Religion and science

[Elisabet1]

We have been doing last visits through all the possible colleges on the plate now to make the final decision.  Daughter has been visiting the departments she has been interested in and everything. 

 

In one science department, the advisor for the undergrads, the one that was supposed to be so great, is a raging Athiest. And he was very outspoken to me about lt. I was downright nasty about Christians and the bible. I think he thought I was not a Christian. And when he went on about this stuff, and I told him my daughter was a Christian, he actually told me I should not be allowing it. He referred to the bible as a book written by men who were high on drugs and other such things. He went on to quote Carl Sagan about about something. He flat out told me there is no room for Christians in science. He said scientists might humor the Christians, but they laugh at them and never take them as serious scientists.  There was a whole big thing. The way this conversation started was when my daughter was being toured by a student worker, and I was taking care of my little one who was hamming it up for whatever adult who came through. He didn't take a liking to her, he was not disliking her at all. But as a result, when he came through where I was waiting, someone who worked there pointed him out and said we should talk with him, he is "the best" and the one who is in charge of a lot and will end up my daughter's advisor likely. The whole conversation was so far out there with him. And he told me to bring my daughter by his office next week and he would set her straight on all this. She needs to know if she is going to follow mythology BS instead of science, she does not belong pursuing her a science career. When I tried to tell him that we teach religious freedom in our home and I am not going to tell her what religion she can or cannot be, he told me I can and I need to. 

 

OK..so that brings me to the question. While this guy was obviously some sort major rude whatever....is it true that my daughter would be laughed out of her field if she pursues science? She is not going to pick THAT science, as she already had concerned about her religious beliefs and the science. That science was geology. There is plenty of geology to be studied without having to go heavily in to religion. But, even in a different science, such as chemistry, will she likely face this sort of attitude from anyone who finds out she is a Christian? Or is it just geology? or just this guy?

 

Thank you so much for help. She would rather know now, because she has no intentions of bending her religious beliefs to fit in with a career. She would rather pick a career that fits with her religion. 

[maize]

Do her religious beliefs require belief in young earth creationism? That could be a serious conflict in some scientific fields. But the idea that Christian belief and science cannot coexist is baloney; their are plenty of scientists who are believing Christians.

[Elisabet1]

Being a young Earth creationist was why she already thought Geology would not be a good idea. She had studied geology, but not where it took down the earth age questions. She is more interested in either geochem or environment/sustainability if she does that direction. These do not really deal in the young earth/old earth/big bang stuff. But, this guy did not even know she was a young Earth creationist. He just knew she was a Christian, not even the young Earth vs Old. And there are plenty of Christians who do not even believe in Creationism. His statements were blanket to all Christians.

[regentrude]

Sorry the guy was rude. It is possible to be a Christian and a serious scientist and be respected by one's colleagues - because science and religion ask different questions.

My following thoughts are of a general nature and not intended as assumptions about your and your DD's specific religious views, since I know nothing about those.

 

The one thing that is required of a scientist is to believe that nature is, in principle, accessible to human understanding, that there are systematic ways in which natural phenomena operate, that these are independent of personal faith, and that these can be observed and tested. So, if a person's religious opinions precluded this fundamental assumption that humans can know, they would be unable to be scientists.

It is also essential to separate which issues are scientific and accessible by scientific methods, and which are not. Only questions that can be answered by scientific means are scientific questions; the question of a creator who, by his very nature, can not be understood by humans is not a scientific question and should not enter any scientific debate. If a religious person is able to separate these issues, deal with scientific questions scientifically and reserve religion for religious questions, there is no reason she can not be a respected scientist. If, however, a person is unable to grasp the essence of what a scientific question and scientific methods mean, it would be a problem.

Lastly, I see one hallmark of a scientist in having a questioning, skeptical mind and being open to evidence. Thus, I could see a problem if somebody were entering a scientific debate with a preformed opinion that is based on non-scientific reasoning and were unwilling to consider observational evidence with an open mind. There is no room for "belief" in science. You don't "believe" in theories - you examine the evidence and the proposed explanation, and either accept that the theory explains the evidence as it is available to us at this moment, or not. This is an issue for some religious people.

