"Outside the box" for high school?

[shanvan]

Okay, I have a question.  For those unconventional courses, do you label them as such on transcripts, or do you find a way to fit them within the conventional labels?   

 

I have heard Andrew Pudewa discuss interest-led learning followed by labeling it in a way that colleges can understand.  Somehow, to me, that seems like it would take away from the uniqueness of the course followed.  Or, maybe there is a happy medium?

 

Hope I'm not de-railing.  My mind is on transcripts so much lately.

[Chrysalis Academy]

You prioritize. You realize that not all topics in the textbook are of equal importance, that some are there just for exposure, some will be covered in another course, and you focus. If you can not make this call, get assistance from somebody who can.

 

I teach physics at a university. The intro textbooks are huge - but nobody covers the entire text. It contains way too much material to be thorough, it would be the "drinking from the firehose" approach. I chose what is important and foundational and cover the essentials thoroughly to mastery, cover less important topics in a survey manner for exposure, and omit material that will be taught in a another class (for example, any standard chemistry course covers atomic structure and some thermo).

You can also set focus areas and chose among micro- and cell biology, structure and form of organisms, genetics, environmental biology where you want to concentrate.

 

 

 

I see the electives precisely as the way for the student to elect his special focus areas beyond the required class work. For a science enthusiast, it makes sense that the electives would be mainly science (not every course has to be a full credit, too.)

 

We do the 5x4 for the core subjects, which means roughly five hours of daily work for the student. So, two hours of electives, plus some summer work, leaves quite a bit of room to follow specific interests. And students who are really passionate about their studies, like 8FillTheHeart's DS gladly put in 8-10 hour school days.

 

 

 

Content wise, I see absolutely no downside. I see the main disadvantage in the lack of materials for integrated science studies in the US. You would have to design your own course, pull together resources, combine them in a suitable manner. Very time consuming, and requires expertise to know what builds on each other, where to begin, where to omit and postpone. Also, it limits the opportunities for outsourcing. But you could absolutely do it and organize the transcript by subject and find some box at the end to describe the out-of-the-box studies.

 

Thanks, regentrude.  This actually does help a lot.  I will confess that in my "free time" I am working on doing just the bolded!  Luckily, I have several years to figure it out.  :lol:  It's nice to hear one of my science mentors say that it doesn't sound completely nuts, though.  ;)

[regentrude]

Okay, I have a question.  For those unconventional courses, do you label them as such on transcripts, or do you find a way to fit them within the conventional labels?   

 

I have heard Andrew Pudewa discuss interest-led learning followed by labeling it in a way that colleges can understand.  Somehow, to me, that seems like it would take away from the uniqueness of the course followed.  Or, maybe there is a happy medium?

 

One way is to find a descriptive title that is not too far out, and write a course description.

DD has on her transcript a course called Culinary Chemistry. The course description explains what exactly that entails, and the title conveys that it is not solely a cooking course.

She also has English courses entitled Medieval and Renaissance Literature, and Fantasy Literature. Does not have to be "English 9". The titles are specific enough to give an idea of the content, while still being understandable.

You could also work with subtitles. We have P.E.:Rock climbing and mountaineering

 

I think it would be beneficial if the course title clearly conveyed something about the course content and subject area. So, I'd stay away from too esoteric titles. A course title "Metamorphoses" does not make it clear whether this is an English, biology, or philosophy class and is doing the student a disservice.

Admissions people may want "interesting", but have limited time to spend. I'd like to make things easy for them.

 

ETA: One way of accomplishing this would be to have enough in-the-box titles for standard courses and reserve the creative unusual class names for courses beyond the standard requirements. We have covered the straight forward science courses with standard names, and the coming semester DD has a credit entitled Physics: Scientific Research Project.

[8filltheheart]

Rose,

 

One thing to keep in mind is that as they get older and develop strong interests, they tend to have great knowledge in that area of interest.   They know what areas the need to expand on or delve more deeply into.   Designing courses together is a much different scenario than designing them by yourself for younger kids.   Ds would seek out resources that had he had found, I would find the resources recommended from TC lectures, etc.   We would review the options before making final decisions.   Then we would put together objectives and approx the amt of time a specific course would require.

 

Dd is already starting to do similar things for her interests (Russian lang/culture, linguistics, Tolkien/Lewis philosophy, etc)   

 

FWIW, the main core 4 English, 4 math, 4 science, 4 history, and 4 foreign lang......that adds up to only 5 credits per yr if taken to that level.   Many kids do not take 4 history or 4 foreign lang.   All of my kids have taken a minimum of 7 credits/yr.   Multiple more is really not that unusual if taking courses dual enrolled.  

[Chrysalis Academy]

That makes a lot of sense! I have always enjoyed how you describe how you and your high schoolers work together to create courses.  We have begun that in a small way this year in science, as dd has expressed what she is interested in studying, and I have found appropriate resources, as well as helping her to understand what prerequisites she needs (math, basic physics, etc.) in order to study things she is interested in.  I look forward to working with her closely in the future to design her dream classes!

 

And yes, I can see how DE would allow you to pack in "extra" credits, too.  I can see do "dream" science for 3 years and then a semester of Physics and a semester of Chemistry at the JC, which would give us our cake and let us eat it, too!

[Teachin'Mine]

The tricky bit isn't the being outside the box.  Most of us have ideas about that (we wouldn't be reading this thread if we didn't lol), and if we don't, our children probably do.  The tricky bit is getting back into the box once we step out of it.  Going to college is essentially stepping back into the box.  Even the alternative-y places like Hampshire prefer to see evidence of box-ability.

 

Nan

 

I'm not sure that I would define college as another box similar to traditional high school.  I might describe it more as a lean-to.  lol 

 

No, that doesn't work either as it has a ceiling and I don't think of a college education as having ceilings.  I suppose you could look at a subject course and say it looks similar to a boxy high school subject class, but other than having a lecturer and tests to take, it's so different and it's certainly not the totality of the learning in that subject.  There's research and internships and clubs and guest speakers and study groups and experiments, and  ... So the knowledge might come from within the class, but that knowledge is brought into so many different areas and used in a variety of ways.   Boxes have had their place within dd's education, but we've always managed to find ways to explore outside of the box.  In comparison, community college feels very unboxy and gives incredible freedom intellectually, and otherwise.

 

But I do agree that if one avoided all textbook use and didn't get practice with skills often needed for success in college, then the college transition could be difficult.  As in most things, I think balance is the key. 

 

Love reading the ways you and others have found to school "outside the box"!   Great thread!

