Dog people: Help with housebreaking, please

[mamajag]

We have a 4-month-old Shih Tzu/Rat Terrier/Chihuahua mix named Hiro we are having difficulty housebreaking as far as his poop. He will go pee on a puppy pad flawlessly. He won't go do anything outside. I've been outside with him for as long as 2 hours after he eats and still he poops as soon as he's inside and off leash. The vet suggested we restrict him to the area where the pad is and not let him out when there is a possibility he'll poop and he'll get it, but if anything the problem is worse because he'll poop once, get out, and then poop in a corner somewhere. I don't know what to do at this point. I don't care if he always uses puppy pads, but I need him to get with the program either outside or with the pads.

 

In every other way he's a good dog. My son adores him. He's such a sweet little man, but if this continues my husband's going to run out of patience and Hiro won't have a home any more. He's told me I have a month to get this straightened out. Advice is appreciated.

[Hockey Mom]

We always kennel trained our dogs during the housebreaking period. They basically live in their kennels except for: feeding, playing, and going outside to go potty. There is no break from that routine until they are housebroken. They were never allowed free-roam during the housebreaking.

[mamajag]

We always kennel trained our dogs during the housebreaking period. They basically live in their kennels except for: feeding, playing, and going outside to go potty. There is no break from that routine until they are housebroken. They were never allowed free-roam during the housebreaking.

 

I've always had outside farm dogs, so I've never had to do this before. :) Right now we'll put him in the kennel if he goes somewhere he's not supposed to go, but that obviously isn't working.

 

So you're saying that unless you are literally right.there with them they stay in the kennel? I read about kennel training but my DH told me it sounded cruel and he wouldn't bond with the family if he wasn't out and about with us. I'm ready to try it because the other option is him being out of a home. I have DH gone for 5 days on business so maybe I can get started and show some positive progress (I'd be over the moon if he actually pooped outside!) when DH gets home.

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I want to do right by him but I was raised that dogs live in the yard! :)

[AK_Mom4]

I am going to guess that he probably doesn't know where he is supposed to go. Dogs are funny that way. Keep him on leash and leashed to someone at all times. Don't give him the opportunity to sneak off and go poo in the corner. Take him outside every 15-20 minutes until he goes poo outside and then make a big fuss about it. Usually after a few successes, most dogs will figure it out. Stick with it and you should be able to get him trained in a few days since he is already doing well with pee.

 

Absolutely do not give him freedom anywhere in the house until he gets this figured out. Kennel or on leash at all times.

[shanvan]

We also used a crate/kennel, but we had a schedule. I seem to remember that dogs usually go not too long after they are fed. I think feeding is supposed to stimulate a response.

 

Our schedule included playtime for the puppy, after he had gone outside and done his business. If no business was done after a while, then back to the kennel. They get the idea and after a while can spend more time out of the crate. It's not cruel, no offense to your Dh. My Dh and in-laws felt like that until they saw how well it worked. Chances are you won't be having lots of warm fuzzy bonding with your dog if he's doing his business int he house every time your turn around.

 

ETA: If he doesn't do anything and has to go back in the kennel, you can take him back out in a half hour or so and try again. When he finally does what he's supposed to and you praise him up and down and then play with him and allow him freedom, and then repeat, he's going to start connecting the dots.

[BrookValley.]

Crate training is a lot less cruel than being re-homed for pooping on the floor...and it won't last forever. He'll get plenty of bonding time when you take him outside to do his business and play and go for a walk and etc, etc. Definitely crate him, and make sure the crate is only big enough for him to turn comfortably. Bigger is not better! They make crates with moveable dividers so you can enlarge the space as puppy grows, but you need to keep the space small as you train so he doesn't want to soil where he lays.

[Hockey Mom]

You have to remember that dogs are den animals. They think of their kennels as a den, and it often times become their 'safe place'.

[bzymom]

Another vote for crate training. In the crate or completely supervised all.the.time. Out each time pup wakes up, after eating or drinking or playing. Take him out as often as possible, and do not play when you take him out for potty. give a cue ("go potty" "do business" whatever works for you), then stay in one place, with pup on leash, and wait. when he goes at all, big, happy fuss and treats. Make it a celebration-they love it, and will catch on quickly.

 

Be very watchful for any sign pup needs to go, and get him outside! Sniffing, squatting, pacing, etc.

 

We have never used pads as we only want our dogs pottying outside, so I don't know if the pads create a more difficult training experience?

 

I apologize for errors-on iPad in a hurry!

