I think our biggest problem is language :(

[amo_mea_filiis.]

And i do not mean cursing.

 

Dd went into ds's room to get an old pair of socks to make a doll for him. He said get out, and before he got all worked up, i yelled for dd to come to me. She didn't even have both feet in his room yet.

 

Had it ended right here, i would have talked to dd about staying out of ds's room. Of course it didn't. Ds comes right behind dd and hits her. I tell ds that hitting her was mean. He said "that's for going in my room."

 

Again i told ds it was mean and dd was not in his room. I said i took care of it.

 

This is where i think his language and/or processing problems get in our way.

 

After i said i took care of it, he says "yeah right." This makes no sense to the situation, and his constant use of yeah right gets me angry.

 

So i repeated "dd stepped in your room, i told her to get out. Now she's out. Problem solved!"

 

Again he says yeah right.

 

I said "she is not in your room, what is the problem?!"

 

He says... Yeah right.

 

We were standing in my room the whole time. Dd was standing behind me, obviously NOT in ds's room.

 

*I* had no right to get angry and yell at him. I was beyond annoyed that it didn't end when dd was not in there. I am working on my reactions, not the point of the post.

 

How do i help ds with the language part of everything? Very, very, VERY often, what he says makes absolutely no sense to the conversation or situation, or if it does, he can't really elaborate (dd drew a picture for a friend who was sick but could not give it to her that day. The following day i was going to their house and was going to drop off the picture. Ds said that he really hoped the friend was still sick. He didn't mean it like that. The picture said "get well soon" so ds wanted her to have the picture before she got better). Had he said this to anyone else, he'd be lectured for being so mean for hoping the child was still sick. I have seen this happen numerous times.

 

Talking to him is nearly pointless. He gets too worked up, doesn't understand, and still says the wrong things. I think this is why he curses; it always makes sense when one yells f*** or s***. It works when you're hurt, mad, upset, frustrated, or anything else.

 

What do i do? Where do i start? He has been in speech therapy for almost 6 years.

[Petrichor]

My DH does this. He isn't a native English speaker, and he can't see the difference between a word's dictionary meaning and a word's connotation. It drives me bonkers. :grouphug:

 

I've tried to explain it to him, but in the moment, he wants nothing to do with it. Later on, I can sometimes get him to understand that we have to be careful choosing our words because "yeah right" doesn't mean the same thing as "yeah, you're right."

[Chris in VA]

My Aspie has some problems this way. It's more inconvenient than anything, but it used to be worse. Instead of speech therapy, he had language therapy. Perhaps your speech therapist could change to this more? Are you just doing articulation?

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Thank you both.

 

Artic is the only thing not worked on in speech. I think she's currently working on memory and listening. Something i've noticed over the years is there is never any conversation during therapy. At most, he repeats a sentence or 2, but i'm not a speech pathologist.

 

I just dont know how to help him. :(

[amo_mea_filiis.]

If he gets frustrated and bored while talking, where can i begin? I dont know how much of a conversation he really even follows.

 

And if i sit here and think, he talks a lot, but not really. He says quite a bit, like maybe mumbling to himself, but he mostly makes noises. When he plays with other kids, the conversations are simple, "i'm a zombie, try and catch me." He gets most of his wants and needs across (i'm hungry, i want this toy) but i guess i dont see much language out of him, and he almost always cuts me or dd off while telling a story.

 

When i read to him, he'll cut me off and ask to back 4 pages to something, like whatever was there "clicked" all of a sudden.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I got a "good" one!

 

Dd had a little pain in her chest (NOT chest pains, just a little "ouch, what was that?" and it's gone type thing) and said, basically to herself: "ow, i feel like i got bit on my bOOk (she didnt say book)." And ds says "oh, well i maybe did it."

 

Neither of us did or said anything about his comment, obviously no reason to. But these little things are so often and common out of his mouth that it's just normal to us. It stands out the most when he's around a near-aged peer and the peer will look at him or has a confused "WTH" face.

