Warning for moms of GF dc

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I'm not offended in the least. I'm annoyed at the defense of the hypocrisy and rampant judgment in this thread. I tend to forget how many people have the "If it hasn't happened to me, it must be imaginary" mindset and the assumption that we're too stupid to know how to care for our own health properly. I also tend to forget why I rarely participate here anymore. It's a good reminder. I don't need to spend so much time online anyway.

 

 

Oh, pshaw. I hope you have the research to back that up!

 

There are zero posts in this thread claiming that gluten allergies and/or intolerances are made up. Zero. None. Nada. Zilch.

[Catwoman]

I'm not offended in the least. I'm annoyed at the defense of the hypocrisy and rampant judgment in this thread. I tend to forget how many people have the "If it hasn't happened to me, it must be imaginary" mindset and the assumption that we're too stupid to know how to care for our own health properly. I also tend to forget why I rarely participate here anymore. It's a good reminder. I don't need to spend so much time online anyway.

Maybe it's just me, but I wasn't getting the impression that anyone was saying that here, and I'm really not seeing a lot of "rampant judgment," either.

You seem very defensive about this, but I'm not really seeing the negativity toward you or your lifestyle that you seem to be perceiving. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that I certainly didn't intend to appear to be in any way critical of anything you're doing for your health.

[Mom-ninja.]

The symptoms from eating gluten are so vast and varied, though that many do not equate them to gluten/chronic inflammation. It's not just GI symptoms.

It's anger, depression, headaches, dizziness, joint pain, acne, eczema, psoriasis, gas, bloating, sinus issues, asthma. Just to name a FEW. If anyone has any one, or several of the above or any other myriad "symptoms", a gluten challenge MAY help them. They won't know unless they try. But, we are so accustomed to aches and pains, drippy noses during allergy season, etc. that we just keep on keeping on.

 

I'm not sure why you think I was only talking about GI issues. Nowhere in my post did I narrow it down to just GI.

 

 

 

How do people know they're not having symptoms until they try going without it? When I gave up gluten, guess what I discovered? The horrible cramps that I was having each month with my period disappeared. My period went from seven days (three of them miserable) to four-five, with only one heavy day. I thought that was my normal period--it had been that way since I had my second baby. Women with endometriosis have found that going on a low-carb diet reduces the symptoms they deal with monthly.

So what? Who cares? If they tried to give up gluten (or dairy, or soy, or caffeine, or sugar) and it didn't work for them, what have they lost? 

 

 

 

There are lots of home/folk/herbal/homeopathic/food-related remedies out there that work for people in spite of not having significant research to back up their claims. I took an herbal supplement that hardly anyone has ever heard of, and it saved my marriage and possibly my mental health. It brought me back to my family and eliminated the daily rage I was experiencing. Are you really going to say that because there are only a few journal articles discussing this supplement's possible efficacy, that it didn't actually work for me after all? Can you really tell me that the disappearance of the significant physical symptoms I was experiencing when I gave up gluten didn't actually happen, and that I'm really having reflux and intestinal distress on a daily basis--I just don't realize it? Maybe the coconut oil I take on a daily basis doesn't actually help me focus better after all. A lack of research does not equal a lack of effectiveness. It just equals a lack of research.

 

 

 

 

After I was diagnosed with celiac and stopped eating gluten my periods went from 4 moderate to light days to 7-8 days the first 4 being heavy. As in I needed a tampon and a pad. I went from cramps on the first day of my period to 3-4 days of "shoot me in the head I can't even walk" cramps. I popped Motrin like it was candy. Horrendous headaches, extreme raging, and ovulation pain that made me double over and not be able to move. 

 

I actually read in one of the many celiac books I've read (so sadly I don't remember which one but I could give a list of books I've read) that this was not unusual for a celiac on a gf diet. My doctor agreed. Turns out that a woman with celiac (while eating gluten), due to various reasons such as malnutrition and hormone disruption, may not have normal cycles. Some women are infertile or cannot support a pg. When the hormones are no longer disrupted by gluten inflammation they go full force.

 

So for some women (celiacs) menstration is worse being gf. Thankfully, there are things to help like the pill or IUD.

 

 

 

Here is my problem with some people who don't have medical/health reasons for not eating something. They go to a restaurant and make a big deal about how "allergic" they are to a certain food. They stress how horrible a food is for them. They lie. It happens more and more. This seems to be an accepted thing. Even Jillian Michaels recommends lieing to a server in order to reduce calories in meals. Servers/chefs/cooks know this. They know people lie. I'm sure the amount of customers saying they have an allergy or food issue has increased to unbelievable numbers. So are the servers/chefs/cooks going actually be diligent and careful to prevent cross contamination? NO. A big fat NO. Because they know that most people are lieing. This is proven when these people eat the food which most likely has some of the "forbidden" ingredient, and those people don't get sick. 

 

This is why I do not eat out. Because the employees are restaurants do not believe me when I try to stress how important it is that I don't eat gluten. They won't believe me. They will think I'm just another one of those people trying the gf thing like so many others.

 

Yes, I have people tell me all the time that they lie to servers and cooks. It's common these days. It pisses me off.

 

 

 

 

The placebo effect can be a very powerful thing.

And shown through empirical evidence to be highly effective.

 

 

 

I don't care if people want to try a gf diet. Wouldn't be my choice if I had one, but that's because I know how difficult life can be when one HAS to avoid gluten at ALL times or my health is screwed.

