Barton or not? And other musings.

[Jaybee]

I've asked several questions before about my 10yo ds. Okay, so I've been reading The Dyslexia Advantage. And though I don't yet know which areas are my son's strengths, he fits the markers. Last August (2012), I started using Pathway Readers and the little workbooks that accompany them. His reading is now quite good, and silent reading comprehension is very good. I don't know that he will ever test well, but I am pleased with his progress. He does not have problems with his grade level readers. Again, his spelling is pretty bad, and his writing is bad as well. He is a visual learner, in spite of the dyslexia.

 

We are now finishing up AAS Level 2. We have 1 ½ more lessons to go. I have Levels 3 and 4 on hand, as well as A Workbook for Dyslexics. Should I go on with these, or would it be beneficial to do Barton? I have resisted doing Barton, because when I looked over the material, I felt it would discourage him if we backed up that far when his reading was coming along so well. It seemed like it would back up too much, and that it was somewhat overkill (ETA: overkill in his case, not for every kid). The workbook and AAS are both based on OG methodology. I don't know whether, for the sake of his spelling and writing and future needs in these areas, to back up again and do full Barton, or to plow on ahead with what we are doing. Is Barton the magic bullet? Will it benefit him enough to be worth it, i.e., since he may always have problems with writing and spelling, should I just keep working on them as I am, or do we stop them and start Barton? I know each child is different, and you can't know exactly what my son needs. But I don't want to just be stubborn about Barton--I just don't know if that is what he needs. But neither do I want my resistance to keep him from getting something that might really help him. Is it so much better than anything else out there that I should drop them and pick it up? Opinions? 

 

I was also wondering about how to approach future curriculum. Before reading The Dyslexia Advantage, I was thinking, "Oh, so maybe I need to trim down the classwork and provide lots of hands-on kits, etc., to work on the basics but give wing to his strengths." But after reading about how dyslexics need structure for ideas and facts, I am thinking that lots of enrichment in all areas may be the way to go instead. I am happy with what we are doing this year, but am thinking of next year. Perhaps:

TT for math 

Easy Grammar (he is doing FLL 4 now, and doing well with it)

Continue with AAS

 

Well, that's for the basics, but I don't have time right now to fill in all the blanks--but lots of reading aloud, and having him read as well. I hope to buy World Book Encyclopedias--hard copies--because I know he enjoyed my mom's ancient ones. He does like to pull down books and look through them, even if he might not read all the text.

 

Insights?

[OneStepAtATime]

Hi Jaybee!

I don't have a definitive answer for you, but I will post some thoughts.  I also suggest you might hop over to the LiPS by Lindamood Bell post started by OhElizabeth a few days ago here on the Learning Challenges board.  Barton vs. Not Barton topic came up and there were quite a few posts on both sides of that coin.  Lots of info there which might be of help to you.  There really isn't an easy answer but a lot of great women shared their thoughts and personal experiences in that post.

 

My observations and comments off the top of my head:

1.  There are many successful programs for teaching reading to dyslexics, not just Barton.

2.  From personal experience and observation of my kids and others, most parents THINK a child is reading fluently if they are gaining understanding while reading silently, when in fact they may be only able to successfully decode enough words to gain some context but are not actually "reading" fluently.  Kids can survive this way, but do not necessarily thrive.

3.  Every child is different, but the basic issues can frequently be the same.  My undiagnosed dyslexic daughter made it to 5th grade with A's and B's "reading", but she had no fluency and could not read out loud with any flow.  Spelling was abyssmal.  My son made it to 2nd grade with 100's on everything from spelling to reading comprehension, but he is also dyslexic and reading became more and more difficult as he progressed.

4.  Going way, way, way back to the very basics of sound understanding as Barton does in Level 1, not even sound/letter association, was what finally turned things around for my daughter.  Going back even further with LiPS before jumping over to Barton was what finally turned things around for my son.  These programs are helping the kids to master reading and spelling, not just survive it.

