countrygal Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 The story is long but I'm not going to share too many details. I am just not sure what to do, if anything, so I don't do much. My SIL ended up in an abusive marriage, he obviously was deceptive during their dating although it is known that he come from abusive controlling parents. He did seem genuine, until after their wedding. He became controlling and jealous, not allowing her to visit her family or talk on the phone, and trying to move several hours away. She finally confided in her sister about his emotional and physical abuse and they planned her way out. She moved out and filed a restraining order and he ended up being arrested and sat a couple nights in jail. After a month, she had regrets, dropped the restraining order and tried to contact him, to which he filed a restraining order against her and he filed for divorce. I am thrilled he wants nothing to do with her, so many go back, again and again. Now, she blames her family for making her leave her husband and saying that he could change and she'll wait for him and pick him over her family if we don't accept him back. She comes from a very loving Christian home. She stopped going to counseling because she didn't like what he had to say. She only talks to people who feed into her warped thinking that abusers will change. Now she thinks they just had a troubled marriage and all marriages can be reconciled. She use to be terrified for her life, even the cops said at the rate he was escalating that her life could be in danger. It's been 7 months. Not that terribly long, but it seems like she is getting worse and alienating herself from the people that truly care about her. She is trying to do things to win him back: lose lots of weight, earn more money and buy expensive clothes - those were all things he insulted her about. She believes that she must stay with him (she is Christian) as it is her duty. She doesn't understand that he has broken the marriage covenant and being a good wife doesn't mean you are allowed to be walked all over! Everyone else in her family says she should just get the divorce and move on, so it's not like they are condemning her. She carries a lot of characteristics of abused women: desired to be loved, even if it means being abused; low self-esteem; making excuses for the abuser; feeling like it was her fault and she needs to try harder to be better; and depression. What should I do? Part of me wants to yell at her for being so stupid!!!! Is this just a phase of grief she is going through? How long until she moves on? I'm afraid she is so vulnerable that the next guy she meets will do the same thing to her. Can anything be said? Can a person be helped who can't help themselves? I was thinking about sending her a card just saying that we love her and care about her, nothing about what she should do. Should we just be grateful that he will probably never come back? I know being abused was no fault of her own, but do any of these women who repeatedly go back to abusers and always end up in those types of relationships ever learn to be confident in themselves? Or is it hopeless? Right now, she seems so hopeless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrygal Posted July 9, 2013 Author Share Posted July 9, 2013 *victims* I can't even spell today - I'll try to change it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowing Brook Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Do they have children together? If not I would stay out of it. If she wants to be with him he will only turn her against you. If she truly is a christian she might just win him to the Lord. I know of a situation where a lady had been severely beaten by her husband. Everyone told her to leave. She stayed and now he is a wonderful christian man. Everyone including her thought he would kill her. She felt like she was doing what God wanted her to do and is now being rewarded for her faith. If you knew the man twenty years ago and knew him now you would not know him as the same man. Please no flames I am not saying she should stay just sharing the story to be encouraging. I am not saying that if a woman stays in a bad situation her husband will become a christian. If her husband abuses her she needs to call the police. I think you should be a shoulder for her to lean on. Let her know you will be there for her if she ever needs a safe place to stay and encourage her every chance you get. If you try to make her do anything she will go the opposite direction. Sadly you can't change other people's mind. Bless you for wanting to help her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleidoscope Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Obviously yelling/fussing/lecturing won't help. I wish I knew what would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Can domestic abuse victims be helped? Sometimes. Often not. Never, ever before they are ready to own it, though. Rewriting history is very common, as is the seesaw back and forth. Speak the truth gently, briefly, and keep telling her you love her. