DD Graduate? When? Behind in math and science

[txmom23]

I am getting very nervous.  Our eldest has dyscalculia.  She's a jr this year and attending her third semester at the local jr college.  Dual-credit is going great.  She's supposed the graduate in 2015, but she is still in Alg I and can't take the higher science without more math. What do I do? Can she graduate with only two math and two science credits?

[Lolly]

That depends on your state/cover school rules. If it is a matter of it is up to you, then it is...up to you. I think it also depends a lot on what her plans are beyond graduation. Will she be continuing at the CC? If so, it doesn't really matter if she is taking her classes there anyway. However, if she is taking ALg 1 there now, she should have plenty of time to take more math classes by 2015. Is she going to be taking classes in the summer also? What sciences has she taken? Again, it really depends on who is making the graduation rules. If she is planning on attending a 4 yr college after she graduates, she will probably be needing another science and math.  Personally, I would opt to graduate her on time and have her continue at the CC. (As long as she is agreeable.)

[txmom23]

We're in Texas.  She has taken Alg I, Physical Sci, and Bio I at home.  She watches science videos at Khan Academy and Crash Course.  She can't pass the math portion on the cc entrance exam. She can take all the classes at cc, that don't have a math prereq.  She will not pursue a career in science or math obviously.  She will likely be an author and/or editor.   The plan is to continue dual-credit until she graduates in 2015.  Continue at the cc, then transfer to a university.

 

 

[1Togo]

Since your dd is at cc, she can earn enough math credits by plugging away through the school year and the summer.  She could do the same with science.  There are science courses that do not require math; i.e. astronomy, zoology, environmental, botany.  Does your cc offer them?  She could also do another non-math science at home to get in another science credit - Adv. Biology, Marine Biology (both from Apologia) or Astronomy (Google Homeschool Astronomy).

 

 

 

 

[txmom23]

I'm trying to line-up her transcript with the recommended graduation requirements of the State of Texas (26 credits).  The minimum graduation requirement is 22 credits.  It requires Biology and Integrated Chem and Physics OR Chem only or Physics only.  If she does Geometry next year, she will meet the minimum requirement for math.  

 

The cc offers environmental science and geology, but her math placement score doesn't meet the prereq.  

 

 

 

 

[1Togo]

So, it sounds like she will only need the science credit -- Int. Physics/Chem or Chem or Physics.  I would do the science at home.  Take a look at Paradigm Accelerated Curriculum.  PAC has in Integrated Physics/Chem that might fit the bill for a non-science major.  We have used PAC when we needed a git-er-done credit.  Even though the courses are not difficult, they are thorough and interesting.

[txmom23]

Thank you for that suggestion!  This little bit of research has quelled my anxiety!

[1Togo]

You are welcome.  We are in a similar boat, and I have been researching options because dd is supposed to graduate next year as well, and she definitely doesn't want to do a gap year because of math and science.  We are making sure she has a solid foundation in Algebra and Geometry and doing what we can for science credits.

[Lolly]

Or, at home use Conceptual Physics. She can handle the math, it is a math-lite physics.

[Jann in TX]

Is her Dyscalculia documented?  If so many universities will waive the math requirement for non math/science/business majors (so English as a major should be OK).  These waivers are taken on a case by case basis. 

 

If you have documentation then you need to begin the college search NOW.  Her CC work will support that she is 'college material'-- but there will need to be a paper trail for the lack of math (and inability to take a college math course for credit due to her learning difference).

 

One of my dd's friends is on a full ride Music scholarship to Vanderbuilt.  Vanderbuilt waived the math requirement (she was fine taking college Biology for her science credit)-- she took an extra history class to make up for the math.  In high school she never made it to Algebra 1 (dyscalculia)... she took Biology and Astronomy (and a special ed science that covered some Chemistry and Physics but without the math part).  She still received a public school high school diploma (Texas).

 

The key is documentation.  It also helps if your dd can show that she is a strong student in her major.

 

 

[txmom23]

Yes, it is documented.  I have the written analysis from an educational psychologist.  It took her two years to do pre-algebra.  It will have taken her two years to do algebra I.  I sit with her.  We do every problem together.  If I wasn't here, it would not be happening.  She doesn't have mastery.  She won't have mastery.  The educational psychologist said to keep her math lessons to 7 mins and give her a calculator.  Any after that, it's a waste of our time. She's already gone. It's like living in mathematical "Groundhog Day."  She needs to be re-taught daily.  

 

We do not have a 504.  The ed psych said the public school would need to repeat the testing.  She said they would take one look at her Stanford test results and see she was gifted, but avg in math (not low performing). The ed psych said that the difference between the verbal and non verbal scores reveal the ld.  I think a difference of 15 points is needed for ld. DD is 35.  

