New here, but really need homeschool advice

[dorothythomas]

This is my first post but I have been lurking for a long time, soaking up all the wisdom that I've found here.

 

But now I need some advice. I have two children ages seven and nine. They are in the first and third grades. We have homeschooled since the beginning. I have had trouble figuring out the kind of homeschool I want us to have. We've tried many different things. Then some things changed in our lives and it seemed like they were going to have to go to school. The public schools in our area were not acceptable to me. There was bullying and poor academic standards. We looked into private schools but we couldn't afford those. And really I believe homeschooling is best.

 

The problem is they are both behind in their grade levels. I'm having a real crisis of what to do with them. My first grader is smart and is just beginning to read and doing well. I am currently using Oak Meadow with her. My third-grader is the one I'm worried about. He is behind in reading. He is behind in math. And he is very resistant to "school time." Even when I try and say let's just read together or let's do some writing instead of putting it in terms of doing school he gets very frustrated. He just doesn't want to do schoolwork. I'm wondering if it's because he's behind and so it's difficult. I feel like he would not thrive in the school setting. But I feel like he is not learning as much as he needs to at home. I have oak Meadow third grade curriculum also but he really doesn't care for doing anything. This is out of character for him because otherwise he is a very cooperative and easy-going child. For some reason school work has become a button.

 

I am at a loss for what to do. I have this sense that he is getting farther and farther behind and that it is getting more and more important as he gets older for him to know more. We are both discouraged and don't know where to turn or how to make this better. I would be so grateful for any advice anyone has. I know from lurking for so long that you all know quite a bit here and I look forward to hearing what advice you might have for me.

[Lolly]

I would suggest having the 3rd grader tested. Check to see if is actually behind and if so how much and where. Check for learning disabilities. That will give you the information you need to proceed. Resistance to school-time can be just not liking it, in which case you just have to force the issue sometimes. My just plain resistant kids seem to actually do best with more traditional types of materials. They want to get it done and move on into their day. REsistance due to it being too hard or learning disabilities can be harder. Sometimes, you need to back up. Sometimes, you just have to face that it is going to be harder and take longer. Sometimes you need a different approach. (I could have kept trying to have my dd memorize math facts forever. They were NOT going to stick. She needed to be given an aid and move forward.) Third grade is where learning problems tend to really start standing out.

[Lori D.]

This is my first post but I have been lurking for a long time, soaking up all the wisdom that I've found here.

 

But now I need some advice. I have two children ages seven and nine. They are in the first and third grades. We have homeschooled since the beginning. I have had trouble figuring out the kind of homeschool I want us to have. We've tried many different things. Then some things changed in our lives and it seemed like they were going to have to go to school. The public schools in our area were not acceptable to me. There was bullying and poor academic standards. We looked into private schools but we couldn't afford those. And really I believe homeschooling is best.

 

The problem is they are both behind in their grade levels. I'm having a real crisis of what to do with them. My first grader is smart and is just beginning to read and doing well. I am currently using Oak Meadow with her. My third-grader is the one I'm worried about. He is behind in reading. He is behind in math. And he is very resistant to "school time." Even when I try and say let's just read together or let's do some writing instead of putting it in terms of doing school he gets very frustrated. He just doesn't want to do schoolwork. I'm wondering if it's because he's behind and so it's difficult. I feel like he would not thrive in the school setting. But I feel like he is not learning as much as he needs to at home. I have oak Meadow third grade curriculum also but he really doesn't care for doing anything. This is out of character for him because otherwise he is a very cooperative and easy-going child. For some reason school work has become a button.

 

I am at a loss for what to do. I have this sense that he is getting farther and farther behind and that it is getting more and more important as he gets older for him to know more. We are both discouraged and don't know where to turn or how to make this better. I would be so grateful for any advice anyone has. I know from lurking for so long that you all know quite a bit here and I look forward to hearing what advice you might have for me.

 

 

 

:grouphug:

 

It is so overwhelming when you are trying to jump those earlier learning hurdles, and have a child's attitude to also contend with. I do have to say, the fact that this is out of character for your DS suggests you may be looking at some sort of learning disorder or disability.

 

First, see if you can make a list of *exactly* the things at which DS is balking.

(for example: having to write something with pencil and paper; reading solo or aloud to you; math facts; a specific math topic such as subtraction; struggling to get spelling; type of spelling practice; etc.)

 

What area(s) are not an issue, if any?

(for example: listening to read alouds; doing hands-on projects; watching educational video; geometry/3-D or hands-on math topics; etc.)