 

But when people act like they have a serious problem with gluten when they don't it irritates me for the reason I stated.

 

When people try to portray gluten as the ultimate evil of all illness it's just another round of scapegoating that cycles through.

 

Yes, gluten causes problems for a lot of people in many different ways. However, there are more people in which gluten causes no problems. The current fad is to blame gluten for freaking everything whether there is a link or not.

[Caroline]

I'm not sure why you think I was only talking about GI issues. Nowhere in my post did I narrow it down to just GI.

 

 

 

After I was diagnosed with celiac and stopped eating gluten my periods went from 4 moderate to light days to 7-8 days the first 4 being heavy. As in I needed a tampon and a pad. I went from cramps on the first day of my period to 3-4 days of "shoot me in the head I can't even walk" cramps. I popped Motrin like it was candy. Horrendous headaches, extreme raging, and ovulation pain that made me double over and not be able to move. 

 

I actually read in one of the many celiac books I've read (so sadly I don't remember which one but I could give a list of books I've read) that this was not unusual for a celiac on a gf diet. My doctor agreed. Turns out that a woman with celiac (while eating gluten), due to various reasons such as malnutrition and hormone disruption, may not have normal cycles. Some women are infertile or cannot support a pg. When the hormones are no longer disrupted by gluten inflammation they go full force.

 

So for some women (celiacs) menstration is worse being gf. Thankfully, there are things to help like the pill or IUD.

 

 

 

Here is my problem with some people who don't have medical/health reasons for not eating something. They go to a restaurant and make a big deal about how "allergic" they are to a certain food. They stress how horrible a food is for them. They lie. It happens more and more. This seems to be an accepted thing. Even Jillian Michaels recommends lieing to a server in order to reduce calories in meals. Servers/chefs/cooks know this. They know people lie. I'm sure the amount of customers saying they have an allergy or food issue has increased to unbelievable numbers. So are the servers/chefs/cooks going actually be diligent and careful to prevent cross contamination? NO. A big fat NO. Because they know that most people are lieing. This is proven when these people eat the food which most likely has some of the "forbidden" ingredient, and those people don't get sick. 

 

This is why I do not eat out. Because the employees are restaurants do not believe me when I try to stress how important it is that I don't eat gluten. They won't believe me. They will think I'm just another one of those people trying the gf thing like so many others.

 

Yes, I have people tell me all the time that they lie to servers and cooks. It's common these days. It pisses me off.

 

 

And shown through empirical evidence to be highly effective.

 

 

 

I don't care if people want to try a gf diet. Wouldn't be my choice if I had one, but that's because I know how difficult life can be when one HAS to avoid gluten at ALL times or my health is screwed.

 

But when people act like they have a serious problem with gluten when they don't it irritates me for the reason I stated.

 

When people try to portray gluten as the ultimate evil of all illness it's just another round of scapegoating that cycles through.

 

Yes, gluten causes problems for a lot of people in many different ways. However, there are more people in which gluten causes no problems. The current fad is to blame gluten for freaking everything whether there is a link or not.

Thank you for posting that about your periods. I have recently been diagnosed with Celiac and have been gluten free for four months. (My dd has been gluten free for 6 years.) That explains so much! (I also noticed that when I accidentally had gluten the other day, my anxiety level went through the roof. Has that ever happened to you?)

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I'm not sure why you think I was only talking about GI issues. Nowhere in my post did I narrow it down to just GI.

 

 

 

After I was diagnosed with celiac and stopped eating gluten my periods went from 4 moderate to light days to 7-8 days the first 4 being heavy. As in I needed a tampon and a pad. I went from cramps on the first day of my period to 3-4 days of "shoot me in the head I can't even walk" cramps. I popped Motrin like it was candy. Horrendous headaches, extreme raging, and ovulation pain that made me double over and not be able to move. 

 

I actually read in one of the many celiac books I've read (so sadly I don't remember which one but I could give a list of books I've read) that this was not unusual for a celiac on a gf diet. My doctor agreed. Turns out that a woman with celiac (while eating gluten), due to various reasons such as malnutrition and hormone disruption, may not have normal cycles. Some women are infertile or cannot support a pg. When the hormones are no longer disrupted by gluten inflammation they go full force.

 

So for some women (celiacs) menstration is worse being gf. Thankfully, there are things to help like the pill or IUD.

 

 

 

Here is my problem with some people who don't have medical/health reasons for not eating something. They go to a restaurant and make a big deal about how "allergic" they are to a certain food. They stress how horrible a food is for them. They lie. It happens more and more. This seems to be an accepted thing. Even Jillian Michaels recommends lieing to a server in order to reduce calories in meals. Servers/chefs/cooks know this. They know people lie. I'm sure the amount of customers saying they have an allergy or food issue has increased to unbelievable numbers. So are the servers/chefs/cooks going actually be diligent and careful to prevent cross contamination? NO. A big fat NO. Because they know that most people are lieing. This is proven when these people eat the food which most likely has some of the "forbidden" ingredient, and those people don't get sick. 

 

This is why I do not eat out. Because the employees are restaurants do not believe me when I try to stress how important it is that I don't eat gluten. They won't believe me. They will think I'm just another one of those people trying the gf thing like so many others.

 

Yes, I have people tell me all the time that they lie to servers and cooks. It's common these days. It pisses me off.

 

 

And shown through empirical evidence to be highly effective.

