a pre- packaged curriculum are different to those who don't, and are free style etc... Sorry, it's a bad example, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I have to say that I have never seen Christians write it with an x either. I also don't write xmas, the same as you don't Jasperstone. So it would depend upon Eliana's own reason for writing it like that, which only she can know. Welcome to the world of classical education! Just because you have never seen Christians write Xtian or Xmas does not mean it is not done by Christians. Understanding Greek roots will show no harm is intended. My belief is that anyone can be saved, in any denomination, and then become 'In Christ' and a Christian. (Just attending a Christian church doesn't mean that you are automatically one (in my belief system)) I don't judge any individual as being a true Christian or not as only God knows and sees the heart. If you don't judge, why did you indicate that some believers are "Christians" as opposed to Christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I don't see Teannika as being judgmental. What I believe she is trying to point out is that her Christianity isn't the same as mainstream organisation Christianity. She is outside the box of it. Just like homeschoolers that don't follow a pre- packaged curriculum are different to those who don't, and are free style etc... Sorry, it's a bad example, I know. You've made it perfectly clear you agree with her, yet no one is reprimanding you. Why do you suppose that is? We already know she doesn't care to align with whatever she considers to be mainstream Christianity. Nothing she can say is going to convince us of that any more than we are already convinced. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Jesus gave us that title. The followers of Him are entitled to use that name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I don't see Teannika as being judgmental. What I believe she is trying to point out is that her Christianity isn't the same as mainstream organisation Christianity. She is outside the box of it. Just like homeschoolers that don't follow a pre- packaged curriculum are different to those who don't, and are free style etc... Sorry, it's a bad example, I know. Yes, but she doesn't get to make her own box and proclaim that anyone outside of her box is a not a true christian. Much like homeschoolers, one sect of homeschooling does not get to proclaim they are the only ones homeschooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Jesus gave us that title. The followers of Him are entitled to use that name. I have the title of Christian and I'm Catholic. She stated she doesn't see Catholics as true Christians. You really don't see the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Jesus gave us that title. The followers of Him are entitled to use that name. Too right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Jesus gave us that title. The followers of Him are entitled to use that name. Exactly. You have absolutely every right to use that name. As do others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I don't see Teannika as being judgmental. What I believe she is trying to point out is that her Christianity isn't the same as mainstream organisation Christianity. She is outside the box of it. Just like homeschoolers that don't follow a pre- packaged curriculum are different to those who don't, and are free style etc... Sorry, it's a bad example, I know. The thread went from her explaining quite clearly why and how she believes what she believes, as was the purpose, to repeatedly denigrating Jews and now Catholics. Enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teannika Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I don't believe that a true Christian in the Bible would ever want to have a Jew murdered. I don't see any biblical support for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasperstone Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 You've made it perfectly clear you agree with her, yet no one is reprimanding you. Why do you suppose that is? We already know she doesn't care to align with whatever she considers to be mainstream Christianity. Nothing she can say is going to convince us of that any more than we are already convinced. ;) Maybe, because I haven't gone to any great lengths to post here. As I don't want to get caught up in it like Teannika has. Normally I might have, but I'm just recovering from some emotional stuff. So I'm self preserving. ;-) But I felt inclined to give Teannika some back up when I also share her views of the difference of followers of Christ's Christianity with mainstream organisation Christianity etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teannika Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I have the title of Christian and I'm Catholic. She stated she doesn't see Catholics as true Christians. You really don't see the problem? I don't believe Catholicism is the true unadulterated version of true Christianity. (It's my belief, yes) I do believe a Catholic person can be saved. Catholics generally don't believe that what I believe is true for salvation. It goes both ways as I said, Catholics have told me that I'm not saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Teannika, I see in your picture you've got a lovely baby on your back there. I bet you have multiple aspects to your identity that you could share on these forums. Baby wearing ? Mama of a large family ? What methods of homeschooling do you use ? My point being, this thread is going nowhere good fast. You've shared a lot about your faith for the benefit of those reading. But you're digging yourself an enormous hole. Why not take a break from this thread and get to know everyone here in some other threads, and let everyone else get to know you a bit better as well ? I think this is a fantastic idea. I'm certain there is more to her than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teannika Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The case that I thought worthwhile fighting against is Albeto's case blaming Christianity for murdering Jews. I don't believe all Christians believe this, that's what I was standing for. And I am happy to leave it there. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teannika Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 There is more to me! I've really got to go and get things done. We start back our school term this week, and I have some planning to do. I just keep getting too tempted to come back and reply. Need some more self-control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teannika Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 The thread went from her explaining quite clearly why and how she believes what she believes, as was the purpose, to repeatedly denigrating Jews and now Catholics. Enough. I've been defending Jews. I don't want any Jew harmed or persecuted under the name of Christianity. (As I keep saying, it is not the biblical thing to do - so how can it be true Christianity doing it?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamaraby Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I don't believe that a true Christian in the Bible would ever want to have a Jew murdered. I don't see any biblical support for that. Just because you disagree with someone labeling themselves as a Christian, it doesn't make them not one. Again, it's a logically fallacy called No True Scotsman http://en.wikipedia....o_true_Scotsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I've been defending Jews. I don't want any Jew harmed or persecuted under the name of Christianity. (As I keep saying, it is not the biblical thing to do - so how can it be true Christianity doing it?) A few things about this... First, I hear what you're saying, and yet it has been pointed out to you more the once what you are actually doing. You just refuse to see it. Second, I find it interesting how you're vehemently trying to defend your supposed love of the Jewish people, and yet you aren't even addressing the nonsense you've said about Catholics. Third, I'd ask you to consider that if even I, as a non-believer, have found some of your comments to be over the top, it is likely that you are digging a hole for yourself here that will be difficult to climb out of. Respectfully, if you are truly interested in reaping any the many, many benefits of the WTM Forums, I would ask you to perhaps take Sadie's advice to heart and let us all get to know the rest of you. You've made your faith position very clear here, and I'm sure there's more to know about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I don't believe Catholicism is the true unadulterated version of true Christianity. (It's my belief, yes) I do believe a Catholic person can be saved. Catholics generally don't believe that what I believe is true for salvation. It goes both ways as I said, Catholics have told me that I'm not saved. Well your "belief" is peculiar in a historical context as well as a theological one. Better to find grace and wisdom within our own lives than attempt to forecast the fates of others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Teannika and Jasperstone? Go write some posts about education. Leave the theology alone for while. Albeto, let it go. Everyone else: Nothing else to see here. Move along. Moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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