5.  Going way, way, way back to just basic subitization skills in math finally is helping click with that subject, too.

 

 

The bottom line for my family, and this has happened with both of my articulate dyslexic kids who made pretty good to excellent grades in school (before we started homeschooling) but were not fluent readers or spellers or smooth with math facts (and were actually struggling quite a bit in these areas but were not verbal about it and grades did not reflect it) was to go back to the very, very beginning of extreme basic skills and make the connections that were being missed,.  These are connections that come so automatically to people who do not process information the way a dyslexic does, that it seems almost silly to go back that far.  And yet that was exactly what my kids needed.  Now that we have done that, we are progressing much faster and the kids are much happier and more confident.  I wish with all my heart we had done it sooner instead of stubbornly plowing forward in fear that going back we would be wasting time. 

 

Just as an aside, here, Barton goes way, way back to the basic building blocks of reading, but it also goes forward, past what many language arts programs in PS use, so many children that have used Barton all the way through to Level 9 and 10 actually score higher on the language arts portion of the SAT than their ps non-dyslexic peers.  Those levels are prep for high school level material.  Some parents think, when they find out that it may take 2-3 years or more to complete this program that their child is in remediation at a basic level for all of those years.  That isn't what happens.  The program actually replaces all other Language Arts instruction through Level 4, then you can add in a writing program.  It starts out very gentle, but covers grammar, spelling, reading, punctuation, sentence structure, etc.  It covers the building blocks all the way through to the higher level reading and spelling skills.

 

 Does this mean I am saying your child needs Barton?  No.  Every child is different and not every child needs this program or a program like it.  Also, not every child who does need a program like this one does well with Barton in particular.   Read the posts I mentioned before.  It might help you make this decision.

 

One thing I was curious about is what you meant by "his reading is now quite good".  Can your child read fluently out loud?  If he can't then he is not truly "reading", and he may be doing well with silent reading because he is gleaning enough words from context when silently reading to just "get by" and understand the material, but is not actually reading fluently.  As he gets into more and more difficult material this will be harder and harder for him to do.  

 

If he is reading well out loud, no issues with decoding and fluency, but his spelling is still an issue, Barton or another program like it might help with that, too, but it might not be needed.  

 

If you can, you might consider getting an assessment through a neuro-psychologist or an edu-psychologist.  We finally had evals done for both kids and found they had weaknesses we did not know about that were tripping them up in ways we could not easily observe. but they also have tremendous strengths that were not being tapped.  It gave us some areas to pursue for help with remediation but also for areas of strength that not only could help with remediation but could help with determining areas of interest to pursue and even career possibilities.

 

I know it is difficult to find the best path.  You are definitely not alone.  Big hugs of support.  Good luck!

[Jaybee]

One thing I was curious about is what you meant by "his reading is now quite good".  Can your child read fluently out loud?  If he can't then he is not truly "reading", and he may be doing well with silent reading because he is gleaning enough words from context when silently reading to just "get by" and understand the material, but is not actually reading fluently.  As he gets into more and more difficult material this will be harder and harder for him to do.  

 

If he is reading well out loud, no issues with decoding and fluency, but his spelling is still an issue, Barton or another program like it might help with that, too, but it might not be needed.  

 

If you can, you might consider getting an assessment through a neuro-psychologist or an edu-psychologist.  We finally had evals done for both kids and found they had weaknesses we did not know about that were tripping them up in ways we could not easily observe. but they also have tremendous strengths that were not being tapped.  It gave us some areas to pursue for help with remediation but also for areas of strength that not only could help with remediation but could help with determining areas of interest to pursue and even career possibilities.

 

Well, I tried to quote only part, then ended up deleting too much, so we'll try some color here. Thank you for your reply, One. I appreciate the thorough explanation of what Barton actually does. I'll go and read through the other post. I assign 30 minutes of reading on his own, but I have him read through the 4th grade Pathway Reader aloud to me each day. Some days he reads with no errors, some days he stumbles a bit but will correct the word when I point to a word he has misread. He doesn't always read with proper attention to the punctuation, but he understands what he is reading, and sometimes laughs or comments on it.