 

 

 

I don't care if people want to try a gf diet. Wouldn't be my choice if I had one, but that's because I know how difficult life can be when one HAS to avoid gluten at ALL times or my health is screwed.

 

But when people act like they have a serious problem with gluten when they don't it irritates me for the reason I stated.

 

When people try to portray gluten as the ultimate evil of all illness it's just another round of scapegoating that cycles through.

 

Yes, gluten causes problems for a lot of people in many different ways. However, there are more people in which gluten causes no problems. The current fad is to blame gluten for freaking everything whether there is a link or not.

 

Your post hits my two main issues.  1.) Those treating GF as a fad can harm those who need to be GF, albeit indirectly. 2.) Gluten is now becoming the new food bugbear with very little research (thus far) to support that position.

 

[fraidycat]

Maybe it's just me, but I wasn't getting the impression that anyone was saying that here, and I'm really not seeing a lot of "rampant judgment," either.
You seem very defensive about this, but I'm not really seeing the negativity toward you or your lifestyle that you seem to be perceiving. I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that I certainly didn't intend to appear to be in any way critical of anything you're doing for your health.

I think the "rampant judgement" part may have been perceived by QGOTD and ChocolateReign's negative reactions to almost everything I've said. Maybe? But maybe not. Perhaps I should let Four speak for herself.

I'm not sure why you think I was only talking about GI issues. Nowhere in my post did I narrow it down to just GI.




Here is my problem with some people who don't have medical/health reasons for not eating something. They go to a restaurant and make a big deal about how "allergic" they are to a certain food. They stress how horrible a food is for them. They lie. It happens more and more. This seems to be an accepted thing. Even Jillian Michaels recommends lieing to a server in order to reduce calories in meals. Servers/chefs/cooks know this. They know people lie. I'm sure the amount of customers saying they have an allergy or food issue has increased to unbelievable numbers. So are the servers/chefs/cooks going actually be diligent and careful to prevent cross contamination? NO. A big fat NO. Because they know that most people are lieing. This is proven when these people eat the food which most likely has some of the "forbidden" ingredient, and those people don't get sick.


.

You asked a question re:symptoms, so I answered to the best of my knowledge.

As for people "lying" about allergies, etc. and not being believed, that is 100% on the chefs, servers, etc. don't put the jerk behavior of jerks on to anyone else.

And here's the thing. Many of us have an intolerance. Our reactions are varied and real. Perhaps the silver lining is that we discovered the intolerance early enough that we can avoid Celiac damage. Maybe. Just perhaps, we are better off getting the gluten out of our bodies BEFORE long-term, biopsiable damage is done. Before intestine removal becomes a real threat. Isn't that a novel concept? Preventative health care in all its wondrous glory.

[Crimson Wife]

I'm not offended in the least. I'm annoyed at the defense of the hypocrisy and rampant judgment in this thread. I tend to forget how many people have the "If it hasn't happened to me, it must be imaginary" mindset and the assumption that we're too stupid to know how to care for our own health properly.

Or if some people are into something as a fad that that means everyone else who HAVE actually seen real health benefits must just be experiencing "placebo effect".

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt...

[Catwoman]

Or if some people are into something as a fad that that means everyone else who HAVE actually seen real health benefits must just be experiencing "placebo effect".

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt...

Has anyone here actually stated that no one has seen real health benefits from being gluten-free?

I haven't pored over every post with a fine-toothed comb so I may very well have missed something, but my impression was that everyone seemed to agree that there are most definitely people who have either an allergy or a sensitivity to gluten, and that those people would certainly benefit from going gluten-free.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Has anyone here actually stated that no one has seen real health benefits from being gluten-free?

I haven't pored over every post with a fine-toothed comb so I may very well have missed something, but my impression was that everyone seemed to agree that there are most definitely people who have either an allergy or a sensitivity to gluten, and that those people would certainly benefit from going gluten-free.

 

No one in this thread has indicated they don't believe gluten issues are real.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Or if some people are into something as a fad that that means everyone else who HAVE actually seen real health benefits must just be experiencing "placebo effect".

 

Your statement is illogical. 

Those who GF as part of fad are a distinct and separate group from those who have went GF due to health reasons.
 

[Catwoman]

No one in this thread has indicated they don't believe gluten issues are real.

Thanks. I was starting to think I'd missed something somewhere along the line. :)

[Spryte]

 

 

Here is my problem with some people who don't have medical/health reasons for not eating something. They go to a restaurant and make a big deal about how "allergic" they are to a certain food. They stress how horrible a food is for them. They lie. It happens more and more. This seems to be an accepted thing. Even Jillian Michaels recommends lieing to a server in order to reduce calories in meals. Servers/chefs/cooks know this. They know people lie. I'm sure the amount of customers saying they have an allergy or food issue has increased to unbelievable numbers. So are the servers/chefs/cooks going actually be diligent and careful to prevent cross contamination? NO. A big fat NO. Because they know that most people are lieing. This is proven when these people eat the food which most likely has some of the "forbidden" ingredient, and those people don't get sick. 

 

 

 

Yes, yes, and yes.  This is the danger I see, too.

 

Someone walks into a restaurant claiming an "allergy" when they don't have one, and the chefs/servers come to expect that the level of cross contamination those people can handle is the norm.  Then someone with Celiac, or in DS's case, an actual allergy to a food walks in ... The chef/server expects the same level of "allergy."  There is a tiny bit of cross contamination.  And the next thing everyone sees is an ambulance, as the allergic individual goes into shock.  It's serious.  

