Would you choose SL or Omnibus for 7th grade? Or neither!?

[lamolina]

These seem like opposites to me but I am interested in both and having a tough time choosing. I like what seems to be the challenge of Omnibus but also the piles of interesting books in SL.

 

Any thoughts or input from those of you who have used either?

 

Thanks!

[G5052]

I'd do Sonlight. That is such a transition year in terms of physical and emotional development, and I love the warmth of Sonlight for that time of life. Omnibus has a place, but we like to defer it. YMMV...

[LindaOz]

SL is a winner here. My 7th grader is doing Core G. It's good. It's taking her up a level from where she was and is moving at a good pace for that age. That would be my recommendation.

[lamolina]

If you defer Omnibus until later, do you still start with the 1st one?

 

And while using SL do you still add in some of the "great books"? I think that is what i like about Omnibus is that it helps me know how to do the Great Books while I like SL because the reading looks more interesting. But I am afraid with SL that we will just miss a lot of the classics which are replaced with historical fiction.

 

Thoughts on that?

[lamolina]

One more SL question. My son strongly dislikes being read to. If he does Core G but without doing read alouds then could you explain to me what is the difference between using the Core and just giving him the books from the Core G booklist?? Thanks!

[PeterPan]

If you like Omnibus that much, you should just do it. Look at the list of the books in Omnibus and chop a few, subbing them with SL books. Then you have the best of both. If however you need/want "history," you should go SL. Omnibus is GB with history thrown in, not the reverse.

 

BTW, do you know there's an Omnibus self-paced online class coming out? I'm assuming it's going to be at least as good as the elementary sequence has been.

 

2nd btw, have you seen the large samples of Omnibus on google books? Might help you decide.

 

And for the record, I own O1 and O2 and decided to use neither at that time. My dd wants history + GB books, not GB + history. And really she likes a mix of GB + gb (good books). So right now we're doing the BJU World history plus our own thing. Just really depends on your kid. But if you're drawn to Omnibus and want to do it, I doubt anything else will satisfy you. :)

[lamolina]

Hmm, I like the way you compared them. I think my son would really prefer history + GB. Maybe in a couple years we can do GB + history! I want to do Omnibus but only because I don't know how to schedule, discuss, write about those books on my own. Apparently I had a seriously lacking public school education and remember reading very little of anything great or even good.

 

If we went with SL, do you have any suggestions for which GB to add? I am thinking Odyssey and Iliad?

 

I did hear about the self paced coming out and think it sounds very interesting! Maybe I will wait until that comes out to decide.

[G5052]

If you defer Omnibus until later, do you still start with the 1st one?

 

And while using SL do you still add in some of the "great books"? I think that is what i like about Omnibus is that it helps me know how to do the Great Books while I like SL because the reading looks more interesting. But I am afraid with SL that we will just miss a lot of the classics which are replaced with historical fiction.

 

Thoughts on that?

 

I have a high school student using Omnibus I, and it is worth high school credit if you do the whole thing and go deep with the session material in the book. I'm going to add two more Shakespeare plays at the end because we've done very little drama. At first I wasn't sure, so I kept track of hours and the amount of work done, and it is fine IMHO. The rest of his schedule is also tough, so it has been a great way to keep on track without overwhelming. He will do Omni 2 next year.

 

Last year he had American literature through a local group, and had a mixture of historical fiction and classics, but it really wasn't a "Great Books" study from my perspective. So Omnibus was a step up, but it hasn't been unreasonable. He's read some books that I read in high school at a school that did parts of the Great Books program, and also some that I read in college in the honors program.

 

My next one is doing local classes for 7th and 8th, and then will go to Omnibus I for 9th grade. At least that's the plan!

[LindaOz]

 

And while using SL do you still add in some of the "great books"? I think that is what i like about Omnibus is that it helps me know how to do the Great Books while I like SL because the reading looks more interesting. But I am afraid with SL that we will just miss a lot of the classics which are replaced with historical fiction.