 

As he gets older, his overall language processing seems more and more off, or delayed, or just plain odd.

[Catwoman]

 

*I* had no right to get angry and yell at him. I was beyond annoyed that it didn't end when dd was not in there. I am working on my reactions, not the point of the post.

 

 

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

 

I think I'm missing part of the story here, because I don't understand why you had no right to get angry with him. :confused:

 

He hit his sister without provocation, was not remorseful, and was disrespectful to you. I would have been angry, too.

 

"Yeah, right" sounds both disrespectful and sarcastic to me. Perhaps it's some sort of communication issue, but it sounds like it might also be a "you can't tell me what to do," issue as well. (I'm picturing him saying it with an attitude.)

[chiguirre]

You could try making up social stories to give him a bigger stock of phrases to use on the spur of the moment. This has worked really well for GW, but his bcba did tell me that they work much better for him than for other kids she's worked with. Still they're easy to make and worth a try.

[NotSoObvious]

If it makes you feel better, my dd is 10 and we still struggle with language issues. We are frequently saying, "I don't know what you are talking about. You need to give us more information." We'll be driving in the car and she'll say something like, "It's a big one," out of the blue, referring to something we talked about earlier in the day.

 

It's very frustrating, but it has gotten better. It really just takes time and a LOT of correction and prompting. I am NOT the nicest, most patient parent when it comes to this, I'll admit it, but if it were our house, I would respond with, "Yeah right is not an answer. You may answer with ______ or _____."

 

Feed him the language and make him practice, even if it's just canned responses. He'll get there.

 

I TOTALLY hear you about it being more obvious around peers. I cringe sometimes. It has gotten better and she is catching up, but she still needs patient friends.

 

Oh, and about the bOOks comment, I would have immediately said something about that being inappropriate, but explained why.

 

Have you ever read the book It's So Much Work to Be Your Friend? It was excellent and really helped me to see that it's *ok* that they make these blunders, but it's how we handle it that matters. He walks you through how to become a social coach for your kid without embarrassing them. It's wonderful.

 

Good luck. My dd still wasn't speaking in full sentences at 7, so hang in there!

[Momof3littles]

Has the speech therapist ever expressed concerns about a pragmatic speech/language delay? Your description sounds a bit like it could be consistent with that, but I'm not sure if that's something you've explored.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatic_language_impairment

http://www.asha.org/public/speech/development/pragmatics.htm

 

Do you think the "yeah right" is a scripted type of response? That can be common in some kids with diagnoses like Asperger's or autism. They sometimes rely on "set" or scripted answers or pat replies at times and may use them inappropriately...like they might use that pat answer even when it might not quite fit the scenario.

 

Obviously none of us can diagnose your DC, but those are issues I'd raise with the SLP. If he's going in for a thorough eval soon (did I read that in another thread?) I would jot down observations like his use of things like the "yeah right" even at times it doesn't "fit" correctly into the conversation, the "b00k" comment, etc.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Momof3littles

[amo_mea_filiis.]

How rapidly are you speaking? I've met little fellas that are really visual & concrete and need much slower speech than people around here use.

 

Can you give him a phrase to use instead of 'yeah, right?'

 

what is his alternative to cursing? Is he working with a therapist to recognize his feelings and deal with them appropriately?

 

I'm sure i talk too fast a lot with him. But he doesn't give anyone a chance to talk. He seems quite rude about it, but I'm starting to think he doesnt understand whats being said and it frustrates him.

 

I think yeah right has become his alternative to cursing, to an extent.

 

His mobile therapist is supposed to be working on feelings, but i dont see much of that.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

 

I think I'm missing part of the story here, because I don't understand why you had no right to get angry with him. :confused:

 

He hit his sister without provocation, was not remorseful, and was disrespectful to you. I would have been angry, too.

