Pope Benedict resigned...

[MBM]

 

Yes, him and all the other Popes. They die in office. That's what they do. And they don't all die suddenly when they are well.

 

 

My guess is that he's probably very sick, much sicker than he appears.

[Parrothead]

I am not catholic so I am not up on all the rules, but I didn't know a pope could resign. I thought it was a "til death" kind of job. I am very surprised.

 

They can resign. I had started wondering when Blessed JPII would resign since his health was declining so badly at the end. It isn't unheard of, but it isn't usual.

[UrbanSue]

 

 

 

Edited: Timing is a bit odd. Right before Lent. You'd think he would have done so prior to beginning of Litergical year?

 

 

Maybe he thought that a conclave would be appropriately penitential for the cadinals :)

 

And it will be neat to have a new Pope for Easter.

[MBM]

That was my first thought. I wonder if he has early signs of dementia.

 

 

I'm thinking this may be a possibility as well.

[UrbanSue]

My prayers are with Catholic friends as this transition happens. I can understand that you'd be unsettled. I'm sure it will all come out OK.

 

As it happens I'm reading a book about Celestine V right now. Otherwise I wouldn't have known a Pope could resign either.

 

 

You reminded me that we were given that book for Christmas. I was looking for something to read this week . . .

[Parrothead]

I heard on the news that he's been told that he should not be taking any long flights, which would certainly curtail visits to foreign countries. If you notice, he's been walking with a cane for a while now too. I think it's likely due to failing health. The College of Cardinals has more Cardinals now than it ever has (IIRC), so it will be an interesting Conclave. I wonder though why, if the Pope is simply resigning, they have to wait until he has actually stepped down to enter the Conclave. Wouldn't it be better to just elect a Pope who can step right in?

 

When we were in Vatican City a few months back, there was almost nothing with Benedict on it. It was almost exclusively John-Paul. He was like the rock star of Popes.

 

 

We can't have two popes so just like when a pope dies the conclave can't start until after the resignation is final. I do hope that the CofC is all ready to go on the day/time of the resignation.

 

Yeah, Blessed JPII was like Elizabeth II, the only pope many people knew.

[Lady Florida.]

The Holy Father is doing better than many octogenarians in this regard. He has been a vocal advocate for using "new media". He even has a Twitter account :)

 

 

 

My 88 yo FIL is on facebook. MIL is 87 won't have anything to do with computers, but she has a Kindle, only because dh and his sibs bought her one, but she loves it. You have to admire people of that age who are willing to give new media and technology a try. :)

[Lady Florida.]

You and I may have a different vision of the *why* behind unsettled though.

 

 

I think that might be it.

[SarahW]

My biggest frustration is all the stupid talking heads on TV.

 

On BBCA this morning some lady said that all Catholics are upset because they "pray to the Pope." "Pray to the Pope"? I hope she misspoke and meant "pray for the Pope."

 

Then just now on MSNBC a guy said, with a straight face, that, since the Pope is infallible, this was the right decision. What?

 

I'm not Roman Catholic, and I know that this is just dumb!

 

Ugh, reminds me of the watching the funeral of JPII on CNN. I wish religion correspondents knew more about, oh, I don't know, religion!

[mommymilkies]

I too am feeling ... unsettled by this. He's only my second Pope and I don't like not knowing what's going to happen.

 

Very strangely though I was wondering how old he was yesterday in Mass and how much longer we'd have him. One of DH's friends made a comment (and I've heard it from others) that the Church will end with this Pope and while I don't believe silly predictions of the future I'd sure like another nice Pope appointed quickly.

 

 

Can someone explain to me the end of Vatican II? I keep hearing this, but as someone who rarely went to Mass as a kid (with one Catholic step-father) and has been now reading and pondering conversion, I'm totally in the dark!

[Parrothead]

 

Wow. I didn't expect to see 2 new popes so close to each other.

 

Blessed JPII was a bit of an anomaly. The usual is not decades as pope.