 

So, without knowing any details about your specific views, I can not say whether they would pose an issue for your DD. I know, however, that there are, and have been throughout history, many Christian scientists. Being a scientist myself, I see no reason why a religious person should not be a scientist, or why science and religions have to be in conflict in the fist place - each should deal with its own questions and not meddle in the other's realm.

 

[maize]

Being a young Earth creationist was why she already thought Geology would not be a good idea. She had studied geology, but not where it took down the earth age questions. She is more interested in either geochem or environment/sustainability if she does that direction. These do not really deal in the young earth/old earth/big bang stuff. But, this guy did not even know she was a young Earth creationist. He just knew she was a Christian, not even the young Earth vs Old. And there are plenty of Christians who do not even believe in Creationism. His statements were blanket to all Christians.

I would ignore his opinion and avoid association with him! There's no reason your daughter should give up her dreams because of the opinion of one obviously biased professor. She should be prepared to deal with old earth and evolution in her classes, young earth ideas are not going to be given much credence in any mainstream science teaching. But if she is planning a career that doesn't revolve around geology or biology or astrophysics she can probably enjoy working in a scientific field.

[dbmamaz]

As an atheist, I think the guy is a serious jerk.  However, I agree with Regentrude that to be a scientist, you have to follow the facts where they lead.  There can be no off-limit topics.  Faith, otoh, is not a topic for science and should be none of her school-mate or professor or advisers business.  jmo.  

[8filltheheart]

He is just a plain idiot that doesn't know anything about the history of scientific advances. There are plenty of Christians, including priests for goodness sakes, who are scientists. Here is a list of Catholic scientists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_scientists

 

Fwiw, my ds just graduated with a chemE degree a couple of yrs ago and never encountered any reference to religion in science one way or the other. He is a very devout Catholic. That said, we are most definitely not YE and do not see any conflict between science and religion for the most part.....unless you get to moral issues and then, yes, there is conflict with some types of research that is conducted.

 

That said, there are some schools I would not want my kids to attend.

 

ETA: I thought I would add this bc evolution is the one area where it seems to be that some people believe that scientists cannot be Christians. He is one of the top scientists in the field.

 

Martin Nowak is one the leading mathematical biologists studying evolution. "Nowak works on the mathematical description of evolutionary processes including the evolution of cooperation and human language, the dynamics of virus infections, and human cancer. Currently, he is working on “prelife,†which is a formal approach to studying the origin of evolution." http://president.cua.edu/inauguration/martin-nowak.cfm

 

He is a professor at Harvard for mathematical Evolutionary Dynamics

http://www.ped.fas.harvard.edu/people/faculty/

http://president.cua.edu/inauguration/11NowakRelease.cfm

 

Btw, I wonder if he has ever heard of http://www.casinapioiv.va/content/accademia/en.html

Or. http://wn.com/vatican_observatory

[regentrude]

 do not see any conflict between science and religion for the most part.....unless you get to moral issues and then, yes, there is conflict with some types of research that is conducted.

 

Which is not restricted to religion; even atheists can have moral issues with some research and feel compelled by their conscience not to participate.

 

[Elisabet1]

My daughter would never compromise on her prolife beliefs. She is completely against all embryonic stem cell research and medical treatment, etc.  She also does not believe in evolution. That should not interfere with so many fields. Why is it that someone has to demand that someone accepts evolution in order to study astrophyics or any number of other fields that have plenty to it outside of whether a human began as a one cell thing or not. I do not think a heat surgeon needs to believe a patients ancestor from millions of years ago is a one celled creature in order to do heart surgery. And an astronaut does not need to believe he has ancestors from millions of years ago that were one celled creatures in order to fly the ship, or design a ship, or even take samples from a planet, or whatever else. Evolution is only 1 theory at all of everything in the universe. I feel like that guy was pushing his own personal agenda when it was not applicable. He had no respect for others religions. In our home, I teach my children tolerance of others religions and I would never ever assume or think that someone was not capable of science or anything else just based on their religion. That is very bigoted of him. 

 

Thanks so much for all the feedback! I think she will stay away from that one area of science, or at least that one department.