 

"Yeah, right" sounds both disrespectful and sarcastic to me. Perhaps it's some sort of communication issue, but it sounds like it might also be a "you can't tell me what to do," issue as well. (I'm picturing him saying it with an attitude.)

 

I think i had no right to go on and on with him. When he hit dd, i should have just said we dont hit and put him in his room to go back to what he was doing. Instead, i got dragged into a verbal argument with a child. I showed no control and got extremely frutsrated and angry with him, the exact behaviors i am trying to work on with him!

 

He said it with a major 'tude and it was very rude and sarcastic. My biggest problem is that repeating it didnt make sense to the situation, and maybe this is where we're getting stuck behaviorally.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

You could try making up social stories to give him a bigger stock of phrases to use on the spur of the moment. This has worked really well for GW, but his bcba did tell me that they work much better for him than for other kids she's worked with. Still they're easy to make and worth a try.

 

I will have to try some social stories with him. I sure would like to expand his vocab past curses and yeah right!

[amo_mea_filiis.]

If it makes you feel better, my dd is 10 and we still struggle with language issues. We are frequently saying, "I don't know what you are talking about. You need to give us more information." We'll be driving in the car and she'll say something like, "It's a big one," out of the blue, referring to something we talked about earlier in the day.

 

It's very frustrating, but it has gotten better. It really just takes time and a LOT of correction and prompting. I am NOT the nicest, most patient parent when it comes to this, I'll admit it, but if it were our house, I would respond with, "Yeah right is not an answer. You may answer with ______ or _____."

 

Feed him the language and make him practice, even if it's just canned responses. He'll get there.

 

I TOTALLY hear you about it being more obvious around peers. I cringe sometimes. It has gotten better and she is catching up, but she still needs patient friends.

 

Oh, and about the bOOks comment, I would have immediately said something about that being inappropriate, but explained why.

 

Have you ever read the book It's So Much Work to Be Your Friend? It was excellent and really helped me to see that it's *ok* that they make these blunders, but it's how we handle it that matters. He walks you through how to become a social coach for your kid without embarrassing them. It's wonderful.

 

Good luck. My dd still wasn't speaking in full sentences at 7, so hang in there!

 

I will see if my library has that book, thank you.

 

I didnt react to dd's bOOK comment because she was really just talking to herself. What ds heard and what his comment was supposed to mean is way beyond me.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Has the speech therapist ever expressed concerns about a pragmatic speech/language delay? Your description sounds a bit like it could be consistent with that, but I'm not sure if that's something you've explored.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatic_language_impairment

http://www.asha.org/public/speech/development/pragmatics.htm

 

Do you think the "yeah right" is a scripted type of response? That can be common in some kids with diagnoses like Asperger's or autism. They sometimes rely on "set" or scripted answers or pat replies at times and may use them inappropriately...like they might use that pat answer even when it might not quite fit the scenario.

 

Obviously none of us can diagnose your DC, but those are issues I'd raise with the SLP. If he's going in for a thorough eval soon (did I read that in another thread?) I would jot down observations like his use of things like the "yeah right" even at times it doesn't "fit" correctly into the conversation, the "b00k" comment, etc.

 

He has a couple big evals. The autism research center is coming up. I will be sure to mention this.

 

His current speech therapist has not worked with him very long, and i think they're currently working on processing and memory. I will read the links and talk to her, thank you.

 

It is possible he's using scripted lines. Dd has always done this, but 99% of the time her line was used appropriately. I will pay closer attention to what da says.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

He gains an insane amount on energy around other people. Crazy energy, very out of control.

 

Shutting off the faucet sounds like a good way to describe him. I don't see much of it as rude anymore until someone else says something. Whatever he's said probably came out rude, but most of the time he doesnt mean it that way.

[celticmom]

I am no expert but some of what you are describing sounds like an audio processing disorder. If something is going wrong with the input you could have a garbage in/ garbage out situation.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Overall processing is what the SLP says.