[8filltheheart]

That makes a lot of sense! I have always enjoyed how you describe how you and your high schoolers work together to create courses.  We have begun that in a small way this year in science, as dd has expressed what she is interested in studying, and I have found appropriate resources, as well as helping her to understand what prerequisites she needs (math, basic physics, etc.) in order to study things she is interested in.  I look forward to working with her closely in the future to design her dream classes!

 

And yes, I can see how DE would allow you to pack in "extra" credits, too.  I can see do "dream" science for 3 years and then a semester of Physics and a semester of Chemistry at the JC, which would give us our cake and let us eat it, too!

 

I forgot another source.  I also go on college websites and read their course descriptions and then go to their bookstore and see what books are required/recommended for that course.

[momto2Cs]

I am loving this thread! With ds hitting 8th grade next year, we are definitely getting close to the high school mark, and since he plans on attending the local JC before transferring to a 4 year college, I feel we have some leeway with high school courses. One of the plans I currently have is to have him spend his 9th grade year reading some of the works behind the current Steampunk movement - Sebastian (A Lady) kindly provided me with her lists for this, which include works by Dickens, Verne, and many others, so I am looking at this as an English lit course that exposes him to good literature while allowing him to follow his interests.

 

And Rose, I am right there with you in science thoughts! I don't have a lot planned yet, but I know of books I want him to read that, while touching deeply on certain areas of science, fall outside the textbook "box". I'm looking at setting up courses somewhat along the lines of this fabulous post -- Physics for Poets -- by lewelmama.

 

Language arts and history may be a little more in-the-box. We're working our way through K12's Human Odyssey, finishing it in 9th grade, and then we'll read through their American Odyssey. We add in supplemental reading in areas of interest, watch documentaries, and so on. I'd also like him to read Zinn in high school. In language arts, we're working through WWS1 at the moment, may do WWS2 next year, and I'm considering Lost Tools of Writing, vs. Lively Art of Writing, vs. a Brave Writer online course at some point. As far as math, he's hooked on Life of Fred.

 

For electives, I am good with unschooling. And we're trying to decide what to do with languages!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

So Gamer Boy wants to work in the gaming industry. Right now he's set his sights on QA, but that could easily change. Coming from a gamer family, I have some ideas on what would be the ideal education for someone who wants to enter that field. We know a few people who either know people who work at a large game company or have interviewed and can tell us what they are looking for. I found some articles about the top gaming schools and quite a few still require either an accredited diploma or a GED.  :thumbdown:  I'm hoping they will change their views in the coming years or I'll have to try to change them or we'll just apply to ones that don't require those things. I looked at some of the courses they offer for his field and some of them sound like something that I could do on my own.

 

The thought that keeps running through my head is I have a chance to make his transcript look like something that a university as well as a game design company could want right away. I have a unique opportunity and I really don't want to squander it by fitting neatly into other people's boxes. My state has practically no regulations, so I can get a little more creative. I plan to give him the best education I can and open as many doors as possible.

 

There was recently a kid who took a year off before going to college to make a Skyrim mod that took 2000 hours to make and was basically an application to work for Bethesda. I would love to have ds have a huge project like that at the end of high school. I don't think he would do a huge mod, but I can see him learning how to create his own website, review games, write some articles, write some guides, get active in betas and post about bugs. So that is one of our goals. He hasn't shown too much interest yet in learning how to program. I'm sure that will come with time. I've unschooled him in computer science so far since he has picked up so many things just through playing pc games.

 

Some of the ideas I've pulled together from courses from FullSail and Digipen were:

 

Analysis of Game Design - I like the idea of incorporating his writing into his gaming experiences. This is where the website and game reviews would be credited.

 

Mythology & Folklore - He's already taken the NME and MME last year. We're taking a year off, but then picking right back up with it for high school. Mythology and Folklore is key to many games' stories.

 

Historical Archetypes & Mythology -  This is a FullSail course and it looks so interesting. I'll have to let him decide which mythology course he would be interested in and the include the archetypes elsewhere if necessary. This could also easily turn into an English course.

 

Creative Writing & Storytelling - This was from a Digipen course. Either the storytelling portion could be worked into some other courses or it could be a standalone course.

 

World Religion & Philosophy - Ok not so out of the box. He took World Religion in 6th, but it wasn't that thorough. My goal is to have him be able to identify the world religions, philosophy and tie into his World Geography and Culture course he's currently taking to give him  a well rounded view of the world.

 

History of Warfare & Weaponry - this could fill in a Fine Arts credit. In 6th grade I had him start a notebook and draw weapons and note who used them and how. I could expand on that.  He has several weapons books he hasn't had a chance to dig through.

 

History of World Architecture - We've found many games draw inspiration from cultures and their architecture.

     http://www.architecturecourses.org/architecture-history

 

WWI & WWII - for history, we plan to spend a year on these two wars.

 

Science Fiction & Fantasy Literature  - I have been wanting to do this course for some time. It could be another English course.

 

And then there's all the fun Coursera and Great Course lectures to choose from. And I have a lot of Great Course lectures to choose from. :blushing:

 

I plan to let him choose from some of these and hopefully he'll give me some input as to what else he is interested in. He's at the  :blink:  stage right now. Currently he's writing the final essays in WWS1. Instead of Caesar for his chronological narrative, he chose the Battle of Kursk and will be doing a personal description of the tanks involved. After he's done with WWS1, we'll take a break and try out the World of Warcraft in School LA curriculum I found that is designed for 8th graders. I am really excited about it and think he will end up learning a lot and enjoy writing.

 

Is your son familiar with The Writer's Journey: Mythic Structure for Writers by Christopher Volger?  I read an older edition many years ago. It seems like the sort of thing he might enjoy.

[dovrar]

I am SOOOOOO loving this thread!  I have just recently seen how a non traditional transcript might be the very thing that gets a child into the school of choice, I have one question though, for those who have BTDT...how does this affect being eligible for scholarships/financial aid and the like?

 

Thanks!

[regentrude]

 I have one question though, for those who have BTDT...how does this affect being eligible for scholarships/financial aid and the like?

 

Scholarships and financial aid are based on parental income (need based) or test scores/GPA (merit), and maybe extra essays.

I have not seen any evidence that the names of the courses on the transcript play any role in the scholarship process.

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

No, but that looks perfect! I know they worked the Joseph Campbell Hero's Journey into WoW in School.

 

I don't remember many details of the book, other than that it was interesting and I enjoyed it.  I think you may find it in your library.

[dovrar]

 

 

Jackie, I would love to hear more about the "Maps, Models, and Metaphors" course when you are ready. It sounds intriguing.

