The Onion on the humanitarian crisis in Syria

[Osmosis Mom]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/scientists-say-us-may-have-discovered-previously-u,28807/

[Amira]

This is one that's so painfully true, it's not funny. And it's only getting worse, whether you're talking about the situation in Syria, or nearly everyone else's ignoring what's happening. There has been shockingly little coverage of this.

[LibraryLover]

No excuses. Yet, I do think we regular Americans are burnt out on war in that part of the world.

 

We tried a few times, did bad crud, screwed up, did well, didn't do well, sent out missles when we thought we had the right target-- but did not-- and we even got Noble Peace prizes for trying, but nothing seems to matter.

 

Fried is the word I would use, and I really do care about those children. I'm simply exhuasted by war.

 

Few have the stamina to read more press about a bomb falling on an innocent wedding party.

Edited September 6, 2012 by LibraryLover

[IsabelC]

Ouch.

[LibraryLover]

Ouch.

 

 

Exactly.

 

What can be done that will truly change things? There are people giving their hearts and souls and lives to get this in check.

 

Who has a plan? A good, doable plan?

[Osmosis Mom]

Human sympathy? Is that not a starter?

[LibraryLover]

Human sympathy? Is that not a starter?

 

 

Yes. Of course. I hurt for those families. I read too much news...I know what is happening.

 

It would be difficult to convince Americans to want a war in Syria. Or even a 'little' battle.

 

I am dog-tired of war and mistakes and death.

 

I hate that I have battle fatique. Those innocent people! I hate to imagine the horror. It's awful. Horrible.

 

It's also not true nothing is being done. There are people involved, diplomatically. We don't hear all of that, but it's happening.

Edited September 7, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Amira]

I guess I don't see where Nadia or the linked article are calling for military intervention. There is a significant humanitarian crisis in Syria and surrounding countries that doesn't necessarily require military intervention to alleviate it.

 

I know I've felt like Nadia about other parts of the world I care deeply about, that only get in the news briefly when something terrible or something stupid happens. No one seems to care beyond that. But we can't stop caring, and the people of Syria need our help more than ever right now.

[Osmosis Mom]

This here is from CNN. When we had more public outcry about 8 months ago, then the regime in Syria was still hesitant especially after media attention. Since then, the country has not cared as media attention lessened and politicians stopped condemning.

 

 

I have often followed news about humanitarian injustice around the world and have only few times interacted. Most times I never made my voice heard because I felt unimportant, powerless. It took me over 8 months of the conflict before I began watching the news but only a few weeks before I was involved. Reason for my quick engagement was not that I feel more important these days, but simply that I have met those people and have seen their level of oppression over the years (and their constant fear). For people like that to rise up and demand freedom is a thing that must be honored. And know, that for the first several months it was only and merely peaceful rallies that were met by machine guns. How can you NOT support this kind of injustice?

[stripe]

I guess I don't see where Nadia or the linked article are calling for military intervention. There is a significant humanitarian crisis in Syria and surrounding countries that doesn't necessarily require military intervention to alleviate it.

 

People were following Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya. People were excited or captivated, and rooting for the people. I don't know why the world stands by and lets so many nasty dictators destroy their own country and people. But there you are.

 

Do people even know where Syria is? Sigh.

[LibraryLover]

People were following Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya. People were excited or captivated, and rooting for the people. I don't know why the world stands by and lets so many nasty dictators destroy their own country and people. But there you are.

 

Do people even know where Syria is? Sigh.

 

 

Perhaps many do not.

 

What should be done? What is the best course of action? I could get behind a good plan.