 

This danger is discussed by allergists, by doctors, by patients.  It is real, and it is growing as more and more people walk into restaurants and claim "allergy" or Celiac when what they deal with is not the same.  

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I can't believe I'm wading back in here, but I can't believe people aren't seeing the disconnect.

 

No one in this thread has indicated they don't believe gluten issues are real.

 

People in this thread have stated that they believe gluten allergies and celiac are real, and that anyone who experiences other benefits that they attribute to being GF are shoveling "a load of dung" and "anecdata." Those words were used, specifically, and those are just two instances. In another instance, when I used the example of my period changing after giving up gluten, I was told that sometimes our bodies just change, that the placebo effect is strong, and that people who really have celiac have WORSE periods after going GF (when I specifically said I tested negative for celiac and don't believe I have it). In effect, these people are telling me that I am either crazy, stupid, or lying. No? And can you not see how this would frustrate me--someone who has been cleared of a true allergy and who has received negative tests for celiac, yet who has been dealing with gluten issues for years now, and who can see, directly, the effects on my cycle in the month or two after I've fallen off my diet each and every time? I can make a post with direct quotes if you need more.

 

And yes, I'm using myself as an example of a larger population, because I know I'm not the only person who has experienced improved health in both hoped for and unexpected ways after giving up gluten.

 

 

Those who GF as part of fad are a distinct and separate group from those who have went GF due to health reasons.

 

We seem to be looking at this from different angles. While you seem to see brainless dolts following a snake oil salesman, I am seeing people who are looking to make their lives healthier and are trying out something that might help their health as it has helped many other people. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I take a daily multivitamin for the same reason, and most people seem to think that's a good idea. But I don't understand why we're referring negatively to people who are trying to be healthy. If only more people in this country tried to make themselves healthier, in "crazy" ways or conventional ones!

 

This danger is discussed by allergists, by doctors, by patients.  It is real, and it is growing as more and more people walk into restaurants and claim "allergy" or Celiac when what they deal with is not the same.  

 

Again, we come back to the fact that some people do not have a diagnosed allergy to gluten or diagnosed celiac disease. I am one of these people. Yet, when I eat gluten, I have a physical reaction within one hour that lasts over the next 48 hours. No, it will not kill me, but it is, in fact, a sign that my body is telling me in loud and clear terms that something is wrong with what I'm eating. So are you saying that when I go into a restaurant and ask for my burger with no bun and a salad instead of steak fries because I can't have gluten, I am one of those people responsible for risking your child's life because what I deal with is not the same? Where does that leave me? 

 

I'm not advocating that people lie to servers because they want the lowest carb meal possible, but again, there's a gray area in between fad dieter and certain death, and some of us fall into it. We're still entitled to claim a problem with gluten, though, aren't we?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I can't believe I'm wading back in here, but I can't believe people aren't seeing the disconnect.

 

 

People in this thread have stated that they believe gluten allergies and celiac are real, and that anyone who experiences other benefits that they attribute to being GF are shoveling "a load of dung" and "anecdata." Those words were used, specifically, and those are just two instances. In another instance, when I used the example of my period changing after giving up gluten, I was told that sometimes our bodies just change, that the placebo effect is strong, and that people who really have celiac have WORSE periods after going GF (when I specifically said I tested negative for celiac and don't believe I have it). In effect, these people are telling me that I am either crazy, stupid, or lying. No? And can you not see how this would frustrate me--someone who has been cleared of a true allergy and who has received negative tests for celiac, yet who has been dealing with gluten issues for years now, and who can see, directly, the effects on my cycle in the month or two after I've fallen off my diet each and every time? I can make a post with direct quotes if you need more.

 

And yes, I'm using myself as an example of a larger population, because I know I'm not the only person who has experienced improved health in both hoped for and unexpected ways after giving up gluten.

 

 

We seem to be looking at this from different angles. While you seem to see brainless dolts following a snake oil salesman, I am seeing people who are looking to make their lives healthier and are trying out something that might help their health as it has helped many other people. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But I don't understand why we're referring negatively to people who are trying to be healthy. If only more people in this country tried to make themselves healthier, in "crazy" ways or conventional ones!

 

 

Again, we come back to the fact that some people do not have a diagnosed allergy to gluten or diagnosed celiac disease. I am one of these people. Yet, when I eat gluten, I have a physical reaction within one hour that lasts over the next 48 hours. No, it will not kill me, but it is, in fact, a sign that my body is telling me something is wrong with what I'm eating. So are you saying that when I go into a restaurant and ask for my burger with no bun and a salad instead of steak fries because I can't have gluten, I am one of those people responsible for risking your child's life because what I deal with is not the same? Where does that leave me? 

 

I'm not advocating that people lie to servers because they want the lowest carb meal possible, but again, there's a gray area in between fad dieter and certain death, and some of us fall into it. We're still entitled to claim a problem with gluten, though, aren't we?

 

As you are determined to take offense I will simply not engage you further.  My only message to both you and fraidycat is when you put your opinion on a topic out in the open, then you should expect that someone may disagree with it.
 

And for the record, the placebo effect IS real and anecdotes are not data.

[Catwoman]

I can't believe I'm wading back in here, but I can't believe people aren't seeing the disconnect.