 

 

Me too.  ;)

[lewelma]

In our local public high schools, project-based learning is all the rage. Kids are given pretend real-life problems like building a house or managing a garden, split into pretend families (teams) and then asked what they'd do to solve it, using the scientific knowledge they're supposed to be researching up themselves.

 

 

But does the project based learning actually replace traditional coursework, or is it in addition?

I can easily see the value of the projects as applications of classroom learning. I have, however, a hard time seeing how doing the projects instead of a thorough math and science instruction, for example, would be sufficient. Researching scientific knowledge by themselves is all nice, but I have doubts whether this generates the same mastery a good biology, physics, and chemistry course would have (that it's better than a crummy course goes without saying)

 

Regentrude, this science program sounds like it takes the same approach as ChemComm -- Chemistry in the Community.  The ACS wrote the textbook to focus on real life problems in such a way as to introduce the traditional chemistry material in a systematic manner. The kids research the real life question, do some investigation on it, and then the teacher introduces the chemistry material required to answer the question, then they finish the investigation. It is very systematic and well done. Not sure if there are other textbooks written in a similar way for Bio or physics.

[lewelma]

Rose, I totally know what you mean by a more integrated approach. Not all kids do well with science material that is far removed from their everyday experience. I took this approach to help a fellow boardie whose son needed to learn the basics through more integrated topics http://forums.welltr...astronomy-help/ . Thought it might get you thinking

Also, I totally agree with Regentrude. If you are going to use a textbook, don't do the whole book! Cut out entire units, survey others, go deep with a few.  I will be taking the other approach with my ds -- stretching the course out over 2 years to make room for the extras (investigations, research papers on societal issues, and TTC physics in your daily life.)

[Chrysalis Academy]

Rose, I totally know what you mean by a more integrated approach. Not all kids do well with science material that is far removed from their everyday experience. I took this approach to help a fellow boardie whose son needed to learn the basics through more integrated topics http://forums.welltr...astronomy-help/ . Thought it might get you thinking

 

Also, I totally agree with Regentrude. If you are going to use a textbook, don't do the whole book! Cut out entire units, survey others, go deep with a few.  I will be taking the other approach with my ds -- stretching the course out over 2 years to make room for the extras (investigations, research papers on societal issues, and TTC physics in your daily life.)

 

Oh, Ruth, I think I love you!  :001_wub:  I've seen some of your other plans, but not this one.  I am very grateful.  I feel like I can put something like this together for biology, but not so much for astronomy/physics/chemistry, so this is awesome! 

 

I have a question for you and regentrude and others who are talking about not doing the whole book, and/or stretching the course over two years.  First, if you aren't doing the whole book, do you just give the credit based on hours spent on studies? I know that for some topics you give time-based credit, and for others, like math or languages, you give credit based on an accepted amount of content covered.  I'm inferring that with science, it's kosher to give a "Physics credit" when you have done 150-180 hours worth of study, even if you haven't covered the whole book in that time.  Is that what you are saying?  (I understand that I need to get advice, here or from syllabi, about what topics are considered critical if I don't already know. I've seen a post of regentrude's where she does this for Physics).

 

Second but related question: when you spread a course out over two years, do you give two credits?  I'm assuming if you are covering more material/spending 300+ hours on the topic, you can give two science credits.  Or maybe for transcript purposes you give credit for two separate classes, even if you actually studied in a more integrated way.  How are you handling that for the class you describe, Ruth?

 

Thanks!

[8filltheheart]

Rose,

 

I probably shouldn't answer, but I would only give 2 credits if the integrated material was actually the equivalent of the 2 courses individually worth 1 credit.   I would not give science credit based on time, but on some clearly defined scope even if that scope is covered non-traditionally.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I've been thinking about this, I can see your point but disagree as well(for reasons that Jackie so clearly defined). I don't see a problem with others using a box, if that works for them. Personally I'm here reading b/c a "box" doesn't fit my goals or visions for our hs and more importantly it doesn't fit my ds. A major reason we choose to hs was because I knew traditional schooling would fail him.  I'm still hoping to glean some ideas from others though so I don't have to entirely create everything on my own. 

 

I'm not sure you understand exactly what I mean by "box," but that's OK. Apparently my thoughts about "outside the box" are....well....outside the box. ;)

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 

One thing to keep in mind is that as they get older and develop strong interests, they tend to have great knowledge in that area of interest.   They know what areas the need to expand on or delve more deeply into.   Designing courses together is a much different scenario than designing them by yourself for younger kids. 

 

This is where we are now. We've been talking about next semester and the next few years. She's started doing some research so we can continue our talk later.

 

Any links to threads about how designing courses together looks in your house? Sorry if I've missed them in this thread. I still need to go back through and read more closely.

[FaithManor]

I think one of the most unusual things we've done is mentoring a competitive rocketry team which then lead

to teaching a for credit "introductory aerospace engineering " class for the team members without a

textbook or any of the conventional tools normally used by high school teachers. Dh and I developed a

course syllabus in conjunction with some NASA engineers. The local private school awards credit for it

since dh pursued an approval process with the administration. The PS will not consider it because it is

not taught on site by one of their science teachers, but since they accept transfecredits from the private

school, our two PS team members get credit because their parents made a deal with the private school to

pay tuition for one credit hr., we send letter and narrative grades to the administrator, and then it is

transferred back to the PS at the end of the year. No, we don't get any tuition money. That said, we do

not care about that part.

 

The class involves the exploration of physics, engineering, aerospace technology, and applied mathematics

all with a dry erase board, a lap top with RocSim software, and hobby rocketry supplies. Nothing about the

class is standard. I'm very pleased about that aspect.

 

Eldest ds is studying JAVA programming with a group of professionals online. It's a study group for

certification and not a high school course per se and yet very worthy of being awarded credit if we choose

to do so.

 

Our literature studies are styled.

 

Icelandic has been a combo of youtube instructional videos, the very few books I could come up with, skype

lessons with an instructor from Oxford, and much email and written communication with two Icelandic

college students. It was impossible to find a traditional path for this language. We leave for Iceland

June 27th. If ds can get us around the country using mostly Icelandic for all basic communications such as

ordering in restaurants, purchases, getting directions, making simple conversation, reading road signs, etc.then we will award him an A in Introductory Icelandic...that's his final exam. The most expensive

single "test" we will probably ever pay for on this homeschooling journey LOL!!

[swimmermom3]

This is where we are now. We've been talking about next semester and the next few years. She's started doing some research so we can continue our talk later.

 

Any links to threads about how designing courses together looks in your house? Sorry if I've missed them in this thread. I still need to go back through and read more closely.