 

We are overseas and an assessment is not possible at this time. He was tested in August of 2012, but we were not very impressed by the lady who evaluated him. She seemed a little spacey and unprofessional, and I didn't feel she gave us a clear read on what we were dealing with. Frustrating, because when you are trying to figure these things out, you don't know where to go. So I keep muddling through, trying to find out what is out there as well as trying to figure out where he is and what he needs. That's where all you guys come in. :) 

 

Thanks.

[OneStepAtATime]

Understand your situation completely.  And our first assessment was a joke.  Truly unhelpful and actually led us in the wrong direction...Really sad when I read how many parents have had that same experience...

[PeterPan]

Just really fast here, but 1, you can fit the pattern of DA and not get a dyslexia diagnosis.  Go get evals.  2, if Barton looks like overkill for your child, it is.  Refer back to #1.  He might not be dyslexic and might not need Barton.  3, go do the pre-test for Barton, just to see if he has any really basic holes.  Also, AAS 1 had you do an exercise where you did phonogram to sound and sound to phonogram with the cards.  Did you do that and how did he do? 

 

If he's making appropriate progress with AAS, I would continue on.  I would go ahead and get evals so you know what you're dealing with and can stop guessing.  Also read Freed's book Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World.  It will probably give you a lot of ideas, including a method of visualization for spelling he might benefit from.

[PeterPan]

Ok, I just saw your comment about the unhelpful eval.  What did the lady say?  And what kind of practitioner was she?

[PeterPan]

How are you going to get World Book Encyclopedias overseas??  I like 'em, but wowsers!  I'm trying to think of better options here.  Depends on whether he's a fiction or non-fiction person.  Have you thought about a kindle?  Ipad with ebooks?  There is SO much out there for free.  

 

The Pathway Readers are nominal.  I got them at one point to use for checking her ability to read aloud, like what you're doing, but they're not exactly literature.  Don't know his reading level, but have you thought about Magic Treehouse or any of the SL readers or something more high interest?  A dc needs to spend a LOT OF TIME reading way below his "reading level."  You have his ability to decode and then his comfort reading level, and there's usually a big gap.  Don't be afraid to give him easy stuff.  It builds the automaticity the Eides talk about.  Also, AAS gives you your words on flashcards.  Are you drilling them to automaticity?  You NEED to be.  As soon as he understands how words are encoded, put them on cards.  I like SWR, because the words are more diverse and up the reading level more quickly.  Use your AAS techniques and start expanding the words he can read and put them onto cards to build automaticity.  Until reading clicked for my dd, I had her drill in short bursts (30-60 seconds) 4 times a day.  

[PeterPan]

Btw, my dd spent YEARS reading comics.  Visual with good vocabulary.  Highly recommend.  Calvin & Hobbes especially.

 

If he's a non-fiction person, try Usborne books.

[TxMama]

Your son sounds like my 11 yo son. I even posted a question earlier this year regarding using AAS vs. Barton. He was on level 4 with AAS and reading OK but his spelling was poor. He refused to do any "real world" reading.....ie reading text for video games, etc. Getting this child to write anything was like pulling teeth.

 

My 8yo was not progressing with AAR/AAS, and could not blend and read CVC words despite working on this skill since age 5 through a variety of programs. Reading Dyslexic Advantage was like reading a book about this child. The decision to purchase Barton was because of this child.

 

Since I needed Barton for the 8yo, the decision was made to have the 11 yo go through it as well. I emailed with Barton regarding advancing him so that he did not have to start at the beginning but, of course, they recommended that I work through the entire program with him.

 

We started in late August, and he started Level 4 yesterday. He went through lessons in Level 1 & 2 at a rate of lesson per day. In level 3 he spent 2 days per lessons. The only new information was the presentation of units in Level 3. For example, ALL is taught as a unit and these are called unit syllables.

 

His reading ability, comprehension, and willingness has jumped up leaps and bounds. His willingness to write has jumped by leaps and bounds. His confidence has grown by leaps and bounds. Barton looked like overkill for this child, but it wasn't. It was exactly what he needed.

 

TT for math and  Winston Grammar ( he completed FFL 4 last year)  have been really good fits for him.

 

FWIW, we are still working on getting evals for both kids. Regardless if they are dyslexic or not, Barton is working for them.

 

Best of luck!

