I need help!! 11 YO DS

[fhjmom]

Okay, so please don't let this be a discussion of virtual academies. It is about work ethic and getting assignments done.

 

We began homeschooling when DS was in 3rd grade. Before that he attended a private Christian school. He says he likes homeschooling and does not want to return to a traditional school setting. He is a smart kid and has always had way above average reading/language skills, loves history, and is generally very easy going and tries to please. He hates math, but has actually done very well with his math this year (better than ever before). I have never had a problem teaching him concepts or the material; the problem is getting him to keep up the pace that I feel he should. He just... dawdles. He cannot finish anything in a timely manner (this includes *everything* in his life, not just school work). It drives me INSANE!

 

So, part of the solution was to put him on someone else's schedule because he found it too easy to disregard Mom's schedule. He did have consequences on my schedule such as loosing screen time or not going to friends' until work was done. It didn't matter to him, he would rather not do it. That is a big part of why we opted to try a virtual academy.

 

So, he wants to be more in charge of his own learning. So I let him, and he will do maybe one assignment a day. I offer to help, I look over his work, I help him get organized, and give him checklists so he knows what assignments need to be completed. I help him print what needs to be turned in at the beginning of the week so he knows his priorities. I ask him periodically how he is doing, if he needs help, if he understand the assignments, etc. He always says he doesn't need help. (BTW, as long as he is actually doing the work, he can read it and understand it on his own.) He typically would rather work through the lesson himself without my help, so I am available if needed but don't force it on him. When I ask, he says he has his assignments done and uploaded, yet when I check, they aren't done (and I do check periodically). He says he didn't know what he had to do, so I help him again reorganize, prioritize, etc. Each time we do this, he says he is clear on what he needs to do... and yet it still doesn't happen!

 

I am about to go crazy!! The only alternative I can see that works is to actually sit beside him the entire time he is supposed to be working and continually keep him on task. The thing is - I shouldn't have to! I have two other children to teach along with my own school work. He is developmentally capable of doing what I am asking, there is no learning disorder or other issue to keep him from doing this. It is solely lack of effort and organization. He just would rather be doing something else.

 

I have tried a reward thing. If he finishes all his work for the week, he gets to spend Friday afternoon with his best friend - if not, he sits in the back of my co-op classes and works.

 

I don't know what else to try. I don't know if this is just a vent or if I want advice, because I am not sure there is anything that will get him to change. It kind of scares me because my older brother was much the same way, and my mom tried everything with him. He still just does what he wants and lives on his own time table. He is now a rancher doing occasional odd jobs for others, but mainly living on his own in the country - not that that is a bad thing, just not necessarily the life I hope for my DS, if YKWIM.

 

Anyway... I will quit venting now. :tongue_smilie:

[basschick]

I'm interested as to what others will say.

Have you read any of Charlotte Mason's stuff about "training" children until the discipline becomes automatic for them?

I'm also very interested because I have a similar approach to life as your son -mostly because life just overwhelms me, and I feel the need to change.

[Whoareyou]

I have a 12 yr old DS. What works for him is doing a block schedule. He does 2 maybe 3 classes at a time. (sometimes only one class) He may spend 3-4 hrs a day on one class. But that course is finished in a month or so.

 

So instead of 'math' taking 8 months, it take 6-8 weeks. Then no more math. We then switch to Science for 6-8 weeks, ONLY science, once that class is done we pick something else. Next time he might do literature and computer programming for 8 weeks. Now its time for Math again.

 

Would some type of 'block' schedule work better for DS. Even if its not like mine. But maybe MWF/TH rotation or MW/TH/FS

 

Maybe the time of day isnt' work for him. My kiddo works best in the evening and night. His best time is from 7pm til midnight. If I was to try to enforce 'school' from 9am-3pm he would probably just sit there and stare into space. He also does great work on the weekends.

 

Just some ideas for you.