 

Thoughts on that?

 

I think that it would be easy to add GB if you wanted to. You could use the lists in WTM corresponding to the time period you are covering with SL and the stage your child is at. Then you could make them part of required reading time along with SL books. My kids have sometimes sought some of these books out for themselves but you certainly could add what you wanted.

[PeterPan]

Yes, that's always a bummer to decide stuff now when you know new stuff is coming out in a month or two. I guess move on and plan your science and come back to history later. Science planning can consume a lot of time and brainpower if you let it. I'm sucked into it right now, lol. :)

[Shawna in North CA]

My 7th grade son is doing Omni 1 Primary this year, and is really enjoying it. However, he is taking it through the Scholars Academy online. Speaking only for myself, I would have a very hard time, and so would ds, doing Omnibus without the support adn guidance of a teacher. In my opinion, the readings are really a lot for a 12 year old to tackle on their own, without a lot of support. My ds is an excellent reader, and still the amount of reading and content was rigorous. With his EXCELLENT teacher though, he's had a blast with the Omnibus readings.

 

If I were going to do 7th grade history/lit on my own, I would choose the Sonlight booklist. I love Sonlight, and yet have never really used their Instructors Guides....just their books. I don't find that I really need to follow their sequence. Its kind of obvious what order to put the book in, and I'm not sure it matters too much anyway. I just have my kids read what comes next. We talk about it. I may have them do a few writing assignments. I don't feel that read-and-respond comprehension questions are necessary for learning through literature.

 

Someone already mentioned the Omnibus Self-Paced course. Great idea. Only $200, adn could be a great hybrid solution between Omnibus all on your own and paying the $$ for the live course. If your son loves fun history literature though, consider grabbing a few titles from the Sonlight list for Ancient History to supplement the Omnibus books. A few high-interest, easy-to-read historical fiction books would be a nice addition.

 

And, if you do decide to do SL now and wait a year or two for Omnibus, you could certainly start Omni 1 as a 9th grader. Four years of Omnibus, even though it has 6 levels, will certainly give a highschooler PLENTY of good history, literature, theology and thinking skills!

[Cleopatra]

I think Omnibus II & III would be fine for a motivated 7th grader. I love the Sonlight books but I've heard that their questions don't go very deep. That said, because your ds is only in grade 7, that might not be an issue for you.

 

I use Omnibus but I make it work for me. I have a history spine, then I choose about 6 - 8 books per year from Omnibus that correspond to the period my dd is studying. For example, this year she is studying the Middle Ages: we use The Story of the Middle Ages Guerber/Miller for a spine (with the Dorothy Mills Middles Ages book as a supplement) then she is reading Beowulf, The Song of Roland, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, excerpts of The Canterbury Tales, etc. using Omnibus. Since she's in grade 8, I pick the easier books with the thought that when we scroll back again I can choose some of the harder ones. It's not going to get her a credit but we certainly have some wonderful conversations!

 

All the best with whatever you choose!

 

P.S. As Shawna said above, Omnibus I contains some difficult literature. I wouldn't use it with a grade 7 or probably even a grade 8.

[ktgrok]

Hmm, I like the way you compared them. I think my son would really prefer history + GB. Maybe in a couple years we can do GB + history! I want to do Omnibus but only because I don't know how to schedule, discuss, write about those books on my own. Apparently I had a seriously lacking public school education and remember reading very little of anything great or even good.

 

If we went with SL, do you have any suggestions for which GB to add? I am thinking Odyssey and Iliad?

 

I did hear about the self paced coming out and think it sounds very interesting! Maybe I will wait until that comes out to decide.

 

I just listend to SWB's talk on preparing for highschool, and she would save the Great Books until highscool. MIddle school is time to get better and faster at reading, by reading books at an easier reading level. Do Sonlight.

