Desperately need discipline advice

[enchantedhome]

Hello-

 

I am feeling so completely overwhelmed by my kids' whining/fit throwing/ignoring mommy. I could really use some advice....

 

Basics: DD (6) and DS (4) have some terrible habits around whining and not doing what i ask the first time. I don't expect perfection, but I do expect them to obey me, in general. I have veered all around with how I approach this (super strict, very gentle, etc.), and now I just need some solid help for how to get us on a good track. I have a tendency to get very angry and yell, which I am working on, and I will admit that that approach is not working:( They still whine and throw fits when they don't get their way.

 

Time outs do not seem to make any impact. They still misbehave the next time they hear "no".

 

I'd rather not spank, due to above mentioned anger tendencies. 

 

Do I take toys? 

 

I'm not even summarizing well. Lol. I'm upset, disappointed in myself for letting them get this far in life without the habit of obeying mommy and daddy, frustrated, etc.

 

They are sweet kids. I love them. But I can't handle this obnoxious behavior anymore. 

 

Help please!

[Jean in Newcastle]

It isn't about doing something and expecting their behavior to be different the next time.  You're setting yourself up for anger if that is your expectation.  It actually is about doing something (I would suggest the time outs even though you don't feel like it worked) and then doing it again, and again, and again - each and every time.  After a while (and this might be months) you will notice that you're not having to do it as much or at least perhaps not for as long.  

[zoobie]

The baby is stirring so I only have a minute, but check out the book Scream Free Parenting. :)

 

I'll come back later.

[fairfarmhand]

When they don't get up to obey, you go take their little chubby hands and take them to where you want them to obey.

 

 

[enchantedhome]

It isn't about doing something and expecting their behavior to be different the next time.  You're setting yourself up for anger if that is your expectation.  It actually is about doing something (I would suggest the time outs even though you don't feel like it worked) and then doing it again, and again, and again - each and every time.  After a while (and this might be months) you will notice that you're not having to do it as much or at least perhaps not for as long.  

 

That might be part of it...consistency. 

[Seedling]

I too felt like you months ago when my son was at the pinnacle of the whining era;  I couldn't believe that it had gotten to that point.    I realized in our case that much of it was my being inconsistent and overly tolerant/ soft.    My husband is PERFECTLY consistent, and, I noticed how differently my son (age 7) acted for my husband vs. me with regards to the whining/delaying obedience.   So, I declared WAR on it.   I seriously (no exaggeration) sent the internet modem (how we access internet) with my husband not to be brought home for a month, I turned off the phone ringers, I had a code for my family (let it ring once then call again 2 minutes later).....I removed as many “distractions†I could from around me as I knew I needed complete focus to turn this around.    I began by apologizing to my son for having been too lenient and reminded him of the standards we had for obedience and that we were going to change this.    

 

That day we began the BEAN SYSTEM (explained below).     Coupled with my being completely consistent, the system has helped turn this around for us.    I'm sure that first week or two my son thought, "Is this my mom or a drill sargent?"  as I let him by with NOTHING --- not a whine, not a subtle gesture, not a sloppily-made bed, not a moment's delay in obedience, I accepted NOTHING but sweet kind obedience.   It only took like a week or so for him to get the NEW ORDER and, since then, things are going much more smoothly for all of us. 

 

Our BEAN SYSTEM:

For every whine, delayed obedience, gesture/face expressing annoyance, etc......in short, for every act of defiance he gets a BEAN deposited into one of three jars.   The 3 jars are labeled:  "ALL THE WAY"    "RIGHT AWAY"    and   "HAPPY HEART."     [i borrowed these concepts from the Shepherding A Child's Heart book by Tripp where he writes that a child should learn to obey his parents all the way, right away and with a happy heart.]      If my son doesn't obey me ALL THE WAY (meaning he partially does it or doesn't do his best) he gets a "bean deposit" into that jar.    He gets a bean deposit in the RIGHT AWAY jar if he delays doing what we say.     He gets a deposit in the HAPPY HEART jar for whining, complaining, gestures, rolled-eyed, stomping off, etc.     