 

Please! I think we are getting to the point where ds having a hand in designing his courses would be a good thing. That should leave him with less to argue about with me. :tongue_smilie:

[FaithManor]

Breaking up a text over two years? I have done this with ds' s zoology. It is a 200 level, sometimes 300

depending on the college, text and HEADY! I can see why it is such a tough course at Michigan State. The

amount of memorization is brutal. It is normally covered over 2 semesters, Zoology 1 and 2 so I have

doubled that to four semesters for ds and will give credit for Zoology 1 and Zoology 2 on his transcript...one credit each year. It is such a difficult topic that even with some online tutoring by my PH.D

biology cousin, the reality is we can't accomplish it at the level of depth he would as a 20 or 21 year

old college student with a professor and a study group, but he sure is learning a lot and it has fostered

a great love of the subject in him....lots of good things.

 

We also broke down an introductory astronomy text over three semesters because we wanted to add a lot

of night sky telescope viewing to the course and well, it's Michigan...one can go many, many days in a row

without a decent cloudless night! He was keeping a star gazing journal and simply needed more time. We

awarded one credit for the academic work in the year that it began and are listing his star gazing

journal, telescope 4H presentation, and the community night sky event that he organized under extra

curriculars activities.

[swimmermom3]

I think there is something to this. I mentioned on the other thread that I felt like I was stepping out of the box in several areas, even though someone else might describe me as being boxed in by my choices.

 

For me, working outside the box is about stepping out of my comfort zone and doing something that I'm not sure will be approved by outside reviewers (ie, college adcons) as I did with the Roots of Steampunk literature study.

Sometimes it is about making choices that aren't common with homeschoolers in my area [such as using OSU German Online or Lukeion Latin instead of using Rosetta Stone or Latina Christiana for high school]. 

Sometimes it means leaving behind the popular homeschool curriculum providers and submitting a course syllabus for Advanced Placement Review.

It was something I felt when we chose to work through AOPS math books and use old Dolciani texts as a back up.  I definitely felt it when I sold off all our copies of Saxon math and Singapore elementary level books. I only know one person IRL who is using AOPS and Dolciani.  (And she probably blames me for getting HER into that particular box.)

 

Someone else might well look at our choices and decide that we are trapped in trying to meet outside expectations.  But each of these choices has had some feeling of being lonely and working without a safety net.  It's the feeling I get when someone asks what we use in homeschool and my answers aren't easy, branded labels; but rather something that they may never have heard of, or even something of our own creation (literature & history).

 

Do we need a homeschool rewrite of the Little Boxes song?

 

Sebastian, you have hit a key point in the bolded part above. Homeschooling was okay in elementary and middle school. It was scary to make the decision to do so, but at least I knew a few people who homeschooled in our swim club and this made things less lonely. My SILs homeschooled, but their methodology kind of terrified me. Everything changed when ds announced that he wanted to do classes at home again after being at the ps high school full time fall semester of 9th grade. In Oregon, it's an irreversible decision. People that were kind of okay with our earlier homeschooling thought we were crazy. I know of no one in my area IRL that does what we do. It is lonely and I think I have lost some of my nerve in being a bit more adventuresome with our courses, because I want to reassure people that we are still "normal." If I mention that we homeschool high school, it seems to be a conversation stopper. People don't know what to think. The silence makes me want to blurt out, "No, we aren't religious freaks trying to protect our kids from the evil influences of the world." "Yes, the local high school is a fine place and I have nothing against the teachers."  "NO! There is nothing wrong with my son that requires him to be at home." We like to homeschool. It's what works for us.

 

I am not sure if it matters what you tell people you are using or doing. I am very, very careful where and when I discuss doing an AP Euro class and a chemistry class at home complete with labs. Word got back to me about my "arrogance."  That hurt. I work like a dog to makes those two classes happen on a strong academic level.

You are right, lonely and without a safety net can feel very "outside a box."

 

[regentrude]

 

I have a question for you and regentrude and others who are talking about not doing the whole book, and/or stretching the course over two years.  First, if you aren't doing the whole book, do you just give the credit based on hours spent on studies? I know that for some topics you give time-based credit, and for others, like math or languages, you give credit based on an accepted amount of content covered.  I'm inferring that with science, it's kosher to give a "Physics credit" when you have done 150-180 hours worth of study, even if you haven't covered the whole book in that time.  Is that what you are saying?  (I understand that I need to get advice, here or from syllabi, about what topics are considered critical if I don't already know. I've seen a post of regentrude's where she does this for Physics).

 

Yes, I would give a "Physics" credit when the most important things that are commonly considered the basic canon have been covered. Certain topics would be taken for granted if the course label was physics; one would assume a basic coverage of mechanics and electromagnetism.

For a course that focused on unusual topics and did not include the "canon", I would prefer a more descriptive title like "Particle physics" , "Physics of nonlinear systems and chaos", "astrophysics" or something like that.

 

 

 

Second but related question: when you spread a course out over two years, do you give two credits?  I'm assuming if you are covering more material/spending 300+ hours on the topic, you can give two science credits.  Or maybe for transcript purposes you give credit for two separate classes, even if you actually studied in a more integrated way. 

 

If I were to spread the standard material of a high school course over two years, without adding extra material and simply going at half speed, I would not feel that two credits are warranted.

I would give two credits if additional material was covered or if the student did substantial extra projects.

 

ETA: I also give a full credit for one semester of a four hour introductory or three hour upper level course at the university.

The work load and depth of study justifies this, even if the topic when it were covered at high school level would only take one semester and half a high school credit. For example, DD's calculus based physics course required easily 220 hours of work per semester.

[swimmermom3]

 

 

ETA: I also give a full credit for one semester of a four hour introductory or three hour upper level course at the university.

The work load and depth of study justifies this, even if the topic when it were covered at high school level would only take one semester and half a high school credit. For example, DD's calculus based physics course required easily 220 hours of work per semester.

 

So if I have ds take one semester of a four hour introductory biology course with the second semester being an introductory marine biology course, at our local state university, this would count as one credit of biology and one credit of marine science on his high school transcript?

 

If this is correct, then I think I see new possibilities on the horizon for meeting our science needs.

 

[8filltheheart]

So if I have ds take one semester of a four hour introductory biology course with the second semester being an introductory marine biology course, at our local state university, this would count as one credit of biology and one credit of marine science on his high school transcript?

 

If this is correct, then I think I see new possibilities on the horizon for meeting our science needs.

 

Yes. For example, ds is taking Thinkwell bio.....typical high school bio, 1 credit. But last semester he took an upper level physics course, this semester he is taking 2. Each of those I am counting as 1 credit, so 4 science credits for the yr.