[8circles]

Maybe my post will be helpful, maybe not. I do feel for you. One of my kids has struggled on this area but not to the extreme of your ds.

 

I think in the room scenario, he was still mad about dd attempting to go into his room and was just lashing out. Not acceptable to hit or be disrespectful but I would try holding off on the anger response beyond a correction of the hitting & being more understanding of his anger. Somehiing like "I know you're angry. You don't like when dd comes into your room. I understand." If he's capable, maybe a bit of conversation about how it makes him feel or ask him for suggestions, even if they aren't practical or possible. I just think the whole tone of the household feels really combative and changing that as much as you can by your actions would open the door to more progress. Oh, and during any ans all corrections of ds, I would make sure dd is not anywhere sight or earshot.

 

The whole books comment I think is different. Sometimes my kids way thing that are off-the-wall. When the household is less combative/stressful, these can be handled with a look, a giggle and a "what is that supposed to mean?". I think you're kind-of a long way from there but once you get there, those comments wont be such an issue.

 

Again, I may just be way off-base in which case I apologize. :grouphug:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

.

Edited October 1, 2012 by amo_mea_filiis

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Maybe my post will be helpful, maybe not. I do feel for you. One of my kids has struggled on this area but not to the extreme of your ds.

 

I think in the room scenario, he was still mad about dd attempting to go into his room and was just lashing out. Not acceptable to hit or be disrespectful but I would try holding off on the anger response beyond a correction of the hitting & being more understanding of his anger. Somehiing like "I know you're angry. You don't like when dd comes into your room. I understand." If he's capable, maybe a bit of conversation about how it makes him feel or ask him for suggestions, even if they aren't practical or possible. I just think the whole tone of the household feels really combative and changing that as much as you can by your actions would open the door to more progress. Oh, and during any ans all corrections of ds, I would make sure dd is not anywhere sight or earshot.

 

The whole books comment I think is different. Sometimes my kids way thing that are off-the-wall. When the household is less combative/stressful, these can be handled with a look, a giggle and a "what is that supposed to mean?". I think you're kind-of a long way from there but once you get there, those comments wont be such an issue.

 

Again, I may just be way off-base in which case I apologize. :grouphug:

 

Not off base. Once in a while i can have a talk with ds about his comments, but not often enough to make a dent.

[Rhonda in TX]

I think i had no right to go on and on with him. When he hit dd, i should have just said we dont hit and put him in his room to go back to what he was doing. Instead, i got dragged into a verbal argument with a child. I showed no control and got extremely frutsrated and angry with him, the exact behaviors i am trying to work on with him!

 

He said it with a major 'tude and it was very rude and sarcastic. My biggest problem is that repeating it didnt make sense to the situation, and maybe this is where we're getting stuck behaviorally.

 

I go through this with my Aspie 16 year old. Some of the things he says just drive me NUTS. His reactions can be totally over the top and make no sense whatsoever. I try my best to just not get engaged in that no-win argument, but it is so very difficult. He just really pushes my buttons at times.

 

If I'm successful, I back off, then try to talk about it later when we've all calmed down. Have you had any success with that strategy? Is it easier for him to communicate when there is some distance from the situation?

 

I think you're right in thinking that "yeah, right" has become his alternative to cussing. He feels like he has to say something, so he just says that. I'm sure it's not an actual representation of his feelings at the time.

 

:grouphug:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I have tried talking him through situations, and i've waited until he's calm, but it just gets him angry again.

 

For example, this morning he was setting up one of his wars with lincoln logs and said (angrily) that "when dd wakes up she's going to pretend to kick it, and if she does that I'm going to HIT her, then i'm going to get in trouble and grrrrrr" (he couldn't finish without getting too mad). I had not even said anything, this was all to himself and about a situation that didnt even happen yet.

 

I waited a minute and told him to sit with me and suggested that when dd wakes up, he asks her not to pretend to kick his war. He stormed off to his room and slammed the door. Nothing had even happened!