[Jaybee]

I'll do the Barton pre-test--I didn't realize there was one. I'll have to go pull out the evals for specifics--got to find them first. Mainly, he was diagnosed with a "reading disability." Well, I could have told you that! Again, I'll have to pull the evals to remind myself of her credentials. I know she had a master's degree in this kind of evaluation (WISC), and did them privately, but results were prepared for the local schools in an area that had very good public schools.

 

I know the Pathway Readers are basic, but with the workbooks, they were something he could work through systematically, and he liked them. They also have a vocabulary overview before the reading, and phonics exercises, both of which were helpful. These are the readers that actually got him reading.  I have never been able to get him interested in any series books like Magic Treehouse, etc. He likes Calvin and Hobbes, as well as other comics. We just started using Bentley's comics for American history. He reads Tintin. He is reading some Usborne books for science. After having had them as read-alouds, he has read both The Wizard of Oz and Winnie-the-Pooh on his Kindle. (In general, however, he loses interest in reading fiction, and prefers non-fiction.) He is a visual learner. While active, he doesn't particularly like kinesthetic methods for learning--it frustrates him.

 

I can get World Book locally cheaper (not cheap, just cheaper) than I can get it in the U.S. I also have a 12yo who would enjoy them. Except for our basic Kindles, we don't have other screens besides the computers. 

 

The levels of AAS are behind where he is in reading, so he can read the cards off very easily. He usually does the dictations with no problems. But if he writes on his own, his spelling is inconsistent and usually incorrect for much of it. His writing is poor and more like you would expect from a much younger child.

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I'll do the Barton pre-test--I didn't realize there was one. I'll have to go pull out the evals for specifics--got to find them first. Mainly, he was diagnosed with a "reading disability." Well, I could have told you that! Again, I'll have to pull the evals to remind myself of her credentials. I know she had a master's degree in this kind of evaluation (WISC), and did them privately, but results were prepared for the local schools in an area that had very good public schools.

 

 

Please be aware that the Barton pre-test is NOT testing to determine if your child has dyslexia or even if your child needs Barton.  It is simply a screening process to determine if your child can USE Barton.  My daughter passed the test.  My son did not.  He needed remediation through LiPS before he could pass the Barton student screening and start on Barton.  That screening DID point out issues he was having that we were not aware of, issues that were actually causing a lot of his difficulties with reading fluently but even the original assessment through the school evaluator did not catch.  Even if you never use Barton, it couldn't hurt to give your son the student screening test.  It is free, doesn't take a lot of time and is pretty easy to administer.  You need to pass the tutor screening test first, though.  Again, it would probably be helpful to read the LiPS post started by OhElizabeth.  Lots of info there and a link to the Barton website...

[PeterPan]

Yes, get out your eval write-up!!!  Sounds like she gave you the information you needed but didn't tell you what to DO with it.  Dyslexia isn't in the DSM anymore.  They called it "reading disorder" in the prior DSM (what you were tested under) and now it's called something totally different (specific learning disorder? I forget).  I know, totally screwy.  Google DSM V dyslexia and you'll see, or I think I posted the link directly.  They have the entire DSM searchable, and dyslexia doesn't show up, sorry.

 

So she gave you what you think of as a dyslexia label when she said reading disorder.  Get Barton.  

 

As far as your write-up, read through it, find the numbers and whatnot, and post here in a new thread and see if the gurus will help you.  I'm not much of a numbers guru, but dollars for donuts there's a lot of info in there and you just don't know what to do with it.  My dd's eval turned up all sorts of things that helped me change my methods after I knew what they meant.

[FairProspects]

Does he struggle with multi-syllable words? Barton absolutely would have been overkill for my older dyslexic. We used AAS and then Rewards Intermediate. After that we've done Reading Assistant, Immersion Reading, echo reading, and reading aloud together for "read to learn" books & passages. Based on what you've posted so far, I'd suspect more of a fluency issue and look at Reading Assistant or Rewards Intermediate rather than Barton.

[Terabith]

What did you think of Reading Assistant?  I've wondered about it for my daughter, but the price has made me uneasy.