[lewelma]

Oh, Ruth, I think I love you!  :001_wub:  I've seen some of your other plans, but not this one.  I am very grateful.  I feel like I can put something like this together for biology, but not so much for astronomy/physics/chemistry, so this is awesome!

Glad you like it. When you put one together for bio, pass it to me. I think my younger would love it. 

 

 

I have a question for you and regentrude and others who are talking about not doing the whole book, and/or stretching the course over two years.  First, if you aren't doing the whole book, do you just give the credit based on hours spent on studies? I know that for some topics you give time-based credit, and for others, like math or languages, you give credit based on an accepted amount of content covered.  I'm inferring that with science, it's kosher to give a "Physics credit" when you have done 150-180 hours worth of study, even if you haven't covered the whole book in that time.  Is that what you are saying?  (I understand that I need to get advice, here or from syllabi, about what topics are considered critical if I don't already know. I've seen a post of regentrude's where she does this for Physics).

 

Second but related question: when you spread a course out over two years, do you give two credits?  I'm assuming if you are covering more material/spending 300+ hours on the topic, you can give two science credits.  Or maybe for transcript purposes you give credit for two separate classes, even if you actually studied in a more integrated way.  How are you handling that for the class you describe, Ruth?

I don't actually need to make credits like you guys do. All I have to do is get my sons through the exams. However, just to keep my son's doors open, I have been paying attention. For physics we are using Knight's College Physics as the text, this is an AP AB text (or whatever the new physics designation is), so for a 2-year course (for my student who has not taken physics previously), I would designate year 1 as just high school physics, and year 2 as AP physics. Does it really matter that we are not doing the traditional approach of studying physics (mechanics, wave, electromagnitism, and modern) at the highschool level and then studying the topics again the next year at the AP level; but instead are studying highschool and AP level mechanics and wave in year 1, and highschool and AP level electromagnitism and modern in year 2? As far as I am concerned, NO. There are no transcript police, and my son will have the added investigations and social-issues papers, so if they came knocking on my door, I could prove legitimacy.

 

As for something like Biology. For a survey class called Biology I would want to see units in the 4 levels of cell/molecular, within the individual, individual, and community level. So you would not want to study ecology, evolution, conservation biology, and call it a Biology class. That class would be called evolutionary biology. But for a general Biology class you would not need the entire book. If your student is a delve deep kind of kid, he could study cell biology, genetics, animal diversity, and ecology to cover the 4 levels (plus evolution as the central concept of biology). Or it could be molecular biology, human biology, botany, and environmental science to cover the 4 levels (+evolution). Your choice. If you try to do it all, you do none of it well. Obviously, if you get a shorter, easier biology book than the one I am holding, you could survey all the fields and that is fine also. But don't think you are required to cover an *entire* fat AP bio textbook in 9 months in order to honestly call your class 'biology.'

 

And that brings me to my thoughts on inside the box. For me all learning must be authentic. I am ok with having my son be required to study subjects that he does not love because someone somewhere thought he should know something about history. This can still be authentic learning. What I am not willing to do is follow a course curriculum that inhibits learning because either there is too much information (AP bio comes to mind) or simply done too fast. I will NOT sacrifice my son's learning for box ticking. So if they don't like my approach to physics, they can stick it. There are many schools out there. My son will not learn physics well if he rushes. This is just not how he works. He is a deep contemplative thinker. If he is not learning because the course is not suitable, what is the point? I will NOT cave when it comes to learning the material.

 

 

Edited to add: The Young Physics Tournament has awesome questions for physics investigations that you can do with very little equipment. http://www.iypt.org/Tournaments/Shrewsbury#Problems

[swimmermom3]

Yes. For example, ds is taking Thinkwell bio.....typical high school bio, 1 credit. But last semester he took an upper level physics course, this semester he is taking 2. Each of those I am counting as 1 credit, so 4 science credits for the yr.

 

Thank you for the clarification. I wondered how you got four credits of science in.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Um, yeah.  I kind of love that too.  And, Jen,  it sounds like you have a 2nd kid like mine - mine's 7 - for whom learning sure as HECK doesn't start until the learner wants it to!   :eek:  ;)

[8filltheheart]

I just read that in this Washington Post article, 'The Procedure' and how it is harming education. I kind of love that.

I couldn't get your link to work, so here is the link I found. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2014/01/12/the-procedure-and-how-it-is-harming-education/

 

I didn't find the article revolutionary, but that is only bc it agrees with my POV and how I have been teaching my kids from day 1. I really like the part you quoted, but that is why I also think that projects w/o foundational knowledge are not high in educational value. Projects need to clarify and strengthen. When the projects fail, that is not a problem. The question is do students understand why and actually gain knowledge from what didn't work as much as from what does. That is learning. Parroting has very limited value.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Glad you like it. When you put one together for bio, pass it to me. I think my younger would love it. 

 

As for something like Biology. For a survey class called Biology I would want to see units in the 4 levels of cell/molecular, within the individual, individual, and community level. So you would not want to study ecology, evolution, conservation biology, and call it a Biology class. That class would be called evolutionary biology. But for a general Biology class you would not need the entire book. If your student is a delve deep kind of kid, he could study cell biology, genetics, animal diversity, and ecology to cover the 4 levels (plus evolution as the central concept of biology). Or it could be molecular biology, human biology, botany, and environmental science to cover the 4 levels (+evolution). Your choice. If you try to do it all, you do none of it well. Obviously, if you get a shorter, easier biology book than the one I am holding, you could survey all the fields and that is fine also. But don't think you are required to cover an *entire* fat AP bio textbook in 9 months in order to honestly call your class 'biology.'

 

And that brings me to my thoughts on inside the box. For me all learning must be authentic. I am ok with having my son be required to study subjects that he does not love because someone somewhere thought he should know something about history. This can still be authentic learning. What I am not willing to do is follow a course curriculum that inhibits learning because either there is too much information (AP bio comes to mind) or simply done too fast. I will NOT sacrifice my son's learning for box ticking. So if they don't like my approach to physics, they can stick it. There are many schools out there. My son will not learn physics well if he rushes. This is just not how he works. He is a deep contemplative thinker. If he is not learning because the course is not suitable, what is the point? I will NOT cave when it comes to learning the material.

 

 

Edited to add: The Young Physics Tournament has awesome questions for physics investigations that you can do with very little equipment. http://www.iypt.org/Tournaments/Shrewsbury#Problems

 

Hear hear.  