[8circles]

Not off base. Once in a while i can have a talk with ds about his comments, but not often enough to make a dent.

 

I know what you mean. I do think there is value in making the attempt if you can manage it, even if it doesn't seem to make a dent. If nothing else, I think it would help YOU, you know? So many times parenting is not so much about fixing something that's broken but just treating it differently for our benefit. I don't know if I'm making sense. Anyhow, I just want to encourage you to keep on keeping on. I do understand (as much as I can without having lived it) that its a very hard situation. :grouphug:

[8circles]

I have tried talking him through situations, and i've waited until he's calm, but it just gets him angry again.

 

For example, this morning he was setting up one of his wars with lincoln logs and said (angrily) that "when dd wakes up she's going to pretend to kick it, and if she does that I'm going to HIT her, then i'm going to get in trouble and grrrrrr" (he couldn't finish without getting too mad). I had not even said anything, this was all to himself and about a situation that didnt even happen yet.

 

I waited a minute and told him to sit with me and suggested that when dd wakes up, he asks her not to pretend to kick his war. He stormed off to his room and slammed the door. Nothing had even happened!

 

Sigh. I do understand this kind of situation, unfortunately. What helps here is just making sure said child feels loved by me, completely separate & apart from these situations or his issues. :grouphug:

[Tiramisu]

He has a couple big evals. The autism research center is coming up. I will be sure to mention this.

 

His current speech therapist has not worked with him very long, and i think they're currently working on processing and memory. I will read the links and talk to her, thank you.

 

It is possible he's using scripted lines. Dd has always done this, but 99% of the time her line was used appropriately. I will pay closer attention to what da says.

 

I think the autism research center evaluation is the best first step.

 

I am no expert but some of what you are describing sounds like an audio processing disorder. If something is going wrong with the input you could have a garbage in/ garbage out situation.

 

:iagree:

 

If he does NOT get a diagnosis on the autism spectrum, you should definitely proceed with an auditory processing evaluation. Some audiologists will not proceed with a full auditory processing evaluation if there is an autism spectrum diagnosis--it's as though they just really expect an auditory processing problem to be there in that case, though I'm just guessing about that. They may also not proceed if they suspect untreated ADHD because that *may* impact the testing so the results become unreliable.

 

I have a dd with auditory processing disorder and the effects of it became worse not better over time. Because it was once missed in a screening by an audiologist, I always recommend people to make sure they find pediatric audiologist who is very familiar with auditory processing disorder. It would be a bit of a trip for you, but we had an excellent experience with the Audiology Department at the AI duPont Hospital for Children in Wilmington. They have another office in PA which would be closer to you (Newtown Square??). The evaluation takes two visits. The first is a thorough hearing screening and some preliminary testing. That takes about an hour or so. Then, if all is well, you can proceed to the full auditory processing evaluation which is a three hour appointment.

 

HTH! :grouphug:

Edited October 1, 2012 by NJKelli

[Garga]

This won't help you at all, but reading this makes me believe even more that my dad has some sort of aspergers/autism. I've suspected it ever since I had kids and started hearing about autism/aspergers, etc.

 

Like your son, my 63 year old dad says the most off the wall things. And they're often very inappropriate. I can totally see him saying the "maybe I did it" in response to someone saying, "it felt like someone bit my..." And the thing is, he totally doesn't mean anything bad by it. He totally doesn't understand how horribly these commments come across. And he can't seem to stop saying them. He has no concept of appropriate conversation. And he talks this way every day. It's not like it's once in awhile. Whenever I'm around him, I'm tense and nervous the whole time, wondering when he's going to say something that will embarrass the entire room. (He lives 2500 miles away, so I don't see him often.)