[FairProspects]

We did the monthly billing and I liked it, but IME there is not a ton of material. It was great to help with fluency, but ds went through all of the grade level passages and many of the passages above his grade level in just a few months so then we canceled our subscription. It really did help his fluency improve and it was independent (which was awesome) but I wish there was more material available at each reading level.

[OneStepAtATime]

O.k. my dyslexic analytical engineering husband weighed in on this.  He was sitting nearby while I was doing a Barton lesson with my daughter today and although he reads and spells now he mentioned that he really, really wished someone had bothered to explain things to him the way that Barton does when he was still in school.  It would have made a lot more sense.  He thought about your situation and this is the conclusion he came to:

 

1.  If money is an issue, and what you are doing right now is kind of working, then maybe tweaking what you have already will still help, you just may need to do a bit of additional research and experimentation, add a few things in, etc..  What you are doing now could still work even if it might not be as efficient and effective as a system like Barton could potentially be.  Without actually doing one and comparing it to the other, there isn't a way to know for sure but you have seen progress with what you are already doing.

 

2.  On the other hand, if money is not going to be an issue (initial cost being high, but you can always resell), or you really don't think what you are doing now is working that well, then going back and doing the first three levels of Barton won't hurt the learning process at all and you could probably get through all three in a few months time.  (This system can actually be used with non-dyslexics, too, by the way.  There are several homeschoolers with dyslexic kids that also use it with their non-dyslexic kids very successfully so obviously this system has some strengths that are not just for remediation.)  Barton might really help, possibly a lot, and if it does then you are ahead of the game.  If it doesn't give your student a light bulb moment, he will have gotten a good review and still be progressing in his language arts.  At the end of Level 3, reassess and decide if it is worth it to continue.  Several on here have done that successfully and so far no one who has actually gone back and done the first levels of Barton seem to have stated it was a mistake.

 

 

Anyway, hadn't seen it put in those black and white terms before so I thought I would share what he said.

[FairProspects]

O.k. my dyslexic analytical engineering husband weighed in on this.  He was sitting nearby while I was doing a Barton lesson with my daughter today and although he reads and spells now he mentioned that he really, really wished someone had bothered to explain things to him the way that Barton does when he was still in school.  It would have made a lot more sense.  He thought about your situation and this is the conclusion he came to:

 

1.  If money is an issue, and what you are doing right now is kind of working, then maybe tweaking what you have already will still help, you just may need to do a bit of additional research and experimentation, add a few things in, etc..  What you are doing now could still work even if it might not be as efficient and effective as a system like Barton could potentially be.  Without actually doing one and comparing it to the other, there isn't a way to know for sure but you have seen progress with what you are already doing.

 

2.  On the other hand, if money is not going to be an issue (initial cost being high, but you can always resell), or you really don't think what you are doing now is working that well, then going back and doing the first three levels of Barton won't hurt the learning process at all and you could probably get through all three in a few months time.  (This system can actually be used with non-dyslexics, too, by the way.  There are several homeschoolers with dyslexic kids that also use it with their non-dyslexic kids very successfully so obviously this system has some strengths that are not just for remediation.)  Barton might really help, possibly a lot, and if it does then you are ahead of the game.  If it doesn't give your student a light bulb moment, he will have gotten a good review and still be progressing in his language arts.  At the end of Level 3, reassess and decide if it is worth it to continue.  Several on here have done that successfully and so far no one who has actually gone back and done the first levels of Barton seem to have stated it was a mistake.

 

 

Anyway, hadn't seen it put in those black and white terms before so I thought I would share what he said.

 

Sorry, I beg to differ. It absolutely would have been a mistake to do the first few levels of Barton with my older dyslexic. I have done the first 2 levels of Barton with my younger and it moves WAY too slowly for my older dyslexic. So much of the same information is covered in both AAS and Barton that I do feel it would be a waste of time and money for someone who is having success with the pace of AAS to back up and slow down to do Barton. My younger really struggled with the speed of AAS and he needed Barton, but you can absolutely get *most* of the same info for a lot less cost in another O-G program. 

[Pen]

We did not use Barton.  Nor do I plan to.

 

We worked very hard on reading using a different program.