Edited September 6, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Osmosis Mom]

I think the major plan right now -apart from sending money for humanitarian aid- is to raise awareness here in the States. Why awareness, well, to support other human beings in their basic right for freedom and to create goodwill and understanding between peoples and two countries as Syria soon moves towards a new era in its history. We have rallies everywhere, but we rarely see more than 10-20 Americans (maximum) who perhaps stop for a few minutes before moving on. We actually have a Walk 4 Syria's Children this coming Saturday (http://www.walk4childrenofsyria.org) nationwide and would love support from our fellow citizens. We are also planning a big rally 9/26 in front of UN as the Iranian president will be visiting that day and we are out protesting (with some Iranian groups as well) the support Iran is showing Syria's regime and military while the West is still treating them nicely and ignoring that their weapons and missiles are killing and targeting civilians and children inside their own homes.

 

Anyone here can find me on Facebook if they really want to know what is going on...Nadia Alawa

[LibraryLover]

I think the major plan right now -apart from sending money for humanitarian aid- is to raise awareness here in the States. Why awareness, well, to support other human beings in their basic right for freedom and to create goodwill and understanding between peoples and two countries as Syria soon moves towards a new era in its history. We have rallies everywhere, but we rarely see more than 10-20 Americans (maximum) who perhaps stop for a few minutes before moving on. We actually have a Walk 4 Syria's Children this coming Saturday (www.walk4childrenofsyria.org) nationwide and would love support from our fellow citizens. We are also planning a big rally 9/26 in front of UN as the Iranian president will be visiting that day and we are out protesting (with some Iranian groups as well) the support Iran is showing Syria's regime and military while the West is still treating them nicely and ignoring that their weapons and missiles are killing and targeting civilians and children inside their own homes.

 

Anyone here can find me on Facebook if they really want to know what is going on...Nadia Alawa

 

 

It's so sad Yes. I read about that! All the best. :grouphug:

 

What can we do :right now: to make life better for the people of Syria?

Edited September 6, 2012 by LibraryLover

[MrsBasil]

This is anecdotal.

 

People feel terrible about it, but don't see a realistic way to help.

 

The people I know don't see any way to help stop what is happening without military involvement. They are completely and absolutely against that.

It's not surprising.

 

Beyond that, people I know have less money for charitable giving and they are focusing their efforts locally.

[Serenade]

This just about made me cry.

[SunnyDays]

This is anecdotal.

 

People feel terrible about it, but don't see a realistic way to help.

 

The people I know don't see any way to help stop what is happening without military involvement. They are completely and absolutely against that.

It's not surprising.

 

Beyond that, people I know have less money for charitable giving and they are focusing their efforts locally.

 

I think all this is very true. We see it, and recognize the injustice. But we don't have the resources for more military involvement. People have less disposable income for charitable giving, although many do what they can.

 

Right now, there are problems of all sorts around the world. Syria is one of the most visibly inhumane, to be sure. But I think it's hard for many people to see outside their local area when basic needs go unmet there.

 

My heart goes out to the people involved in these situations.

[Spy Car]

I think it is a false premise that Americans are ignorant about what is taking place in Syria or indifferent to the humanitarian problems.

 

The facts are the American administration is closely working with the neighboring governments of Turkey and Jordan, and in concert with European and regional Arab countries to filter arms and material to Syrian rebel groups. Much this his work is taking place covertly or semi-covertly, but anyone paying attention knows it is happening.

 

In addition the American president was very clear that he would use American military force against the Syrian government should the Assad regime use chemical or biological weapons against civilians. Thus far, despite too much "conventional" bloodshed, the WMD line has not been crossed.

 

To be frank, I think many Americans—almost none of whom are fans of the Assad regime—are concerned with the possibility of murderous retribution that could come when the minority Alawite government falls to Sunnite rebels who have good cause for revenge. Like it (or not) many minority groups in Syria have backed the Assad governments (of both Bashar and his father Hafez, before him) because they have been seen as "protectors" against the domination by a Sunni majority. This includes Syrian Christians, a community whose fate is in some doubt when the Assad government falls (as it surely will).

 

Combine these concerns with a generalized concern with the growing political power of deeply conservative Sunni Islam in the region (including Arab Spring countries), as well as fears of al Qaeda and other "jihadi" involvement in the revolt, and Americans aren't so sure we have a dog in the fight.