 

I'm so glad that there are places you can go to get a child with these issues help nowadays. People in the past, like my dad, never had the help. Do whatever you can to get him help now.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

It has happened enough though, that he replays the scene in his mind. It's not unusual for a 7 to want an effective authoritative solution to his difficulties, and be angry that it won't happen. Shucks, I remember talking to my son's k teacher in the fall parent/teacher conf. She felt son was antisocial since he wouldn't play blocks. He felt it was useless, as his preschool experience told hiim that kids that hog the blocks won't back off without adult intervention. Since his K teacher wouldn't intervene with the class hog, and he didn't view it his job to teach manners to others, he moved on to other activities. He had plenty of blocks to play with at home and friends who could cooperate, so it wasn't essential to him that he get to play at kindy. Your son though, wants and needs to play with these toys and the people issue is interfering. He can't put energy into developing language (which is what he is doing when he's manipulating all these things) if he's putting energy into defending from a bigger kid who is being an annoying pest. His speech there says that he feels words don't work. If he continually has to interact with those who aren't going to respect the verbal requests, he isn't going to progress out of taking physical action and in to using words. His speech also says that the bigger child has no consequences for her inappropriate behavior, which means he is alone in his quest.

 

This is how i feel, a billion times over. I tried explaining this to both his and dd's therapists, but they brush it off as him being manipulating and trying to control everything.

 

I think he's perfectly normal in not wanting to complete his chores or that his sister annoys him, but he can't express it "normally." His whole (behavior) team just thinks i'm nuts. I cant get another team, and i dont want to burn a bridge i may need when gets bigger.

 

Maybe his SLP would be willing to increase his sessions and/or get a group going. I know that the OT wants to get a group going for a few things.

[8circles]

It has happened enough though, that he replays the scene in his mind. It's not unusual for a 7 to want an effective authoritative solution to his difficulties, and be angry that it won't happen. Shucks, I remember talking to my son's k teacher in the fall parent/teacher conf. She felt son was antisocial since he wouldn't play blocks. He felt it was useless, as his preschool experience told hiim that kids that hog the blocks won't back off without adult intervention. Since his K teacher wouldn't intervene with the class hog, and he didn't view it his job to teach manners to others, he moved on to other activities. He had plenty of blocks to play with at home and friends who could cooperate, so it wasn't essential to him that he get to play at kindy. Your son though, wants and needs to play with these toys and the people issue is interfering. He can't put energy into developing language (which is what he is doing when he's manipulating all these things) if he's putting energy into defending from a bigger kid who is being an annoying pest. His speech there says that he feels words don't work. If he continually has to interact with those who aren't going to respect the verbal requests, he isn't going to progress out of taking physical action and in to using words. His speech also says that the bigger child has no consequences for her inappropriate behavior, which means he is alone in his quest.

 

ABSOLUTELY THIS. This is exactly what I see in your examples.

[Trish]

Language?

 

I'm stuck on the hitting. I would be addressing the hitting. It wouldn't matter if everyone was communicating in different foreign languages or pantomime. We don't allow hitting, so we address that when it occurs. It happens, yes, but there's no argument/trespass/explanation whatever that makes the hitting acceptable, so there'd be no discussion of what was said/done/imagined that would justify the hitting.

 

:001_huh:

[Catwoman]

I think i had no right to go on and on with him. When he hit dd, i should have just said we dont hit and put him in his room to go back to what he was doing. Instead, i got dragged into a verbal argument with a child. I showed no control and got extremely frutsrated and angry with him, the exact behaviors i am trying to work on with him!

 

He said it with a major 'tude and it was very rude and sarcastic. My biggest problem is that repeating it didnt make sense to the situation, and maybe this is where we're getting stuck behaviorally.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Don't blame yourself for getting dragged into a battle. Sometimes, it's almost impossible not to, because you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Is it better to lose your temper, or to walk away and let the kid think it's OK to be rude and disrespectful, and to think he can hit his sister and get away with it? Sure, there's a Perfect Parenting Middle Ground, but it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback when it's not your kid and when you're not the one in the middle of the situation. These things happen suddenly, and it's not like you have time to get perfectly centered and assess the most perfect and rational response. Sometimes we get lucky and stay calm, and everything works out perfectly, but I can't imagine that any parent never goes off the deep end every once in a while, especially when there's a pattern of behavior and it's not just a one-time thing.