[windmillmarie]

Where would be a facts-only place to follow news of this and of the upcoming decision of a new Pope? I am very interested to see what happens. Our Diocese has had a big explosion in new members attending Latin Mass and more of the parishes around here are offering it. Growing up, only one or two were and they were downtown and the older generation mostly attended. This all changed over the last few years due to the shift toward tradition. I wonder how this will be affected? I keep running into young families that will go to our Latin Mass. A younger Pope that could balance this and new traditions would be interesting.

[Parrothead]

I too am feeling ... unsettled by this. He's only my second Pope and I don't like not knowing what's going to happen.

 

Very strangely though I was wondering how old he was yesterday in Mass and how much longer we'd have him. One of DH's friends made a comment (and I've heard it from others) that the Church will end with this Pope and while I don't believe silly predictions of the future I'd sure like another nice Pope appointed quickly.

 

Nothing bad will happen. Benedict will resign, the CofC will elect another among themselves and the Church will continue, unbroken, as it has for the last 2013 years. :grouphug:

[Violet Crown]

Toward the end of John Paul's reign, it was pretty solid gossip (pardon the oxymoron) that Cdl. Ratzinger strongly felt that the "pope as witness to suffering" approach of his predecessor was misguided. His resignation statement of this morning is actually pretty blunt about that. And there had been Vatican chatter this last week about resignation. So I'm not shocked.

 

The spurious "prophecy of Malachy" proved useless when the "man of Olives" turned out to be Cdl. Ratzinger I mean, if it was real, it would have had to be Cdl. Martini, right?

 

I bet Fellay is waking up to some regrets.

 

 

[Parrothead]

He's thinking of the prophecies of Malachy. I put them in the same reliability category as the Mayan calendar, personally. All the same, I'll probably try to get to confession this month :)

 

Yes. And even if Malachy's prophecy is true there is one more after Benedict. No worries either way. If the new guy takes the name Peter II things will be interesting.

[Lady Florida.]

Nothing bad will happen. Benedict will resign, the CofC will elect another among themselves and the Church will continue, unbroken, as it has for the last 2013 years. :grouphug:

 

 

 

This is what I'm trying to say. Why be concerned about it, other than for the health of your Pope?

[UrbanSue]

Can someone explain to me the end of Vatican II? I keep hearing this, but as someone who rarely went to Mass as a kid (with one Catholic step-father) and has been now reading and pondering conversion, I'm totally in the dark!

 

 

 

Vatican II was an Ecumenical Council of which there have been 21. The Councils are typically named after their location. So, Vatican II because it was the second one held at the Vatican (the first was in the 19th century).

 

It ended in 1965 but, as is typical for all Councils, what it meant and does mean as the church grows and develops is still unfolding and you will find that it can be a contentious topic among Catholics of all stripes.

[dangermom]

 

Ugh, reminds me of the watching the funeral of JPII on CNN. I wish religion correspondents knew more about, oh, I don't know, religion!

 

I KNOW RIGHT?!

 

Good golly, what idiocy. :cursing:

[Parrothead]

I wish him good health and comfort, no matter what. I can't imagine working through that sort of system and stepping down. It's not like being the president where you know you have a limited term.

 

If he truly feels that he cannot perform his duties due to his health, I laud him for knowing when he needed to turn it over. The Catholic church worldwide deserves competent, strong leadership.

 

Praying for my Catholic brothers and sisters, for Pope Benedict (will he retain his title? I'm not sure what to call him. I'm sure God will understand) and for the cardinals as they pick a successor.

 

Someone is going to have to go to the history books and see what tradition says. I wonder if he will go back to being Bishop Ratzinger.

[UrbanSue]

Where would be a facts-only place to follow news of this and of the upcoming decision of a new Pope? I am very interested to see what happens. Our Diocese has had a big explosion in new members attending Latin Mass and more of the parishes around here are offering it. Growing up, only one or two were and they were downtown and the older generation mostly attended. This all changed over the last few years due to the shift toward tradition. I wonder how this will be affected? I keep running into young families that will go to our Latin Mass. A younger Pope that could balance this and new traditions would be interesting.

 

 

 

Maybe other people will have a better idea but you might try Real Clear Religion. At least there you'd get stories from all over. I'm terrible for news sources. As I said before, my dh is a theology professor in a Catholic seminary and I found out about this here.

 

If you want sympathetic news I might try National Catholic Register.