[mamajag]

We also used a crate/kennel, but we had a schedule. I seem to remember that dogs usually go not too long after they are fed. I think feeding is supposed to stimulate a response.

 

I have read that as well but it doesn't seem to apply to my little man. It can take hours for him to have to go after eating. We feed twice a day on schedule but when he needs to go seems to be totally random. It is almost as if he doesn't want us to see him poop or somehow being watched bothers him. I know how silly that sounds, but in the 2 months I've had him I've seen him poop once. No one else has, either.

 

 

 

Our schedule included playtime for the puppy, after he had gone outside and done his business. If no business was done after a while, then back to the kennel. They get the idea and after a while can spend more time out of the crate. It's not cruel, no offense to your Dh. My Dh and in-laws felt like that until they saw how well it worked. Chances are you won't be having lots of warm fuzzy bonding with your dog if he's doing his business int he house every time your turn around.

 

ETA: If he doesn't do anything and has to go back in the kennel, you can take him back out in a half hour or so and try again. When he finally does what he's supposed to and you praise him up and down and then play with him and allow him freedom, and then repeat, he's going to start connecting the dots.

 

 

I just read your post to my DH, and he is on board with kennel training as he doesn't see any other way about it. He just thinks it will lead to the dog being ignored somehow, but I agree that there's no bonding happening with me on poop patrol all the time. The dog was DH's idea...he's had indoor dogs in the past...and I thought he'd be taking the lead but with him traveling so much it just doesn't work.

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond. :)

[mamajag]

You have to remember that dogs are den animals. They think of their kennels as a den, and it often times become their 'safe place'.

 

 

I never would have thought about it that way, but it fits how he acts about his kennel. He's perfectly happy there overnight...

 

You wouldn't have any tips on snapping and mouthing? He's showing some of this today and I'd like to nip it in the bud before it gets out of hand. I've read about redirecting them to a chew toy, which works great when I do it, but I need plans for the kids as this is where he's acting out.

[LifeLovePassion]

I agree with crate training. It worked well for our yorkie. The other thing that helped was to bell train him. I hung bells on a ribbon and put it on the end of the railing by the door. Before I took him out I helped him ring the bells. He quickly caught onto that and had a reliable way to let us know he needed out.

[LaughingCat]

It might be helpful to take some of his poop (from when he goes indoors) and stick it outside in the spot where you want him to go, to help give him the idea (smell-fully) when he's out there. Another idea for indoors is to keep him on a leash right next to you - then you can see when he starts acting iffy and get him outside quickly (note: I found this one almost impossible with our current dog and a young child - so I kept her on a leash attached to the door right next to where we were at - moving her if we moved to another area of the house).

[Pawz4me]

It might be helpful to take some of his poop (from when he goes indoors) and stick it outside in the spot where you want him to go, to help give him the idea (smell-fully) when he's out there.

 

Or, if you want him to go on the pads (which I think in your case would be easier and likely more successful), put a little poop on the pads.

 

Along with some form of crate training or tethering to you.

 

FWIW, a lot of four-month old puppies aren't particularly predictable with their bowel movements. Usually, assuming a consistent feeding schedule, they do develop a predictable potty schedule as they get older. But I have met the rare adult dog who never developed any predictable schedule.

 

As far as training him where to go -- What's the weather like where you're at? Many small dogs just do not like going out in cold weather, and especially cold wet weather. We got our Shih Tzu as an 11-week old puppy at the end of November 2011. Even though our winters are relatively mild, I didn't even attempt to teach him to go outside for a few months. Instead, I worked on puppy pad training (which he picked up on very quickly). In the late winter/early spring when the weather got consistently better he started following the lead of our very reliably trained old, bigger dog and doing almost all of us business outside. But I still kept a puppy pad down for him, which he'd use occasionally. Come late fall/early winter, especially on wet days, he started using the puppy pads more again. I totally expect once the weather warms up that he'll consistently go outside again on dry days.

[AlmiraGulch]

Another vote here for crate training. It has always worked very well for me, and it isn't cruel at all. In addition to the "den" feeling, it's also similar to keeping a baby in a playpen. It establishes boundaries and keeps them safe.

 

Just be sure the crate is small enough. If it's big enough that the dog can eliminate in one part and still have room to move around and lay down in another, it will completely backfire.

[Chris in VA]

Am I right that you are keeping a pad in the area you section off for him, and then he's getting out and going somewhere else to poo? He probably doesn't want to soil his space. I agree with kenneling, with leashing in the house for short periods, with not using the crate for punishment, and with actually watching the dog outside. A little wet food mixed in with dry seems to work for some dogs to make them more likely to go after eating, but it's probably just something I'm attributing and not really true.