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Abuse Recovery Ministries helps women to learn that God has a different plan for them than to suffer abuse. If there is one close to you I suggest talking to one of their counselors to learn what to say to her at this point. Right now he probably has another woman, so he is done with you sister now. When the new woman is difficult he will try to reconnect and she will have trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I agree about trying to find a Christian ministry for abuse victims. She has a moral obligation to forgive her ex his sins against her but that doesn't mean having any sort of relationship with him. I used to work with a lady who was a domestic abuse survivor and she told me that her ex getting killed in a drug deal gone wrong was the only thing that finally allowed her to break free from that toxic relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momof3littles Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 In some cases I think the prolonged psychological implications make it nearly impossible. My mom was a victim of DV with her first husband (not my father). She finally left when he turned on my half-brothers. My mom went on to marry my father, who is probably one of the nicest human beings on earth. We had a story locally where a mom with a good professional background was killed by her H (professional background mentioned because theoretically she had the assets and education to make it slightly easier to leave than some women). Afterward the news broke that he had her involuntarily committed at one point in the past by saying she came after him with a knife. The inpatient hospital said there was no evidence of psychiatric issues and discharged her after the mandatory hold. They did note there was DV, IIRC from the news report. Their live in nanny refuted that the mom had ever come after the husband with the knife. The nanny stated the mom had been sleeping in a locked bedroom with her children for months. The husband was bold enough to show the wife he had taken out additional life insurance on her, and the mother texted the nanny and the nanny point blank told her, "he's going to kill you." She obviously felt like she had no way out, even with that info. In this case, one child had SNs. If you thought your husband could possibly involuntarily commit you or have you arrested for a crime he made up (coming after you with a knife), and that level of terror was ongoing for years (hostage-like issues almost?), it would be very difficult to find the strength to leave. Or he could have had her children removed, made up some false claim to CPS (she would have not been able to work in her field), etc. The terror of that would be unimaginable. She WOH and definitely had assets and resources many women don't have. Many women don't have those things on their side, complicating things further. I knew this woman from an activity our DC were involved in, and obviously never had one inkling she was going through something like this. Such a tragedy. She was barely 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Sometimes, but not until they are ready to help themselves. You can't rescue someone intent on staying in dysfunction and abuse. If he doesn't come back, she's likely to find it with someone else unless she decides to change and get help. She's got to be her own hero - nothing you say or do will change her. Offer resources and love but don't take saving her on as your responsibility. It's a fool's errand. The idea that "If she truly is a christian she might just win him to the Lord" is totally wrongheaded. Religion on its own is NEVER a solution or cure for domestic violence. It can be part of a solution, but it is never the answer in and of itself. He needs help that does not come with religion alone. She needs help she will not get with people telling her what she is "supposed" to do as a "christian wife". That is all I can say without launching into a diatribe so I will leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Do they have children together? If not I would stay out of it. If she wants to be with him he will only turn her against you. If she truly is a christian she might just win him to the Lord. I know of a situation where a lady had been severely beaten by her husband. Everyone told her to leave. She stayed and now he is a wonderful christian man. Everyone including her thought he would kill her. She felt like she was doing what God wanted her to do and is now being rewarded for her faith. If you knew the man twenty years ago and knew him now you would not know him as the same man. Please no flames I am not saying she should stay just sharing the story to be encouraging. I am not saying that if a woman stays in a bad situation her husband will become a christian. If her husband abuses her she needs to call the police. I think you should be a shoulder for her to lean on. Let her know you will be there for her if she ever needs a safe place to stay and encourage her every chance you get. If you try to make her do anything she will go the opposite direction. Sadly you can't change other people's mind. Bless you for wanting to help her. You said no flames, but this is destructive and harmful. I hear these stories over and over again used to "encourage" women to hang in there and God will reward them. It often has the opposite effect of driving the woman away from God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Not until they own it, as a PP said. I have a sister, who is stil in many ways trapped by her second marriage, which ended while they were separated in BIL's suicide. The emotional wreckage still binds her. She blames people who were around her for not helping her, when she hadn't told them what was going on. She blames my mother for her son being in CPS custody, even though it was the police tracking her husband while she was in the hospital who called them, and my mother taking his placement kept the boy out of foster care with strangers. She has developed a deep and irrational mistrust of many men, including my father and stepdad, and because of this has pushed away people who would willingly and readily be part of her support system, leaving the few family members left in her circle of acceptance isolated by fear of what will happen to her