 

Americans want a peaceful solution that avoids sectarian violence. The reason thousands of Americans are not showing up at rallies isn't because we are ignorant or indifferent, it is because we are not naive to the complexities in Syria.

 

Bill

Edited September 6, 2012 by Spy Car

[LibraryLover]

I think it is a false premise that Americans are ignorant about what is taking place in Syria or indifferent to the humanitarian problems.

 

 

Combine these concerns with a generalized concern with the growing political power of deeply conservative Sunni Islam in the region (including Arab Spring countries), as well as fears of al Qaeda and other "jihadi" involvement in the revolt, and Americans aren't so sure we have a dog in the fight.

 

Americans want a peaceful solution that avoids sectarian violence. The reason thousands of Americans are not showing up at rallies isn't because we are ignorant or indifferent, it is because we are not naive to the complexities in Syria.

 

Bill

 

 

I snipped some of your post, but I think you have summed this up pretty well. It is a topic of conversation among the people I know, but we also understand it's beyond complex.

 

We are kind of spent. Even GWB (never voted for the guy, to be clear) said he wasn't nterested in nation building, but, oops, along comes 9/11. Sweet. A lot of us knew the aftermath would suck.

 

I also remember Iran and the hostages (ok, none of this involves Syria). These folks wanted RR instead of Carter? Why?

 

None of it makes any sense to the average person. (And average person does not = stupid arse. )

Edited September 7, 2012 by LibraryLover

[MrsBasil]

I snipped some of your post, but I think you have summed this up pretty well. It is a topic of conversation among the people I know, but we also understand it's beyond complex.

 

Basically, we are sick of war. People can yammer about American military ass-kicking all they want, but we really don't want to deal with it. (We were dragged into WWI, into WWII, etc etc.)

 

We are kind of spent. Even GWB (never voted for the guy, to be clear) said he wasn't nterested in nation building, but, oops, along comes 9/11. Sweet. We knew that would suck.

 

I also remember Iran and the hostages (ok, none of this involves Syria). These folks want RR instead of Carter? Why?

 

None of it makes any sense to the average person. (And average person does not = stupid arse. )

 

I've seen this as well.

 

 

 

Another thing I've seen/heard is that people in my age group(I'm 30) have spent their spent their entire adult lives with our country at war and being disliked around the world for it. We've heard how America does not need to police the world or how it has a savior complex or what have and the message has been received.

 

I mean I can not think of a single person I know IRL in my age group who thought the US involvement in Libya in 2011 was a good thing.

 

Again anecdotal and my experience.

[stripe]

Combine these concerns with a generalized concern with the growing political power of deeply conservative Sunni Islam in the region (including Arab Spring countries), as well as fears of al Qaeda and other "jihadi" involvement in the revolt, and Americans aren't so sure we have a dog in the fight.

 

Sure, on the one hand, you have people who want to turn the US into a deeply conservative theocracy, and on the other hand horror, abject horror that a Muslim with the slightest bit of interest in their own religion could ever be in power in a country of 90%+ Muslims. It becomes part of the same song of Christian oppression at home and abroad.

 

I think it's that people don't think there is anything other than military intervention that can accomplish anything, and there is fatigue over that, and better to just go back to one's own business. Rather like hearing the neighbor beating his wife. Just turn on the tv to drown out the sounds of her screams, tsk tsk about it, and hope one day it will stop. Because, you know, those people don't have the same values we do. That's just "their way." And maybe it's better they have a dictator anyway. A dictator is safe and predictable. Unlike democracy, which is totally the most important thing ever in the whole world....for us.

[TXMomof4]

 

I think it's that people don't think there is anything other than military intervention that can accomplish anything, and there is fatigue over that, and better to just go back to one's own business. Rather like hearing the neighbor beating his wife. Just turn on the tv to drown out the sounds of her screams, tsk tsk about it, and hope one day it will stop. Because, you know, those people don't have the same values we do. That's just "their way." And maybe it's better they have a dictator anyway. A dictator is safe and predictable. Unlike democracy, which is totally the most important thing ever in the whole world....for us.