 

This list will help you in two ways:

1. see if there is a specific area of learning difficulty, and pinpoint where the problem is

2. see if there may be a preferred learning style (way of taking in information)

 

 

If you feel your specific list suggests a possible learning issue, then do a bit more research on different types of learning disorders to see if your DS might match up with the "checklist". Your DS is at a good age for getting some testing done to eliminate (or pinpoint) possible areas of learning disorder. There are a number of things to check for: regular vision and hearing tests, but also: vision tracking, eye divergence, processing issues, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyscalculia...

 

Consider reading through Dianne Craft's website for some helps.

Here is a checklist and basic info on LDs.

Here is more info on vision tracking and other vision issues: http://www.childrens...com/reading.htm

Here is more info on both visual and auditory processing disorders: http://www.ldonline.org/article/6390/

Checklist of symptoms that indicate possible learnind disability = http://www.helpguide...isabilities.htm

More on various types of processing disorders in this article (starting half way down) = http://www.adhd.com....g_Disorders.htm

 

 

You don't mention what curriculum you are using with DS. But learning style can be a huge hurdle. For example, if the curriculum is all about workbooks, a lot of writing, and textbook-based -- and if the student best takes in information through hands-on/doing, or through seeing manipulatives, videos, illustrations, etc.

 

Perhaps you could post a few more details and someone is sure to be able to give you some more specific advice! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[North Coast School]

My best advice, after HSing a delayed/reluctant learner two years, is to go for 80% "I know I can do this!" material every day, and only 20% challenging material. For a reluctant learner, often the struggle is having to deal with repeated failure and frustration. Giving them work that you and they KNOW they can do successfully, even if it is way below "grade level," gives a delayed/reluctant learner the feeling of WINNING at SCHOOL. Once they get used to that feeling, they will get to like it a great deal, and will be able to handle more challenging material as they progress.

[dorothythomas]

I have had him evaluated. I don't know if this counts but when we were looking at private schools they did some testing. He's behind in reading and math. I've had his vision and hearing both checked as well as a dyslexia screening.

 

Right now I have Oak Meadow curriculum. It's pretty light. We're doing a little bit of writing a little bit of reading a little bit of math. But even that he just doesn't want to do. I wonder if a more structured school textbook like program would be better for him. Do you have any suggestions?

 

It's like whenever I mention doing school everything in him just shuts down. I don't know why that is as I said before he's a really obedient and cooperative child in every other way. Something about school is just challenging for us both. I would be interested in suggestions for a more academic program that he could jump into where he is even though he's behind. Any ideas?

[brendag]

Maybe a unit study on something that he really likes so that way you aren't trying to come up with something on the fly? My kids are working on one about maps and globes from Intelligo. I know there are other companies out there, that is just the one that I happen to use. I have a very visual learner and an auditory learner so watching the snippets and then doing the fun activities seems to work for both of them.

 

Brenda

[North Coast School]

What about trying him on First Language Lessons Level 2, Writing with Ease (WWE) and Story of the World (SOTW) Ancient Times? See how he reacts to the classical method. Add a more hands-on math program like RightStart math, or a more playful math program like Life of Fred. My kids like workbooky-style math, so we do Singapore (that worked for my reluctant DD).

[Lolly]

I have had him evaluated. I don't know if this counts but when we were looking at private schools they did some testing. He's behind in reading and math. I've had his vision and hearing both checked as well as a dyslexia screening.

 

Right now I have Oak Meadow curriculum. It's pretty light. We're doing a little bit of writing a little bit of reading a little bit of math. But even that he just doesn't want to do. I wonder if a more structured school textbook like program would be better for him. Do you have any suggestions?

 

It's like whenever I mention doing school everything in him just shuts down. I don't know why that is as I said before he's a really obedient and cooperative child in every other way. Something about school is just challenging for us both. I would be interested in suggestions for a more academic program that he could jump into where he is even though he's behind. Any ideas?

 

 

 

I am a Rod and Staff lover. I would suggest them for grammar and math. Try having him do his work on a white board instead of in a notebook or on paper. Downside- you will have to be right there. Upside-you will have to be right there. You will be providing instant feedback. You can keep the pace moving and keep him from becoming bogged down. Spelling- Writing Road to REading. Keep it short and sweet. Don't feel pressure to proceed as fast as the book suggests. History, what else, Story of the World. Reading- anything, just make sure you back up to a level where he is successful. Have him reread books he is comfortable with. Make sure to reread a lot! Science-anything again. Just play and have fun with it. Lots of mess and activity whenever possible.