 

My son now reads well above grade level.  (He is 2E)

 

At this point, gradually, with no particular program, but sometimes things like 1000 most common words lists (and spelling city), he is starting to "get" spelling, though I am also still speller for him or the computer is.  I do not think it is that important to spend tons of time on as compared to things that, ala Dyslexic Advantage, are areas of strengths.

 

He has had poems published and the editor corrected some spelling for him.   It is not as big a deal as having something to say is, IMO.

[OneStepAtATime]

Sorry, I beg to differ. It absolutely would have been a mistake to do the first few levels of Barton with my older dyslexic. I have done the first 2 levels of Barton with my younger and it moves WAY too slowly for my older dyslexic. So much of the same information is covered in both AAS and Barton that I do feel it would be a waste of time and money for someone who is having success with the pace of AAS to back up and slow down to do Barton. My younger really struggled with the speed of AAS and he needed Barton, but you can absolutely get *most* of the same info for a lot less cost in another O-G program. 

I respect your opinion.  I am not saying that everyone should use Barton and certainly you, as the parent working with your child would know best what path to take for your children.  I know that some systems have worked for one of my children but did not work for the other.  

 

I think I should clarify.  My husband looked at what others have said here and on a couple of blogs I visit and after thinking about the situation he was saying he would recommend not to use Barton if the system she is already doing is working but may need a little tweaking, (especially if money could be a factor since she has already invested in AAS and Barton has a high initial cost).   AAS is a really solid system.  It does not work for everyone, but it has been quite successfully used by many parents. If she can tweak what she has already, then great!

 

However, if she thinks her current system isn't working and she has serious concerns about it, then because we know several parents that went ahead and did use Barton, just at a faster pace with older kids, and it DID help, sometimes quite a bit, then why not try it?  She can always resell it.  Resale value is usually quite high.  

 

In other words, if she doesn't think her system is working, then he didn't see how there would be any real harm in doing those levels of Barton as long as there isn't a money issue because they wouldn't, theoretically, take that long to do, and might really solidify some of the spelling issues the OP is seeing.  She can always resume AAS after the first three levels of Barton.  I don't think it would hurt either, since there are other parents that have done that and been quite successful (including my own family).  My husband, being a dyslexic, brought a perspective I did not have, so I thought it important to mention it.

 

The OP will obviously have to make the decision based on what she is seeing with her own child.  She has more information than we do on her particular circumstances.  Since what my husband was saying made sense to me, I wanted to pass on his opinion in case it helped the OP.  

[Lecka]

Here is my opinion: if you have something solid or decoding and have done phonemic awareness, if he is able to sound out words at the level he is at:

 

Then I do think fluency may just take a lot of fluency practice.

 

I have an opinion that I have done good things with my son, good techniques and practice. I don't think there is a magic program.

 

Their website is all changed, but I used to look at a part of readingrockets.org that talked about when to work on phonemic awareness, decoding, or fluency.

 

If you are afraid he has gaps then going to Barton would be a good thing I think. I have been really tracking what my son *knows* with the scope and sequence for Barton and also with the scope and sequence for Reading Reflex/Abecedarian.

 

I think you should look at his phonemic awareness, and his decoding of words not in context so he can't use context clues. We *know* that reading in context with context clues is a strength, but that can really cover up decoding weaknesses.

 

But if those things are solid -- then I think it is legitimate to spend a long time working on fluency.

 

You should see progress, real progress, but it may be slow and take a lot of time.

 

I am a believer in "more repetition" being needed. It just takes time. But it has to be effective practice with good decoding practices and sounding out.

 

So overall I think you should investigate and look at your options. Maybe contact Barton and ask for the level pre-tests and post-tests. That might let you see where he would be if you chose Barton. On their website it states that as an option, and it is a step I would take if I felt my son was stalling and needed to take a step of using Barton.

[OneStepAtATime]

By the way, Jaybee, other posters are correct.  As I mentioned in my first post here, there are many ways to tackle reading, writing and spelling issues.  No one program is the only way to fix things.  I talked specifically about Barton because you asked and because we have used it successfully.   If, after you have looked at everything, Barton doesn't seem to be a good fit, but you are still not convinced that AAS is working the way you want it to, and you wish for more options or more detail on options already mentioned, then you might either start a new post that doesn't mention Barton specifically in the title or ask more specific questions here of the posters that used other options successfully to try and come up with a plan you are happy with.  There are a lot of great people here.  They have certainly helped me a ton.

