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Fraught with danger this is, but you asked. So, here is an overview of my experience with ATI & Bill Gothard. PT 1

FaithManor

By FaithManor,
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mamaraby

mamaraby

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If I remember correctly, he took a semi-pseudo-Jewish approach. Pig meat...blech! Not that it's wrong to not want to eat it (believe me, we quit eating it for a time after working on hog farms)...it's more the legalism and attributes to spiritual conditions. One thing you have to understand about Gothard is that he attributes all these "things" to affecting a person's spiritual condition. I don't know all the dietary rules and his reasoning. I would have to look that one up. I do remember an ATI friend of mine being OBSESSED with her diet though and some of that was due to Gothard, imo.

 

I know Hyles had some strange ideas also. I read his book on raising children (don't read it! You'll either laugh or get ticked). One of his pieces of advice was to never give your children seasoned, spicy, or "exotic" food (read ethnic or rich). His reasoning is that the children will like it and it will make them picky...they will want the well seasoned food over the bland (some kids, yes, and some kids, no...in my children's case, "duh!" and I LOVE my ethnic foods and spicy foods....even better, spicy ethnic foods!)

Huh. The thing from Hyles doesn't surprise me one bit.

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creekland

creekland

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People, most people but not all, like structure of some sort.

I think what people crave are kindred spirits.  We all like to belong with those who tend to cherish the same things we do - then we tend to adopt things from our groups (sort of like peer pressure).  We all belong on here due to homeschooling or afterschooling (at least most of us do).  One could also belong to a church they like, a quilting group, a car racing group, any of numerous health groups, environmental groups, tea party groups - you name it - there's a group for it and those in it are there because they share something.

 

Quite honestly?  There's no problem with any of these (including Gothard) as long as all of those there are there because they want to be.  Sure I disagree with some of their beliefs, but that would go for many other groups too.  When it goes "wrong" - "terribly wrong" is when kids are forced to also be part of mom & dad's things.  No one complains when junior decides they don't like car racing even if the family is part of it (or not the same type of complaining anyway).  But when kids aren't allowed to decide who they truly are, there certainly can be life issues.  If I had been forced to be a "girly girl" by my parents, my life wouldn't be anywhere near what it is now and I'd have a ton of emotional issues (if I weren't already dead).

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mommaduck

mommaduck

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Of course if you have 15 kids to home school, grow and grind your own wheat, weave your own nappies from cotton you grew organically etc you will be less incline to attempt to usurp your husband's rightful position in the house.

 

Hate to break it to you, but I've known many families just like this where the woman DID rule the roost. I've known a lot of families where it did keep the wife under the thumb. I would say that it's no different than abusive and non abusive families with fewer children. One man I knew REFUSED to have more than one child (this was a strong religious conviction to him...to where he would tell men that their wives were apparently rebelling and wearing the pants in the family if the family had more than a couple of children. I remember this happening to a quiverful family and he said such to her husband when she got pregnant with her fifth or sixth (?) )

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mommaduck

mommaduck

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Does Gothard have his ow church? Or is it something (organization) that you can belong to and still go to the Baptist or whatever church?  Are there meetings you have to attend, pay dues, report in?

 

I know the Bob Jones was not accountable to any particular church from what I've been told. Hyles was his own authority. I'm pretty sure Gothard is also his own authority as well. More below on this.

 

Oh, and are the Duggars full fledged Gothardites?  

 

Yes...they are ATI, full fledged Gothardites. If you watched the earlier specials about them,  you will see them attending conferences (labeled "homeschooling", but they are only ATI families) and using ATI curriculum. You cannot use the curriculum unless you full fledged and signed all the pledges making covenants agreeing to this and that. I'm sure their media exposure was most likely discussed inside of ATI before they signed. It might be seen as a means of witnessing.

 

 

 

Did you know there's an "official" ATI church where Bill holds membership (though rarely attends)?

 

A lot of information and links here http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whatever-happened-to-bill-gothard

 

Also, there is a book about Gothard that I used to have (might still have): http://www.amazon.com/Matter-Basic-Principles-Gothard-Christian/dp/0974252808

 

I still have my red book. Might have to pull it out to look at and see what I may not have seen before.

 

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Chris in VA

Chris in VA

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I was just wondering--I know the Duggars were having some...um...I 'm not sure how to say it--like, "trouble," but that's not what I mean--with their dd, Jana, and they had her attend a conference or something. Does anyone know about that? It was a couple of years ago (and I read about it in an old hive thread). 