[8filltheheart]

My daughter would never compromise on her prolife beliefs. She is completely against all embryonic stem cell research and medical treatment, etc. She also does not believe in evolution. That should not interfere with so many fields. Why is it that someone has to demand that someone accepts evolution in order to study astrophyics or any number of other fields that have plenty to it outside of whether a human began as a one cell thing or not. I do not think a heat surgeon needs to believe a patients ancestor from millions of years ago is a one celled creature in order to do heart surgery. And an astronaut does not need to believe he has ancestors from millions of years ago that were one celled creatures in order to fly the ship, or design a ship, or even take samples from a planet, or whatever else. Evolution is only 1 theory at all of everything in the universe. I feel like that guy was pushing his own personal agenda when it was not applicable. He had no respect for others religions. In our home, I teach my children tolerance of others religions and I would never ever assume or think that someone was not capable of science or anything else just based on their religion. That is very bigoted of him.

 

Thanks so much for all the feedback! I think she will stay away from that one area of science, or at least that one department.

If she is a YEC, I would recommend staying away from astrophysics as well. It will be hard to reconcile the speed of light and YEC.

[Elisabet1]

If she is a YEC, I would recommend staying away from astrophysics as well. It will be hard to reconcile the speed of light and YEC.

This may sound silly, but I think she believes the Earth is young, but not the universe. And she does not believe in evolution of animals specifically. So if there are other things usually wrapped up in with evolution, she either does not have an opinion, or she simply has not thought about it, or it just is not there in her beliefs. See what I am saying?

 

So..there are some YEC who believe we have not been on the moon, or that there is no life on other planets. She believes we have been in other places and that there is life out there somewhere. She just doesn't believe the animal life here came from 1 cell creatures.

 

I hope I have explained that well. Same goes for me, I don't believe in any sort of evolution on this Earth. And I definitely believe in life out there..somewhere. I get excited when I read about similar class planets being found and so on. I think she might even like being a part of the creation of a biome on another planet. She LOVED visiting NASA and would be happy to have a job there in the future.

 

Oh, and she was interested in petroleum engineering but wishes we would find alternative fuels and such. She definitely wants to save the environment. She does not like the burning off of gas because it catches CO2 in the air and...well...she could explain it better. She was also trying to tell me of alternatives and better ways lower the CO2 levels on this planet. So she also believes in Global Warming, but says she learned in Chemistry stuff about...and then she goes on to a lot of technical speak referring to chemical levels being trapped in our atmosphere and so on.

 

I think if this prof were not such a close minded bigot, he would see that one can be a Christian and still have a lot to offer the science community. Religion does not exclude science.

[8filltheheart]

Based on the above post, I think she is going to run into difficulties with her beliefs if she wants to work someplace like NASA bc what you posted seems illogical to me and I don't know how you reconcile all of those concepts within most fields of science. Chemistry/engineering I don't think the issues would ever come up. But in astrophysics, definitely yes. Astrophysicists often come up with ideas that geologists model to test the theory.

 

Though I must admit that I am beyond following your posts bc the leap from chemistry and chemical engineering to geology and astrophysics and NASA........

[SoCal Sandra]

You and dd have visited other schools, right? Were you treated respectfully at the other schools? This school isn't the only game in town, is it?

 

The question, then, is whether this bigoted professor is an aberration, or merely someone who is speaking what others are secretly thinking. There may be no way to find out, but your daughter has now witnessed the fact that no number of advanced degrees can separate a human being from human bias or human foible. Decades as a trial attorney taught me this. Holding a degree in science does not exempt a person from bias.  

 

Consider this question: Have any scientific institutions ever excluded groups of people based on race or gender? If so, then no amount of scientific training removed bias from the hearts of the people involved, did it?

 

Consider this question: Have any scientific studies ever been influenced by money? Have clinical trials ever been shortened for primarily economic reasons or to get a product on the market first? If so, then people in scientific professions are influenced by other considerations, aren't they?

 

When you realize that science is not a separate, living entity, but a discipline that is only as good as the people employing it, you get a different perspective, don't you?

