Will martial arts help?

[violamama]

My 6 yob could use some maturing.

 

He is not that into gymnastics. He tends to act like a nut whilst waiting his turn, and generally has had a harder time controlling himself in this class than anywhere else. It's finishing the term next week and I'm going to pull him out after that. FWIW he has done well with swimming, but that took a while to click at first, too.

 

People I've asked IRL have been recommending Martial Arts to me to help this boy learn better executive function, how to show respect for teachers/adults/other human beings, and self control. Some of them liked the male role models the school supplied, though my boy has a rockstar dad & local grandpa already.

 

Anybody out there had this experience with these kinds of sports? This boy is not particularly physical or rough, but he was impressed with some videos on a local recommended gym's website. I guess my main concern is that it will teach him that hitting stuff is cool and being rough is fun. It's a well-respected school and they claim to focus on "good attitude, respect, confidence, focus, patience, self-control, and courtesy".

 

Have you guys seen martial arts in action? Is it better than other sports at helping boys this age stop being spazzes?

[CalicoKat]

Yup, my 5 year old had trouble focusing, waiting, going in a straight line etc. Still does, but it's better.

 

Her martial arts instructor has her pick out two plastic round "spots" when we check dd in for class.

 

She gets to put one "spot" on either side of the mat. When they do activities part of her extra work is to "slap her spot!" She very good at finding her spot and slapping it.

 

I have noticed that they tried this with another young fellow and it didn't work. He's not there any more.

 

I was glad it did work for dd, at least in Karate class. :laugh:

[PeterPan]

I'm sorry to be hyper-literal (since it may not be what you meant), but you're using a lot of code words for adhd. Executive function is a portion of the brain, and yes you can work on it. Linguisystems sells an Executive Function Training Workbook that is exceptionally good. The behavioral thing you're describing is called impulsivity, not spazzes. Impulsivity is a bit harder to change, sigh. And yes, if the EF is behind and there's impulsivity, he will come across as immature.

 

The martial arts will burn off some energy and be good overall, but it's not actually working on EF. To work on EF, you have to do things that kick in the EF portion of the brain (digit spans, metronome, biofeedback--which actually is the level 1 AAP therapy right now), etc.

[higginszoo]

It might work. You'll need to be careful when selecting the academy and instructor(s) to make sure that they'll be a good fit for your child. There are definitely ones out there who can nudge children firmly but gently toward more focus by using the inherent structure in martial arts. In our school, we have two instructors who are very good at this. Unfortunately, our homeschool class is being taught right now by a third instructor ... who IS a great instructor -- he's my main instructor, and as an adult black belt (and even as I was working my way up), he pushes me, but he really has to dig for the patience to work with small children, especially distractable, high energy ones like my youngest dd. Most schools will give you a trial lesson (or several) -- I'd take them up on that and probably visit at least two or three schools to find one that is a good fit for your son. The structure of martial arts has been great for my dd (almost 8, she started when she was 4), and I've seen it really help other children in the academy, as well as a few young adults who seemed to be drifting and distracted until they started martial arts training.

[higginszoo]

Double Post

[tampamommy]

I would agree with the others who said it depends on the instructor. Some instructors know and relate to children better than adults; some relate to adults better than children; some can relate equally well to both children and adults.

 

As you look around at your options, I would suggest looking for an instructor who is patient and realizes that children need to be shown how to properly do things over and over and over again. In class, the instructor should make it clear that disrespectfulness of any kind, to any person, is not appropriate, nor allowed.

 

A good children's martial arts class should be packed full of creative, high energy activities that burn lots of energy. It should be fun! The children should leave class tired. I have seen some schools where the children are just sitting and punching in place. Or doing lots of static stretching. Or learning to yell "yes, sir" and "yes, ma'am" 50x in 10 minutes (not kidding). From my perspective as a taekwondo instructor, that is not an appropriate structure for a children's class, and is not worth the parent's money.