[lamolina]

Cleopatra- Are you saying to skip ahead and do II or III, because Omni I is harder? I never even thought of that, I guess i just assumed they got harder each year. Thanks for that insight.

 

What if my son doesn't need to get better or faster at reading!? Really, he reads faster than anyone I know and comprehends what he reads. But I do get that maybe pushing the Great Books at age 12 might not be the best idea.

 

I like the idea of using another spine and adding in some GB along with it. I just like the idea of somehow having it laid out for me because I am not well read, at least when it comes to the GB.

[Cleopatra]

Lamolina ~

 

You can certainly skip ahead and do II or III before Omnibus I. The level of questions are similar in all three of these books, but the level of the literature is more difficult in Level I. In Omnibus levels IV, V & VI the questions get more in depth (ie. rhetoric level), but they are useable with a younger child too with a little adjustment. Sometimes it's difficult to get out of the mindset that you have to do a complete program or you have to follow it exactly as it is laid out (I struggle with this all the time! :tongue_smilie: ). Don't be afraid to try to make the program work for you and to try to tailor it to your child's abilities. One example of this is, when I chose her list for the year, I picked a couple of GB to read in a children's format so her list wouldn't be too long but she would still have an idea of the story. Also when using Omnibus, we don't always do all the questions; I think I've had her write only one or two essays and I've let her go off on "rabbit trails" at times if her interest is caught by some detail. It's been fun!

 

My dd was a fast reader and her comprehension was good as well. The only area where you may run into problems is depth of understanding. Has your ds read any of the GB as books written for children? Reading children's versions gave my dd a good base to begin.

 

You can certainly try Omnibus and see how it goes. My dd is actually doing much better than I expected and has been able to tackle all the literature I've given her without a problem, however her writing program is using models from ancient writers and I think that has helped with her level of understanding. I also don't expect her to understand everything. SWB says in her Educating Yourselves lecture, that if you only understand 1/3 of the book, you are better off than when you started. I try to apply her adage to our studies: as long as my dd is enjoying it and is getting a greater understanding, I'm happy with that. Oh, and I don't think I've mentioned that together we read aloud each book so I can explain anything she may struggle with, although next year that will change and I may only read a couple with her.

 

Another option is to use the year to read some of the books yourself. I used this method before introducing the GB: I signed up on Goodreads ( http://www.goodreads.com/ ) and joined a few groups that were reading or had read the books I planned to read. Then as I was reading, I followed along with their discussions. It was a huge help!! Some of these groups have university professors as members, and it is like you are looking in on a university course. Classics and the Western Canon is an excellent group on Goodreads. You can also search on the book you are reading and it should show the groups who have read or are are reading the book. As a teacher, you certainly feel much more comfortable teaching a book that you have already read.

 

If you need any suggestions for GB written for children, let me know. I have quite a few that I found helpful.

 

Best wishes for whichever route you take, Lamolina!

[PeterPan]

Didn't know about that GoodReads. Thanks for sharing! :)

[lamolina]

Cleopatra- THANKS a million for all your help. I like so many of your ideas. You are right on that I forget I don't have to use a complete program just as written. I just assume we will do Omnibus or SL or whatever, not really thinking that I could mix and match. This is our first year of homeschooling and it gets a bit overwhelming.

 

Also, I would love any of your suggestions for GB written more for children.

 

Thanks all for your input and help everyone!

[Cleopatra]

Okay, Lamolina, you asked for it ...... ;)

 

1. There are tons of books by Alfred J. Church that either are historical literature or re-writes of the GB. I've purchased most of mine from Amazon but I think you should be able to find them as free downloads. Some of his titles are: The Iliad for Boys and Girls, The Odyssey for Boys and Girls, The Aeneid for Boys and Girls, Stories from Livy, Stories of Charlemagne, Stories from English History Volumes I, II, III, etc. http://www.amazon.co...t=relevancerank

 

