Anyone who has done prealgebra in 9th?

[Alison in KY]

What other math program did you use after the pre-ag,alg, geo, and alg 2 sequence? Our state's pre-college curriculum states that prealgebra does not count for a credit. Since I obviously have a non-mathy kid, I'm trying to think of something that isn't very intense to take. Plus, he'd have to take it alongside one of the other programs. Any ideas?

 

Alison

[hthnmamax2]

What about Consumer Math or a financial literacy course? My oldest will be doing that as an elective and my youngest will do it as a Math class.

[angela in ohio]

Do you have any options for dual enrollment of CC classes. You could try a semester of a basic math course at the CC. If the student is going into business, education, or some humanities majors, it might transfer and take care of their math requirement.

 

If not, I'd go with a gentle introduction to statistics, a consumer math class, or doing trigonometry along with the algebra II during senior year.

[kiana]

Does he have any idea of a potential major?

 

If he's thinking of anything in a STEM field, he's going to need to be working math year-round anyway, to catch up on as much algebra as possible.

 

If he's sure he's not, then you could look at consumer math. Most statistics courses require algebra 2, but you may be able to find one that doesn't. Some colleges may not count consumer math either, but those are generally the more competitive ones.

[dbmamaz]

Our state's pre-college curriculum states that prealgebra does not count for a credit.

I keep coming back to this question . .why do the state standards matter for a homeschooler? the state isnt giving your child a diploma. He might need to take remedial math in college, depending on his major, but why do you think you need to meet your state's standards? I thought that was a big part of why we homeschool, so we DONT have to meet our state standards?

[kiana]

I keep coming back to this question . .why do the state standards matter for a homeschooler? the state isnt giving your child a diploma. He might need to take remedial math in college, depending on his major, but why do you think you need to meet your state's standards? I thought that was a big part of why we homeschool, so we DONT have to meet our state standards?

 

It may very well matter if you plan on going to a state university. Many will still accept 3 years of mathematics, but even more of them are moving to requiring 4 years, and it would be advisable for *anyone* (not just Alison) who's concerned about possible shortfalls to contact local universities and find out about both the minimum requirements and whether there are upcoming increases in the works.

[Lori D.]

why do the state standards matter for a homeschooler? the state isnt giving your child a diploma.... I thought that was a big part of why we homeschool, so we DONT have to meet our state standards?

 

 

While it is true that most states do not regulate homeschoolers or require specific coursework, accreditation, or oversight for graduation, there are a few states that do. It's wonderful to be in a non-regulated state; you are very fortunate! (Our family is, too.) :) But it's also important to not make blanket statements that could cause potential problems for those homeschoolers who are required to follow state standards that most of the rest of us do not. Knowing what a state's legal standards for homeschooling are, helps each homeschooling family make the best informed decisions. :)

 

 

Also, as Kiana said, if you're in a non-regulated state, it's not about jumping the hoops of state board of education high school requirements -- but about being able to meet a university's ENTRANCE (admission) requirements. All the universities I looked at required at least 3 Math credits (Alg. 1, Geom., Alg. 2) and most required a 4th math credit that had Alg. 2 as a pre-requisite (so, a math above Alg. 2).

 

 

BEST of luck in your homeschooling journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Jane in NC]

While it is true that most states do not regulate homeschoolers or require specific coursework, accreditation, or oversight for graduation, there are a few states that do. It's wonderful to be in a non-regulated state; you are very fortunate! (Our family is, too.) :) But it's also important to not make blanket statements that could cause potential problems for those homeschoolers who are required to follow state standards that most of the rest of us do not. Knowing what a state's legal standards for homeschooling are, helps each homeschooling family make the best informed decisions. :)

 

 

Also, as Kiana said, if you're in a non-regulated state, it's not about jumping the hoops of state board of education high school requirements -- but about being able to meet a university's ENTRANCE (admission) requirements. All the universities I looked at required at least 3 Math credits (Alg. 1, Geom., Alg. 2) and most required a 4th math credit that had Alg. 2 as a pre-requisite (so, a math above Alg. 2).

 

 

BEST of luck in your homeschooling journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Yes. Consumer Math may not be accepted at a university as a math above Algebra II. One needs to check! Further financial literacy may not be considered a math class.