 

Regarding your concern that your ds will learn that hitting is cool and being rough is fun...a good martial arts instructor will emphasize, in a variety of ways, that the goal of any martial art is self-defense, and that those skills should never be used to start a fight. Most schools will strip you of your belt and dismiss you if you ever use those skills to start a fight in public.

 

In learning self-defense, it is important to learn how it feels to really hit and kick something. If you don't, you won't be prepared in a real life situation. Yes, hitting and kicking shields, paddles, and partners in sparring gear can be fun...and cool. But those skills are used for training, in the dojong. A good instructor will make sure everyone understands how to stay safe training in the dojong, and that those skills don't get used on the park playground. :)

 

Have fun looking around!

[violamama]

I'm sorry to be hyper-literal (since it may not be what you meant), but you're using a lot of code words for adhd. Executive function is a portion of the brain, and yes you can work on it. Linguisystems sells an Executive Function Training Workbook that is exceptionally good. The behavioral thing you're describing is called impulsivity, not spazzes. Impulsivity is a bit harder to change, sigh. And yes, if the EF is behind and there's impulsivity, he will come across as immature.

 

 

I think I may be using code words unintentionally and in a hackneyed manner. I got most of my limited information on "executive function" from Nurture Shock which I read ages ago and I believe I've gotten it wrong anyway.

 

Having googled it and looked briefly at a couple of the sites I found, I think you're exactly right and I am talking about impulsivity. Specifically, he is weak only in the executive function areas of inhibition (being able to "knock it off") and self-monitoring (determining what's expected and monitoring his own behavior against that standard). None of the other descriptions fit. He's just a "young six", and it manifests only in certain situations. I'm looking for something that will stretch him in that and it will need to be something he enjoys and chooses. Enter some kind suggestions, the Kung Fu Panda & Lego Ninja obsession of 2010-12 and you have martial arts.

 

I will check out that book you mentioned. I just got 123 magic & "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen" from the library, and when I finish them I'll see about getting that. We also just got some workbooks on creativity exercises (to give him an appropriate outlet) on the recommendation of another member.

 

Thanks!

[dirty ethel rackham]

I'm sorry to be hyper-literal (since it may not be what you meant), but you're using a lot of code words for adhd. Executive function is a portion of the brain, and yes you can work on it. Linguisystems sells an Executive Function Training Workbook that is exceptionally good. The behavioral thing you're describing is called impulsivity, not spazzes. Impulsivity is a bit harder to change, sigh. And yes, if the EF is behind and there's impulsivity, he will come across as immature.

 

The martial arts will burn off some energy and be good overall, but it's not actually working on EF. To work on EF, you have to do things that kick in the EF portion of the brain (digit spans, metronome, biofeedback--which actually is the level 1 AAP therapy right now), etc.

 

 

Oh, for crying out loud. He's six. 6yo boys are generally high energy, have trouble focusing and have impulse control issues. Nothing here sounds like out of normal for that age. That said, my now 16yos had issues with executive function (not impulse control) and martial arts was excellent for him. The cross-patterned movement and the repetetive sequence of learning katas were very helpful tools in the arsenal to improve executive function.

 

Like others have said, it depends on the martial arts school. Good ones will have children's classes that have a balance of fun and discipline. A good martial arts school will also emphasize the appropriate times to use martial arts. My boys' karate dojo always recites "never fight to achieve selfish ends, but only might for right!" as part of their school creed. They talk about what that means.

[lulubelle]

My oldest has been doing karate for close to five years now. It has been a long road. He has many different issues, ranging from characteristics of ADHD, coordination disorder, Asperger's and sensory processing. I would say that karate and piano have given him the most confidence.

 

It has taken him a long time to become good at it. There were times I wanted to have him stop because it was frustrating for him and he was one of the worst kids with focus issues. But, I am very glad we stuck with it and he is about a year away from his junior black belt. It has been worth every penny for the skill and confidence he has gained.