 

I think that for Biology - this being the science I actually know something about - what I want to do is *not* choose, but to do two years - one year more focused on cells, genetics, microorganism, botany, etc., and then one more focused on ecology, environmental science, watershed ecology, agroecology, earth/climate science, etc.  I know I can do this within the box by calling one Biology and calling one Environmental Science.

 

The quirky one I want to do I'm thinking of calling something like Integrated Science: Origins of Life and covering things like organic chemistry, astrobiology, geology, palentology, earth systems science, evolution, and whatever else seems to fit in there.  I think this is such a fascinating area of study, and then it can spin off into cool social science topics like anthropology and on into history . . . . 

 

So what I'm thinking (and the path we are on now) is to cover conceptual physics & chemistry to as much depth as our math skills allow now, then do my Origins class, then a couple of years of biology . . . . then we can always catch "standard" chemistry and physics at the JC. 

 

Or everything could change.  But this is a sequence which interests me, and an interested teacher plus an interested student gets you at least halfway there, I think!  

 

I'm actually serious about that.  One of the reasons I see for outsourcing classes is that I'm not motivated (self disciplined?) enough to put in all the work to put together a course like this in a topic that doesn't interest me passionately.   So if dd stays interested in Astronomy, I definitely see more outsourcing in our future. ;)  :D  

[Mommyfaithe]

In the end, don't we all have boxes?

Yes, but it is what we do with those boxes!! Do we stack them up and stand on them to see beyond or do we climb inside and shut the lid??

 

Does the box become a tool, a means to an end? Or, does it become a confinement that causes one to feel hedged in. Yes, we all have boxes! Some of those boxes contain beautiful gifts....some of those boxes need to be left at the curb for the the next pick up. I tend to choose my boxes carefully :-)

[Mommyfaithe]

Um, yeah. I kind of love that too. And, Jen, it sounds like you have a 2nd kid like mine - mine's 7 - for whom learning sure as HECK doesn't start until the learner wants it to! :eek: ;)

Oh yeah, I have several of those...and the gray hair and chewed off nails to prove it....

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've felt a lot more comfortable going outside the box for those classes that I'm most comfortable with (ie. the humanities).  For math and science I tried - I got tutors that I was hoping would help us to go outside the box in a way that would best serve ds but it didn't work out that way.  So the box helped us to at least meet requirements appropriately so that no doors would be shut that shouldn't be shut.  I regret that a bit but what can you do?  "The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry."  (I had that happen, though, even in a very good college prep school where I occasionally got a dud teacher or circumstances made things not go as well as it could, so I think that can happen anywhere.)   I feel like this year I've corrected that a little bit by offering some electives in the sciences that allow ds to explore and grow.  

[regentrude]

So if I have ds take one semester of a four hour introductory biology course with the second semester being an introductory marine biology course, at our local state university, this would count as one credit of biology and one credit of marine science on his high school transcript?

 

If this is correct, then I think I see new possibilities on the horizon for meeting our science needs.

 

 

There is no hard and fast rule how college classes "translate" into high school credits. The topic is discussed frequently on this board. Some posters reported that their states have specific rules how certain courses translate. It seems to be fairly typical to award a full high school credit for a one semester college class.

 

As the principal of my home school, I reserve the right to assign high school credit as I see justified. A four hour college class with a work load of two hours outside class for every hour in class, i.e. approx. 192 hours over the course of a 16 week semester, does, in my opinion, merit one full high school credit.

 

So yes, I would definitely give one credit for the biology course and a separate credit for the marine science course.

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

So we had a very out-of-the box math lesson today.  It's kind of embarrassing, but I wanted to share it because it was kind of one of those hit yourself on the head d'oh moments for me.  Shannon was working on a Fractions-as-ratios-word problem in MM6, and she got stuck on one.  I looked at it.  I had no idea what to do.  I worked on it for a few minutes.  Got nowhere.  Checked the answer.  Ok, once I saw the answer, I was able to work backwards and figure out how it was derived but . . . . I couldn't look at the problem and explain how to move forward.  It drove me nuts.  I was feeling really stressed and inadequate - as I tend to do when stymied by a 6th grade math problem - but it hit me that this is *exactly* the kind of experience I want my kids to have:  I have a problem, I have tools that should help me solve it, and I need to get from here to there.  I grappled with that problem, I talked through it out loud, we worked on it from different angles . . . . and finally we figured it out.  We spent a long time.  We didn't "get through" as much math as I had planned today - but we learned more than we have in any other single day since . . . forever.

 

This was stepping outside of a box for me.  I have been struggling so hard to try and embrace the AoPS idea of the tyranny of the 100%, that if you can solve all the problems you are wasting your time and you aren't actually learning anything . . . . I *say* all these things to my kids, but I haven't really acted like I believed it deep down inside.  Well, today I did.  And it was amazing.

 

Just wanted to share - it was not out of the box in the way we've been posting about here, and it's probably something you guys do every day, but for *me* it was a clawing, struggling, scrabbling out of the box moment that I'm going to try to hang on to, because it was totally wonderful.   :)

[elegantlion]

One concern I have about dual enrollment is actually getting enrolled in the right class. Dual enrollment at my university, the nearest school, is either through the schools (which isn't an option for us, not sure if we legally can anyway), online classes (select classes, not all) or classes on campus. They are discounted but not free. There is also the issue of seats left. The history class online only had 25 seats. By the time freshman could enroll there were 3 seats. *I* barely got in. DE isn't opened until AFTER regular students are signed up. 

 

For me, I am hesitant to count on DE to round out core credits. DS is an average student who would most likely not test into higher level classes, so he'd be looking at general ed requirements. 

 

I know others have mentioned space issues before.

[KarenNC]

Current classes that I feel fall into this category (she's in 8th grade, but these are high school level):

Intro to Theater with an emphasis on backstage work (my course design)----work painting sets and helping run props on 2 community theater productions (adult level, not children's theater--12 performances each), read Drew Campbell's "Technical Theater for Non-Technical People," attend multiple live performances (opera, musical, play, reader's theater), watch multiple filmed stage performances (opera, musicals, classics, Shakespeare, modern) through Digital Theatre Plus and read the accompanying educational material/watch interviews with various people who put on the performances as well as read the text of one of the Shakespeare plays, see how a Western culture play has been interpreted by a non-Western culture (Bollywood or anime version, for example), compare different Western culture interpretations of a single play, do a review of a live performance focusing on technical aspects,  tour backstage at regional opera company, read handouts from MIT Opencourseware beginning costume design on the function of costume and psych of clothes then choose a scene from a play/myth/short story/fairy tale and design sets and costumes for it.  (note: the backstage tour of the opera and work on one of the productions happened last spring, but were a kickoff for this)

 

How has inequality influenced literature and culture?----online course through Virtual Homeschool Group, using in-depth studies of Killer Angels, Uncle Tom's Cabin, To Kill a Mockingbird, and Raisin in the Sun. Course Description; "This year we are going to read four key pieces of literature and examine what influenced the authors to write each piece. We will also examine each for the subtle and not so subtle inequalities within each story. Finally, we will reflect how our own ideas may influence the way we view the world and how we interact with the people around us. At the end of the course you will walk away with a better understanding of what drives an author to create a story and how personal experiences influence those stories. We will use a variety of modes of learning during this course. Throughout the year we will use high impact literature in combination with nonfiction and primary documents. Students will also learn how to create and navigate new Web tools. Once a week we will meet to discuss and share our learning."

