article about new book about SAT prep and testing

[JennyD]

I came across this article:

 

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/03/03/140303fa_fact_kolbert?currentPage=1

 

about this book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Perfect-Score-Project-Uncovering/dp/0307956679/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1393389417&sr=8-3&keywords=the+perfect+score

 

and thought they both might be of interest to some folks here.

[regentrude]

She did this to motivate her kid?

I would think seeing one's mother obsessing about the SAT for a year, taking it seven times, and still only getting a 560 in math would accomplish the exact opposite.

Yes, I have read the interview on the amazon website - but after all, she wants to sell her book. That's  the kind of teen responses I would invent if that were my goal. And

 

What do you think the most important thing you learned from my mistakes was?

Ethan: You have to have all the basic skills down before you try to learn any tricks because without a solid base of math and grammar, you won’t be able to answer the questions fast enough on the test.

 

is hardly earth shattering news that requires a year long endeavor to discover.

 

Debbie: How do you think the project affected our relationship?

Ethan: I think it made our relationship stronger because we spent so much time together. Studying for the SAT is very time consuming!

 

Seriously?

[hepatica]

"As befits an exam named for itself, the SAT measures those skills—and really only those skills—necessary for the SATs."

 

I think the last line says it all.

[Kareni]

They were interesting indeed, JennyD.  Thanks for the links.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Wait....7 tests and she didn't crack 600 math? Something smells funny. I'll check out the book, but hmmm....

[G5052]

Yes, I actually saw that on Amazon this morning.  We've found the PWN SAT Essay book to be very helpful, and I wanted to price the PWN SAT Math book.  And there it was as a recommendation...

 

It sounds remotely interesting, but not enough to buy it right now.  I love my kids and want them to do well on the SAT, but taking it that many times myself and studying like she did with them isn't something I'd do.

[Halcyon]

I read that in the New Yorker and I thought "Crazy but weirdly, I can relate"--the idea that you set a goal and really want to meet it. The fact that her original scores were SO poor probably should have given her a good indication that she isn't a good test taker and isn't that good at math. And that's okay. She seems to have a nice life regardless. 

 

So what was the point that she was trying to make for her kids?

[unsinkable]

Wait....7 tests and she didn't crack 600 math? Something smells funny. I'll check out the book, but hmmm....

When you advised people about becoming an SAT tutor, you mentioned telling your potential clients your score, as a tutor.

 

Did you mean your childhood score or your adult score?

[regentrude]

When you advised people about becoming an SAT tutor, you mentioned telling your potential clients your score, as a tutor.

 

Did you mean your childhood score or your adult score?

 

I am not ThatHomeSchoolDad, but if I were hiring an SAT tutor, I would want to know his adult score since the test has changed significantly from the time when the potential tutor was a child (unless I am talking to a very young tutor whose high school score is only a few years back).

(And, needless to say, I'd only take advice from somebody whose score shows that they have a firm handle on the test.)

[unsinkable]

I am not ThatHomeSchoolDad, but if I were hiring an SAT tutor, I would want to know his adult score since the test has changed significantly from the time when the potential tutor was a child (unless I am talking to a very young tutor whose high school score is only a few years back).

(And, needless to say, I'd only take advice from somebody whose score shows that they have a firm handle on the test.)

Thanks for your input! I appreciate it.

[1Togo]

nm

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

When you advised people about becoming an SAT tutor, you mentioned telling your potential clients your score, as a tutor.

 

Did you mean your childhood score or your adult score?

Both, then I point out just how diffefent the test is now, AND, more importantly (and depressing), is how much the admissions game has changed for the worse. There are about 2000 four year schools in America. About 36 of them reject more applicants than they accept, thus earning the title "highly competitive." Yet here in the insane micro-bubble that is the Northeast, it tends to be only those 36 that count in too many parents' eyes. It's nuts.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I am not ThatHomeSchoolDad, but if I were hiring an SAT tutor, I would want to know his adult score since the test has changed significantly from the time when the potential tutor was a child (unless I am talking to a very young tutor whose high school score is only a few years back).

(And, needless to say, I'd only take advice from somebody whose score shows that they have a firm handle on the test.)

 

Sorry. I didn't read up-thread enough. I can blame that on just getting home from a student, right? Ok, no brick-throwing...

 

1982: 1210

2008: 2240

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I say go to fairtest.org and find an enlightned school that has seen fit to move beyond the SAT madness.