 

The cc math placement test put her in pre-algebra.  

[charlotteb]

I am in a similar situation with my DS now.  He is also in 11th grade.  And he has always struggled with math.  When he took his placement test for CC, he tested into pre-algebra, even though he was working on Geometry with me at home.  But he has always needed a huge amount of guidance and would forget every concept immediately after the test.  We did not sign him up for a math class this semester at CC. He took English 101 and US History and did GREAT in them! I worked with DS this past semester with Lials Basic College Math at home and he has re-tested into Algebra at CC. He will be taking it in the spring semester there.  We have heard from that the professor he will be having is one of the best around! His plan is to do dual credit until he graduates and then continue at community college to get his associates degree and then transfer to a university.  I recently heard a stat that said something like 70% of incoming university students place into remedial math.  So I figure I'm actually giving my math-struggling son a leg up on it! He will have 3 semesters of math in college and will be into a regular college math sequence by the time he graduates high school.  When he goes to a university in a few years, he will go as a transfer student, so they will base his admission on that and not his high school transcript.  Perfect solution in my opinion!

[txmom23]

The last Stanford she took was 8th grade.  I bet if she took an 11th grade Stanford the gap would reveal itself.  I will talk to the ed psych and the counseling center at the cc.  Maybe they can do some additional testing.

 

 

[ktgrok]

Also, make sure you are using a program that has daily review, if possible, to help with the retention. My gifted but struggles with math student needs most of the lesson to be constant review, with just a little onthe new concept. 

[Jann in TX]

Dyscalculia is not a learning style difference (more repetition, different program...).  It is a learning disability-- a disconnect in the brain.  Someone with Dyscalculia will not be able to understand the abstract math of Algebra-- they 'may' be able to do 'some' basic math.  Even if they memorized all of the math tables, the part of the brain that processes that material is not working properly.

 

The students I have worked with that have had Dyscalculia might (might being a strong word here) be able to do a one step problem, but more than one step and they become disconnected with the problem.

 

My oldest dd had a learning style difference-- it took her 2 years to get through Algebra 1 and another 2 to get through Algebra 2-- BUT she did understand the material and she COULD use it to solve problems-- my dd was a 'slow learniner' in math but did not have Dyscalculia.

 

To the OP-- discuss with the counselor at the CC and the admissions counselors at any prospected university about the specific documentation they will require and what accomodations they will allow so your dd can reach her goals.

 

[kiana]

+1 to what everyone else said about the accommodations available to someone with documented dyscalculia.

 

One of my friends (before this was a recognized diagnosis) attended a small college where she was able to substitute a logic course instead of a mathematics course.

[txmom23]

I will get the needed documents to be able to request a substitution for the college math and math heavy science classes.  Jan, on another note, since your daughter was released from Alg I and higher math, I wonder if I should continue in my pursuit of higher math mastery for my DD.  I'm torn.  With my help, I've seen progress, but is it real understanding?  I don't know. Honestly, I don't think so.  She usually fails every lesson out of the gate, if left to herself.  We do the problem, half the time she is incorrect, we watch the video, she remembers the steps, maybe gets it correct.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  We still have "math fights" despite both of us knowing what's going on.  Why do I still have expectations?

[Misty]

Ok, wow, I have your daughter's twin here at my house.  My daughter is 16, diagnosed with dyscalculia.  She just started 8th grade math (finally).. We decided to do 7th grade twice because she just couldn't retain it.  She is light years ahead in anything to do with language and wants to be an author and editor.  She finds great satisfaction in correcting other people's grammar (and she even has a t-shirt that says "I'm silently correcting your grammar".. LOL).. She spends most of her time writing novels.  Extremely creative and talented.  I am stuck on what to do with math.  She is ready to graduate except for math and science.  She will be starting dual enrollment next year.  She is a sophmore this year and they said she was too young (she has a Sept bday).  So we're waiting until next year.  She did well on ACT, but the math score brought her overall score down.  She actually did decent on the science portion (21, I think) and she nearly aced the reading and English portions.  So you and I should keep in touch and share notes!  Oh, and we're in Oklahoma so we're neighbors!

[Jann in TX]

I will get the needed documents to be able to request a substitution for the college math and math heavy science classes.  Jan, on another note, since your daughter was released from Alg I and higher math, I wonder if I should continue in my pursuit of higher math mastery for my DD.  I'm torn.  With my help, I've seen progress, but is it real understanding?  I don't know. Honestly, I don't think so.  She usually fails every lesson out of the gate, if left to herself.  We do the problem, half the time she is incorrect, we watch the video, she remembers the steps, maybe gets it correct.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  We still have "math fights" despite both of us knowing what's going on.  Why do I still have expectations?