2. Eva March Tappan has written a number of historical books as well. Some of the titles I have: The Chaucer Story Book, In the Days of Queen Victoria http://www.amazon.co...rch tappan dodo

 

3. Olivia Coolidge - Caesar's Gallic War, the Trojan War, Greek Myths, Lives of the Famous Romans, etc. http://www.amazon.co...olivia coolidge

 

4. Yesterday's Classics have a number books which correspond to good literature: Stories of Roland, Stories of Beowulf, The Children's Plutarch, Our Young Folks Plutarch, Plutarch's Lives for Boys and Girls, Stories from Plato, etc. http://www.yesterday...p?catalog=world

 

5. Roger Lancelyn Green http://www.amazon.co...t=relevancerank

 

6. Rosemary Sutcliff: Black Ships Before Troy, The Wanderings of Odysseus, Beowulf Dragon Slayer, Tristan and Iseult, etc. http://www.amazon.co...&qid=1360473789

 

7. Herodotus for Boys and Girls - John S. Whyte http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0966706706

 

8. Padraic Colum .... another excellent author The Children's Homer (be careful because they package this under different titles and you could end up buying it twice ...... like me!) http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0966706706

 

9. For Shakespeare there is: Marcia Williams (usually I dislike comics but these are wonderfully done) http://www.amazon.co...ams shakespeare,

Tales from Shakespeare by Charles and Mary Lamb (a classic!!) http://www.amazon.co...s and mary lamb,

Beautiful Tales from Shakespeare by E. Nesbit http://www.amazon.co...t shakespeare��

and Leon Garfield's two volumes http://www.amazon.co...eld shakespeare

For the actual plays I like the No Fear Shakespeare editions (cheap, with Elizabethan English on one side and modern English on the other) or the Royal Shakespeare Company (RSC) editions that clearly summarize each act for greater understanding.

 

10. Believe it or not, Mary Pope Osborne has re-written The Odyssey and it is a very good introduction for younger children (my dd still reads hers). It's a six book series. http://www.amazon.co... odyssey series

 

 

Have I completely boggled your mind? Let's hope not! I hope your ds has a wonderful year delving into the GB