[PeterPan]

Alison, if he starts something like TT pre-algebra now and does 2-3 lessons a day, he can complete it in a semester. Then start the TT algebra 1 at a more normal pace and go through the summer. That way he's done with algebra 1 by fall but didn't have to overlap or get frustrated. Give him the placement test though for TT. There's always the *slight* chance he'll test right out of the pre-algebra. You never know! It's very gentle, and TT, though much maligned, is turning out to be very good for my dd. She's been doing 2, sometimes 3 lessons a day, and I think a dc a year older definitely could. At first she was slow, but she got noticeably faster with the method. Typically it takes her 35 minutes to do those 2 lessons. So if he could take it up to 3, he could fly through there. 139 lessons and around 20 tests, I forget. That's just a few months of work if he hits the stick. He can be done by Christmas. Promise him an ipod or something great if he gets it done. Carrots. We use lots of carrots in our house. :)

[Alison in KY]

Thanks all for the suggestions. I am in a state where I do not have to worry about what the public schools do. However, I do not want to look too different from public schools on our transcripts. I'm trying to find that great middle ground. Right now, we will have to work hard to just get to pre-algebra in 9th grade. Bright boy, just not into math, or too academic. He's hard to describe, but he's a great young man and I know he will be a success at whatever he does, he just needs to wrap his brain around school being a bit more work than he wants.

 

I spoke with Murray State and University of Ky this morning, and both require Alg, Alg 2, and Geo. Neither admissions person I spoke with acted like it was a big deal to do pre-algebra in 9th. So, I was feeling much better about things until I popped back on here and I see that someone mentioned they think college's are going to 4 credits now:confused:. So..., I'm not sure what I need to do. We are very close to a community college, so if we just go with the pre-alg, alg, alg 2, and geo...and they do change their standards, wouldn't they just require me to maybe do a summer class at the cc? Also, really, if these two say these are the requirements today, then could they really change their mind and it really impact me in 5 years? I'd think they'd have to give some leeway based on when you graduate.

 

One local homeschooler has said that it really doesn't matter too much about the high school classes, her daughter never finished algebra 1 but her ACT scores were well enough for her to be accepted into the college she wanted. So, overall, unless it's a top named college, would it really matter if we were able to do well on the ACT, and pay to go to school there? Part of me thinks as long as I can pay them for classes, are they really going to care?

 

I'm not trying to blow this stuff off, I'm really just trying to look ahead and avoid any curve balls thrown at us. If anyone can enlighten me, I would really appreciate it :tongue_smilie:.

 

I will check out Teaching Textbooks. We are using Math U See, and I know the sequence is totally different. I do plan on going through the program at a steady rate, and working math on weekends. With this one, I have to do shorter, but frequent lessons. I'm even considering doing some morning work, then some nightime homework. He's definitely having some retention issues.

 

Thank you all for the advice.

 

Alison

[dbmamaz]

If the school said its ok, i wouldnt worry too much. and yes, you should be able to take the additional class over the summer. Or take a gap year if you need to, at the community college.

 

Not all kids CAN condense 4 years of math in to 3 years. Its just not that easy for everyone.

 

My son took pre-algebra in 7th grade at school, and i tried all year of 8th grade to find a homeschool algebra curriculum which would work, only to finally realize he really hadnt absorbed his prealgebra. By the beginning of 9th grade, I realized he did not know how to do arithmetic with fractions AT ALL. He only knew how to convert them to decimals on a calculator and do the math there.

 

We have finished the first 2 years of upper level singapore, and now he is going to take a quick run through Life of Fred Beginning Algebra, because I think its more important for him to fully grasp the algebra before pushing him along to the next subject. We will then do another level of singapore, and i'm not sure what we will do after that. I might have him take math at community college during his Sr year - i plan on sending him to community college because he is 2E and not mature enough to handle 4-year school. OUr plan is to get him a 2-year degree in something that will qualify him to do tech support of some sort. then after he has some work under his belt, and some maturity, he can decide what he wants to do, and go back to school then.

 

My daughter took algebra 1 in 9th grade, and algebra 2 and geometry in high school, then moved to be dual enrolled as a graphic arts major. We shifted from a high to a standard diploma through the public school and she was not required to take any more math at all. She did end up taking pre-calc at the community college and now, as a transfer to a 4 year university, is taking statistics.