 

I know people use pads all the time, but I think it can give dogs a mixed message--it's ok to go inside, but we get upset if you do. I don't think a lot of young dogs can understand that the pad is the ONLY place inside they can go. Some do. Maybe the dogs I have encountered are just too young or too thick! lol

[Twinmom]

I agree with crate training. It worked well for our yorkie. The other thing that helped was to bell train him. I hung bells on a ribbon and put it on the end of the railing by the door. Before I took him out I helped him ring the bells. He quickly caught onto that and had a reliable way to let us know he needed out.

 

I've trained several dogs with bells and it works great! (It's also fun to watch the reactions of guests to bells randomly ringing...they think your dog is really smart!) Combine it with crate training and you have a winning combination. I'd advise you to ditch the puppy pads, though. Especially as a dog gets older, they just train a dog to go INSIDE instead of out. Make out the only option and you'll have an easier time.

 

Oh, and if you feel guilty about leaving the dog in the crate too much, give him a break tethered to you on a leash. That way, he can't sneak off and go in a corner!

[Saddlemomma]

Okay, I'm probably going to get flames for this, but I have had dogs all my life. Once I moved out of my house, I promised myself I would never be like my parents and just let the dogs go anywhere they wanted! It was very embarrassing growing up in a house filled with pee-soaked papers!

 

Each puppy I've had has been trained within 3-4 days. I never used papers or puppy pads. Those just train the dog that it's okay to go in the house. Regardless of how you clean afterwards, a dog can still smell the residue of where they did their business on the floor. The pad is IN the house and you tell the dog it's okay to go on the pad IN the house. Doesn't make sense to the dog when you then try to tell him to go outside the house. I know people think they're great, but I don't subscribe to them. Pads are a marketing gimmick, that's all.

 

When I first bring a puppy home, I take him out every 20 minutes, whether he needs it or not. When he goes (either) I praise heavily, and then bring him in. Secondly, I watch him constantly. If I'm in a room working or doing something for an extended time, that puppy is in the same room so I can see his behavior. If I see the puppy start walking around sniffing, I immediately scoop him up and take him outside. If he goes, I praise heavily. If the puppy has an accident - I do punish. I immediately rub his nose in it (or close to it if poo) give him a firm slap (not enough to do damage) on the backside, speak sternly and put him outside. If the accident was poo, I'll move the poo outside and take him over to it and make him smell it again. Then he stays outside for a little while (15 mins. or so).

 

At night, the puppy is crated. It's NOT cruel. All my dogs loved their crates and after they were trained, preferred to sleep in them even with the doors open. I even had one of my three, go to bed on his own every night precisely at 8 PM. He would walk to his crate, open the door with his paw, crawl in, snuggle in his bed and go to sleep. We'd not see him until the next morning. Their crate becomes their security blanket....really!

 

The dog we currently have (others died of age-related issues) I got in September. He was 7 mos. at the time. Thankfully he was already potty trained, but not crate trained. He howled the first night, so I did let him out (since he's already potty trained). The next time, I put him in his crate, I gave him a shin bone stuffed with peanut butter, and never heard a peep. Now he eagerly goes to his crate when we leave the house because he knows he'll get his special treat. The ONLY time he gets that treat is when he's in his crate. This associates the "special" privilege with the crate.

 

It's intensive work and if you have a lot of kids and activities in the house, you'll need help. However, it's only for 3-4 days (mine actually caught on within 2 days or so, but I've added a few because all dogs are different).

 

Since you've already started using pads, I would immediately move the pad outside and start the process from day 1. That's just my suggestion, and I realize not everyone will see things the way I do.

 

Best of luck with your little guy!

[Kebo]

If you aren't already, I would start using a catch phrase (like "go potty!" or "hurry up!" in an upbeat voice) and positive reinforcements in the form of extra yummy treats. We used liverwurst, chicken baby food, and cheese whiz. My thick-headed, food-oriented puppy (not the sweetie in my avatar) would NOT house train until we added treats. Then he caught on in a flash. But, you do have to be able to catch them in the act for this to work, and I would not give any treats at other times until training is complete. Clicker training might also work, though I haven't used it for this purpose.

 

Personally, I would also ditch the pads, and not let the puppy out of my sight unless crated.

 

Good luck!