 

 

This is how i feel, a billion times over. I tried explaining this to both his and dd's therapists, but they brush it off as him being manipulating and trying to control everything.

 

I think he's perfectly normal in not wanting to complete his chores or that his sister annoys him, but he can't express it "normally." His whole (behavior) team just thinks i'm nuts. I cant get another team, and i dont want to burn a bridge i may need when gets bigger.

 

I find it very distressing that his therapists don't take your assessment of your ds more seriously. It's all well and good that they are supposed to be experts in their field, but you are an expert on your son, and they should be working closely with you to diagnose his issues and to try to work toward finding solutions. Honestly, I know you don't want to burn any bridges, but it sounds like these therapists could very well do your ds more harm than good, if they seem to be focusing on the wrong issues. I wish they would spend more time listening to you and less time trying to label your ds and fit his issues into a tidy little box that they are familiar with treating, because it sounds like that's what they're doing when they say that when he disobeys you, it automatically means that he's trying to manipulate you (or whatever.)

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Language?

 

I'm stuck on the hitting. I would be addressing the hitting. It wouldn't matter if everyone was communicating in different foreign languages or pantomime. We don't allow hitting, so we address that when it occurs. It happens, yes, but there's no argument/trespass/explanation whatever that makes the hitting acceptable, so there'd be no discussion of what was said/done/imagined that would justify the hitting.

 

:001_huh:

 

I did address the hitting, but i couldnt even get him to acknowledge that the reason he hit her was solved before he hit.

 

I am working on his physical aggression, but the language is what worries me more long term. His aggression is one of the reasons dd has therapies. She says she knows its wrong for him to hit, but i dont want her to grow up and think its ok in a close relationship.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I think you need to have them work with the 11's behavior, while they teach 7 not to take her bait. He, imho, is too young not to get angry or fall for it occasionally...this kind of stuff is why young kids aren't left unsupervised with older ones. What are they suggesting you do to help the 11 not bait and make good choices with her activity selections? She needs to be learning how to have healthy relationships; picking at another is not part of that.

 

I need to start a social or support group for special needs kids with special needs siblings!

 

A typical 11 would be more able to understand just how distressing these little things are to their sn sibling, but dd has a hard time accepting that others think and feel differently from her. She *knows* that ds is going to blow up to some things that she does, but it isnt consistently enough that it changes her behavior.

 

Right now they're in the kitchen cooking (i'm 5 feet away in the living room and can see both of them). Dd was just talking herself through what she needed. Most of the time, ds would have jumped down her throat and been so worked up that he storms to his room. But today, she's going on 5+ minutes of constant chatter to herself and ds is fine. When these good little moments happen, sometimes dd will take advantage (i dont mean purposely take advantage) and get louder, directly address ds, start talking about anime, and it ends ugly.

 

While i was typing, ds quietly and calmly went up to his room and shut the door. I dont know if he removed himself to cope, or just decided to go do something else. Its his inconsistent reactions that can be hard to understand or even stay ahead of.

 

Eta- I guess what i mean is that im not sure how to work with dd regarding all of this.

[8circles]

I did address the hitting, but i couldnt even get him to acknowledge that the reason he hit her was solved before he hit.

 

I am working on his physical aggression, but the language is what worries me more long term. His aggression is one of the reasons dd has therapies. She says she knows its wrong for him to hit, but i dont want her to grow up and think its ok in a close relationship.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here, because I would say from your example that he has aggression because she pushes his buttons. No snark, I promise. I don't think he feels heard. Obviously this is hard because he doesn't communicate well, but I think making him feel heard is key.

 

It is wrong for him to hit. It is also wrong for her to push his buttons. I remember that she has issues as well, although I don't remember what they are exactly. So fixing her button-pushing may be just as difficult as fixing his communication.