People in this thread have stated that they believe gluten allergies and celiac are real, and that anyone who experiences other benefits that they attribute to being GF are shoveling "a load of dung" and "anecdata." Those words were used, specifically, and those are just two instances. In another instance, when I used the example of my period changing after giving up gluten, I was told that sometimes our bodies just change, that the placebo effect is strong, and that people who really have celiac have WORSE periods after going GF (when I specifically said I tested negative for celiac and don't believe I have it). In effect, these people are telling me that I am either crazy, stupid, or lying. No? And can you not see how this would frustrate me--someone who has been cleared of a true allergy and who has received negative tests for celiac, yet who has been dealing with gluten issues for years now, and who can see, directly, the effects on my cycle in the month or two after I've fallen off my diet each and every time? I can make a post with direct quotes if you need more.

And yes, I'm using myself as an example of a larger population, because I know I'm not the only person who has experienced improved health in both hoped for and unexpected ways after giving up gluten.



We seem to be looking at this from different angles. While you seem to see brainless dolts following a snake oil salesman, I am seeing people who are looking to make their lives healthier and are trying out something that might help their health as it has helped many other people. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I take a daily multivitamin for the same reason, and most people seem to think that's a good idea. But I don't understand why we're referring negatively to people who are trying to be healthy. If only more people in this country tried to make themselves healthier, in "crazy" ways or conventional ones!



Again, we come back to the fact that some people do not have a diagnosed allergy to gluten or diagnosed celiac disease. I am one of these people. Yet, when I eat gluten, I have a physical reaction within one hour that lasts over the next 48 hours. No, it will not kill me, but it is, in fact, a sign that my body is telling me in loud and clear terms that something is wrong with what I'm eating. So are you saying that when I go into a restaurant and ask for my burger with no bun and a salad instead of steak fries because I can't have gluten, I am one of those people responsible for risking your child's life because what I deal with is not the same? Where does that leave me?

I'm not advocating that people lie to servers because they want the lowest carb meal possible, but again, there's a gray area in between fad dieter and certain death, and some of us fall into it. We're still entitled to claim a problem with gluten, though, aren't we?

I'm sorry, but I think you are really over-reacting. Obviously this is a major hot-button issue with you, and that's fine, but I truly do believe that you are overly personalizing the comments made in this thread and that you are inferring intentions that aren't there.

You even seem to be arguing with me, and as far as I know, I haven't insulted you in any way.

:confused:

[fraidycat]

As you are determined to take offense I will simply not engage you further. My only message to both you and fraidycat is when you put your opinion on a topic out in the open, then you should expect that someone may disagree with it.

And for the record, the placebo effect IS real and anecdotes are not data.

.

FTR, I refused to engage, tried very hard to remain neutral only stating my opinion and knowledge that I've discovered through lots of research without name calling and did not disparage anyone else's opinion. The same cannot be said for all posters here. Anecdata and dung are disparaging. I specifically pointed to two separate sets of resources, naming one as scientific and one as anecdotal. I did not try to pass off one for the other. It was very clearly stated.

I do not care if anyone agrees with me, I was answering specific questions asked in this thread.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

As you are determined to take offense I will simply not engage you further. My only message to both you and fraidycat is when you put your opinion on a topic out in the open, then you should expect that someone may disagree with it.

And for the record, the placebo effect IS real and anecdotes are not data.

As you're determined to continue being obtuse about how your words give offense, that's fine with me.

Of course the placebo effect is real. That doesn't mean that everyone who receives a health benefit from making a lifestyle change is experiencing it. And my anecdotes are my data. They are my reality, whether you give themcredence or not. That's the bottom line.

[Catwoman]

.

FTR, I refused to engage, tried very hard to remain neutral only stating my opinion and knowledge that I've discovered through lots of research without name calling and did not disparage anyone else's opinion. The same cannot be said for all posters here. Anecdata and dung are disparaging. I specifically pointed to two separate resources, naming one as scientific and one as anecdotal. I did not try to pass off one for the other. It was very clearly stated.

I do not care if anyone agrees with me, I was answering specifiv questions asked in this thread.

I think you've been very civil. :)

I also think it's very unfortunate that people on both sides of discussions like this tend to become over-zealous and start to make it personal, instead of trying to focus on the actual issue at hand.

I think the topic is very interesting, and I like reading about people's experiences and about the articles they've read and research they have done, but I wish the discussion wasn't so heated.

[Spryte]

So are you saying that when I go into a restaurant and ask for my burger with no bun and a salad instead of steak fries because I can't have gluten, I am one of those people responsible for risking your child's life because what I deal with is not the same? Where does that leave me? 

 

I'm not advocating that people lie to servers because they want the lowest carb meal possible, but again, there's a gray area in between fad dieter and certain death, and some of us fall into it. We're still entitled to claim a problem with gluten, though, aren't we?

 

Of course you can claim a problem with gluten, and you may well have one.  I have no issue with that.  And you can go into a restaurant and ask for your burger with no bun and a salad because you have a problem with gluten, and tell the server that you have a problem with it, and order accordingly.  

 

I do have a problem, as does my son's board certified allergist, with people who walk into a restaurant and claim they have an "allergy" when they do not have an allergy, with an IgE-mediated allergy being the standard.  If anyone suspects they have an IgE-mediated allergy to a food, getting tested is of paramount importance as past reactions don't predict future reactions, and an epipen is necessary, so there isn't really any "wondering" about it and eating out in the meantime, there's not much gray area there.  Any other intolerance is not an "allergy" even though it may indeed be important to avoid that type of food.  Calling it an allergy trivializes what people with true allergies live on a daily basis, and yes, I think it lulls servers/chefs/managers into a sense of safety about a small amount of cross contamination.  So, yes, avoid the foods that you need to avoid.  But don't call it an allergy unless it is one.  