 

When he sees or hears the clinking of the bean (the bean jars are in a prominent place in our home so he rarely isn't around the bean jars), he has to immediately go do copywork.   For him, the amount is 10 lines per bean (the # of lines would depend of grade level of each child obviously).     At the end of the day, the beans are counted and he also has to go to bed that many minutes earlier than bedtime for that night.     

 

The copywork is always in line with the offense but it's never short like, "I will obey."    As an example, today I needed help in the chicken yard and it meant he had to go back inside and change his shoes (as he's not allowed to wear flip flops among the chicken poo).  This bothered him so he let off the defiant gesture of the Woe-is-Me-angry-grunt-puff.      After we had gone back in after finishing the chicken yard work, he had to recall the incident and tell me which jar the bean should go in.   He said, "HAPPY HEART" and confessed why.  Then he had to copy, "Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do it."-Proverbs 3:27  ten times.     (We had discussed what this verse means already as it's among frequently copied --- in this incident he was withholding HELPING ME).

 

With my son being only 7, I think the visual aid of the jars helps him also.

 

As for spankings, my son prefers spankings to copywork.   He'd MUCH rather be spanked (and I don't give a milktoast spanking either).  So the copywork, for him, is a highly effective punishment.   (He has to re-do it if it’s sloppy).

 

He usually ends up with about 2 to 4 beans per day (and there are the occasional days where he has gotten NO beans), but that's down from about 15 - 20ish beans a few months ago when we started this system.    His habits are drastically changing for the better.   

 

When we first initiated it, I was concerned that he wouldn't get the heart change, but I’m seeing true heart change.    What he copies convicts him as these truths are drilled in him.   He will often come up to me afterwards and apologize on his own.   We talk out the heart of the matter thoroughly and, for us, because we are Christians, we have an opportunity to tie it to our faith and our need for the work of the Lord in changing our hearts.

[Trish]

At those ages a parenting book called 1-2-3 Magic was helpful to us. Also consistency, as mentioned.

[City Mouse]

At those ages a parenting book called 1-2-3 Magic was helpful to us. Also consistency, as mentioned.

I like this book as well. It incorporates a reward system along with the consequences.

 

What ever system you pick, you just have to stick with it and know that the behaviors will likely get worse before they get better.

[TammyinTN]

For me...when our girls were that age I would simply make sure they did what I ask.  Follow through until its done.   I did a lot of working beside mommy training to make sure they completed what I wanted and how I wanted it done.   This also helped me not to raise my voice, as it was getting done and I was instructing if necessary.   I gave lots of hugs and praise for doing the right thing. 

[Little Nyssa]

You may have already thought of this, but this is us:

My kids whine when they are hungry, tired, hot, or their day is unstructured, or they are disappointed about something.  If they are well-fed and well-rested and their day has activities to look forward to (even simple, at-home ones) then they can roll with things much more easily and they don't whine.  I also find that I perceive their behavior as not so bad when I myself am well-rested, well-fed, and feeling competent.  So I try to take care of these basic needs of myself and the DC, and things go a lot better, and I am better able to cope with any whining that does occur in a more constructive way, as PPs have recommended.  

 

[Ravin]

We use a bean jar, for positive reenforcement. DD gets jellybeans added to it when she shows good effort/behaviors around problem or difficult stuff, plus frequent acknowledgment of the positives. Not yelling also helps, I'm not perfect in that area, but have made effort because I hate doing it because I hated being yelled at as a kid.

 

We give Time outs for negative behavior (away from the ability to seek attention with it) with long-term consistency being what made the difference. It was six months or more of consistency before the negative attention seeking was significantly curbed.

[busymotherof4]

1-2-3 magic has been very helpful for our family. Another book that has lots of good advise from a Catholic perspective is Parenting with Grace by Gregory Popcak. It is gentle but gets good results because it is based on developing a good relationship with your child. How ever you work on fixing your problems they won't go away over night. I really encourage you to read the parenting with Grace book.

[momto10blessings]

One word: consistency.