 

ETA: OK, we were posting at the same time. Maybe you need to give pre-emptive direction to DD, first praising that she's talking softly & leaving DS alone (or whatever else makes her behavior positive) & remind her not to start talking louder. IDK. Whatever you do it will be exhausting, I'm sure.

Edited October 1, 2012 by momoflaw

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here, because I would say from your example that he has aggression because she pushes his buttons. No snark, I promise. I don't think he feels heard. Obviously this is hard because he doesn't communicate well, but I think making him feel heard is key.

 

It is wrong for him to hit. It is also wrong for her to push his buttons. I remember that she has issues as well, although I don't remember what they are exactly. So fixing her button-pushing may be just as difficult as fixing his communication.

 

ETA: OK, we were posting at the same time. Maybe you need to give pre-emptive direction to DD, first praising that she's talking softly & leaving DS alone (or whatever else makes her behavior positive) & remind her not to start talking louder. IDK. Whatever you do it will be exhausting, I'm sure.

 

To your original bolded- i guess my thinking is that if she marries, her spouse has no right to knock her out because shes being annoying.

 

Her therapist was supposed to be working on her relationship with ds, as part of her plan.

 

I always see a thing hanging at the library about social skills...im going to call the librarian right now and get that number.

[Trish]

I need to start a social or support group for special needs kids with special needs siblings!

 

A typical 11 would be more able to understand just how distressing these little things are to their sn sibling, but dd has a hard time accepting that others think and feel differently from her. She *knows* that ds is going to blow up to some things that she does, but it isnt consistently enough that it changes her behavior.

 

Right now they're in the kitchen cooking (i'm 5 feet away in the living room and can see both of them). Dd was just talking herself through what she needed. Most of the time, ds would have jumped down her throat and been so worked up that he storms to his room. But today, she's going on 5+ minutes of constant chatter to herself and ds is fine. When these good little moments happen, sometimes dd will take advantage (i dont mean purposely take advantage) and get louder, directly address ds, start talking about anime, and it ends ugly.

 

While i was typing, ds quietly and calmly went up to his room and shut the door. I dont know if he removed himself to cope, or just decided to go do something else. Its his inconsistent reactions that can be hard to understand or even stay ahead of.

 

Eta- I guess what i mean is that im not sure how to work with dd regarding all of this.

 

:grouphug: I think the group is a great idea. It has to be hard to feel like you're the only one dealing with this, and other people might have developed new and different coping strategies.

[Incognito]

It sounds to me like your DS wanted to punish your DD because she went into his room. He didn't care that she was out already, he didn't want her in there ever and she knows it. He felt hitting her was the way to punish her for this.

 

I agree that his hitting needs to be addressed (and not by sending him back to the place he wanted to be alone in - that is more of a reward than an opportunity to stop and think about what he did).

 

I don't have kids with the same issues (although my DD does seem to have some of the same language issues you are talking about - the reason I opened the thread, and my DS, while younger, is hot tempered and I can see him doing that hitting. With DS, he needs to know that I will be the parent and handle the situation justly - otherwise he takes matters into his own hands and it isn't pretty).

 

In our house, I've found that focusing on the need to calm down before anything else happens (and having a good spot for that which isn't a cozy hide away but is somewhere public just to sit) works well. It isn't perfect, but we have gone over it a bajillion times and the kids know that we don't move forward until we are calm. It could be upset about fighting, about trying to find a sock, whatever. We need to calm down to think. Perhaps that might be useful?

 

Also, there is a book http://www.amazon.com/You-are-Social-Detective-Explaining/dp/0884272001/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349115038&sr=8-1&keywords=social+detective that discusses random talking and generally how to communicate with others in a positive way that we have found handy. It has helped make it easier for us to talk about how they talk in a non-combative way (saying things are "expected" and "unexpected" instead of right/wrong or appropriate/inappropriate).

 

HTH