[hillfarm]

It might be beneficial for you to go and observe a couple of classes without your child prior to signing him up. Most schools should have good role models - both instructors and more advanced students - and a "culture" of respect, focusing, following instructions, controlling one's tongue, etc. If your ds is at the level where he just needs to practice and develop these skills, I think it might be a great choice for him. However, if he doesn't have the capacity to do those things, then I fear that it could be extremely frustrating for him to be in an environment where there is lots of peer pressure to do that which he is unable to do.

 

My dd and I both take martial arts classes and in our school, the emphasis is definitely on learning situational awareness and avoiding as many fights as you can. However, we do also learn that hitting "stuff" is cool! :coolgleamA: (I love to whack the stuffings out of our training equipment!) Hitting people, however, is very serious and whole different matter. Regarding being rough, I guess it depends on your definition of roughness. My dd (who started MA when she was 11) has been known to sit polishing her nails while watching an MMA fight on television, alternating comments like, "I love how this lace pattern looks", and "Throw the elbow or he's going to choke you out!". One of the things that we do learn though, is a great deal of physical control and how to not hurt our training partners, so in that respect, we are learning how to be rough and not rough at the same time, KWIM?

 

I do think young boys sometimes have a tendency to pick up quite a bit of swagger if they train in martial arts, which they don't dare reveal at the dojo, but which they strut around family and friends. If you don't want that, you will have to be sure to keep reminding your ds that his instructor/sensei would not approve and to help him remain humble and mindful of all that he does not know (instead of what little bit he does). However, I don't think this is exclusive to MA - I have seen boys get this way over everything from swimming class to bowling league! :laugh:

[lgliser]

Karate has been great for my son. He started just before he turned 5 and now has just turned 6. I agree that a good instructor is KEY. Ours is wonderful and my son has a deep respect for him. One time my son was going through a hitting his sisters phase at home. So we talked to his instructor who had a big talk with my son and said that he takes peoples' belts away for things like this. The hitting stopped instantly.

So it's not all just being rough, hitting, kicking. They learn discipline and respect.

[Petrichor]

Karate has been great for my son. He started just before he turned 5 and now has just turned 6. I agree that a good instructor is KEY. Ours is wonderful and my son has a deep respect for him. One time my son was going through a hitting his sisters phase at home. So we talked to his instructor who had a big talk with my son and said that he takes peoples' belts away for things like this. The hitting stopped instantly.

So it's not all just being rough, hitting, kicking. They learn discipline and respect.

:iagree:

[violamama]

However, I don't think this is exclusive to MA - I have seen boys get this way over everything from swimming class to bowling league! :laugh:

 

Totally! My boy can swagger over the imaginary; he has a race of aliens he's invented and will tell you all about them with a superior air. Kids crack me up.

[dbmamaz]

my experience - and yes every school is different. I found this school when my middle son was 6 and got suspended from the aftercare run by the Y. I was a single mom working full time and decided to check out a martial arts aftercare which did pickup at the school. My son still got in trouble a lot. they handled him respectfully, but he often had his belt taken away for not listening, and was 2 belt levels behind his sister by the time we quit.

 

We came back when that son was 14 and my youngest was 7 and they were starting their homeschool class. My youngest had been awful in gymnastics, too - he had even taken a brief martial arts class at a preschool gymnastics place where he was constantly in trouble for running around.

 

Now this was a family class, so i was on the mat, too, but my younger one was constantly driving me nuts (the older one less so - he was, by now, on three meds and doing pretty well aside from being clumsy) The teachers kept telling me not to worry, that this was my time off and they would deal with my younger one.

 

The younger one sometimes would be rolling around on the floor while waiting his turn - but they were ok with that. He did need a LOT of redirection the first year, but by the end of the second year, he almost never did. This year he is 9, and he told me that he did better than some other kids when he was doing the choir at church because he's learned how to sit still from martial arts.

 

My teen has stopped walking in to walls. It really seems to be in response to martial arts that he no longer says "Oww, my foot" all day long.

 

Now, this school has been recommended by local autism groups - the master of this location is an amazing person who just has incredible patience and that sense for when kids need support, when they need some slack, when they need a little teasing, and when they need a bit more pushing. The main other instructor who has been working with the kids is just the nicest person. We have been nothing but thrilled - the only problem is, as we get higher up in the belts, my very non-athletic kids get more resistance to the program. and i had to drop out when i destroyed my knee.