 

Your daughter may encounter prejudice, but if she lets bigoted people discourage her from pursuing science, she allows them to make science an exclusive club. Doesn't it scare you that the professor you encountered wields so much power? Independent of his bigotry, consider the manner in which he draws categorical conclusions. What evidence supports his statement that the Bible was written by people on drugs? All 66 books of the Bible? All 40 authors? Suppose he believes that certain visions in the Bible sound like drug induced hallucinations? Is it reasonable for him to make a sweeping proclamation about the entire Bible, which includes writings that describe no visions? You no doubt already crossed this school off the list, and for good reason. Granting that professor power over your daughter's future would be a big mistake.

 

Don't let one mean-spirited person dissuade your daughter. Best of luck to both of you.

 

 

 

 

[Ravin]

If she's capable of regurgitating the science for exams regardless of personal belief. even raging athiest jerks won't have an opening to use her religion against her. As long as she keeps in mind that she has to write papers, answer exam questions, etc., based on what she is taught, even if it's different from what she believes, she'll be fine in school.

 

Practical application in many fields may use things like evolution or deep Earth age as a working model, but that doesn't actually require believing anything about the deep history of life on Earth--just applying a model that fits what's observed.

 

In short, if she refrains from discussing religion with people like that professor, there's no reason at all she can't pursue a scientific career and be taken seriously.

[8filltheheart]

This is the young lady described as suffering from anxiety and stress and not liking working with people. She has switched from music, to chemistry and chemical engineering, to astrophysics.

 

Why would she like working at NASA? Doing what job exactly?

[creekland]

In any field that I've seen one can come across evangelical Christians and evangelical Atheists (and of course, the bulk of the people in between or on a different theological tail).  I suspect this is why it's commonly suggested not to talk about politics or religion - esp until you get to know folks.

 

Obviously, that prof is 100% wrong - esp considering some scientists (doing research no less) that middle son has run across in his Top 30 college attend the same church he does... but the man wants to believe his strong beliefs are shared by all and is being quite evangelical to see that it happens.  Personally, I'd stay away from him - far, far away.  If he's "the best" according to people in that office, chances are he runs the place - perhaps simply because he is so vocal (on other things too).  Whether he's right or not, people appear to be in awe of him and that's kind of scary as all of us are humans and can make mistakes, etc.

 

In general, I'd caution your daughter to keep her beliefs to herself or within close friends while in school.  With regards to "ancient" evolution, it certainly doesn't hurt to learn about and understand it even if it's not likely to actually be used much on 99.9% of jobs IRL.  Evolution (or natural selection) that is recent and seen can come into play more (esp in science), but the YECs I've come across don't have issues with that type.  I've heard there are other YECs out there who do have issues with it, but I've yet to see any - maybe those types skip public schools.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I have to agree with what others have said.  If your dd believes that the universe is old, but that God popped the Earth into orbit 8000 years ago or whatever, with a complete flora and fauna and humans... then yes, she will never be taken seriously in science, regardless of branch.  As a physics major, I took 2 years of chemistry (101, 102, and organic chem), 2 years of biology (1 year required, 2 additional classes by choice to have a biophysics concentration), in addition to WHO KNOWS how many hours of physics and math.  It is absolutely possible to be a Christian and a scientist- that professor was totally out of line- but to be a YEC/Creationist and a scientist?  I doubt it. 

 

Even if she did somehow manage to remain in the sciences, the constant onslaught of evidence to the contrary might destroy her faith in Christianity... which is totally unnecessary if she is able to embrace a less fundamental branch of Christianity.  NOTE:  I am not saying she SHOULD do this, only that she may need to choose between maintaining pure Biblical fundamentalism and pursuing the hard sciences. 

[creekland]

 It is absolutely possible to be a Christian and a scientist- that professor was totally out of line- but to be a YEC/Creationist and a scientist?  I doubt it. 

 

 

I certainly didn't mean it to go that way.  There are YEC scientists working in many fields (esp if parents of kids at our school are "average" for what is out there in the US).  This includes places like the NIH, chemical companies, modern physics research... and others.

 

The key (that I can see) with these folks is they don't disagree with anything seen (mutations, etc) as some portray YECs.  They merely disagree with "ancient" evolution.  Some feel the Universe is also young and just made to appear old.  Others feel the Universe is old and just earth/life is young.  In either case, it certainly doesn't involve what they are doing with their jobs, so there appears to be no issue with it at all that I can tell.  I know they are still working in their jobs.  I suspect they wouldn't be if there were problems.