 

We rarely eat out, because doing so is putting the life of our child in someone else's hands.  But when we do, it is sad that I have to clarify to the server/chef/manager (and yes, we speak to each of them) that DS has a true allergy, that a slip up can mean epipens and ambulances at their establishment.  Not a stomach ache in the privacy of our own home later, not eczema, not some other random symptom that might show up later.  I do think there's a difference.  And it is life and death.  

 

That said, I do think there are people who benefit from being GF and who are not diagnosed as having Celiac yet.  My doctor is one who advocates that most of her patients go GF because she feels, based on attendance at conferences and her own research, that genetically modified wheat is contributing to the rise of gluten intolerance, etc, and that we'd all benefit from going completely wheat free or eating only ancient grains.  

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I think you've been very civil.

I also think it's very unfortunate that people on both sides of discussions like this tend to become over-zealous and start to make it personal, instead of trying to focus on the actual issue at hand.

I think the topic is very interesting, but I wish the discussion wasn't so heated.

 

Sorry, but when people basically tell you you're either lying or deluding yourself, it's kinda personal. I don't know what else to say. I can discuss research, theories, possible explanations for an increase in incidence, etc. from a fairly reserved standpoint. That's not what was happening in this thread. 

 

Maybe next we can tackle kids who react to food colorings! We can round up all the people who believe it's hooey and that those kids just need a good spanking and pit them against people who have reactive kids, in spite of the lack of research on the topic. My Sunday schedule is pretty loose, so I think I can squeeze it in!

[Χά�ων]

As you're determined to continue being obtuse acute about how your words give offense, that's fine with me.

Of course the placebo effect is real. That doesn't mean that everyone who receives a health benefit from making a lifestyle change is experiencing it. And my anecdotes are my data. They are my reality, whether you give themcredence or not. That's the bottom line.

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Sorry, but when people basically tell you you're either lying or deluding yourself, it's kinda personal. I don't know what else to say. I can discuss research, theories, possible explanations for an increase in incidence, etc. from a fairly reserved standpoint. That's not what was happening in this thread. 

 

Maybe next we can tackle kids who react to food colorings! We can round up all the people who believe it's hooey and that those kids just need a good spanking and pit them against people who have reactive kids, in spite of the lack of research on the topic. My Sunday schedule is pretty loose, so I think I can squeeze it in!

 

Yet again, no one in this thread ever said that to you.  No one.  Pretending that happened is just as disruptive to a discussion as personal attacks would be.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

.

FTR, I refused to engage, tried very hard to remain neutral only stating my opinion and knowledge that I've discovered through lots of research without name calling and did not disparage anyone else's opinion. The same cannot be said for all posters here. Anecdata and dung are disparaging. I specifically pointed to two separate sets of resources, naming one as scientific and one as anecdotal. I did not try to pass off one for the other. It was very clearly stated.

I do not care if anyone agrees with me, I was answering specific questions asked in this thread.

 

Anecdata is not disparaging.  And again ftr, when discussing research on an issue, pointing to threads on a homeschooling board as supporting evidence is not helpful. (Which is why the placebo effect becomes part of these conversations.)

[Catwoman]

Sorry, but when people basically tell you you're either lying or deluding yourself, it's kinda personal. I don't know what else to say. I can discuss research, theories, possible explanations for an increase in incidence, etc. from a fairly reserved standpoint. That's not what was happening in this thread.

Maybe next we can tackle kids who react to food colorings! We can round up all the people who believe it's hooey and that those kids just need a good spanking and pit them against people who have reactive kids, in spite of the lack of research on the topic. My Sunday schedule is pretty loose, so I think I can squeeze it in!

Please note that I specified "PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF DISCUSSIONS LIKE THIS."

I was not singling you out. I wasn't even singling out this one particular thread.

[Crimson Wife]

No one in this thread has indicated they don't believe gluten issues are real.

Yes, they did.

If someone does not have celiac, a wheat allergy etc how is going off gluten going to improve their health?

Not all people who have an issue with gluten have celiac or wheat allergy. Non-celiac gluten intolerance is very real.

The idea of non-celiac gluten intolerance or sensitivity is actually pretty controversial in medical circles. Most of what I've read from researchers is that most people would feel better on a GF diet. They point out that eating GF forces you to give up most fast food, most processed food, etc. It forces you to eat fresh, whole foods, so of course people who do it feel better and see a change in the way their body functions.

Treating medical conditions with anything other than pharmaceuticals is controversial among allopathic physicians. There's a bias against anything that was created by nature rather than synthesized in a lab. This bias has its roots in a "turf war" between M.D.'s and herbalists that continues today. Some open-minded physicians are now starting to practice integrative/holistic medicine, but that's still a minority of them.

The placebo effect can be a very powerful thing.

And we're back to the claim that it's all in our heads. As if a 3 year old autistic child could force her body to stop growing and then magically force it to quickly gain a whole bunch of height and weight simply through the power of her mind.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Yes, they did.


Not all people who have an issue with gluten have celiac or wheat allergy. Non-celiac gluten intolerance is very real.