 

good luck with your challenging kid!

[azucena]

Ds 7 and 6 do tae kwon do at a local studio, where the motto is "Focus and respect." While there is discussion of the origins of martial arts, there is much more emphasis on proper form and mindset and the need to use the skills for self-defense only. The instructors are excellent role models, and we plan to continue the boys' studies as long as they are interested.

[KarenNC]

You may also consider the particular form of martial art, especially if you are concerned he will have difficulty controlling kicking and hitting outside of class. My husband and daughter take aikido, which is composed of grappling and throws (more like judo), no sparring/punching/kicking/etc. Instead of tournaments, they have seminars. It fits our philosophy quite well.

 

I do sympathize. We had to pull my daughter out of ballet when she was young because of this kind of thing, but finding a better fit of activity and instructor (for instance, one who was consistent) really helped.

[HS Mom in NC]

Is martial arts generally helpful in teaching respect and focus for most children? Yes. Does that mean every child struggling with such things belongs in martial arts classes? Absolutely not. Can very young (3-7 years old) children begin martial arts and thrive? Yes. Does that mean every young child is a good candidate for martial arts? Absolutely not. Mine sure wasn't until age 6. Others aren't ready until older than that.

 

There are other ways to teach discipline and self control in a less high pressure environment like a paid, structured class. Since your child is only 6 it may not be a maturity issue at all. He may just need a lot more very physical play most of the day. He may need to be outside, riding his bike, digging holes several feet deep and wide, running and wrestling and climbing with boys in his age range all afternoon and into the evening. He may need lots of physical exercise (jumping jacks, push ups, lunges, sprints, sit ups) every day before school-most military schools do this for a reason with their all male students.

 

Remember that our society is odd compared to others throughout history and world wide in that we expect all children that young to be doing structured things at that age. Most of those societies need children and adults physically working all day to support themselves with farming or a trade so God made kids with lots of physical energy. Odds are your child is a perfectly normal little boy. When he's a little older he'll be ready for other things.

 

Some children need to start structured activities (disciplined sports/martial arts, reading, seat work, handwriting, full day academics, standing in lines, eating in a restaurant for long social meals, etc.) much later than other children. Based on what you described, it's possible your child is one of those kids. It's analogous to a parent saying, "My kid is struggling with crawling-is there a running class I can sign him up for to catch him up?"

 

It all depends on the master and the school. My youngest (7) started Tae Kwon Do last January. Her dojong (Korean martial arts school) is run by a S. Korean immigrant and his American born wife. It's structured like most traditional Asian schools and most very serious martial arts schools. If a child is not already able to follow basic directions and control his/her body most of the time when the child enrolls, then that child is being set up for failure by enrolling him/her in our school.

 

I sat in awe of a set of parents the first three months of my daughter's white belt training. Their child seemed to be mildly autistic or maybe Asperger's and they expected him to participate in a 45 minute class where the teacher gave instructions while the kids were expected to stand at attention with their eyes on the master, the master demonstrated one time, and the 20+ kids had to immediately copy and continue with the master and his wife making corrections with individuals while everyone continued independently. What were they thinking? It wasn't the kid's fault he wasn't ready but he couldn't follow directions. Instead he sat in the corner or laid on the mat distracting the other kids from what their parents were paying good money for-martial arts instruction. We're investing big bucks and committing to 3 days a week of classes to master a marital art. While focus and discipline are nice by-products of martial arts training, the primary focus is mastering martial arts. If that's not your goal, be very careful to make that very clear to the instructors as you shop around for martial arts schools.

 

My middle daughter's (15) archery class is like that-if you're not there to learn archery you don't belong there. They aren't there to entertain you, teach you discipline, etc. They assume you have enough to follow directions and not distract people. (If you don't you'll join the ranks of the kids who were kicked out.)