[LittleIzumi]

I have had him evaluated. I don't know if this counts but when we were looking at private schools they did some testing. He's behind in reading and math. I've had his vision and hearing both checked as well as a dyslexia screening.

 

Right now I have Oak Meadow curriculum. It's pretty light. We're doing a little bit of writing a little bit of reading a little bit of math. But even that he just doesn't want to do. I wonder if a more structured school textbook like program would be better for him. Do you have any suggestions?

 

It's like whenever I mention doing school everything in him just shuts down. I don't know why that is as I said before he's a really obedient and cooperative child in every other way. Something about school is just challenging for us both. I would be interested in suggestions for a more academic program that he could jump into where he is even though he's behind. Any ideas?

 

 

Has he been evaluated for any other learning problems besides dyslexia? Shutting down for only school sounds like more is going on, and just a basic hearing and vision screen won't catch most learning problems.

[Lori D.]

 

Has he been evaluated for any other learning problems besides dyslexia? Shutting down for only school sounds like more is going on, and just a basic hearing and vision screen won't catch most learning problems.

 

 

 

Agree. I was thinking testing for visual or auditory processing problems, or possible vision tracking or eye divergence. These problems are not caught by routine vision and hearing examples which only look for blurred vision or loss of hearing.

[*Lulu*]

 

 

Has he been evaluated for any other learning problems besides dyslexia? Shutting down for only school sounds like more is going on, and just a basic hearing and vision screen won't catch most learning problems.

 

 

I wanted to agree with this and to suggest that while you are trying to dig down into the why of his behavior you do your best to keep school from being a dreaded word. Pack his day with things sure to give him some quick wins in order to build confidence. Save the challenges for subjects/topics he is already interested or invested in and more likely to tolerate digging deeper to succeed. Even if you discover there are no LD issues the successes will give a place to start building upon as you try to turn his educational experience around.

[Candid]

I have had him evaluated. I don't know if this counts but when we were looking at private schools they did some testing. He's behind in reading and math. I've had his vision and hearing both checked as well as a dyslexia screening.

 

 

 

If the private school was the one that did the testing, I'd find a professional in your area to do testing. The school is concerned about placement; you need more thorough testing done.

[LittleIzumi]

 

If the private school was the one that did the testing, I'd find a professional in your area to do testing. The school is concerned about placement; you need more thorough testing done.

 

Yup. The school testing just said dd was good at reading--nothing about the severe ADHD she has or the possible stealth dyslexia (both gifts from her daddy).

[PeterPan]

Yes, the evals people are talking about are more in-depth than what the private school did. Fwiw, most optometrists DON'T catch the developmental vision problems that affect school work. You have to go to a developmental optometrist (find through COVD) to get that. My dd was checked by several regular optometrists before her issues were caught.

 

Have you done any standardized testing? If the testing the ps did was not standardized, then it could have been skewed a bit. You can get standardized testing for $25-75. If you have insurance, your ped can refer you to a neuropsych for further eval. As the others said, when they've eliminated dyslexia, there's still a lot left that could be explained. Or you can self-pay and call neuropsychs yourself to set up an appt. Or you can go through the ps system (which sometimes is fine and sometimes isn't, just varies).

 

And yes, ditto that this is a really common age for evals. The weaknesses can't be hidden anymore, the expectations get harder. You need someone to talk things through with you if you aren't comfortable posting them here. A neuropsych (np) is going to talk about the pregnancy, birth, behavior, will look at videos you bring him of how the dc works, etc. etc. You're not giving a lot of indication here of seeing anything unusual in any areas, which is sort of odd. Either there's NOTHING wrong and you just need some standardized testing to show you that he's FINE when compared to an objective standard, or there is, your gut knows it, and you need help pulling together the pieces.

 

The Mislabeled Child by the Eides might help.

[AimeeM]

I also want to gently suggest you may want to look into other curriculum if you want to get them caught up enough to attend a brick and mortar school. Part of the driving force behind Oak Meadow is that it is *very* gentle in the early years. Using it all the way though isn't an issue because it becomes much more rigorous in the later grades, but it's a gradual progression.