[Kirch]

Maybe a weekly list is too overwhelming for him to keep up with on his own. Could you try doing a daily list with a deadline & a rule that nothing else happens (playing, hobbies, outside events, etc) until it's checked by you? If he's not happy about it, tell him that's tough--this is how it'll be until he earns more independence by showing he can be responsible. Maybe once he's got the hang of getting one day's work done, you can try giving him two, then three, etc. 11 seems really young to be responsible for doing a week's worth of work pretty much on his own (without daily accountability from mom), even if that's what he says he wants. I think he's showing you pretty clearly that he's not ready for it.

[Elizabeth in MN]

We've been struggling with this for a while. I've also noticed that lots of other families here struggle with the exact same issue. My conclusion is that it's normal - some kids just aren't able to be self-starters at this age. They will be eventually, but this 10-13 year old groups just can't do it.

 

It's no help for you in your situation, and I am sorry for that. But you are WAY not alone.

[MomatHWTK]

We've been struggling with this for a while. I've also noticed that lots of other families here struggle with the exact same issue. My conclusion is that it's normal - some kids just aren't able to be self-starters at this age. They will be eventually, but this 10-13 year old groups just can't do it.

 

It's no help for you in your situation, and I am sorry for that. But you are WAY not alone.

:iagree:

[ccolopy]

My DS is almost 12 and I consider him to be a mature and motivated student for his age, but he would not be able to take a list of assignments for the week and have them completed on time. We do a daily list of assignments, with a marking of where he should be by lunch. I don't think you need to sit by his side the entire time he works, but setting him up with a morning's worth of work and checking that it's been completed before you break for lunch might be a good compromise.

[Jean in Newcastle]

When ds was 11, there was no way he could have kept on track with a weekly schedule or even an entire daily one. Assign him a subject - give him a deadline of one hour (which I'm assuming is generous) and check in with him. Put a timer next to him if necessary. If he is not able to do that much on his own, then yes, he does need to be seated right next to you. You can still teach your other kids. He can have headphone on and be plugged into his own lesson. Repeat with each assignment.

 

Eventually, ds was able to do a couple of subjects and then check in with me at lunch time. Then after lunch he did the rest and then checked in. He was not done for the day until he had finished the assignments for the day.

 

(Now at 15, he does do a weekly schedule but I still periodically check in to make sure he doesn't have any questions or problems.

[Catwoman]

Have you read any of Charlotte Mason's stuff about "training" children until the discipline becomes automatic for them?

 

I'm pretty sure Charlotte didn't have my kid. ;)

 

My conclusion is that it's normal - some kids just aren't able to be self-starters at this age. They will be eventually, but this 10-13 year old groups just can't do it.

 

:iagree:

 

I also think that some people will never be self-starters. They'll learn ways to get things done when they have no choice in the matter, but they may never be highly motivated, hard workers unless they are incredibly interested in a particular subject.

 

I wish I knew of a solution for you. :grouphug:

[Lily_Grace]

Age 11 and 12 were VERY hard years here. VERY. It came down to repeating the toddler years in a way:

 

-I made daily and project progress sheets. Daily *he* had to list exactly what he needed to do, when he expected to have it done, and then write in what time he finished. Every.single.day. Periodically through the day we'd reference the sheet and if he was behind I sat there with him. The project sheets were very similar but had date instead of time spots. I sat with him and had him write down the steps and when he expected to accomplish each by, and then I signed off the step when it was done. I assigned the end date, he assigned himself the step dates, but I was there to keep him on track whenever he fell off.

 

-we used timers, and reminders, and I had to stay on top of EVERYTHING. At 11, their brains seem to go out the window. By 13, it's started to come back.

 

-no working in areas where he wasn't fully visible. He could work at the dining room table, the desk in the living room, or on the floor. His room was off limits from 0800-1400. Seriously. And breaks were set with a timer.