 

The child I mentioned at the dojong was eventually kicked out because he was so uncooperative. The master's wife (an instructor) would have to remove the child to a side room and work with him individually the whole time. That's not fair to everyone else in the room. It reduced the amount of instruction everyone else got. In an Asian school everything is secondary to learning. If you interfere with learning you must be immediately removed so no one else suffers. That's a common approach to some martial arts schools. If it doesn't work for your situation, choose one with a different philosophy. Not every school is for every kid. His parents weren't fair to that kid either. Just observing one class should have been obvious to his parents that this might be something their son could do in the future but at that time he needed to start smaller. Success builds on itself and he needed to take smaller bites of less intensive activities until he had been doing them successfully for a while and then slowly increase to more intensive ones.

[dirty ethel rackham]

 

 

It all depends on the master and the school. My youngest (7) started Tae Kwon Do last January. Her dojong (Korean martial arts school) is run by a S. Korean immigrant and his American born wife. It's structured like most traditional Asian schools and most very serious martial arts schools. If a child is not already able to follow basic directions and control his/her body most of the time when the child enrolls, then that child is being set up for failure by enrolling him/her in our school.

 

I sat in awe of a set of parents the first three months of my daughter's white belt training. Their child seemed to be mildly autistic or maybe Asperger's and they expected him to participate in a 45 minute class where the teacher gave instructions while the kids were expected to stand at attention with their eyes on the master, the master demonstrated one time, and the 20+ kids had to immediately copy and continue with the master and his wife making corrections with individuals while everyone continued independently. What were they thinking? It wasn't the kid's fault he wasn't ready but he couldn't follow directions. Instead he sat in the corner or laid on the mat distracting the other kids from what their parents were paying good money for-martial arts instruction. We're investing big bucks and committing to 3 days a week of classes to master a marital art. While focus and discipline are nice by-products of martial arts training, the primary focus is mastering martial arts. If that's not your goal, be very careful to make that very clear to the instructors as you shop around for martial arts schools.

 

 

 

I agree that parents need to shop around for the right school. The class you describe would not be a good fit for a very young child. Many 7 and 8 yo kids would not be developmentally ready for a class like that. At my boys' dojo, these types of classes are for the older kids. However, the classes for younger kids are run with the needs of little bodies and brains in mind. They have lots of games in addition to skill drill. They know that inattentiveness is part of the nature of little kids so they structure the classes accordingly. The teachers they select are very good with younger bundles of energy. Not every kid is ready to graduate from these "kid friendly" classes to the serious study of martial arts that comes later. My boys were never asked to teach the little kids because the owner knew that my boys did not have the right temperament to teach littles. They were often asked to teach the more serious classes.

Even though the older classes were very serious in their study of martial arts, the owner was aware of the benefit to special needs kids. He often was able to incorporate some special needs kids into the older classes with some support with higher belt students. It was a win-win. Serious study for those who were serious about martial arts, plus the important brain stimulation for kids with special needs. My oldest son was so inspired by the work of one boy with Aspergers that he did a paper on the benefit of martial arts for these kids.

[HS Mom in NC]

I agree that parents need to shop around for the right school. The class you describe would not be a good fit for a very young child. Many 7 and 8 yo kids would not be developmentally ready for a class like that. At my boys' dojo, these types of classes are for the older kids. However, the classes for younger kids are run with the needs of little bodies and brains in mind. They have lots of games in addition to skill drill. They know that inattentiveness is part of the nature of little kids so they structure the classes accordingly. The teachers they select are very good with younger bundles of energy. Not every kid is ready to graduate from these "kid friendly" classes to the serious study of martial arts that comes later. My boys were never asked to teach the little kids because the owner knew that my boys did not have the right temperament to teach littles. They were often asked to teach the more serious classes.

Even though the older classes were very serious in their study of martial arts, the owner was aware of the benefit to special needs kids. He often was able to incorporate some special needs kids into the older classes with some support with higher belt students. It was a win-win. Serious study for those who were serious about martial arts, plus the important brain stimulation for kids with special needs. My oldest son was so inspired by the work of one boy with Aspergers that he did a paper on the benefit of martial arts for these kids.