[Parrothead]

I'm curious as to why. There have been 6 Popes in my lifetime, 5 of them while I still called myself Catholic. Popes, like presidents, come and go.

 

I've only known 4. But I don't really remember Paul VI.

[UrbanSue]

Someone is going to have to go to the history books and see what tradition says. I wonder if he will go back to being Bishop Ratzinger.

 

 

It would not surprise me if he is terminal and will not live long past February 28th. It also wouldn't surprise me if he lives for fifteen more years in a hut in the middle of the Black Forest surrounded by books and his piano.

[UrbanSue]

This is what I'm trying to say. Why be concerned about it, other than for the health of your Pope?

 

 

 

As a faithful Catholic, I am confident that the Holy Spirit will guide the Cardinals to the right decision. I'm not worried. But it's no secret to anyone that each pope brings a new style and character to the papacy and to the worldwide Church. It's normal to feel anxious and excited about that.

[Parrothead]

 

Yes, him and all the other Popes. They die in office. That's what they do. And they don't all die suddenly when they are well.

 

John Paul the First was pretty sudden. Although he wasn't what anyone would call well since he was on meds.

[Lady Florida.]

I've only known 4. But I don't really remember Paul VI.

 

 

Yeah, I don't remember Pius XII. I just know that he was the Pope in my lifetime.

[Parrothead]

Can someone explain to me the end of Vatican II? I keep hearing this, but as someone who rarely went to Mass as a kid (with one Catholic step-father) and has been now reading and pondering conversion, I'm totally in the dark!

 

A small group of Catholics are not cool with the reforms VII brought. They would prefer the reforms be put to an end and that we go back to the way things were prior to 1969. They are in a minority, but they are very vocal.

[Violet Crown]

 

 

It would not surprise me if he is terminal and will not live long past February 28th. It also wouldn't surprise me if he lives for fifteen more years in a hut in the middle of the Black Forest surrounded by books and his piano.

 

And cats.

[Violet Crown]

 

A small group of Catholics are not cool with the reforms VII brought. They would prefer the reforms be put to an end and that we go back to the way things were prior to 1969. They are in a minority, but they are very vocal.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that.... ;)

[Parrothead]

 

It would not surprise me if he is terminal and will not live long past February 28th. It also wouldn't surprise me if he lives for fifteen more years in a hut in the middle of the Black Forest surrounded by books and his piano.

 

I pray it is the second option. That is all the man has wanted for the last decade or so.

[Tiramisu]

Where would be a facts-only place to follow news of this and of the upcoming decision of a new Pope? I am very interested to see what happens. Our Diocese has had a big explosion in new members attending Latin Mass and more of the parishes around here are offering it. Growing up, only one or two were and they were downtown and the older generation mostly attended. This all changed over the last few years due to the shift toward tradition. I wonder how this will be affected? I keep running into young families that will go to our Latin Mass. A younger Pope that could balance this and new traditions would be interesting.

 

 

If we were to truly find a balance, we'd need inspiring, traditional popes for the next fifty years. :laugh:

[UrbanSue]

A small group of Catholics are not cool with the reforms VII brought. They would prefer the reforms be put to an end and that we go back to the way things were prior to 1969. They are in a minority, but they are very vocal.

 

 

And at the other end of the spectrum are those who believe that having Mass in English (which is the biggest change average Catholics saw after VII) means that all bets are off and we can make the Church whatever we want. (This is a caricature meant to illustrate that others feel the Church did not go far enough with VII).

 

So, as you are watching and reading coverage, bear in mind that "Vatican II" and "post-Vatican II" is loaded language for many Catholics. A reporter saying the new pope will be "post-Vatican II" could just mean "young" but he could also mean, "Please, Lord, make this guy reasonable and modern!"

[UrbanSue]

I pray it is the second option. That is all the man has wanted for the last decade or so.

 

 

 

I know. I mentioned that in an earlier post as well. I hope the man has rest of one kind or another.

[runbikeswim]

I am surprised but not unsettled in any way. I think at 85, it was just too much for him. I appreciate that he realizes this and can step down. It must be hard to abdicate. I realize many popes have been sicker and more frail and have not made this choice, but who am I to question their reasons. I know that when my body fails me and I'm not able to do the things I want, it is certainly upsetting and I feel like I'm letting others down. And I'm not leading a billion people, only my small family.