 

I don't think that's fair. As LL said above - give me a tangible way to help that doesn't include military intervention and I'm there! Using your analogy above - of course I'd want to physically stop the assault and get the police involved. Who exactly is going to stop Assad? Who is the policeman that's going to knock on that door? Then you're back to military intervention and I don't think America has what it takes (mentally/emotionally) for that right now.

[FaithManor]

I don't think that's fair. As LL said above - give me a tangible way to help that doesn't include military intervention and I'm there! Using your analogy above - of course I'd want to physically stop the assault and get the police involved. Who exactly is going to stop Assad? Who is the policeman that's going to knock on that door? Then you're back to military intervention and I don't think America has what it takes (mentally/emotionally) for that right now.

 

 

Thank you for saying this!

 

I don't know too many people that turn a blind eye to the guy next door beating his wife. Really I don't! I'm not certain how the analogy is in anyway related to the complex problem of Syria. The two do not seem to equate in my mind.

 

Bill's information is correct. Behind the scenes, many things are being tried in an effort to get help there without military intervention. As for the U.S., we cannot be everyone else's police force. B.T.D.T. and all it does is divide this nation, never seems to end well, and bankrupts us from taking care of poeple here. It seems we struggle to learn history's lessons: Korea, Vietnam, Iraq........

 

Now, I'd be allllllllll for political assylum for refuges if we can get them here. I'm allllll for humanitarian aid if.we.can.get.it.in.and.distributed. Those are BIG ifs because in situations like this, many times the upheaval in the region is so intense, it's nigh unto impossible to get the Red Cross and other organizations in there to distribute the needed aid or if you are going to make it happen, you have to send the military to get it done. Unfortunately, in that regard, America is tapped out.

 

I'm sick in my gut for what is happening there and everyone I have talked to about the situation feels the same way. No one has turned a blind eye. No one feels there is any reasonable thing they can do about it at the present time.

 

Once the dust settles, I am sure that the country will have to open orphanges. I don't see any other way around it. If the U.S. government will be paying for the shipping of containers to Syrian orphanages for the Red Cross or other charitable organizations, I would be thrilled to collect supplies or get some people together to make up care packages of personal items to be sent to the region. That's something that I, a lone American, can do to help relieve someone's suffering. The key will be that the appropriate avenues will be cleared so that those items can actually get into the hands of those that need them.

 

Faith

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Thank you for saying this!

 

I don't know too many people that turn a blind eye to the guy next door beating his wife. Really I don't! I'm not certain how the analogy is in anyway related to the complex problem of Syria. The two do not seem to equate in my mind.

 

Bill's information is correct. Behind the scenes, many things are being tried in an effort to get help there without military intervention. As for the U.S., we cannot be everyone else's police force. B.T.D.T. and all it does is divide this nation, never seems to end well, and bankrupts us from taking care of poeple here. It seems we struggle to learn history's lessons: Korea, Vietnam, Iraq........

 

Now, I'd be allllllllll for political assylum for refuges if we can get them here. I'm allllll for humanitarian aid if.we.can.get.it.in.and.distributed. Those are BIG ifs because in situations like this, many times the upheaval in the region is so intense, it's nigh unto impossible to get the Red Cross and other organizations in there to distribute the needed aid or if you are going to make it happen, you have to send the military to get it done. Unfortunately, in that regard, America is tapped out.

 

I'm sick in my gut for what is happening there and everyone I have talked to about the situation feels the same way. No one has turned a blind eye. No one feels there is any reasonable thing they can do about it at the present time.

 

Once the dust settles, I am sure that the country will have to open orphanges. I don't see any other way around it. If the U.S. government will be paying for the shipping of containers to Syrian orphanages for the Red Cross or other charitable organizations, I would be thrilled to collect supplies or get some people together to make up care packages of personal items to be sent to the region. That's something that I, a lone American, can do to help relieve someone's suffering. The key will be that the appropriate avenues will be cleared so that those items can actually get into the hands of those that need them.