Do you think they sent her to an ATI/Gotherd "re-education" thingy? That would make me so very sad. I like the Duggars.

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Mommyfaithe

Mommyfaithe

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As far as the men ruling the family....my experience was the women only submitted as a formality in public...IOW, I'll ask dh if it is ok if we come for dinner Friday evening. But, in reality, these men seemed beaten down by their wives telling them they NEEDED to be in authority over the family and just what exactly, according to Gothard/ ATI that meant. And if the husband had other ideas or another direction for the family, he was misguided and in sin. It was actually assinine. There was no real submission, there was lots of pecking hens. THIS is how our family should LOOK. It is YOUR JOB husband to lead us THIS way and finance it completely to boot! It was so weird, I was often scratching my head trying to understand the whole thing. Finally, I realized the ridiculousness of the whole situation. WHY would anyone want to imprison themselves like that?? I am still not sure why these husbands stuck around other than that they were good guys who didn't want to lose their kids or they were so hen pecked they were actually relived to be given any authority at all, Or maybe they were just waiting for their wives newest whims to pass..... I am still not sure.

 

I am still scratching my head on that one.

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TeacherZee

TeacherZee

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I was just wondering--I know the Duggars were having some...um...I 'm not sure how to say it--like, "trouble," but that's not what I mean--with their dd, Jana, and they had her attend a conference or something. Does anyone know about that? It was a couple of years ago (and I read about it in an old hive thread). 

Do you think they sent her to an ATI/Gotherd "re-education" thingy? That would make me so very sad. I like the Duggars.

 

Yes, that was a ATI re-education thing. At least I understand it that way.

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mommymilkies

mommymilkies

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But was it homemade tatertot casserole? If it was put together by hand in any way, it counts.

 

 

Really, the crunchy stuff is partially from the anti- government, anti-big business, conspiracy theory mindset. A lot of these people are also "preppers."

Some of it is "getting back to the good old days when things were done right."

As a rather crunchy person, I disagree. I'm a liberal democrat all for Scandinavian type socialism. I do think some things were better ideas than current ones. Such as breastfeeding, whole natural foods, and limiting our environmental destruction (not actually an "olden" idea by any means). Nothing anti-government or conspiracy about it. Of course there are paranoid crunchy people, but they are far from the norm.

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mommaduck

mommaduck

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Tatertot casserole = Unhealthy, but can be an occasional yummy treat. Yes, I've had it, I've made it (maybe a handful of times in a decade), and my SIL used to make it EVERY. SINGLE. WEEK. Then again, she made a lot of PA Dutch meals that consisted of Cream of Carp everything and canned this or that.

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FaithManor

FaithManor

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I was just wondering--I know the Duggars were having some...um...I 'm not sure how to say it--like, "trouble," but that's not what I mean--with their dd, Jana, and they had her attend a conference or something. Does anyone know about that? It was a couple of years ago (and I read about it in an old hive thread). 

Do you think they sent her to an ATI/Gotherd "re-education" thingy? That would make me so very sad. I like the Duggars.

I don't know where they necessarily sent her. There are re-education seminars and

he has private youth boarding schools and re-programming centers. Survivors of the

boarding centers report all kinds of abuse. There one in Indianapolis and Gothard

negotiated a nice contract with the state for taking juveniles for public

money with very little oversight. The very little oversight thing scares the

geewillikers out of me! Parents can send their children to this facility and

in the book "Bonshea" the author relates her story of being sent their for

reeducation by her ATI husband and how she escaped. Her story is absolutely

gut wrenching. Mine is a 100% walk in the park, a blip, a nothing compared to

what she went through!

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Onceuponatime

Onceuponatime

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As a rather crunchy person, I disagree. I'm a liberal democrat all for Scandinavian type socialism. I do think some things were better ideas than current ones. Such as breastfeeding, whole natural foods, and limiting our environmental destruction (not actually an "olden" idea by any means). Nothing anti-government or conspiracy about it. Of course there are paranoid crunchy people, but they are far from the norm.

 

Um, I wasn't talking about people like you or making any kind of statement about the value of any of the individual ideas . I was referring to the Gothardite's supposed crunchiness and their reasons. I don't understand what you are disagreeing with. I didn't express an opinion, just facts about the beliefs of people in this movement that I have come in contact with.

 

I myself, breastfed exclusively, used cloth diapers part time, eat as many whole foods as possible, and try to limit environmental destruction.

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