[dorothythomas]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and advice. I will definitely talk to our pediatrician about getting him tested for developmental issues

 

My mommy gut however is telling me that this is more an emotional problem. There has been a lot of disruption in our lives the last few years. His school work has not been terribly consistent. There's not been much rhythm or routine and days are often hit or miss with schoolwork. I see him being enthusiastic about writing and reading when it's something that he wants to do. I feel like it's more my fault than anything else. For instance he can do addition and subtraction with carrying and borrowing and he knows most of his multiplication tables. But he really really hates to do it. And he makes careless mistakes often. It's like he understands it but when he is tested on it he can't manage to do it well. But if I'm working beside him to catch his mistakes then it's clear he understands how to do it.

 

With reading I think it's a practice thing and the fact that he hasn't learned phonics. When he was learning to read I didn't know about phonics-based learning and so he missed out on that. Now I'm wondering if the WRTR would be helpful for him or not. His confidence with reading is low although he loves audiobooks and can stay focused for long periods of time. As far as writing and spelling that's also difficult for him.

 

And maybe I know the answers myself. A standardized test is likely a good idea. But mostly he needs consistency and some things to spark the joy in school. I think too he might benefit from going back and learning phonograms and how to sound out words.

 

I'm just feeling overwhelmed and like I'm failing him. He seems so much farther behind than where a third-grader should be.

 

ETA: I should have mentioned to that he was diagnosed with a sensory processing disorder when he was four. It is pretty mild but it does mean that things like order and routine are important to him. I should look up what else it means. I know that he sometimes has trouble with being aware of his own body. We had to learn to help him learn to name the things he was feeling and noticing around him. I don't know how any of that might play into his school work. But I thought I should mention it.

[dorothythomas]

Also I'm wondering about FIAR or Beyond FIAR to help with school enjoyment while I focus on reading catch up. Maybe with WRTR and IEW? I don't know. He likes structure in his work and his world. Maybe that is a good combination?

[PeterPan]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and advice. I will definitely talk to our pediatrician about getting him tested for developmental issues

 

My mommy gut however is telling me that this is more an emotional problem. There has been a lot of disruption in our lives the last few years. His school work has not been terribly consistent. There's not been much rhythm or routine and days are often hit or miss with schoolwork. I see him being enthusiastic about writing and reading when it's something that he wants to do. I feel like it's more my fault than anything else. For instance he can do addition and subtraction with carrying and borrowing and he knows most of his multiplication tables. But he really really hates to do it. And he makes careless mistakes often. It's like he understands it but when he is tested on it he can't manage to do it well. But if I'm working beside him to catch his mistakes then it's clear he understands how to do it.

 

With reading I think it's a practice thing and the fact that he hasn't learned phonics. When he was learning to read I didn't know about phonics-based learning and so he missed out on that. Now I'm wondering if the WRTR would be helpful for him or not. His confidence with reading is low although he loves audiobooks and can stay focused for long periods of time. As far as writing and spelling that's also difficult for him.

 

And maybe I know the answers myself. A standardized test is likely a good idea. But mostly he needs consistency and some things to spark the joy in school. I think too he might benefit from going back and learning phonograms and how to sound out words.

 

I'm just feeling overwhelmed and like I'm failing him. He seems so much farther behind than where a third-grader should be.

 

ETA: I should have mentioned to that he was diagnosed with a sensory processing disorder when he was four. It is pretty mild but it does mean that things like order and routine are important to him. I should look up what else it means. I know that he sometimes has trouble with being aware of his own body. We had to learn to help him learn to name the things he was feeling and noticing around him. I don't know how any of that might play into his school work. But I thought I should mention it.

 

They don't typically diagnose adhd at that age, so that's why he only got the SPD. Take him back now and get the full np eval. Knowing that he's had the sensory diagnosis and that he's having issues, it's time.

[Koerarmoca]

My best advice, after HSing a delayed/reluctant learner two years, is to go for 80% "I know I can do this!" material every day, and only 20% challenging material. For a reluctant learner, often the struggle is having to deal with repeated failure and frustration. Giving them work that you and they KNOW they can do successfully, even if it is way below "grade level," gives a delayed/reluctant learner the feeling of WINNING at SCHOOL. Once they get used to that feeling, they will get to like it a great deal, and will be able to handle more challenging material as they progress.

I agree 100% my reluctant reader often needs me to pull out the easier level 1 or 2 books. I try to do this before she gets upset because at that point she gets into complaining, fighting me etc.

[Lolly]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and advice. I will definitely talk to our pediatrician about getting him tested for developmental issues

 

My mommy gut however is telling me that this is more an emotional problem. There has been a lot of disruption in our lives the last few years. His school work has not been terribly consistent. There's not been much rhythm or routine and days are often hit or miss with schoolwork. I see him being enthusiastic about writing and reading when it's something that he wants to do. I feel like it's more my fault than anything else. For instance he can do addition and subtraction with carrying and borrowing and he knows most of his multiplication tables. But he really really hates to do it. And he makes careless mistakes often. It's like he understands it but when he is tested on it he can't manage to do it well. But if I'm working beside him to catch his mistakes then it's clear he understands how to do it.