Treating medical conditions with anything other than pharmaceuticals is controversial among allopathic physicians. There's a bias against anything that was created by nature rather than synthesized in a lab. This bias has its roots in a "turf war" between M.D.'s and herbalists that continues today. Some open-minded physicians are now starting to practice integrative/holistic medicine, but that's still a minority of them.


And we're back to the claim that it's all in our heads. As if a 3 year old autistic child could force her body to stop growing and then magically force it to quickly gain a whole bunch of height and weight simply through the power of her mind.

 

Excuse me, but exactly said that gluten intolerances or allergies are not real?

 

(ETA: I just scanned the whole thread.  I cannot find where anyone said gluten intolerances are not real.)

 

Regarding your last statement, I can only infer that you are deliberately misinterpreting what has been said regarding the placebo effect.

 

 

[Word Nerd]

My doctor is one who advocates that most of her patients go GF because she feels, based on attendance at conferences and her own research, that genetically modified wheat is contributing to the rise of gluten intolerance, etc, and that we'd all benefit from going completely wheat free or eating only ancient grains.

She's spreading misinformation then. There is no commercially available GM wheat. No one is eating GM wheat.

[Spryte]

She's spreading misinformation then. There is no commercially available GM wheat. No one is eating GM wheat.

 

That's good to know.  :)

[ChocolateReignRemix]

That's good to know.   :)

 

She was likely referring to the hybridization of wheat which has led to different wheat strands.

[Spryte]

She was likely referring to the hybridization of wheat which has led to different wheat strands.

 

That could be.  I may have put words in her mouth, just assuming she meant GM.  She had a lengthy, technical discussion with me about it, but I admit I did not carry away the details of what she said, only the gist of it.  FWIW, she's a western, allopathic doc, very focused on peer-reviewed science.  I was surprised to hear her thoughts on it.  

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Please note that I specified "PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF DISCUSSIONS LIKE THIS."

I was not singling you out. I wasn't even singling out this one particular thread.

 

I don't think I said you were? I was simply responding as a heated participant in this particular heated thread. 

 

Good grief, I am several posts past done. Good night all.

[Catwoman]

I don't think I said you were? I was simply responding as a heated participant in this particular heated thread.

Good grief, I am several posts past done. Good night all.

Oh, OK -- sorry about that! :blush: I wanted to be sure you didn't think I was saying "people" but that I really meant you. After I re-read my post, I thought it might have come across that way to you and I wanted to clarify, particularly since I know you feel like you're being picked on in this thread.

[eternalsummer]

On a side note, taking a daily multivitamin is mostly pointless and you should probably stop, unless there's a concrete reason you have a shortage of something.

[Catwoman]

On a side note, taking a daily multivitamin is mostly pointless and you should probably stop, unless there's a concrete reason you have a shortage of something.

:svengo: :svengo: :svengo: :svengo: :svengo:

Wow. Two hot-button topics in one thread.

It's like a Buy One, Get One Free sale over here.

Somebody hand me the popcorn. ;)

[Χά�ων]

:svengo: :svengo: :svengo: :svengo: :svengo:

Wow. Two hot-button topics in one thread.

It's like a Buy One, Get One Free sale over here.

Somebody hand me the popcorn. ;)

 

I refuse to share the popcorn. Grow your own

:lurk5:

[Aspasia]

.
Here is my problem with some people who don't have medical/health reasons for not eating something. They go to a restaurant and make a big deal about how "allergic" they are to a certain food. They stress how horrible a food is for them. They lie. It happens more and more. This seems to be an accepted thing. Even Jillian Michaels recommends lieing to a server in order to reduce calories in meals. Servers/chefs/cooks know this. They know people lie. I'm sure the amount of customers saying they have an allergy or food issue has increased to unbelievable numbers. So are the servers/chefs/cooks going actually be diligent and careful to prevent cross contamination? NO. A big fat NO. Because they know that most people are lieing. This is proven when these people eat the food which most likely has some of the "forbidden" ingredient, and those people don't get sick. 
 
This is why I do not eat out. Because the employees are restaurants do not believe me when I try to stress how important it is that I don't eat gluten. They won't believe me. They will think I'm just another one of those people trying the gf thing like so many others.
 
Yes, I have people tell me all the time that they lie to servers and cooks. It's common these days. It pisses me off.
 
 

And shown through empirical evidence to be highly effective.
 
 
 
I don't care if people want to try a gf diet. Wouldn't be my choice if I had one, but that's because I know how difficult life can be when one HAS to avoid gluten at ALL times or my health is screwed.
 
But when people act like they have a serious problem with gluten when they don't it irritates me for the reason I stated.
 
When people try to portray gluten as the ultimate evil of all illness it's just another round of scapegoating that cycles through.
 
Yes, gluten causes problems for a lot of people in many different ways. However, there are more people in which gluten causes no problems. The current fad is to blame gluten for freaking everything whether there is a link or not.

Yes!!!

I used to be really critical of the gluten-free trend, and vocally pro-gluten. Then my kid was diagnosed with celiac. A very cruel irony, indeed. Of course, now everyone tells me it's a great time to be gluten-free because the trendiness has driven a big market for gluten-free products. I can appreciate that, for sure.

But even more than that, I sort of resent the trend for the reasons Ninja mentioned. Everyone is walking around telling people their kid can't have gluten, and in my experience, it's usually a behavior issue or something like that that the parent has diagnosed. Fine. But then when I tell someone my kid can't have gluten, I worry that they'll assume he's just another kid who might end up with an upset stomach or might have a day or two of rotten behavior. And that means they don't take it as seriously as they should. He has an actual, legitimate, clinically evident disease. Gluten causes his body to attack itself. I've seen the pictures of the damage it has done. It's not a temporarily upset stomach or temporary attention issues or behavior problems.