[unsinkable]

Both, then I point out just how diffefent the test is now, AND, more importantly (and depressing), is how much the admissions game has changed for the worse. There are about 2000 four year schools in America. About 36 of them reject more applicants than they accept, thus earning the title "highly competitive." Yet here in the insane micro-bubble that is the Northeast, it tends to be only those 36 that count in too many parents' eyes. It's nuts.

Sorry. I didn't read up-thread enough. I can blame that on just getting home from a student, right? Ok, no brick-throwing...

 

1982: 1210

2008: 2240

No bricks here. I'm impressed!

 

Did the company you work for test you or did you sign up and take it as an adult test taker?

 

I'm even more interested in being a SAT or ACT tutor now. I used to love taking standardized tests and I always did well on them.

 

In my neck of the woods, I don't think I'd get $60/hour because the economy isn't as strong as where you are. I'd be happy with half that.

 

Thanks for the info! I appreciate the help!

[Caroline]

No bricks here. I'm impressed!

 

Did the company you work for test you or did you sign up and take it as an adult test taker?

 

I'm even more interested in being a SAT or ACT tutor now. I used to love taking standardized tests and I always did well on them.

 

In my neck of the woods, I don't think I'd get $60/hour because the economy isn't as strong as where you are. I'd be happy with half that.

 

Thanks for the info! I appreciate the help!

 

Keep in mind that the SAT and PSAT are both set to change drastically in the next couple of years. College Board is supposed to announce specifics about the changes on March 5th. The PSAT will change the fall (2015) before the SAT change occurs (Spring 2016.) That might be a way to position yourself--someone who understands the changes. 

. There are about 2000 four year schools in America. About 36 of them reject more applicants than they accept, thus earning the title "highly competitive." 

 

I have a hard time believing that only 36 schools in the US admit less than 50% of applicants, especially if you count all the public universities which are out-of-state for any particular student, and thus are much more selective than they are for in-state applicants.

 

In fact, a bit of googling finds this list of 100 schools, whose acceptance rates are less than 33%.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

No bricks here. I'm impressed!

 

Did the company you work for test you or did you sign up and take it as an adult test taker?

 

I'm even more interested in being a SAT or ACT tutor now. I used to love taking standardized tests and I always did well on them.

 

In my neck of the woods, I don't think I'd get $60/hour because the economy isn't as strong as where you are. I'd be happy with half that.

 

Thanks for the info! I appreciate the help!

I signed up and took it at the local high school, which freaked out the proctor in the room. Afterward she asked if I worked for ETS - she thought I was sent to observe her! The kids didn't seem to care.

 

I had already been tutoring for a couple years, which helped, and let me play around with some things. For instance, I prep the essay with specific methods, but I wanted to see what would happen if you just wing it, so I winged it. Very hard to do, as it turns out, but now I tell kids that from experience.

 

2015/16 is the claimed deadline for the SAT to get itself more inline with Common Core. I suspect that means it will look more like the ACT, which just beat them in market share this year. We shall see if it wrecks the prep biz. I used to prep ACT, but found it wasn't any more effective than the kid just reading the guide.

[8filltheheart]

I have a hard time believing that only 36 schools in the US admit less than 50% of applicants, especially if you count all the public universities which are out-of-state for any particular student, and thus are much more selective than they are for in-state applicants.

 

In fact, a bit of googling finds this list of 100 schools, whose acceptance rates are less than 33%.

 

I agree.   The top 50 schools in that list had ~20% or less acceptance rate (Harvard had a 6% acceptance.)  Even NCSU had a acceptance rate of 49.6% and it is only ranked 101 out of national schools and not selective.  OOS applicants in certain states have a much lower rate of acceptance b/c of caps on OOS admissions.  (then there are other states where that is not an issues.   AL is one.   We discussed AL earlier this yr on this forum.   They have no restrictions on OOS vs. instate percentages.)   Here is a link with % for OOS students.   http://www.collegexpress.com/lists/list/percentage-of-out-of-state-students-at-public-universities/360/

 

But, the fact that there are 100s schools which accept 75% of the applicants is very true.   Most college bound students can find a home.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

I agree.   The top 50 schools in that list had ~20% or less acceptance rate (Harvard had a 6% acceptance.)  Even NCSU had a acceptance rate of 49.6% and it is only ranked 101 out of national schools and not selective.  OOS applicants in certain states have a much lower rate of acceptance b/c of caps on OOS admissions.  (then there are other states where that is not an issues.   AL is one.   We discussed AL earlier this yr on this forum.   They have no restrictions on OOS vs. instate percentages.)   Here is a link with % for OOS students.   http://www.collegexpress.com/lists/list/percentage-of-out-of-state-students-at-public-universities/360/

 

But, the fact that there are 100s schools which accept 75% of the applicants is very true.   Most college bound students can find a home.