 

I went through a period of mourning for my dd's education-- I finally had to let go of where she was 'supposed to be' and accept her for where she was and what she COULD do. 

 

My recommendation would be to drop Algebra and concentrate on more of a consumer/life skills math.  Help her learn how to budget-- and I would go as far as to teach her how to use some of the nifty budgeting software that is out there.  My oldest is living on her own, DH set up a spreadsheet of her expenses for her to use and she also keeps track of her bank account.  She is not quite 100% independent-- but she is getting there.  My dd is a gifted photographer (still struggling to find her place in the world)--her eye for detail is amazing.

 

Your dd sounds like she has some special gifting-- focus on that. 

 

[txmom23]

Ok, wow, I have your daughter's twin here at my house.  My daughter is 16, diagnosed with dyscalculia.  She just started 8th grade math (finally).. We decided to do 7th grade twice because she just couldn't retain it.  She is light years ahead in anything to do with language and wants to be an author and editor.  She finds great satisfaction in correcting other people's grammar (and she even has a t-shirt that says "I'm silently correcting your grammar".. LOL).. She spends most of her time writing novels.  Extremely creative and talented.  I am stuck on what to do with math.  She is ready to graduate except for math and science.  She will be starting dual enrollment next year.  She is a sophmore this year and they said she was too young (she has a Sept bday).  So we're waiting until next year.  She did well on ACT, but the math score brought her overall score down.  She actually did decent on the science portion (21, I think) and she nearly aced the reading and English portions.  So you and I should keep in touch and share notes!  Oh, and we're in Oklahoma so we're neighbors!

Hey Neighbor!  They are twins!  We should keep in touch.  We're on the same journey, for sure.  My DD could have started cc a semester earlier, but she started in the spring instead.  She has flourished in her classes there.  It's a real jekyll and hyde, isn't it?  These girls are so incredibly talented in their areas of strength,  but COMPLETELY different people in their area of weakness. Here, one can enter cc at 13, but they must still be classified as a jr.  We had to bump her up (on paper) to be enrolled.  So technically, she entered cc the second semester of her sophomore year, at age 15.

[txmom23]

I went through a period of mourning for my dd's education-- I finally had to let go of where she was 'supposed to be' and accept her for where she was and what she COULD do. 

 

My recommendation would be to drop Algebra and concentrate on more of a consumer/life skills math.  Help her learn how to budget-- and I would go as far as to teach her how to use some of the nifty budgeting software that is out there.  My oldest is living on her own, DH set up a spreadsheet of her expenses for her to use and she also keeps track of her bank account.  She is not quite 100% independent-- but she is getting there.  My dd is a gifted photographer (still struggling to find her place in the world)--her eye for detail is amazing.

 

Your dd sounds like she has some special gifting-- focus on that. 

 

Wow, thank you Jann for the validation.  The stigma of being "bad at math" is a painful one.  Most people don't know there's a math LD.  As a hs mom, the burden is solely our's.  I didn't want to make a mistake and shortchange my kid or her education.  So I pushed and pushed.  I've unintentionally hurt her over the years.  I need to let it go.   I will take your advice to heart.  

[Misty]

Wow, thank you Jann for the validation.  The stigma of being "bad at math" is a painful one.  Most people don't know there's a math LD.  As a hs mom, the burden is solely our's.  I didn't want to make a mistake and shortchange my kid or her education.  So I pushed and pushed.  I've unintentionally hurt her over the years.  I need to let it go.   I will take your advice to heart.  

 

This totally resonates with me as well.  For years we have been so frustrated over poor math performance.  I just couldn't see how she can learn something one day and totally forget it the next day.  And to muddy it even further, she has a gifted IQ so we always expected her math performance to be at least at grade level.  And the worst thing is, my husband is one brain cell short of being a math genius.  He is REALLY good at advanced math so this situation is just baffling to him and he has had to learn to completely check out because he just doesn't get it at all.  We have had way too many arguments about math in this house.  I finally settled her into Teaching Textbooks a few years ago and she does okay with it.. But like I said, she is just starting 8th grade and I don't think she will be able to do Algebra at all.  We plan to focus on consumer math, life skills, budgeting, etc. and maybe hold her hand through algebra 1 just so she can have that credit on paper.  The degree program she is looking at only requires one semester of basic math so as long as we can help her through that she will be fine in college.  I'm just worried about her high school transcript for now.  