 

Problems MAY lie in colleges - esp if one comes across similar profs...

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I certainly didn't mean it to go that way.  There are YEC scientists working in many fields (esp if parents of kids at our school are "average" for what is out there in the US).  This includes places like the NIH, chemical companies, modern physics research... and others.

 

The key (that I can see) with these folks is they don't disagree with anything seen (mutations, etc) as some portray YECs.  They merely disagree with "ancient" evolution.  Some feel the Universe is also young and just made to appear old.  Others feel the Universe is old and just earth/life is young.  In either case, it certainly doesn't involve what they are doing with their jobs, so there appears to be no issue with it at all that I can tell.  I know they are still working in their jobs.  I suspect they wouldn't be if there were problems.

 

Problems MAY lie in colleges - esp if one comes across similar profs...

 

 

I agree that working in the industry there are many jobs around where evolution/Earth age are irrelevant.  However, in order to gain the degree necessary to work in those fields would require someone to pass many classes which would expect student's to understand and apply concepts that oppose YEC. 

 

Statements that the universe might have been made to "appear old" are the sorts of things that will be laughed at in the sciences. They are illogical explanations to make the evidence fit the Biblical recounting of creation.  If this is a person's particular belief, than they are free  to hold that belief.  But it is unscientific, so it would need to stay out of the classroom.  There are also many people who are able to segregate their religion from their science, and so maintain two opposing views of the world and be successful with that.   

[8filltheheart]

I certainly didn't mean it to go that way. There are YEC scientists working in many fields (esp if parents of kids at our school are "average" for what is out there in the US). This includes places like the NIH, chemical companies, modern physics research... and others.

 

The key (that I can see) with these folks is they don't disagree with anything seen (mutations, etc) as some portray YECs. They merely disagree with "ancient" evolution. Some feel the Universe is also young and just made to appear old. Others feel the Universe is old and just earth/life is young. In either case, it certainly doesn't involve what they are doing with their jobs, so there appears to be no issue with it at all that I can tell. I know they are still working in their jobs. I suspect they wouldn't be if there were problems.

 

Problems MAY lie in colleges - esp if one comes across similar profs...

 

If anyone held the belief that the universe was just made to feel old, they would have a difficult time being an astrophysicist. Same with the universe being old and Earth just popping into existence later. That doesn't mean they couldn't hold those beliefs and be a chemical engineer, but how one would ever make it to astrophysicist level and maintain that view and reconcile the multitude of discrepancies scientifically, I can't imagine.

 

There are fields of science where you can be a professional and not have these issues in your daily work, but astrophysics doesn't seem like an obvious field to get involved in in a secular place of emplyment like NASA. Maybe working for a place like Answers in Genesis, yes, bc they would support your POV. But, secularly, no way.

[creekland]

I don't know any parents working in Astrophysics.  I do know of at least one (where the kids, at least, are YEC - I guess that doesn't necessarily reflect on the parents, but I suspect it does) working in an ultra modern physics lab with no problems.  I can't imagine YEC topics come up much at all.  They simply don't apply to what is being done in the lab. That would be true of most actual jobs IRL.

 

I definitely agree that one ought to have a working knowledge of all things science and I suspect they do.  They'd have had to in order to get their degrees - advanced degrees for many of them.

 

I know I saw poll results recently listing how many believed in evolution vs creation (I don't think it did YEC, but I'm not sure as I didn't put it all into memory).  The numbers (for creation) were higher than I expected.  I used to think we had higher percentages due to being rural, but now I don't really think that.  I suspect our percentages are pretty close to the poll results (not all creation folks are YEC).  These folks work in many different places - including science fields.

 

Part of the reason I took the time to learn about YEC was due to seeing how many educated folks believe it (or at least their kids do) and it got me curious.  ;) I haven't looked into any of it recently (last few years) and don't pay attention to it now either.  To me, I like having a working knowledge of how significant portions of people believe, but it has no more relevance than how they believe about Atlantis or the Nazca lines.  It's just a curiosity.  Even as a Christian I don't believe it has any bearing on salvation.  God could have done things in many different ways IMO.