 

Faith

 

:iagree: My husband and I discuss almost daily how this is such a complex and volatile issue. I can't stand to see the pictures of the massacres, yet I look at them every day. I know many people who feel as helpless as I do about the possibility of doing something to stop it.

[Spy Car]

Sure, on the one hand, you have people who want to turn the US into a deeply conservative theocracy, and on the other hand horror, abject horror that a Muslim with the slightest bit of interest in their own religion could ever be in power in a country of 90%+ Muslims. It becomes part of the same song of Christian oppression at home and abroad.

 

First, I'm sure you must recognize that a large majority of Americans look at the aspirations of those who desire to turn our nation into a deeply conservative theocracy with disquietude.

 

Second, to arrive at a 90% Muslim figure in Syria one would need to include Druze, Shia (of both the Twelver and Sevener varieties) and—most especially—the ruling Alawite minority in the calculations. The fact is many (most) Sunni do not accept the Alawi, the Druze, or (to a slightly less great extent) the Ismāʿīlī or Imami Shiites as Muslims. Instead these groups are largely seen apostates and heretics. This fact is at the core of the communitarian strife in Syria.

 

Further the Sunni population is split between ethic Arabs and ethic Kurds, each of whom have their own divergent interests. Split out the Kurds and the Arab Sunni population is about 58% of the population. A majority? Sure. But not 90%+. And it is a population that is deeply conservative, tribal, one that presents an opportunity for recruitment for "jihadis," one that has legitimate pent-up anger towards the Assad regime and its supporters, and considering this an impartial observer has to recognize the outcome of Syrian Revolution is unlikely to bring Jeffersonian Democracy.

 

Revolutions can be bloody affairs. It seems to me that the world community—the USA included—is doing the best possible to reduce the government's ability to strike with impunity by moving in material to rebel groups, while at the same time not stoking the violence or directly intervening militarily. It is a tricky balance to pull off, but I don't see how the world community could do much better under the reality of the circumstances.

 

I think it's that people don't think there is anything other than military intervention that can accomplish anything, and there is fatigue over that, and better to just go back to one's own business. Rather like hearing the neighbor beating his wife. Just turn on the tv to drown out the sounds of her screams, tsk tsk about it, and hope one day it will stop. Because, you know, those people don't have the same values we do. That's just "their way." And maybe it's better they have a dictator anyway. A dictator is safe and predictable. Unlike democracy, which is totally the most important thing ever in the whole world....for us.

 

Except we (and that is a big "we" that envelops most of the community of nations, Iran not included) are attempting solutions other than direct military intervention. Diplomatic efforts are ongoing (if not notably successful to date) and both humanitarian and military aid is reaching refugees and rebels.

 

I don't think anyone would prefer that the dictator Assad would remain in power. Even the Russians—traditionally the Syrian government's biggest backer outside Iran—has pretty much given up on Assad.

 

This doesn't mean there aren't concerns about what comes next.

 

Bill

Edited September 6, 2012 by Spy Car

[ShannonS]

nm

Edited September 7, 2012 by ShannonS

[Kate in Arabia]

Second, to arrive at a 90% Muslim figure in Syria one would need to include Druze, Shia (of both the Twelver and Sevener varieties) and—most especially—the ruling Alawite minority in the calculations. The fact is many (most) Sunni do not accept the Alawi, the Druze, or (to a slightly less great extent) the Ismāʿīlī or Imami Shiites as Muslims. Instead these groups are largely seen apostates and heretics. This fact is at the core of the communitarian strife in Syria.

I don't know that I agree with you there, Bill. The Sunnis are a clear majority, even after grouping the others together. It is almost a mirror of Bahrain, also experiencing civil unrest, where the minority Sunnis are ruling over a Shi'a majority. Is it really, at its core, an issue of the Sunnis thinking the Shi'a are religiously wrong? (or the Shi'a thinking the Sunnis are wrong, in Bahrain?) Or is it a majority not wanting to be ruled, or considering themselves oppressed by, the minority? Or is it a furtherance of historical record, in a area that has seen a regular cycle of a Shi'a dynasty overthrown by a Sunni dynasty overthrown by a Shi'a dynasty overthrown by...