 

Stepped on Lecka's post as I was posting mine and didn't get to read it until now, but she has some great suggestions.

[Lecka]

http://m.readingrockets.org/helping/target

 

Here is "target the problem." It is re-done since I have really looked at it.

 

I wouldn't go off of this alone, but it might give you some background information.

 

Barton does cover fluency, but there are other options for fluency. So it might be good to fill in gaps or just plain use Barton. Or it might be good to start focusing on fluency and spending time doing fluency best practices, or even a package fluency program, or Reading Assistant.

 

It is normal to work on fluency, but it is also included in Barton.

[Jaybee]

Okay, I am reading all these and thank you all so much for chiming in. I'm still not sure what to do, ;) but I am really thinking about all this.  I am really not very worried about his reading at this point. The most helpful thing we have used--maybe just because of where he was developmentally when we used it--was Reading Pathways. That seemed to boost his reading a lot, and yes, he does sound out multisyllabic words. It is true that he doesn't always notice details when he reads, and may not be able to fill in the dots correctly after reading a short passage.

 

What I am worried most about right now is whether I am handling the spelling and writing (edited to correct brain lapse) right. Like many have mentioned with their children, it takes a lot of review for him to remember certain things. I know he is bright, but review for rote-type facts just takes time for him. For writing in the past, I have mostly either done dictations or copy work, hoping it would move him along. However, I've had him do more original writing the past few weeks, and I'm a bit appalled.  :mellow:

 

OhE, the problem with the evals was not so much that she didn't give us something we could have taken to someone else and had them look at it and understand what she was saying. It is that because of her lack of professionalism, I am concerned about whether or not the results she found are really an accurate portrayal of where he is and what his problems are.

 

I have to go--have a busy day--but I am reading and thinking about all this. You all have been a great help. 

[OneStepAtATime]

 I wish there were an easy, quick, perfect answer that you knew ahead of time was the way to go.  I think we all struggle with that from time to time.  Hopefully, a plan will come.  

 

With regards to writing, we are still working on putting ideas on paper here at my house.  I am waiting to start really pressing a formal writing program until we complete Level 4, since that is what was recommended by Susan Barton, but I know writing will be an issue.  Both of the kids have difficulty with this unless they are dictating and I help them organize their thoughts.  With time, hopefully, I can find effective ways to help in this area.  I wish I had better suggestions for this part, but I just don't.  Others might, though.

 

Spelling, for us, is being remmediated beautifully with Barton and a recent outside assessment confirmed this, but I know others that have used Barton that still had students struggle somewhat with spelling, and sometimes even a lot of struggles with spelling even after getting pretty far into the Levels.  It is working great for us in this area, but I cannot guarantee it would help your son.

 

Keep digging.   I know you will find something that works.  :001_smile:

[FairProspects]

AAS Level 3 really addressed most of my spelling concerns for ds. I think most people recommend that if you are going to switch, you wait until after Level 3. Ds still uses spell check and Co-writer which have also helped. IEW is working for us this year because it doesn't require him to come up with original content and the KWO technique is brillant for dyslexics. It gets to their strengths of comprehending the big picture and provides enough of a reminder that it helps ds overcome his word retrieval issues with writing. With the exception of the stylistic elements, which I modify, we have been very happy with IEW.

[MerryAtHope]

 

 

What I am worried most about right now is whether I am handling the spelling and writing (edited to correct brain lapse) right. Like many have mentioned with their children, it takes a lot of review for him to remember certain things. I know he is bright, but review for rote-type facts just takes time for him. For writing in the past, I have mostly either done dictations or copy work, hoping it would move him along. However, I've had him do more original writing the past few weeks, and I'm a bit appalled.  :mellow:

 

Actually, I wouldn't expect a child with dyslexia who is near the end of Level 2 to write very well. He hasn't learned enough patterns and words yet. I'd expect most words to be misspelled, including some that he HAS learned in AAS to this point, because writing is so much of a struggle that what he knows isn't yet automatic.