 

With reading I think it's a practice thing and the fact that he hasn't learned phonics. When he was learning to read I didn't know about phonics-based learning and so he missed out on that. Now I'm wondering if the WRTR would be helpful for him or not. His confidence with reading is low although he loves audiobooks and can stay focused for long periods of time. As far as writing and spelling that's also difficult for him.

 

And maybe I know the answers myself. A standardized test is likely a good idea. But mostly he needs consistency and some things to spark the joy in school. I think too he might benefit from going back and learning phonograms and how to sound out words.

 

I'm just feeling overwhelmed and like I'm failing him. He seems so much farther behind than where a third-grader should be.

 

ETA: I should have mentioned to that he was diagnosed with a sensory processing disorder when he was four. It is pretty mild but it does mean that things like order and routine are important to him. I should look up what else it means. I know that he sometimes has trouble with being aware of his own body. We had to learn to help him learn to name the things he was feeling and noticing around him. I don't know how any of that might play into his school work. But I thought I should mention it.

 

 

I've found the mommy gut to usually be correct. So, you start where he is and make sure it gets done. (I know easier said than done.) Offer bribes; I mean rewards. Keep the lesson time fairly short. Stay with him while he does his work. Writing and spelling ARE hard for 3rd graders. They are beginning to be asked to put a lot of little skills together at the same time. It seems like he is pretty on target for math. Disliking math doesn't matter; got to do it anyway. So, do it; then do something fun that he enjoys a lot.

[Trilliums]

This is out of character for him because otherwise he is a very cooperative and easy-going child. For some reason school work has become a button.

 

 

 

This is how my boys were as well and I understand how puzzling it is.

 

We started homeschooling when they were in K and grade 1. At that time I read TWTM, but I realized it just wasn't happening with my kids. We ended up being VERY relaxed homeschoolers. My kids were veritable sponges but produced little written work until around middle school. They did not need years of writing/spelling and math drills to work on grade level by the time they were in 8th grade. By high school they were eager to outsource classes and are now fairly advanced in high school classes.

 

Good luck whatever you decide. Just wanted to share that a relaxed approach in early years worked very well for us. We read, read, and read. And we talked about all kind of relationships and made observations. They are great teenagers now. Still cooperative and easy going too and still loving learning.

[lewelma]

. My third-grader is the one I'm worried about. He is behind in reading. He is behind in math. And he is very resistant to "school time." Even when I try and say let's just read together or let's do some writing instead of putting it in terms of doing school he gets very frustrated. He just doesn't want to do schoolwork. I'm wondering if it's because he's behind and so it's difficult.

 

I have not read all the posts, but it seems to me that you are giving him material that is too difficult. One of the wonderful things about homeschooling is that you can adapt to the child. Your ds is not behind, he is where *he* is supposed to be. You need to meet him there. He does not even need to know that he is behind a certain standard, he just needs to make appropriate progress every week. I would not even try to "catch him up" yet. I think he needs to have a good solid year of working at the level he is currently at, where the material is NOT too difficult, but is just right. It does not matter if this puts him in 2nd grade or even 1st grade for certain subjects. You cannot give him 3rd grade material to struggle through if he is not at that level yet -- he will not make any progress. IMHO he will learn faster and catch up easier if you put him at the appropriate level for each subject, and just take the attitude of "slow and steady" over the next few years. I would make the goal of catching him up by 8th grade, so he can have one good and solid pre-highschool year.

 

Ruth in NZ

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

For reading, there are several different options designed for older children.

 

1. Easiest for you--my online phonics lessons. They use the book of Romans. (linked in my signature.)

 

2. Not quite as easy but fairly easy and free, work through the things linked at the end of my how to tutor page. They include the optional use of Hebrews 12.

 

Both options 1 and 2 get to a 12th grade reading level by the end. Option 1 starts with 3 syllable words from the first lesson. Option two starts out with 1 syllable words but after a lesson or two gets to syllable division and 2 syllable words.

 

3. Back on the Right Track Reading

 

Option three does not get to quite as high of a reading level, but goes above 3rd grade level

[kiwik]

Maybe just work on a nice, safe routine with 3 10 minute lessons and take it from there?