[mamajag]

To all the people who recommended crating him, THANK YOU! I kept him crated today except when I or one of the older kids was *right there*. This evening he gave up trying to wait me out and actually pooped dead center of the pad. I had gotten him out to take him outside again but poor guy couldn't wait any more. I'm calling it a small victory. Then after supper he did it again. I have hope for the little guy now and feel bad that it was a dumb dog owner's fault. We praised him like he was the coolest dog ever both times and I gave him his favorite treats.

 

We took the day off from homeschool when we realized that tiny dog can drown all of us out being unhappy about being crated when he's used to using my house as a bathroom, but he has calmed down tonight. I gave him his favorite toy as someone suggested, and he calmed right down.

 

I just want to say thank you to everyone who posted in this thread because tonight my little boy doesn't have to worry about losing his dog over housebreaking issues. We are so grateful. :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

[shanvan]

To all the people who recommended crating him, THANK YOU! I kept him crated today except when I or one of the older kids was *right there*. This evening he gave up trying to wait me out and actually pooped dead center of the pad. I had gotten him out to take him outside again but poor guy couldn't wait any more. I'm calling it a small victory. Then after supper he did it again. I have hope for the little guy now and feel bad that it was a dumb dog owner's fault. We praised him like he was the coolest dog ever both times and I gave him his favorite treats.

 

We took the day off from homeschool when we realized that tiny dog can drown all of us out being unhappy about being crated when he's used to using my house as a bathroom, but he has calmed down tonight. I gave him his favorite toy as someone suggested, and he calmed right down.

 

I just want to say thank you to everyone who posted in this thread because tonight my little boy doesn't have to worry about losing his dog over housebreaking issues. We are so grateful. :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

 

 

Congrats! :thumbup: That is really good news. Sounds like you are on your way to developing some sort of routine. It should get easier for you. I liked deciding I would stop and take our puppy out every so often b/c during the time he was in his crate I knew I could go about my business guilt free since I knew another outdoor time and playtime would be coming up soon. We also kept his crate near us, so he was physically close to where we schooled.

 

Our last puppy was purchased for Dd and she did an awful lot of the housebreaking without me. It was a great learning experience for her and she was very responsible about it. I did some overseeing, but I have to give her credit. I can't say the kid wanted the dog and then didn't want to put the work in. Even now that he's almost 2 years old Dd is very good about exercising him. She puts him on the treadmill every day and takes him out back to practice agility and out front to practice obedience. Dog training has been a wonderful experience for my Dc.

[mamajag]

 

Congrats! :thumbup: That is really good news. Sounds like you are on your way to developing some sort of routine. It should get easier for you. I liked deciding I would stop and take our puppy out every so often b/c during the time he was in his crate I knew I could go about my business guilt free since I knew another outdoor time and playtime would be coming up soon. We also kept his crate near us, so he was physically close to where we schooled.

 

Our last puppy was purchased for Dd and she did an awful lot of the housebreaking without me. It was a great learning experience for her and she was very responsible about it. I did some overseeing, but I have to give her credit. I can't say the kid wanted the dog and then didn't want to put the work in. Even now that he's almost 2 years old Dd is very good about exercising him. She puts him on the treadmill every day and takes him out back to practice agility and out front to practice obedience. Dog training has been a wonderful experience for my Dc.

 

 

We are quite excited as a family. I am trying to build some sort of routine for him beyond being fed at the same time every day. I took him out 4 times today and oddly enough all of the kids have played with him more because "he's got to be bored in that box all day". i don't think he's gotten that much positive attention in a while. It's making us think about him and what his needs are more than when he's simply hanging out in the kitchen.

 

We got the dog for my son. The girls take care of their cats, and when my son wanted a pet he was solidly in the dog camp. He's too young to be responsible for the dog on his own, but he does feed and water the dog and will set out new pads when reminded. He adores Hiro, and the dog has a spot in my heart as well. I'd just be sick if we couldn't get this under control for him. Thanks to crating, I think we have an honest to goodness shot at it. :D

[shanvan]

We are quite excited as a family. I am trying to build some sort of routine for him beyond being fed at the same time every day. I took him out 4 times today and oddly enough all of the kids have played with him more because "he's got to be bored in that box all day". i don't think he's gotten that much positive attention in a while. It's making us think about him and what his needs are more than when he's simply hanging out in the kitchen.