 

I'm excited to see who will be elected from this conclave.

[Parrothead]

I just read Pope B's statement as it was posted on BBC, and it does seem pretty clear he is resigning for health reasons.

[TammyS]

I will miss him as Pope. I loved JP2 and I love my German Sheppard, B16. He's a holy and scholarly man. I was very happy with his selection and I hope we get someone just as good, though possibly more vocal. Cardinal Arinze would be awesome, but he may be considered too old.

[windmillmarie]

 

 

Maybe other people will have a better idea but you might try Real Clear Religion. At least there you'd get stories from all over. I'm terrible for news sources. As I said before, my dh is a theology professor in a Catholic seminary and I found out about this here.

 

If you want sympathetic news I might try National Catholic Register.

 

 

 

 

I appreciate it! Thank you. Wow. Seems like a lot of people are blindsided! I wonder if this entire process will give we Chreasters a kick in the pants to come back more fully into Church again? I have been batting it around for a while as my kids are starting to ask questions. Perhaps I should check out the Catholic social group thread, whichever one that is.

[Orthodox6]

My reflex thought was that perhaps he has received a diagnosis of Alzheimer's, and he wishes to resign before his symptoms worsen sufficiently that he no longer can do his job.

[AimeeM]

 

 

 

I appreciate it! Thank you. Wow. Seems like a lot of people are blindsided! I wonder if this entire process will give we Chreasters a kick in the pants to come back more fully into Church again? I have been batting it around for a while as my kids are starting to ask questions. Perhaps I should check out the Catholic social group thread, whichever one that is.

 

Crossing the Tiber

[MBM]

A small group of Catholics are not cool with the reforms VII brought. They would prefer the reforms be put to an end and that we go back to the way things were prior to 1969. They are in a minority, but they are very vocal.

 

 

Do you mean Opus Dei? I am surrounded by them where I live in Illinois. One of my friends who is OD (I'm not, btw) had a number of her children baptized by Pope John Paul II. We used to joke that she had a hotline to the Vatican. I think some of the members just might! LOL.

 

Have any of you seen the Italian movie We Have a Pope (Habemus Papam)? I didn't care much for the story line -- a bit silly -- but it does do an okay job showing what happens when choosing the Pope.

 

ETA: Father Barron's website Word On Fire is going to have continually updated links to information also:

 

http://www.wordonfire.org/WoF-Blog/WoF-Blog.aspx

 

For those who are interested, you can find a recent entry about Vatican II there if you search a bit.

[Parrothead]

I will miss him as Pope. I loved JP2 and I love my German Sheppard, B16. He's a holy and scholarly man. I was very happy with his selection and I hope we get someone just as good, though possibly more vocal. Cardinal Arinze would be awesome, but he may be considered too old.

 

 

Oh I was hoping for Cardinal A when B16 was elected. But now he is 80 so I don't think it will happen.

 

I would absolutely love it if Timothy Dolan is elected pope.

[chiguirre]

Here's a link to an article about the papabiles along with the British odds on them:

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-will-replace-pope-benedict-2013-2?op=1

 

It's an interesting list.

[I.Dup.]

I'm not Catholic so I'm not exactly sure how these things are handled. JPII was Pope throughout my life and it was interesting to see all the pomp involved in selecting a new Pope. My first thought when I heard the news was the immense humility of his actions. To voluntarily set aside all that power because you know, due to your health, someone else could do the job better, is very touching. I"m assuming of course, that that's the reason for his resignation.

 

My prayers to all our Catholic boardies and to the worldwide Church in general.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Toward the end of John Paul's reign, it was pretty solid gossip (pardon the oxymoron) that Cdl. Ratzinger strongly felt that the "pope as witness to suffering" approach of his predecessor was misguided. His resignation statement of this morning is actually pretty blunt about that. And there had been Vatican chatter this last week about resignation. So I'm not shocked.