 

Ideas I have for future classes:

Anatomy for the Artist----study of anatomy with the goal of being able to more accurately render living beings, primarily people. Resources will include both art and anatomy books.

Religion in Culture---less well thought out, but we did The Bible and Its Influence this summer (with multiple tweaks and additions) to see how Judaism and Christianity show up via allusion in Western culture. I'd like to do something similar with non-Western religions like Shinto, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam, so that we can begin to see some of the allusions in their art and literature. This may be one course, multiple course, folded into art history and literature, don't know for sure. I have a few resources in mind.

Big history using https://www.bighistoryproject.com/bhplive (or the educational resources in their educator link--I have a teaching account, depends on whether it becomes a full course or folded into another one)

 

 

 

[regentrude]

So we had a very out-of-the box math lesson today.  It's kind of embarrassing, but I wanted to share it because it was kind of one of those hit yourself on the head d'oh moments for me.  Shannon was working on a Fractions-as-ratios-word problem in MM6, and she got stuck on one.  I looked at it.  I had no idea what to do.  I worked on it for a few minutes.  Got nowhere.  Checked the answer.  Ok, once I saw the answer, I was able to work backwards and figure out how it was derived but . . . . I couldn't look at the problem and explain how to move forward.  It drove me nuts.  I was feeling really stressed and inadequate - as I tend to do when stymied by a 6th grade math problem - but it hit me that this is *exactly* the kind of experience I want my kids to have:  I have a problem, I have tools that should help me solve it, and I need to get from here to there.  I grappled with that problem, I talked through it out loud, we worked on it from different angles . . . . and finally we figured it out.  We spent a long time.  We didn't "get through" as much math as I had planned today - but we learned more than we have in any other single day since . . . forever.

 

This was stepping outside of a box for me.  I have been struggling so hard to try and embrace the AoPS idea of the tyranny of the 100%, that if you can solve all the problems you are wasting your time and you aren't actually learning anything . . . . I *say* all these things to my kids, but I haven't really believed it deep down inside.  Well, today I did.  And it was amazing.

 

Just wanted to share - it was not out of the box in the way we've been posting about here, and it's probably something you guys do every day, but for *me* it was a clawing, struggling, scrabbling out of the box moment that I'm going to try to hang on to, because it was totally wonderful.   :)

 

I'm glad you had this experience! Clawing, struggling, scrabbling - that's about right. Feels good afterwards, doesn't it?

My son spent two hours yesterday on one single geometry problem.  It was a very tough problem (challenge problem with a star and 3 hints!), and he did not quit, refused to look at the hints, did not stop when math time was up... he clawed and struggled and scrabbled until it was solved. So, those were two hours of hard thinking, brain completely engaged. Much more valuable than two worksheets of easy problems.

(As an off-topic aside: this is exactly why I find it futile to schedule AoPS.)

 

 

[lewelma]

So we had a very out-of-the box math lesson today.  It's kind of embarrassing, but I wanted to share it because it was kind of one of those hit yourself on the head d'oh moments for me.  Shannon was working on a Fractions-as-ratios-word problem in MM6, and she got stuck on one.  I looked at it.  I had no idea what to do.  I worked on it for a few minutes.  Got nowhere.  Checked the answer.  Ok, once I saw the answer, I was able to work backwards and figure out how it was derived but . . . . I couldn't look at the problem and explain how to move forward.  It drove me nuts.  I was feeling really stressed and inadequate - as I tend to do when stymied by a 6th grade math problem - but it hit me that this is *exactly* the kind of experience I want my kids to have:  I have a problem, I have tools that should help me solve it, and I need to get from here to there.  I grappled with that problem, I talked through it out loud, we worked on it from different angles . . . . and finally we figured it out.  We spent a long time.  We didn't "get through" as much math as I had planned today - but we learned more than we have in any other single day since . . . forever.

  :hurray:

 

You are not the only one.  I wrote this last year about helping my son in math:

 

"I told someone last week that I could only go through this process once because what I am giving my son is not a knowledgeable tutor, but rather a skilled learner who is at his exact level in math. If I ever go through this material again with a student, I would be much much more knowledgeable and I would loose the confusion that has been so critical in helping him battle through this material. What I am finding is that because I don't know the answers and I cannot teach him how to do it, I am instead teaching him how to learn problem solving -- what questions to ask, what answer to hunt for, how to compare problems, how to really interact with this material. No tutor who knows the material well could do this as well as I can, because once you have the knowledge, it would be virtually impossible to relive the confusion."

 

Keep it up!

[lewelma]

(As an off-topic aside: this is exactly why I find it futile to schedule AoPS.)

 

This.

 

[swimmermom3]

Yes, but it is what we do with those boxes!! Do we stack them up and stand on them to see beyond or do we climb inside and shut the lid??

 

Does the box become a tool, a means to an end? Or, does it become a confinement that causes one to feel hedged in. Yes, we all have boxes! Some of those boxes contain beautiful gifts....some of those boxes need to be left at the curb for the the next pick up. I tend to choose my boxes carefully :-)

 

:wub: Thanks, Faithe. I needed to hear that.

 

[swimmermom3]

There is no hard and fast rule how college classes "translate" into high school credits. The topic is discussed frequently on this board. Some posters reported that their states have specific rules how certain courses translate. It seems to be fairly typical to award a full high school credit for a one semester college class.

 

As the principal of my home school, I reserve the right to assign high school credit as I see justified. A four hour college class with a work load of two hours outside class for every hour in class, i.e. approx. 192 hours over the course of a 16 week semester, does, in my opinion, merit one full high school credit.

 

So yes, I would definitely give one credit for the biology course and a separate credit for the marine science course.