and her children if they "choose sides" in a way she sees as against her. You have to own your experience and recognize reality beyond your own pain to be able to be helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowing Brook Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Situations like this are extremely complicated. Unless you've been in an abusive relationship, it's hard to understand just how difficult it is to sort through the feelings and figure everything out. Certainly offer her help, encourage her in staying away from him, and do what you can, but drop the judgmental attitude, asap. You have an extremely negative attitude toward her. Unless you've been there, who are you to call her stupid? I truly hope you aren't telling her the things you've said about her here, or I don't see how you're doing anything but harming her further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleidoscope Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 When I was 13 I was in the ocean and got caught in an undertow. It was terrifying. I could see the safety of the shore and wanted to be there yet the pull was so strong and I really thought at one point I wouldn't be able to escape. It was one of the scariest events in my life. It's the only thing that comes close to being comparable to needing to escape an abusive relationship and dealing with the pull back. Yes, it's true you cant save her. She has to be willing to see what's happening. Sure there is always the, "but God" clause that things might change. But above all love her. Sometimes that may mean strong words but most of the time it probably means being there. Be available. Be real. Be honest. Be safe. And don't be shocked by anything she says or does because that will just make her feel ashamed. She seems hopeless because she IS hopeless. She is living out hopelessness right now. I have a friend who has stood by me for years now. She had no idea what was happening but sensed something was wrong. She was there and real and she has saved my life. She has no idea how many times she's been the only light and the only hope in my life. I know she's wanted to yell at me plenty of times. I know she's frustrated and annoyed with me. I'm so thankful she's committed to loving me no matter how foolish I act. Just had to come back and add that this thread has been so upsetting for me. I know there is a bit of truth in all the posts but there's so much wrong too. It's just so hard to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I worked for a domestic violence program. Women do leave all the time. They leave and they get themselves and their kids safe. It happens every day. Almost all abused women leave for good, it just takes them a while. I remember at one training being told that over 90% of women in abusive relationships do leave, but it takes on average 8 times of trying to leave before they are able to make it permanent. It is so difficult to see someone we love make choices we know are not good ones. We want them to do it differently, we worry about them and we want them to know that they are worth so much more. It sounds like she is really working to find a way to make a bad relationship into a good one, she wants so much to have a loving family for her kids and herself and her partner. I hope she gets herself and her kids safe sooner rather than later. I am so glad she has you, someone who sees things for what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Situations like this are extremely complicated. Unless you've been in an abusive relationship, it's hard to understand just how difficult it is to sort through the feelings and figure everything out. Certainly offer her help, encourage her in staying away from him, and do what you can, but drop the judgmental attitude, asap. You have an extremely negative attitude toward her. Unless you've been there, who are you to call her stupid? I truly hope you aren't telling her the things you've said about her here, or I don't see how you're doing anything but harming her further. ITA! As someone who got out of an abusive relationship (though not until it went from strictly verbal to physical though), and I know that this thread was hard to read without feeling angry. There is women on this board that are domestic abuse survivors that went through WAY more than I ever did and I can only imagine how the attitudes in this thread are making them feel. I have to say as well even if it would never in a million years cross your mind to actually call her stupid etc I can bet she is picking up on that vibe, not just from you but from the rest of her family too. To her it is "proof" that she is everything bad her husband ever called her and "proof" that she deserved the abuse as a result of those flaws. Basically due to the attitude that is felt by her loved ones, it is pushing her right back towards him. You all love her and want her safe but it is not a loving attitude she is feeling from everyone. That comes only by releasing your judgements of the situation completely and loving only her. Think of it like a kid that is removed from abusive parents. They still want, and cry for their parents, but we would never think to ourselves "oh how stupid can they be to want them" We continue to love them for who they are regardless of that kwim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleidoscope Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 To her it is "proof" that she is everything bad her husband ever called her and "proof" that she deserved the abuse as a result of those flaws. Basically due to the attitude that is felt by her loved ones, it is pushing her right back towards him. THAT! I couldn't say it but that's what I was thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countrygal Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 Thank you so much for your responses. I just haven't known what to do, I try to be the same person I always have been to her. I only say things when she brings up the topic, but my responses are short in length. I'm scared to go in depth because I don't want her to stop talking to me if she knows what I really feel sometimes. I do feel angry at her sometimes, most times I just feel so sorry for her I don't know what to say. We've been friends since she was a teen and gotten along well and we still do. I just got caught in the crosshairs at a family get-together where she wanted to 'say something to everyone' and began yelling how her family forced her to leave her husband and it's all their fault that he doesn't want her back and he was never that bad. Her family has never pushed her into anything! She asked for counseling, which they found, drove her to and paid for many times. She got to live with them and other friends for nothing for months until she could find a new job and place to live (she was scared to go back to her previous job because she was afraid he'd show up there.) They paid for lawyer fees and listened to her cry for many, many months. I am angry and sad. It was just hard to watch. I just wanted to know if this is normal and if she can overcome it. I just needed some perspective, as I have never known a situation such as this. I want to do something but I do get so upset and don't want to say or do anything to hurt her. I feel like saying nothing and avoiding her is a bad choice, too. I have been trying to avoid it all. She has always been the sweetest, most easy going girl I know, and it hurts everyone to see her hurting and starting to make some bad (aka 'stupid') choices. In all honesty, I would probably be acting the same way she is at her age. I am a Christian as well, however I believe divorce is permissible under certain circumstances. I feel as though no one should ever encourage a person to go back into an abusive relationship. It takes years for people to change if they are willing. He hasn't shown any remorse, he just ran and hid. That's not to say he won't apologize and change in the future, but I don't think she should wait around for it. Odds are, it'll never happen. I hope he changes, even if just for his sake. He had a bad childhood, and I feel sorry for him. I feel he had good intentions at first, but when control and abuse is all he knew - how can he even know any different. She asked us to forgive him, and I said we need to forgive him, but that doesn't mean that what he did is right or that you should go back to him. I'll check out some abuse ministries, at least so I know what I can do. I sent her a card a few months ago talking about how this is not her fault, she is a victim of circumstances and I would be here if she ever needed to talk. I need to stop writing because now I'm bawling!!! Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 She carries a lot of characteristics of abused women: desired to be loved, even if it means being abused; low self-esteem; making excuses for the abuser; feeling like it was her fault and she needs to try harder to be better; and depression. This paragraph describes where abused women end up. It is often NOT where they start or how they get there. (To the general reading public, not necessarily the OP: Please don't believe the lie that there is a type of personality, education level, income level, job, or characteristics that = vulnerable to abuse. Abuse progresses; it does not *develop* or suddenly start. The progression of abuse creates the above. It also creates a dynamic that makes it 1) difficult to leave and 2) MORE dangerous to leave than to stay. Please don't believe or promote "miraculous" healing stories. Partners who abuse need treatment just like diabetics, cancer, schizophrenics, etc. And they need SPECIFIC treatment. And the success rate is dismal.) Intermediate and long term victims most often end up with PTSD - with symptoms related to abusive relationships. Please, please, please be very careful about "helping" these women unless you understand DV. Some resources: http://www.ncdsv.org/images/powercontrolwheelnoshading.pdf http://www.lundybancroft.com/ http://www.verbalabuse.com/ http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm Unfortunately, unless she begins and completes an intentional healing program, she'll suffer symptoms the rest of her life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Also be mindful we have members on this list are battling this decision even today. Not everyone lives a sunshine and roses life and I can tell you that none of them are stupid in the least. This thread can be very hurtful to them if they read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (To the general reading public, not necessarily the OP: Please don't believe the lie that there is a type of personality, education level, income level, job, or characteristics that = vulnerable to abuse. Abuse progresses; it does not *develop* or suddenly start. The progression of abuse creates the above. It also creates a dynamic that makes it 1) difficult to leave and 2) MORE dangerous to leave than to stay. Please don't believe or promote "miraculous" healing stories. Partners who abuse need treatment just like diabetics, cancer, schizophrenics, etc. And they need SPECIFIC treatment. And the success rate is dismal.) I recently learned that the reason my doctor isn't practicing anymore is because she was beaten so badly by her boyfriend that she was in intensive care for a while and has some brain damage. It's such a loss. She was a great doctor. A college professor in town was murdered by a former boyfriend. Abuse has no one "type". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I recently learned that the reason my doctor isn't practicing anymore is because she was beaten so badly by her boyfriend that she was in intensive care for a while and has some brain damage. It's such a loss. She was a great doctor. A college professor in town was murdered by a former boyfriend. Abuse has no one "type". I don't want to "like" your post because that seems icky. When I entered into my first marriage, I had 2 college degrees, graduated cum laude, was confident and had very healthy self esteem. 15 years later, I believed I was stupid, incapable, had all the symptoms of depression, and often couldn't *think" clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lulu* Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 . Abuse has no one "type". It seemed odd to like your post, but the above bit cannot be liked enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I am a Christian as well, however I believe divorce is permissible under certain circumstances. I feel as though no one should ever encourage a person to go back into an abusive relationship. It takes years for people to change if they are willing. He hasn't shown any remorse, he just ran and hid. That's not to say he won't apologize and change in the future, but I don't think she should wait around for it. Odds are, it'll never happen. I hope he changes, even if just for his sake. He had a bad childhood, and I feel sorry for him. I feel he had good intentions at first, but when control and abuse is all he knew - how can he even know any different. She asked us to forgive him, and I said we need to forgive him, but that doesn't mean that what he did is right or that you should go back to him. To be honest, the religion aspect most likely isn't helping. It's like, marriage is this wonderful, shining thing held up for us to admire. God really, really likes marriage, and divorce makes him cranky. Women who hold together difficult marriages are lauded for their strength and ability to forgive. Marriage is difficult, but make it work no matter what, because divorce is a terrible sin. Then, once your husband hits you, you're suddenly seen as stupid and naive for not running out the door as fast as you can. You can't just turn off that cultural training. Nor can you just turn off your love for a person who, until now, has been the most important person in your life. I'm not saying by any means that she should go back to him, but is it really so difficult to understand why it's hard for her to leave? On the outside, situations like this seem black and white, but when you're living it, it's all gray. In my situation, my husband is bipolar. He'd go into alcohol-fueled manic rages and beat the crap out of me. Or shove me on the floor and then beat my head against it. Once I could barely walk for a week because he stomped on my knee as hard as he could. I was too ashamed to tell my immediate family, but from everyone who did know I got a lot of, "Oh my gosh, just leave, you're an idiot if you let him talk you into staying. You're a doormat." But stay I did. And then he finally found the right medication, and it was like a switch was turned off in his brain, and he became a wonderful, loving husband. He quit drinking and never touched me in violence again. He's a wonderful father, and works sixty hours a week so we can have a comfortable life. (I know this is very, very unusual, and the point of my story is NOT that women should stay with their abusers.) And of course, once that happened, everyone who had called me an idiot and told me how naive I was did a complete one-eighty and praised me for not giving up on my marriage, for keeping it together and not running out when the going got tough. With so many mixed messages, it's almost impossible to figure out what to do when you're living through it. So be supportive, not judgmental. And maybe don't push the "divorce is permissible under certain circumstances" thing, unless you want her lying awake at night, trying to figure out if she's been beaten enough to not make God angry if they do divorce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Do they have children together? If not I would stay out of it. If she wants to be with him he will only turn her against you. If she truly is a christian she might just win him to the Lord. I know of a situation where a lady had been severely beaten by her husband. Everyone told her to leave. She stayed and now he is a wonderful christian man. Everyone including her thought he would kill her. She felt like she was doing what God wanted her to do and is now being rewarded for her faith. If you knew the man twenty years ago and knew him now you would not know him as the same man. Please no flames I am not saying she should stay just sharing the story to be encouraging. I am not saying that if a woman stays in a bad situation her husband will become a christian. If her husband abuses her she needs to call the police. I think you should be a shoulder for her to lean on. Let her know you will be there for her if she ever needs a safe place to stay and encourage her every chance you get. If you try to make her do anything she will go the opposite direction. Sadly you can't change other people's mind. Bless you for wanting to help her. Are you for real? That story is not encouraging. It's crazy and dangerous. That poor woman isn't "being rewarded for her faith". No way. In fact, I'll bet you that she's STILL being abused but you have no clue. Disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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