 

[Elisabet1]

She does have a lot of anxiety and does jump around in what she wants to do. That is why I am encouraging her to stick with an LAC where she can try a variety of things and then later, in grad school, pick a specific major. Maybe I am wrong, but it would seem to me if she is at an LAC and tries a few subjects and then decides she wants to be in chemistry and still go the engineering route, she can do that as a masters degree. I already pulled up a few universities to see what the requirements were for admission to some engineering programs and an undergrad degree in physics or chemistry or a variety of other things would give the basis they require. If she decides she wants to switch to something completely different, she will be able to. I really think this is the best route.

 

[creekland]

She does have a lot of anxiety and does jump around in what she wants to do.

 

MANY, possibly even the majority of students, aren't sure of what they want to do when they go to college.  Many who are sure end up changing majors too.  It's good to go in with an idea of fields one likes, but also to be open to seeing something "loved" once there.  No matter how much we show our kids in their youth, there are always things they discover once out in the world and many of those can lead to a nice degree and a nice living too.

 

I never worry when kids aren't sure.

 

[8filltheheart]

I couldn't think of his name earlier, but finally remembered.

 

You might want to have her listen to some of the talks by John Lennox. He is a Protestant that does not believe in YEC, but if IRC, supports ID. (It has been close to 2yrs since I heard one of his talks, so I only have vague recollections of his actual position.) His perspective might prepare your dd for the scientific arguments she is going to face but in a much gentler way by someone who most definitely is a practicing Christian.

 

http://johnlennox.org/jresourcess/audio/

[Jenny in Florida]

I wonder if your daughter might be happier and more supported at a Christian university if she truly wants to pursue a degree in science? Honestly, especially for a young woman who struggles with anxiety, I can't imagine it would be healthy for her to try and function in an environment in which, in order to achieve a long-term academic goal, she will have to constantly bump up against material that conflicts with her religious beliefs. I'm sure someone who was really determined to do so, for whatever reason, could devote four years to memorizing and regurgitating information that he or she simply doesn't accept as truth, but I can't imagine that would be a very fulfilling educational experience. I suspect it would be frustrating and that a person taking that path might feel confused and alienated from both her classmates and professors and from her religious community.

 

It just seems like an unnecessarily difficult path to walk without a very compelling motivation.

[8filltheheart]

She does have a lot of anxiety and does jump around in what she wants to do. That is why I am encouraging her to stick with an LAC where she can try a variety of things and then later, in grad school, pick a specific major. Maybe I am wrong, but it would seem to me if she is at an LAC and tries a few subjects and then decides she wants to be in chemistry and still go the engineering route, she can do that as a masters degree. I already pulled up a few universities to see what the requirements were for admission to some engineering programs and an undergrad degree in physics or chemistry or a variety of other things would give the basis they require. If she decides she wants to switch to something completely different, she will be able to. I really think this is the best route.

If she majors in physics, she is pretty, much not going to have much of a choice about grad school bc a bachelors in physics is pretty much like a bachelors in any other straight science discipline, not very employable except for low level work.

 

Have you looked at LACs that have 3-2 programs? A lot of them do. Students spend 3 yrs taking core classes at the LAC and transfer to the engineering school for 2 yrsto complete the degree.

 

How much does she enjoy math? I mean really like math? The fact that she has not been excited to work on BC on her own for the AP exam.....is that bc of how she feels about math in general? Or is math one of her absolute favorite subjects? Engineering and physics are going to be math. Ds was working on either a mechanics 2 problem or a modern problem yesterday that was 5 pages long of math that the most I could identify was a few numbers in the midst of it. The math is what weeds out those who love the science from those that can succeed in the field in engineering and I am starting to see that in physics as well.

 

What are the non- LAC schools like? Tech oriented colleges do offer some LA degrees. But, then there are universities that offer a full spectrum of degrees and she could explore whatever she wanted at that single school as an undergrad. So she could take an intro to engineering class and see if it is something that she might like. She can explore the various depts. She can build a double major crossing disciplines of interest.