 

 

The classes I describe begin for children ages 3-4. They're occasionally distracted or wiggly now and then, but they can do a lot more than most parents assume. Dozens of them are doing it every day.The children that are in them are doing very well being attentive and focused through out, but they're not for every child. You have to take into account cultural norms in these schools-ours is geared to Asian teaching standards and methods. Some children raised in the US by non-Asian parents can do them, but not all. Asian mothering in general puts a higher priority on teaching focus and conforming to social norms and the group as a whole in the preschool years where Western parenting is more along the lines of following the child's individual interests and catering to a child's individual needs. Neither is bad or wrong- they're just very different.

 

Special needs children are not typically mainstreamed in Asian schools, so most of those teachers are not used to teaching them. The vast majority of students at our dojong are the children of Asian immigrants. Most Caucasians aren't shopping for martial arts schools until their children are school aged, so you see very young Asian children in the white and yellow belt classes and older Caucasian in the white and yellow belt classes.

 

I think classes geared to special needs kids are a fantastic idea for teachers who know how to teach special needs kids. It's also a good idea to mix them in a class with children who are not special needs as long as everyone signing up for them understands what the pace and focus is, just like everyone signing up for the other classes understands what they're signing up for. Lots of choices are best for people so everyone gets what they want without being labeled as wrong or assuming it's not possible by people with different ideas.

[LG Gone Wild]

My 6 yob could use some maturing.

 

He is not that into gymnastics. He tends to act like a nut whilst waiting his turn, and generally has had a harder time controlling himself in this class than anywhere else. It's finishing the term next week and I'm going to pull him out after that. FWIW he has done well with swimming, but that took a while to click at first, too.

 

People I've asked IRL have been recommending Martial Arts to me to help this boy learn better executive function, how to show respect for teachers/adults/other human beings, and self control. Some of them liked the male role models the school supplied, though my boy has a rockstar dad & local grandpa already.

 

Anybody out there had this experience with these kinds of sports? This boy is not particularly physical or rough, but he was impressed with some videos on a local recommended gym's website. I guess my main concern is that it will teach him that hitting stuff is cool and being rough is fun. It's a well-respected school and they claim to focus on "good attitude, respect, confidence, focus, patience, self-control, and courtesy".

 

Have you guys seen martial arts in action? Is it better than other sports at helping boys this age stop being spazzes?

 

 

Yes, I have seen martial arts in action. No, I don't think there is anything special in MA, over other sports, that would help with spaz behavior. I don't really recommend starting MA in young kids to modify behavior. It can be useful for burning off energy. If you need to do that and want a combat sport, I suggest wrestling or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

[Katy]

Yes, depending on the school. Another activity that teaches self-awareness and self-control is horseback riding lessons. At first you get assigned a very gentle horse who just does what they've done for hundreds of lessons; but later when you have the fundamentals down you get on a horse that will demand you have the proper demeaner (calm, in control) or it will ignore you completely. The battle of wills teaches you a natural calm leadership that I think is difficult to learn anywhere but with martial arts or with horses.

[Sarah CB]

I'm sorry to be hyper-literal (since it may not be what you meant), but you're using a lot of code words for adhd. Executive function is a portion of the brain, and yes you can work on it. Linguisystems sells an Executive Function Training Workbook that is exceptionally good. The behavioral thing you're describing is called impulsivity, not spazzes. Impulsivity is a bit harder to change, sigh. And yes, if the EF is behind and there's impulsivity, he will come across as immature.

 

The martial arts will burn off some energy and be good overall, but it's not actually working on EF. To work on EF, you have to do things that kick in the EF portion of the brain (digit spans, metronome, biofeedback--which actually is the level 1 AAP therapy right now), etc.

 

I wonder if some of martial arts isn't also EF? Digit span is about remembering a number of random digits and repeating it back, right? In martial arts, students are required to memorize a set of stances in order and perform them back. The concentration and memory that this develops is huge. By the time kids get to their Black Belts they have tons of complicated patterns memorized.