 

 

I have a hard time believing that only 36 schools in the US admit less than 50% of applicants, especially if you count all the public universities which are out-of-state for any particular student, and thus are much more selective than they are for in-state applicants.

 

In fact, a bit of googling finds this list of 100 schools, whose acceptance rates are less than 33%.

 

 

You're right -- now I can't find the link to that 36 out of 2000 quote, which I thought was from an author on NPR-- gotta drop that from my "talk the parent back from the ledge" speech until I can get hard evidence.

 

Meanwhile, I found this Time article that puts a whole 'nother spin on things.  The argument is that the Common App has made it too easy for kids to apply to oodles of schools, some of which they probably have no business applying to -- those infamous "reach" schools.  With some cut-n-paste and a credit card, assuming they can get some schools' supplementary essays cranked out, then yeah, that would all add up to a huge uptick in number of applications at any school.  Assuming selection percentage remains sort of steady, just that can really skew the competitiveness numbers touted in US News, et. al.

 

It's also global, so you can't discount a flood of applicants from nations that, by comparison, only recently have anything resembling a middle class.

 

It's still a game...a huge, stressful, profitable game.

[regentrude]

The argument is that the Common App has made it too easy for kids to apply to oodles of schools, some of which they probably have no business applying to -- those infamous "reach" schools.  With some cut-n-paste and a credit card, assuming they can get some schools' supplementary essays cranked out, then yeah, that would all add up to a huge uptick in number of applications at any school.  Assuming selection percentage remains sort of steady, just that can really skew the competitiveness numbers touted in US News, et. al.

 

This may certainly be true - but I imagine that all those essays would be a huge deterrent. Some of these schools have writing supplements that require five different short essays for one school, and hardly any essays can do double duty since all these schools ask very different, and sometimes quite far fetched things.

DD spent an insane amount of time completing all those writing supplements for the selective schools (for which her stats make her a realistic candidate). This would be a deterrent to anybody but very determined applicants. It was a royal pain in the behind.

 

 

It's still a game...a huge, stressful, profitable game.

 

It sure is a game.  Also consider the  "vip app" or "fast app", better called "crap apps", that some colleges send out by the thousands in order to increase their number of applicants, and thus make themselves seem more selective.  As selectivity is one of the metrics in the US News college rankings, they are highly motivated to game the system.

[katilac]

She did this to motivate her kid?

 

More likely, she did it to write a book - she works in the industry, so I refuse to believe the thought only occurred to her after the fact. 

 

It sure is a game.  Also consider the  "vip app" or "fast app", better called "crap apps", that some colleges send out by the thousands in order to increase their number of applicants, and thus make themselves seem more selective.  As selectivity is one of the metrics in the US News college rankings, they are highly motivated to game the system.

 

Very much so! 

 

My mind is still boggling at the idea that a grown person, who has a professional job, not only scored at 3rd-grade math but had trouble progressing past that level with tutoring.  If her kids also struggle in math, I certainly hope a learning disability has occurred to her! I would be lining up evaluations first thing. Well, second thing - first thing would be to burn that placement test and swear the tutor to secrecy  :scared:

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Tangentially related, perhaps, but in keeping with the big scores / elite schools thing, found this on The Atlantic.

... a grown person, who has a professional job, not only scored at 3rd-grade math but had trouble progressing past that level with tutoring. 

 

I wonder if there is a subtle attempt to undermine education here.  After all, if a perceptive student sees that you can have a successful professional career, yet only score 560 on the Math SAT, why bother studying, or learning math?

[8filltheheart]

I wonder if there is a subtle attempt to undermine education here. After all, if a perceptive student sees that you can have a successful professional career, yet only score 560 on the Math SAT, why bother studying, or learning math?

Good pt, especially when combined with Stier had received a 410 on the verbal and a 480 on the math, scores she characterizes as “very bad.†Still, she attended Bennington College and went on to a successful career as a book publicist.

 

Yikes. Yeah, those scores are beyond "very bad." (I stopped even skimming the article at that pt.).