 

 

Two years later and he's earned the privilege of doing his work by himself again. Mostly by himself. Projects still have step by step due dates and we constantly reconnect throughout the day for lesson instructions, but he has roaming privileges. If your son WANTS to do the work independently, but NEEDS you there, it's time to forgo his wants for his needs for a while.

[Night Elf]

My first thought is a mandatory meeting at the beginning of the week and the end, maybe Monday and Thursday. Have him show you what he will be working on during the week. That way you know he's seen it. If it's not mostly completed on Thursday, leaving only a regular amount for Friday, he has to work on Saturday to catch up.

 

Honestly, his age does suggest he should handle this, however, I don't think it's uncommon for kids, maybe even boys in particular, to reach a point where they just adopt a lackadaisical attitude. Maybe it has something to do with puberty, I' don't know.

 

You could start by having a meeting in the morning and afternoon each day. That would monitor him daily for a while, then move to the weekly meetings.

 

:grouphug: My youngest dd was like that. She's in public school this year but last year was just nuts. She didn't want my help with anything but did little work during the week and would then have a panic moment when on Friday all her boxes weren't checked. That meant weekend work, and she always stayed behind anyway. That was one reason she gave for starting high school this year. She felt it would hold her accountable. Well, it's certainly doing that!!!

 

Has he suffered any consequences from turning in late work or not being prepared for an assessment from the school itself?

[ktgrok]

Maybe a weekly list is too overwhelming for him to keep up with on his own. Could you try doing a daily list with a deadline & a rule that nothing else happens (playing, hobbies, outside events, etc) until it's checked by you? If he's not happy about it, tell him that's tough--this is how it'll be until he earns more independence by showing he can be responsible. Maybe once he's got the hang of getting one day's work done, you can try giving him two, then three, etc. 11 seems really young to be responsible for doing a week's worth of work pretty much on his own (without daily accountability from mom), even if that's what he says he wants. I think he's showing you pretty clearly that he's not ready for it.

 

:iagree:

[kroe1]

I have chosen the sit-there-with-her the entire time method for DD12 who has an attention problem. But I just have one kiddo left at home. I haven't found anything else that works yet. I've just resigned myself to this method because it works. I also use a timer, but more for me, rather than for her. We have to change subjects rapidly even with me sitting there. I do bring my own things to the table to do when I'm not actively engaged in teaching her.

 

:grouphug:

[TXMomof4]

I have an 11 yo and a 12 yo. Funny enough, it's the 11 yo who is the super-motivated, self-starter. She's up at 6:30 so she can get started on school and be done by noon.

 

DD12, not so much. We had a meltdown a few weeks ago because she had work to do for her VA and assured me she had done it and just hadn't. We had a big heart to heart (with only a little screaming and crying). She is easily distracted and honestly doesn't seem to realize how much time she's wasting. I let the kids listen to music while they're working and she was spending all her time choosing which music instead of working. We blocked every website on her computer except her school sites. I checked with her between lessons for my younger two and had to see adequate progress for that time frame or she had to sit with me and do the work on paper or work on something else til I could sit with her on the computer. She did NOTHING else til school work was done. Her big motivator is playing with her friends from PS and an afternoon of watching all of them play while she sat at the computer provided a lot of motivation. It only took about a week for her to realize that her life is a lot less fun when mom is monitoring every minute of it. We haven't had any problems in the last several weeks (knock on wood).

 

I think she just let it slide a little at a time until it was overwhelming to try it on her own. She's fully capable and smart as a whip - just needed a little motivation to stay on top of it. We also discussed that she'll be eligible to take CC classes in the spring of 2014 - that's really only a year away, but if she wants those classes, she has to do the prep now for them.

[MSNative]

You could be describing my son. What is starting to work with him is making a weekly calendar for when work is due. For example, all art and history must be done by Thursday, all science work must be finished by Friday, etc. This gives him a firm deadline so he doesn't get too far behind.