 

 

This is what I am thinking. It was just as unsettling to watch JPII suffer and die in office. :(

 

We are new Catholics so I don't quite grasp the "bigness" of this, but I am feeling unsettled. The Church really doesn't need another scandal, and of course that is what everyone is thinking. :(

[Parrothead]

 

 

 

I appreciate it! Thank you. Wow. Seems like a lot of people are blindsided! I wonder if this entire process will give we Chreasters a kick in the pants to come back more fully into Church again? I have been batting it around for a while as my kids are starting to ask questions. Perhaps I should check out the Catholic social group thread, whichever one that is.

 

This should take you to the last page so you can post any questions without having to read through 20+ pages. Pax.

[UrbanSue]

Do you mean Opus Dei? I am surrounded by them where I live in Illinois. One of my friends who is OD (I'm not, btw) had a number of her children baptized by Pope John Paul II. We used to joke that she had a hotline to the Vatican. I think some of the members just might! LOL.

 

Have any of you seen the Italian movie We Have a Pope (Habemus Papam)? I didn't care much for the story line -- a bit silly -- but it does do an okay job showing what happens when choosing the Pope.

 

 

Opus Dei is not traditionally known as super-traditional liturgically. They do like beautiful liturgy and Latin but there are definitely more "extreme" Catholics out there.

 

The entire rite of the Mass was redone after Vatican II. Benedict XVI re-instated the "old" Mass as a licit option (you needed an indult to say it previously). They are now called the "Ordinary Form" and the "Extraordinary Form". The Ordinary Form is often called the "Novus Ordo" and the Extraordinary Form is sometimes called the "Tridentine Mass" or "Traditional Latin Mass".

 

SOME, but not nearly all, of those who prefer the old Mass are or were in formal schism with the Catholic Church. Opus Dei is just a lay movement you can join. They typically just go to their local parishes.

[Parrothead]

Do you mean Opus Dei? I am surrounded by them where I live in Illinois. One of my friends who is OD (I'm not, btw) had a number of her children baptized by Pope John Paul II. We used to joke that she had a hotline to the Vatican. I think some of the members just might! LOL.

 

Have any of you seen the Italian movie We Have a Pope (Habemus Papam)? I didn't care much for the story line -- a bit silly -- but it does do an okay job showing what happens when choosing the Pope.

 

ETA: Father Barron's website Word On Fire is going to have continually updated links to information also:

 

http://www.wordonfir...g/WoF-Blog.aspx

 

For those who are interested, you can find a recent entry about Vatican II there if you search a bit.

 

No, not Opus Dei. Just people who would rather have TLM over NO and a few other things.

[UrbanSue]

Oh I was hoping for Cardinal A when B16 was elected. But now he is 80 so I don't think it will happen.

 

I would absolutely love it if Timothy Dolan is elected pope.

 

 

I will be shocked if an American is chosen. I don't think that would be great for the worldwide church (much as I love America). Dh and I were rooting for Arinze as well but, yeah, I don't seem them choosing another old guy :)

[TammyS]

Do you mean Opus Dei?

 

She probably means SSPX and Lefeberites (probably spelled wrong). They are people who believe that there has not been a legitimate pope since Pius 10th, that Vat II was not a true council, that the novus ordo is not a legitimate mass, blah blah blah. Some people call them "more Catholic than the pope"; really they are protestants with smells and bells.

[Parrothead]

Thank you.

 

 

 

This is what I am thinking. It was just as unsettling to watch JPII suffer and die in office. :(

 

We are new Catholics so I don't quite grasp the "bigness" of this, but I am feeling unsettled. The Church really doesn't need another scandal, and of course that is what everyone is thinking. :(

It isn't scandalous for the pope to resign. Just not common. And really if anyone reads his resignation statement it is clear this is for health reasons.

[Parrothead]

 

 

I will be shocked if an American is chosen. I don't think that would be great for the worldwide church (much as I love America). Dh and I were rooting for Arinze as well but, yeah, I don't seem them choosing another old guy :)

True. I don't think it will actually happen, but a girl can hope.

[TammyS]

No, not Opus Dei. Just people who would rather have TLM over NO and a few other things.

 

There really are two different things. There are people (like myself) who DO prefer TLM over NO....but recognize it as a personal *preference* and not a matter of legitimacy. Then there are the SSPX people who consider the NO illegitimate and even immoral.