 

Thanks again. We have been pondering what to do with  ds's biology requirement next year as a junior. Unless the local high school has upped the difficulty of their standard biology course since my older kids took the class, ds will be bored. Our chemistry course at home this year is far more demanding. I talked with ds about the possibility of taking biology at  university downtown. He loves the idea. As the youngest in our family, he is not bothered by doing things with people older than he is. In sailing, he often crews for adults.

 

Anyway, after we talked about it, he offered up a proposition that he take an introductory biology course at the university with a good Sailor Girl friend (truly just a friend) of his. She is a sophomore in ps, loaded with AP courses and still bored. My dh thinks that it would be really good for them both. He thinks if there are two of them, older students will be more comfortable talking with them and he figures they will be competitive with each other and will work hard to do well in the class. They are both kids that want to do what everybody else their age isn't doing.

 

We are going to check in with a former swim club parent who is a biology professor at the same university and see what he recommends.

 

[Penguin]

I live in a place where homeschooling is legal but oh-so-rare. Therefore, IRL I always feel like we are out of the box!

Carry on...I am enjoying the thread :)

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I live in a place where homeschooling is legal but oh-so-rare. Therefore, IRL I always feel like we are out of the box!

Carry on...I am enjoying the thread :)

I was thinking of this yesterday. I understand what we're discussing here, but there is something funny in a sweet way of pondering if you're out of the box enough when you're a homeschooler.

 

I'm not sure outsiders would get it. Simply because homeschool on its own departs from the norm.

[Mommyfaithe]

So we had a very out-of-the box math lesson today. It's kind of embarrassing, but I wanted to share it because it was kind of one of those hit yourself on the head d'oh moments for me. Shannon was working on a Fractions-as-ratios-word problem in MM6, and she got stuck on one. I looked at it. I had no idea what to do. I worked on it for a few minutes. Got nowhere. Checked the answer. Ok, once I saw the answer, I was able to work backwards and figure out how it was derived but . . . . I couldn't look at the problem and explain how to move forward. It drove me nuts. I was feeling really stressed and inadequate - as I tend to do when stymied by a 6th grade math problem - but it hit me that this is *exactly* the kind of experience I want my kids to have: I have a problem, I have tools that should help me solve it, and I need to get from here to there. I grappled with that problem, I talked through it out loud, we worked on it from different angles . . . . and finally we figured it out. We spent a long time. We didn't "get through" as much math as I had planned today - but we learned more than we have in any other single day since . . . forever.

 

This was stepping outside of a box for me. I have been struggling so hard to try and embrace the AoPS idea of the tyranny of the 100%, that if you can solve all the problems you are wasting your time and you aren't actually learning anything . . . . I *say* all these things to my kids, but I haven't really acted like I believed it deep down inside. Well, today I did. And it was amazing.

 

Just wanted to share - it was not out of the box in the way we've been posting about here, and it's probably something you guys do every day, but for *me* it was a clawing, struggling, scrabbling out of the box moment that I'm going to try to hang on to, because it was totally wonderful. :)

Actually, this was exactly what I was talking about. Idea grappling is a wonderful thing.

[8filltheheart]

He thinks if there are two of them, older students will be more comfortable talking with them and he figures they will be competitive with each other and will work hard to do well in the class. They are both kids that want to do what everybody else their age isn't doing.

 

 

Unless things are radically different there, no one will know you ds is dual enrolled or a high school student, not even the professors, unless your ds tells them. Ds avoids telling anyone if possible. Last yr at the end of the spring semester he told two of his professors bc he asked them to write his LOR, but prior to that no one knew except admissions.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

So we had a very out-of-the box math lesson today.  . . .

 

This was stepping outside of a box for me.  I have been struggling so hard to try and embrace the AoPS idea of the tyranny of the 100%, that if you can solve all the problems you are wasting your time and you aren't actually learning anything . . . . I *say* all these things to my kids, but I haven't really acted like I believed it deep down inside.  Well, today I did.  And it was amazing.

 

Just wanted to share - it was not out of the box in the way we've been posting about here, and it's probably something you guys do every day, but for *me* it was a clawing, struggling, scrabbling out of the box moment that I'm going to try to hang on to, because it was totally wonderful.   :)

 

Which brings me back to "define box." ;)

 

Unless we've clearly defined the boxes we're trying to get out of, finding a means of egress may prove needlessly difficult. Further, asking others to help us out of a box we haven't clearly identified might lead to some attempts to pack us in more tightly.

 

What exactly is it that is confining about a certain box? What does freedom look like? It goes beyond switching out the word box for "norms" or "what is typical." These aren't set either. Each one of us comes with different backgrounds, environments, and kids. Even saying "not doing school at home" isn't clear enough for me. Schools vary wildly.

 

When we try to identify and articulate exactly what we do and don't want-- what is and isn't helpful in our journey--it becomes at least a little easier to get to a better place.

 

It goes beyond understanding a cultural phrase; it's about getting to a deeper understanding about what that phrase means to you personally. Granted, that might be a little tougher and might not come out packaged in three tidy words. The roots of the "box" problem might even surprise us.

[Penguin]

Actually, my middle had a very out-of-the-box high school experience.  He was never homeschooled, but I hope you can find the story relevant anyway :)

 

When the (unexpected) opportunity came along for our family to move overseas, he was a junior in high school.  Can you imagine the endless discussions that occurred in our house?!

 

After exploring many, many ideas, we worked out a plan for him to come to Europe for a semester as an exchange student at the local IB school.  May I point out that this endeavor involved countless administrative hours on my part?  Lol.

 

After that, he was supposed to return to the U.S. for his final semester.  He was going to stay with friends / family.  This would be followed by a summer in Europe with us, then off to college.  It seemed like a solid plan that would not disrupt his future / life.

 

Well, after three months here...he decided not to go back!!  He decided to stay and finish out the IB program.  He took a very big risk.  While I was thrilled that he would not spend the last segment of his high school life half a world away from us, I was really nervous.

 

End result?  Being willing to be out-of-the-box really opened him up to some exciting opportunities.

 

 

 

 

[regentrude]

Unless things are radically different there, no one will know you ds is dual enrolled or a high school student, not even the professors, unless your ds tells them. Ds avoids telling anyone if possible. Last yr at the end of the spring semester he told two of his professors bc he asked them to write his LOR, but prior to that no one knew except admissions.

 

Interesting. At our school, the electronic class roster contains information about the student's major/academic program. So, if the professors were looking at the roster in its entirety, they would see that the dually enrolled student is listed with no major. But maybe most don't bother (I do know my students' majors, and I do know who is dually enrolled or non-degree seeking)

 

Not that it matters. All my DD's professors do know that she is in high school; it has never been a problem.