 

There are many paths. I feel like this board sometimes forgets that.

[Jane in NC]

Alison, may I be blunt? I would take homeschoolers who report on students doing well on the ACT despite not completing Algebra with a grain of salt. What does "well" mean?

 

For one thing, many four year colleges and universities require seeing more math than Algebra I on a transcript. Community colleges have open enrollment. Does your student aspire to attend Murray State or another uni? I would put more weight on what the admissions staff has to say.

 

Secondly, about four years of high school math. Public unis in North Carolina changed their requirements for the class of 2010. Homeschoolers who had formerly graduated students with three years of math were surprised when the state university requirements changed from three years to four. The warning is to be aware of the handwriting on the wall in your state.

[regentrude]

One local homeschooler has said that it really doesn't matter too much about the high school classes, her daughter never finished algebra 1 but her ACT scores were well enough for her to be accepted into the college she wanted. So, overall, unless it's a top named college, would it really matter if we were able to do well on the ACT, and pay to go to school there? Part of me thinks as long as I can pay them for classes, are they really going to care?

 

Like Jane, I would be wary about accepting the claim that one can do "well enough" on the ACT without finishing algebra 1. What does "well enough" mean? How much (or how little) did "the college she wanted" expect?

First, "well enough" for one school may not make the admissions cut at another - and not just at top schools.

Second, a better score on the ACT often leads to scholarship possibilities. Of course, if money is no consideration for the family, that might not be of interest.

Third, and maybe most importantly: getting into college is not the end goal, succeeding in college is. And without solid math grounding, students will struggle.

[Alison in KY]

Great replies, thank you. I am not offended by the blunt statement at all. I think she meant that they never totally completed the book, but I'm really not sure. I'll have to find out.

 

Our state has pre college curriculum requirements for public schools, and it's there, in smaller print that they say prealgebra does not count for a credit. I do not have to follow that, and I'm a bit confused as to why they point that out when the colleges are just saying the 3 classes. Can anyone offer insight as to why prealgebra is not considered credit worthy?

 

Alison

[regentrude]

Can anyone offer insight as to why prealgebra is not considered credit worthy?

 

I assume this is because prealgebra is normally completed in middle school and the level is not considered high school worthy, but remedial if taken at high school age.

It is just like some science courses at middle school level are not considered high school level and thus do not count for credit.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I assume this is because prealgebra is normally completed in middle school and the level is not considered high school worthy, but remedial if taken at high school age.

It is just like some science courses at middle school level are not considered high school level and thus do not count for credit.

 

There are states that are pushing algebra 1 down into 8th grade for standard track and 7th grade for accelerated students. There is a move to push "algebraic reasoning" into even earlier grades.

 

I know that I was seeing this trend in VA back 15 years ago when they were first rolling out the state SOLs.

 

I personally think that it's important to work hard at mastering the math at the level the student is at. Rushing ahead often leads to a crumbly foundation and bigger problems later on. Our experience has been that daily diligent work is a key factor. Another thing that has helped at our house is lots and lots of practice. We recently did a couple chapters in Dolciani on the same topics we'd covered in AoPS, because I wasn't happy with Rutabaga and Cauliflower's mastery of the topic. I didn't want to move them ahead to the next phase when they weren't yet solid on the earlier prerequisite concept.

 

I like AoPS a lot, but also scour Dolciani for larger quantities of problems to practice on. I use Khan Academy videos for alternate explanations. I used Key To Math books when I felt that their fractions and decimal manipulations weren't up to snuff. Mix it up, keep pressing forward every day. (We take off most weekends, but continue school through most of the summer. We end in June and start up again in early/mid August.)

[mom2jjka]

What about Saxon Math. Doesn't it also include a full credit of geometry in it's algebra 1 and 2 books? If he can complete those books in 2 years - plus the additional upper level math book the following year - that would be equivalent to 4 credits.

[kiana]

I spoke with Murray State and University of Ky this morning, and both require Alg, Alg 2, and Geo. Neither admissions person I spoke with acted like it was a big deal to do pre-algebra in 9th. So, I was feeling much better about things until I popped back on here and I see that someone mentioned they think college's are going to 4 credits now:confused:. So..., I'm not sure what I need to do. We are very close to a community college, so if we just go with the pre-alg, alg, alg 2, and geo...and they do change their standards, wouldn't they just require me to maybe do a summer class at the cc? Also, really, if these two say these are the requirements today, then could they really change their mind and it really impact me in 5 years? I'd think they'd have to give some leeway based on when you graduate.