 

There are so many more options than either or. But,I think the best advice in this thread was given to you by Jenny.

[Jen in NY]

How much does she enjoy math? I mean really like math? The fact that she has not been excited to work on BC on her own for the AP exam.....is that bc of how she feels about math in general? Or is math one of her absolute favorite subjects? Engineering and physics are going to be math. Ds was working on either a mechanics 2 problem or a modern problem yesterday that was 5 pages long of math that the most I could identify was a few numbers in the midst of it. The math is what weeds out those who love the science from those that can succeed in the field in engineering and I am starting to see that in physics as well.

I have been thinking this in all the threads about this particular student. I know a LOT of you moms have older engineering students than mine (she's only a freshman), but even in the two semesters of classes so far, there has been mostly math. Multivariable Calc (comes after AP-BC), Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, plus the Physics and Engineering Seminars ..... really just thinly veiled applied math at this point. Lots more to come. And the computer programming has the same feel... info in class... problem sets to complete.

 

It will be more and more applied as the years go by, but if your dd is not gung-ho about the math, Astrophysics or Engineering may be a real slog for her. A school around here (Rochester Institute of Technology) has some degrees in the "Engineering Technologies" category that seem a little less math heavy... it might be interesting to investigate their requirements as compared to their straight engineering counterparts.

 

Maybe have her look at a course requirement flow chart from a couple of degrees she is considering with a course catalogue in a second window? That way she can read the course descriptions and see what she thinks?

[Nan in Mass]

We told our engineering-oriented children that unless they didn't mind doing hours of math problems every day, they weren't going to make it through engineering school.  Engineering is one of those weird careers where studying the engineering and doing the engineering are usually quite different, so I don't think you have to love doing math problems to make it through engineering school, but I do think that you have to "not mind" doing endless pages of word problems and almost nothing else for YEARS in order to make it through.  Most of  the people I know are sort of intrigued by the puzzle aspect and don't mind the endless juggling required to get things into a form that allows them to make some sort of progress towards an answer.  It might be hard but they don't consider it an awful sort of hard.  It helps if you don't mind doing the problems as part of a study group.  That keeps you from getting too lonely and you can help each other along.  We were talking about this the other day.  Most people we know did not really enjoy engineering school.  It was a means to an end.  On the other hand, they didn't hate it either and it seems like many of them were under the impression that they couldn't really do anything else, judging by looking at what their non-STEM friends were doing for their degrees.  Not all of them, of course.

 

Nan

[creekland]

I wonder if your daughter might be happier and more supported at a Christian university if she truly wants to pursue a degree in science? Honestly, especially for a young woman who struggles with anxiety, I can't imagine it would be healthy for her to try and function in an environment in which, in order to achieve a long-term academic goal, she will have to constantly bump up against material that conflicts with her religious beliefs. I'm sure someone who was really determined to do so, for whatever reason, could devote four years to memorizing and regurgitating information that he or she simply doesn't accept as truth, but I can't imagine that would be a very fulfilling educational experience. I suspect it would be frustrating and that a person taking that path might feel confused and alienated from both her classmates and professors and from her religious community.

 

It just seems like an unnecessarily difficult path to walk without a very compelling motivation.

 

I've been thinking about this post this morning, and decided to add to it (so not directed at you, Jenny, but for the OP).  There are colleges that come at science from a YEC point of view (all Christian colleges, of course).  A couple that kids from our school regularly attend are Liberty and Cedarville.  Of those, Cedarville is tougher to get into (need higher stats), but not as good with the finances, so be wary.

 

Grove City is another kids from our high school go to regularly (need even higher stats for this one), but I'm unsure if it's YEC totally.  I just know some YEC kids have gone there.

 

A couple others I have heard "of," but have no IRL knowledge of are Biola and Le Tourneau.  I noticed some fellow hive students have gone to or been accepted to these, so a quick pm to their parents could provide some info.

 

As with any school, check to see where recent grads have gone to be certain the school is what you want - esp within the science fields as just having "a" degree doesn't necessarily equate with getting a job.  I, personally, haven't checked out any of them, but the grads from our high school who have gone to the first three have been quite happy (at least those I hear from).  Grove City also has some engineering options.