 

I have really been helping her focus on her writing career in recent years.  So we are mostly focusing on her strengths and trying to develop her career now.  We do a lot of research on publishing and we are preparing her most recent novel for that.  She is actually glad that her brain is lopsided.  We have had several conversations about how someone with her level of genius (in language and creativity) would almost have to have some level of disability in other areas and this satisfies her.  She also has synesthesia and was diagnosed with mild Asperger's years ago, but the Asperger's is really not noticeable these days.

 

For science, she is a rock hound so we were thinking about putting her through a geology certification course that will certify her to work with rocks/gems if she wants to some day.  That would take care of one science credit, I think.  She will also be doing biology 1 & 2.  She has already completed Rainbow physics and chemistry, which isn't high school rigor (more like 8th grade) and she didn't do bad in them (she was just terribly disinterested) so that may be enough for her since she most definitely will not be pursuing a career in science.  Anyway, please keep in touch so we can share plans.  I'm not on these boards very often so we should exchange emails through PM or something.  I would love to know what you end up using for math and science throughout high school and what has worked for you so far.

[OneStepAtATime]

Very much interested in this thread myself.  I am also in Texas and have a daughter in 7th who has all the signs of dyscalculia (no officially diagnosis, since I haven't found anyone so far that actually believes even dyslexia exists in my area).  We ended up starting over with subitization skills just a couple of months ago and it has helped but I don't know if we will ever get through all the math required for graduation.  Reading this thread has been so helpful!

[Lanny]

At Tech, these are the requirements for First time Freshmen:

Requirements

• 4 units of English
• 4 units of math
• 4 units of science
• 2 units of foreign language 
• The URL is http://www.admissions.ttu.edu/index.php/admission-financial_aid/first-time-freshmen/

For Transfer students, here's the URL: http://www.admissions.ttu.edu/index.php/admission-financial_aid/transfer-2/

Official transcripts (high school and/or college). Students must submit high school transcripts and ACT/SAT scores for acceptance if they have completed less than 12 transferable hours after graduating from high school.

 

I believe it would be much easier, for your DD to get into Tech, or another university, as a Transfer student. I believe she would have very tough sledding, trying to enter as a Freshmen. GL

 

 

Additional Information

• Students who have completed more than 12 transferable hours after graduating from high school will need to supply high school transcripts for advising purposes only.

I believe your DD will be OK. With the information from this thread, you can work on this and have the paperwork trail in order...

[txmom23]

I looked into admissions and degree requirements for the possible universities.  None of them had the same requirements.  Some of them do not give waivers or substitutions, just the regular accommodations.  They all require recent testing ( IQ, achievement) some within the last 3 years.  I think my next call is to the cc counselor.

[txmom23]

Very much interested in this thread myself.  I am also in Texas and have a daughter in 7th who has all the signs of dyscalculia (no officially diagnosis, since I haven't found anyone so far that actually believes even dyslexia exists in my area).  We ended up starting over with subitization skills just a couple of months ago and it has helped but I don't know if we will ever get through all the math required for graduation.  Reading this thread has been so helpful!

If you're near Houston, I can give you the name of the ed pysch we used.  Our DD was tested at age 12.  It really helped knowing the reason for all the stress.  We lowered expectations, added accommodations and a time limit.  

[OneStepAtATime]

If you're near Houston, I can give you the name of the ed pysch we used.  Our DD was tested at age 12.  It really helped knowing the reason for all the stress.  We lowered expectations, added accommodations and a time limit.  

Thanks so much for the offer and sorry for the delayed response...finally have a moment before the kids wake up and Christmas chaos ensues.

 

Our pediatrician is nice but knows NOTHING about learning issues.  She kept sending us to people who did not believe that these issues really exist (as in, there is no such thing as dyslexia, dyscalculia, dysgraphia, ADD/ADHD, etc.).  Very frustrating!!!!  

 

We finally found someone local that could assess dd and ds for dyslexia, but she knew nothing about dyscalculia (which I think is the issue for my daughter besides the dyslexia) and my son's particular form of dysgraphia.   Those I diagnosed unofficially myself based on months and months of research but only really started understanding everything and moving forward within the past year and a half.  

 

We do not live in Houston, but I have relatives there that we visit and we sometimes go there for other things, like museum visits, etc.  It isn't terribly close (several hours) but it might be worth it to find someone who could give a more accurate diagnosis of what is happening with the kids.  We are finally successfully re mediating the dyslexia, but still working on the rest....and since my dd should have been in 8th this year, not 7th, and is already 13, I am trying to find a way to get her through the remainder of middle school and then high school without putting her too much further behind.  

 

How did they do the assessment for your child?

[bobbeym]

This sounds like DS.   We've had limited success using Power Basics Geometry this year. It's considered a full high school curriculum but it only covers the very basics.