 

Some colleges are. Many are not. If the local state college said not to worry, *don't worry*. Focus on getting through with a SOLID understanding of the courses he DOES take.

 

One local homeschooler has said that it really doesn't matter too much about the high school classes, her daughter never finished algebra 1 but her ACT scores were well enough for her to be accepted into the college she wanted. So, overall, unless it's a top named college, would it really matter if we were able to do well on the ACT, and pay to go to school there? Part of me thinks as long as I can pay them for classes, are they really going to care?

 

I would NOT bank on this. It is possible -- I know someone who scored in the 600s on the SAT having only taken algebra 1 -- but it is pretty improbable and usually happens to kids who are very talented and just didn't study, had life get in the way, etc.

 

I will check out Teaching Textbooks. We are using Math U See, and I know the sequence is totally different. I do plan on going through the program at a steady rate, and working math on weekends. With this one, I have to do shorter, but frequent lessons. I'm even considering doing some morning work, then some nightime homework. He's definitely having some retention issues.

 

If Math U See is working, I wouldn't change now. I don't think I'd try to do a full lesson twice a day, but possibly saving 5 problems to be worked later in the day would help with retention.

[4wildberrys]

Thanks all for the suggestions. I am in a state where I do not have to worry about what the public schools do. However, I do not want to look too different from public schools on our transcripts. I'm trying to find that great middle ground. Right now, we will have to work hard to just get to pre-algebra in 9th grade. Bright boy, just not into math, or too academic. He's hard to describe, but he's a great young man and I know he will be a success at whatever he does, he just needs to wrap his brain around school being a bit more work than he wants.

 

I spoke with Murray State and University of Ky this morning, and both require Alg, Alg 2, and Geo. Neither admissions person I spoke with acted like it was a big deal to do pre-algebra in 9th. So, I was feeling much better about things until I popped back on here and I see that someone mentioned they think college's are going to 4 credits now:confused:. So..., I'm not sure what I need to do. We are very close to a community college, so if we just go with the pre-alg, alg, alg 2, and geo...and they do change their standards, wouldn't they just require me to maybe do a summer class at the cc? Also, really, if these two say these are the requirements today, then could they really change their mind and it really impact me in 5 years? I'd think they'd have to give some leeway based on when you graduate.

 

One local homeschooler has said that it really doesn't matter too much about the high school classes, her daughter never finished algebra 1 but her ACT scores were well enough for her to be accepted into the college she wanted. So, overall, unless it's a top named college, would it really matter if we were able to do well on the ACT, and pay to go to school there? Part of me thinks as long as I can pay them for classes, are they really going to care?

 

I'm not trying to blow this stuff off, I'm really just trying to look ahead and avoid any curve balls thrown at us. If anyone can enlighten me, I would really appreciate it :tongue_smilie:.

 

I will check out Teaching Textbooks. We are using Math U See, and I know the sequence is totally different. I do plan on going through the program at a steady rate, and working math on weekends. With this one, I have to do shorter, but frequent lessons. I'm even considering doing some morning work, then some nightime homework. He's definitely having some retention issues.

 

Thank you all for the advice.

 

Alison

 

If MUS is working, then I don't recommend a switch. Also, if your sons goals are a top rated university that requires 4 credits not including Prealgebra, then pushing him to finish up through precalc would be necessary. Otherwise, especially if he is considering Cc, let him work at his level! My dd finished exactly through Alg 1 and Geometry with her final year being MUS Stewardship. Her ACT wasn't impressive, but she just got accepted at our big state university! Alg 2 was never even a consideration with her.....and thankfully her life is not ruined for it. As a homeschool student, she did have to take COMPASS testing, so she crammed for that test 2 weeks before taking it even though she had not studied Algebra for 2 years, and still ended up with a decent score for admittence. I had called Admissions to inquire about how important test scores were, and i was reassured that of course they count, but they also look at the whole picture of the student -- and this is a HUGE state university. Needless to say, this was reassuring. The main point is to look at the goals of your student and then look at college choices to determine how hard you need to push. ;)