 

They also learn more editing strategies as they go through the program, and kids who struggle with writing need a separate time to edit their independent work (and they are going to need a lot of help learning how to do this). AAS will walk him through how to analyze words; at first they tell the child what strategy to use--ie, rules-based, pronouncing for spelling, visual strategies like using word banks and so on). Then they start asking the child to identify the strategy, with help in telling them--and eventually the program tells you to hand a stack of cards to your child for him to analyze them. (Some kids want to skip that part, and you have to make them do it--make him, it's such important work! And point out things and give as much help as needed in this process, so that he truly analyzes completely. Again, the program will walk you through how to do this.)

 

AAS also gradually is working on writing stamina and on using those words. In Level 1, they wrote just words and phrases. In Level 2, words, phrases, and sentences from dictation. Level 3 bumps up to 12 dictation sentences per step and then adds in the writing station, where he will do some independent writing using words he has learned.

 

After AAS 3, students have mastered about 1000 words, and have more experience with editing their dictations, and with editing some independent sentences. It's at this point that I started to notice more improvement in my kids' writing. They could send me a note with fewer than 50% of the words misspelled. And each year it got better until I started getting notes with no words misspelled at all, or only an occasional word that we either hadn't studied or that was a tricky word.

 

Here's a blog entry with ideas on how to help your child edit and incorporate the spelling he has learned so far into his writing. This will help you to help HIM learn how to become an editor. But know that at this point...it's going to be messy. He's still a baby writer, and just like baby speakers...they leave out parts of words, they mix up sounds, they say things incorrectly (and we think it's adorable!).  Baby writers don't seem to come off as adorable to us--instead they instill us with fear! But truly...his ideas, his work, his efforts do need to be cherished for what they are now, and encouraged--he WILL improve! 

 

As for reading...you may want to see where he would place in All About Reading. That has a lot of built in helps specifically for readers.

 

By the way...if you've never heard the author's story (they were told their son would never read or write and to prepare him for a life without reading)...check it out!

 

Hang in there! Merry :-)

[Jaybee]

Thanks, Merry. I appreciate your going through how the writing is set up in AAS. We will start in level 3 next week. I think we'll hold off on Barton until we give AAS a longer trial. It seems to me just the past few days that his reading is about to jump up a notch. 

[Lecka]

I was helpful to me also.

 

For my son in 3rd grade, we are not this far along, but maybe this summer. I like AAS and thought we might come back to it someday (it was too hard for him when we tried it).

 

I can say -- his teacher at school can see a lot of good in his writing. At his last conference, she showed me a writing sample, and was pleased he had tried to have a topic sentence and supporting statements. This was with heavy modeling as they did it. But she could see something there, that to be honest, I just saw the negatives of how bad it looked and how incomplete.

 

She can see things that are percolating with him.

 

So I agree with Merry :)

 

Also, the amount of hand-holding and scaffolding my son gets at school is large. He is in a lower reading group and so he is getting a lot of help and instruction.

 

Some kids do not need this, and that is fine. But I would not be worried if your son needs more just because some kids do not. It is okay at public school, it should be okay at home.

 

But I never saw this hand-holding when I was a child. Kids that couldn't follow the vaguer instructions just were left to flounder.

 

So no one is even panicking for my son -- they just think he needs more instruction, but that he will get it. They see kids make progress and get it. Of course my son got good placement into this teacher's class and he may need more than she provides, but his teacher thinks he is a smart kid!

 

However -- if I thought he should be the same as some other kids, who just do not need the instruction he needs, I think I would be miserable.

 

But in fact -- one of the higher reading groups is getting inappropriate amounts of homework, way too much, so I am feeling happy this year! But I try not to be shallow like that, lol.

 

(It is also a nice change because he was left floundering in kindergarten in a horrible way, and the school seems like they don't have a clue in some areas of reading. But this year is going well, so that is good. But overall there are a lot of problems that they do not solve, it is not a magical place, but he has got a good reading group this year and his teacher said he is the main student she focuses on within her group. So -- I will appreciate it, lol.))