Basically, I just feel like the fad and self- (or parent-) diagnosis of gluten intolerance trivializes the reality of celiac disease and true wheat allergies.

My apologies to whomever this offends, and I'm sorry for whatever temporary reaction your body has to gluten. Really, I am. But it doesn't carry the same gravity as celiac disease in any way, so making servers/chefs bend over backwards for you kinda irritates me...because the more backwards bending they do for you, the less seriously they take me when I describe my child's needs.

[Catwoman]

I refuse to share the popcorn. Grow your own
:lurk5:

Fine. Be that way. :D

And let's not forget to take our vitamins. We might need the extra strength to make it through the rest of this thread.

And just for spite, I got my own :lurk5:

[Spryte]

I refuse to share the popcorn. Grow your own
:lurk5:

Non GM or hybridized, and gluten free popcorn only here. :)

[ChocolateReignRemix]

*sigh*

We take vitamins.  Yet another way we are doing it wrong!

[Χά�ων]

On a side note, taking a daily multivitamin is mostly pointless and you should probably stop, unless there's a concrete reason you have a shortage of something.

And if there is a medical need a medical doctor can and will write a script. DS has two such scripts. Most of the OTC multivitamin's contain ingredients that are dangerous to my son. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Non GM or hybridized, and gluten free popcorn only here. :)

 

I just want mine with no butter - a treat in our house.  DH and both boys seem to like popcorn with their butter. Gooey mess.

[Χά�ων]

Fine. Be that way.

And let's not forget to take our vitamins. We might need the extra strength to make it through the rest of this thread.

And just for spite, I got my own

:lurk5:  :lurk5:  :lurk5:  :lurk5:    :lurk5:  :lurk5:  :lurk5:  :lurk5:  :lurk5:  :lurk5:               

 

I got more. HA!

[Spryte]

I just want mine with no butter - a treat in our house. DH and both boys seem to like popcorn with their butter. Gooey mess.

I'll take your butter then. DS is allergic to dairy, too, so no butter in our house.

[Catwoman]

Basically, I just feel like the fad and self- (or parent-) diagnosis of gluten intolerance trivializes the reality of celiac disease and true wheat allergies.

:iagree:

And it doesn't help that many people have no clue about how difficult it is to be truly gluten-free. Unlike what many people believe, you can't just take the burger off the bun at McDonald's and eat it if you truly have celiac disease, or even prepare your food on the same countertop where someone just made some bread dough. You can't even use the same knife they used to slice some bread without being sure it was thoroughly washed first. There are many people who have no idea what cross-contamination means, and if they did, they wouldn't keep claiming to be gluten-free or acting like it's no big deal to eliminate all exposure to gluten.

I know a woman who has severe celiac disease and the slightest exposure to gluten makes her sick. Eliminating gluten from her life has given her much better health, but even she has said that it is not an easy or convenient lifestyle.

[Catwoman]

I just want mine with no butter - a treat in our house. DH and both boys seem to like popcorn with their butter. Gooey mess.

OK, I made some plain popcorn just for you. :lurk5:

It looks kinda buttery, but that's probably just the artificial coloring.

[Catwoman]

Non GM or hybridized, and gluten free popcorn only here. :)

OK, now you're just showing off. :D

[Catwoman]

*sigh*
We take vitamins. Yet another way we are doing it wrong!

Same here.

Maybe we should all get together and just throw our money right out the window.

But taking the vitamins makes me feel like I'm doing something healthy, so I'm going to keep it up, no matter what ananemone says.

Did she comment on the gf issue or did she just stop by to share her wisdom about the vitamins? I don't remember and I'm too lazy to go check.

[fraidycat]

She's spreading misinformation then. There is no commercially available GM wheat. No one is eating GM wheat.

If this is true, can you explain the agricultural marketing term "Round Up Ready" to me, please.

I am not trying to be argumentative, I'm truly asking a serious question. I'm willing to be educated because at the moment, I am making some erroneous assumptions if what you say is true.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

If this is true, can you explain the agricultural marketing term "Round Up Ready" to me, please.

I am not trying to be argumentative, I'm truly asking a serious question. I'm willing to be educated because at the moment, I am making some erroneous assumptions if what you say is true.

 

Roundup Ready wheat is not commercially available at this time.  It is currently being tested (again, the first trial tests were ended around a decade ago) but has never been marketed in any country.  However there are other Roundup Ready crops on the market (I *think* corn and soybeans are the most common.)

[NASDAQ]

If this is true, can you explain the agricultural marketing term "Round Up Ready" to me, please.

I am not trying to be argumentative, I'm truly asking a serious question. I'm willing to be educated because at the moment, I am making some erroneous assumptions if what you say is true.

 

"Roundup Ready wheat" is a type of GM wheat that has been field-tested but is not in commercial production, at least as of early this year.

 

"Roundup Ready" refers to a class of GM Monsanto products, some of which (soybeans, canola, cotton) are in commercial production and have been for some time, and some of which (wheat) are in trials. I believe Roundup Ready corn is in commercial production but not sold as sweet corn; that is to say, you are not going to find it in your produce section.

 

Does that clear it up at all?