 

~~~ You're welcome, OhElizabeth. If you sign up on Goodreads and want a friend, let me know (and you, too, Lamolina) There is a Well Trained Mind group (set up for the 52 Books in 52 Weeks) and I have one WTM friend on there but I'm always looking for more. You get to see what each other is reading and pick up very good book suggestions too. In any case, let me know if you're interested.

[Mom0012]

My son has been enjoying Core G for 7th grade. I haven't looked at Omnibus, so I can't comment there.

[lovemykids]

I think that it would be easy to add GB if you wanted to. You could use the lists in WTM corresponding to the time period you are covering with SL and the stage your child is at. Then you could make them part of required reading time along with SL books. My kids have sometimes sought some of these books out for themselves but you certainly could add what you wanted.

 

SL!

 

This is what we do when we use SL...even if it's only two to three GBs a year. I do not think middle school is too young to start the GBs...but it may depend on your child.

[fluffybunny]

I haven't seen SL at this level, but we are doing Omnibus I "lite", choosing chapters, doing the questions verbally (omitting some questions I would deem a little 'over the top' or difficult), and we have been using mostly children's or PG versions of the books. I know we're supposed to avoid 'twaddle' and go for the real thing, but my ds has ADHD and would not get through 800 pages of Herodotus ramblings. So far he really enjoys it, and when he gets older he will have at least the basics of the Great Books in his learning. One more reason I choose the children's versions is that I can't stand the descriptions of violence in the real ones!

 

We 'will' be doing The Apology in full, though, as I think it's such an amazing and essential book. The Aenid I have a children's version ready, plus 50 pages of the CS Lewis translation.

[lamolina]

Thanks fluffy, this is what I am leaning towards. I think Omnibus lite will be a great introduction for my son (and myself!).

[Tkaiyala]

We are doing Omnibus throughout the Scholars Academy and have been very pleased with both the level of work and the teaching. This was a huge year for our older kids, they transitioned very well to a higher level of work and engagement. The teachers too have been very good through the academy. Interested to hear about the self-paced course too.

[Guest Cacao]

 

I haven't seen SL at this level, but we are doing Omnibus I "lite", choosing chapters, doing the questions verbally (omitting some questions I would deem a little 'over the top' or difficult), and we have been using mostly children's or PG versions of the books. I know we're supposed to avoid 'twaddle' and go for the real thing, but my ds has ADHD and would not get through 800 pages of Herodotus ramblings. So far he really enjoys it, and when he gets older he will have at least the basics of the Great Books in his learning. One more reason I choose the children's versions is that I can't stand the descriptions of violence in the real ones!

 

We 'will' be doing The Apology in full, though, as I think it's such an amazing and essential book. The Aenid I have a children's version ready, plus 50

pages of the CS Lewis translation.[/quote ]

 

I'm thinking of using Omnibus I for my 7th grade dd and I'm wondering what are the titles and authors the children's versions are you using?

[fluffybunny]

Virgil: This is a good children's version: http://www.amazon.com/In-Search-Homeland-Story-Aeneid/dp/0385729375/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379724310&sr=8-1&keywords=penelope+lively+aeneid  after reading that I read aloud to him the CS Lewis version of The Aeneid. This video is fun: http://education-portal.com/academy/lesson/the-aeneid-by-virgil.html

 

Oedipus: We got a book out from the library that told that story, but I can't remember which one it was: it was a collection of Greek myths and stories for children. My son is also a big reader of Rick Riordan, so all of these stories are familiar to him already.

 

The Oresteia: another library book, also forgotten! There's a hilarious version in one of the Horrible History books; Groovy Greeks and Rotten Romans. This youtube video also tells the story quite well, and is engaging for this age group:

 

For Herodotus we used this: http://www.amazon.com/Herodotus-Road-History-Jeanne-Bendick/dp/1932350209/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1379722960&sr=1-1&keywords=herodotus+children

Plus a few stories gleaned from around the internet.

 

The Odyssey: http://www.amazon.com/Tales-From-Odyssey-CD-Collection/dp/0061254576/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1379723089&sr=1-4&keywords=the+odyssey+cd+-adventures

 

I read Galatians to him from The Message translation. The other books of the bible we are covering with The Bible and its Influence: http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Influence-Student-Literacy-Project/dp/0977030202/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379724477&sr=8-1&keywords=the+bible+and+its+influence

 

Narnia: we have the entire audio collection, which he has listened to countless times: http://www.amazon.com/Lion-Witch-Wardrobe-Radio-Theatre/dp/1561797006/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379723718&sr=8-1&keywords=narnia+audiobooks+bbc

 

Plutarch: we read some children's versions of 4 of Plutarch's lives, found at AO.

 

This is what we are doing next:

 

Julius Caesar: http://www.amazon.com/Julius-Caesar-Shakespeare-Stories-William/dp/1408305062/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1379723260&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=julius+caesar+andrew+mathews followed by a reading of the real play, which we will take turns reading aloud.

 

Socrates: I'm going to read Meno first, as that is fun and easy: we will do it like a play, where he will read Meno's part. There is an engaging short video of Socrates at Education Portal, http://education-portal.com/ which is funny. Then he will watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bVBpLjh13E  Then we will take turns reading the original The Apology. Once that is digested and discussed with Omnibus, there is a funny version of Socrates by Steve Martin on youtube.

 

The 12 Caesars and Early History of Rome: I will just read aloud the Omnibus discussion.

 

Some of the other books are way too advanced for 7th grade kids, ie The Best Things in Life: you need a few more years life experience to understand what this book is talking about. I've read this book and would say it's more suited to kids over 15 and who have some solid knowledge of logic first.

[Julie of KY]

Another vote for Sonlight + any great books added in as extra.