 

He also has a daily schedule. We make that each morning. I ask him for a status report on his subjects and we write down what still needs to be done. This is especially helpful for multi-step assignments like writing.

 

This is the toughest for me - checking and holding him accountable. I have started having him show me every bit of work. It has to be legible or it gets redone. He has to correct mistakes then. I also check in with him every 15-30 minutes to make sure he is on task. Yes, I know I should have been doing all this before. My older one didn't require this so I got lazy.

 

Lastly, I help him organize his notebook and desk twice a week. Slowly he is taking on more of this himself. It is aggravating but he is not a naturally organized fellow. This helped motivate him more than I expected.

[fhjmom]

Thanks for the ideas and commiseration! I should clarify that even though I do start the week with his assignments organzied by week, his check list is day-by-day. He actually prefers to have the whole week of check lists at the beginning of the week because I let him work in what ever order he wants, so he may do 3 days worth of grammar assignments in one day.

 

Also, I think his being a typical pre-teen is part of the problem, but this is also part of his personality. He has always been this way to a degree. I guess it also make sit worse that I am a procrastinator, but my tendency is to dive in and finish in a flurry of activity just under the deadline. He just gets overwhelmed and doesn't do it, give up. :(

 

For the poster that asked about consequences from the school, I am expecting a very bad report card this six weeks because of zeros. I don't know if that will affect his attitude or not. We will see, I guess.

 

I am hoping to start this week with a clean slate and try something new. Looking back over this thread will help!

[fhjmom]

Oh, and part of what is driving me so crazy!?! Even though he has a milk crate for all his books, and a back pack for his books if he decided to take lessons with us, and he has a binder for his check lists and work in progress, and a mother binder for his completed assignments after they have been scanned and turned in... He can't keep up with anything!!! He spends so much time looking for books or papers or a penc that he just had! I have no idea how it is humanly possible to be so unorganized when the toe are at your fingertips!

 

(I think I am going to require him to sit at his desk all day until he can stay organized. I hate the thought of that, but it might help with his stuff getting strewn all over the house.)

[Barbara H]

11 is tough.

 

Just to come at this from another perspective. What is happening when he's not on track? Is he off in his room? Is he getting up from the table? Is he getting distracted online?

[fhjmom]

11 is tough.

 

Just to come at this from another perspective. What is happening when he's not on track? Is he off in his room? Is he getting up from the table? Is he getting distracted online?

 

Yes to all of the above, and then some. He will also stay in the bathroom .for.ever. I have blocked other sites on his computer. He will spend 30 minutes looking for a pencil, even though he just had one. He will doodle. He will retread the same passage over and over to avoid the writing. He will start one assignment then decide he would rather do sometuing else. He will just sit and stare into space. He will start talking to me about random stuff, not related to his lesson. He will interject his thoughts about whatever I am covering with my other DC. He will take it upon himself to supervise and correct other DC. (We have a tiny house, so really there is no way to separate him, and if I did put him somewhere else, then I couldn't keep an eye on him to get him back on task.) :p

[bobbeym]

:grouphug: I have no words of advice, but lots of hugs for you!

 

My DS is 14.5 and we have the same problems in our house. Schooling, chores, eating, whatever it is, he's slow at finishing. Daily, weekly, block, hourly - none of it works for school. The only thing that works is for either DH or myself to be sitting nearby overseeing his work and making sure he's not allowing himself to get distracted.

 

It sucks, and it gets frustrating b/c by now we should be past this but we're not. It's just part of who he is and how he's wired, and for us, being in ps for as long as he was only made it worse.

 

Right now we're on a 2-2-1-2 daily schedule. He spends 2 hours each on math and science, an hour for lunch and free time, and then 2 hours on his NaNo writing. IF all that is done, he has time to spend on his other lesser courses like spanish, music, and programming.

 

I have noticed that he does better working in the evenings and on weekends, but I'm not sure if that's because of himself or because I'm home and better skilled at keeping him on task.