 

We got the dog for my son. The girls take care of their cats, and when my son wanted a pet he was solidly in the dog camp. He's too young to be responsible for the dog on his own, but he does feed and water the dog and will set out new pads when reminded. He adores Hiro, and the dog has a spot in my heart as well. I'd just be sick if we couldn't get this under control for him. Thanks to crating, I think we have an honest to goodness shot at it. :D

 

 

It's interesting the way crating has made your Dc more conscious of your dog. I wouldn't have thought of that. I didn't mean to imply that your Ds should be doing all the things my Dd did. She was 9 when we got her puppy and desperately wanted her own dog for 4H. She had already seen me and Ds housebreak his puppy when she was younger. Your Ds will learn a lot just from the helping he does. He's a lucky kid to have parents who will are willing to let him get the pet of his choice.

 

If you want to enhance the learning experience, you might consider posting a typed schedule (without specific times) and slip it into a sheet protector. Your Ds or other Dc can check off as they do what is on the list. I think I listed morning and afternoon about how many times the puppy should go out (I probably figured every 30 minutes and then changed it as he got better), followed by play time. I also included some games and other things we were teaching the puppy (like sit). One of the games for teaching the dog to come when called was to have several family members stand as far apart as we could (with treats in our hands) and take turns calling the dog to us. When he came to one of us we gave him a treat and fussed over him. We didn't have to use it with Dd's dog, but you can buy a 30 ft leash just in case the dog doesn't come so you can reel him in to help him get the idea. Dd loved that game. There are quite a few simple games you can do that your Dc might enjoy. A great one for your Ds to try to teach his dog is "look" (some people use the word "watch'). it is simply giving the dog a treat for looking at you. You can google for a better explanation. Dd's dog was the first dog we taught 'look' and I wish I would have done it with all my dogs. You can also add 'sit' and 'down' to the list. Have you thought about looking for a 4H dog club at some point? We have some very young kids in our club and my Dd started when she was 6.

[Twinmom]

So happy for you! Another thing you might try is implementing a simple praise command that is repeated whenever you want him to eliminate. For example, when you take him outside, say something over and over again like, "that's it, that's it...go potty!" (That's our command phrase!). Takes them a while, but after a few weeks to a month dependent on your dog, they will know exactly what you mean when you say it! Now, my four and a half month old golden retriever will go on command every time I take him out! It is a beautiful thing. :)

[mamajag]

It's interesting the way crating has made your Dc more conscious of your dog. I wouldn't have thought of that. I didn't mean to imply that your Ds should be doing all the things my Dd did. She was 9 when we got her puppy and desperately wanted her own dog for 4H. She had already seen me and Ds housebreak his puppy when she was younger. Your Ds will learn a lot just from the helping he does. He's a lucky kid to have parents who will are willing to let him get the pet of his choice.

 

My younger dd is the main one who wants to get him out. She is very active and more attached to Hiro than she'll admit, and she has the same idea that DH and I did that crate training is somehow depriving him. It involves her more in the dog's life. In fact, I just called down to my IL's house and was asked if I got Hiro out to play while they are gone. It's an interesting side effect to be sure.

 

I didn't take it as my son should do everything, no worries. My son is in preschool, so feeding/watering and putting down pads is fantastic and something he takes a lot of pride in. I've just never had dogs in the house. Mine were all outside dogs that watched over the livestock, and a lot of that isn't trained it's just part of the dog's instinct if you pick the right breed and temperament.

 

If you want to enhance the learning experience, you might consider posting a typed schedule (without specific times) and slip it into a sheet protector. Your Ds or other Dc can check off as they do what is on the list. I think I listed morning and afternoon about how many times the puppy should go out (I probably figured every 30 minutes and then changed it as he got better), followed by play time. I also included some games and other things we were teaching the puppy (like sit). One of the games for teaching the dog to come when called was to have several family members stand as far apart as we could (with treats in our hands) and take turns calling the dog to us. When he came to one of us we gave him a treat and fussed over him. We didn't have to use it with Dd's dog, but you can buy a 30 ft leash just in case the dog doesn't come so you can reel him in to help him get the idea. Dd loved that game. There are quite a few simple games you can do that your Dc might enjoy. A great one for your Ds to try to teach his dog is "look" (some people use the word "watch'). it is simply giving the dog a treat for looking at you. You can google for a better explanation. Dd's dog was the first dog we taught 'look' and I wish I would have done it with all my dogs. You can also add 'sit' and 'down' to the list. Have you thought about looking for a 4H dog club at some point? We have some very young kids in our club and my Dd started when she was 6.

 

 

I just searched and there is no 4H dog club in our state. It's all livestock here. :(

 

Thank you for the games ideas. I bought a book today with some ideas, too, and hopefully we will be well on our way soon with Hiro.