 

I don't have any answers, but I personally, jmo, don't think there is one overriding issue at its core - I think that it's a mix of very serious issues that, unfortunately, have led to violence and unrest in many areas in my part of the world... which makes it all the more difficult to try and come up with a solution.

[Lisbeth]

I think some Americans are tired of being vilified around the world on the one hand, but then being expected to sacrifice our military and money on the other. Also the Arab Spring was a disaster. I am so afraid for Egyptian women.

[Rosie_0801]

I think some Americans are tired of being vilified around the world on the one hand, but then being expected to sacrifice our military and money on the other.

 

Expected is an interesting word. By whom?

 

Rosie

[mom2scouts]

I'm willing to bet that half the people in the US don't even know the location of Syria. Also, I think people tend to pay attention to what the media brings in front of them every day and Syria isn't getting much coverage.

[Spy Car]

I don't know that I agree with you there, Bill. The Sunnis are a clear majority, even after grouping the others together. It is almost a mirror of Bahrain, also experiencing civil unrest, where the minority Sunnis are ruling over a Shi'a majority. Is it really, at its core, an issue of the Sunnis thinking the Shi'a are religiously wrong? (or the Shi'a thinking the Sunnis are wrong, in Bahrain?) Or is it a majority not wanting to be ruled, or considering themselves oppressed by, the minority?

 

It is both things. You are quite right that (around the world, and through history) majorities chafe at being ruled over by minorities—especially despotic ones like the Assad family regime in Syria. This is not unique to divisions between between Sunni and Shia, nor Sunni vs Alawi. And, of course, minorities being oppressed by majorities is a historic problem as well.

 

My point was calling the Syrian population 90%+ "Muslim" is as misleading as calling the population of Northern Ireland 90%+ "White." It obscures the sectarian divisions at are at the core of the conflict. And there are sectarian issues at play in Syria.

 

My feeling is all the international actors involved (save countries like Iran) are attempting to end the Assad regime while trying to minimize bloodshed on either side. This strikes me as a good policy. I do think Assad's days are done.

 

Or is it a furtherance of historical record, in a area that has seen a regular cycle of a Shi'a dynasty overthrown by a Sunni dynasty overthrown by a Shi'a dynasty overthrown by...

 

In large part the conflict in Syria fits the pattern (especially if we class Alawi as Shi'a), but that does not undermine my point that there is a core sectarian-power problem to the conflict. The key for us—as Americans—is to work with the world community to ease the exit of Assad, to minimize civilian deaths and other atrocities, and to promote a responsible successional leadership.

 

Simply exchanging one form of despotism for another would be in no ones interest.

 

I don't have any answers, but I personally, jmo, don't think there is one overriding issue at its core - I think that it's a mix of very serious issues that, unfortunately, have led to violence and unrest in many areas in my part of the world... which makes it all the more difficult to try and come up with a solution.

 

You are absolutely correct that the situation is complex. There are issues of geography, urban vs rural issues, issues involving educational levels, secularism vs religion, and affinity (or disgust) with the Ba'ath Party—to name only a few.

 

Still, in a police-state like Syria—one repressively ruled by a member of a minority religion (even though the Assad's are largely "secularists")—the strands of division ultimately lead back to ones position in society relative to ones closeness to the Assad regime. This makes the divisions in Syria highly-charged between the Alawite ruling minority and its allies on one hand, and the (mostly Sunni) opposition on the other. Do the differences extend beyond matters of faith? Certainly yes.

 

Bill

[LibraryLover]

I think some Americans are tired of being vilified around the world on the one hand, but then being expected to sacrifice our military and money on the other. Also the Arab Spring was a disaster. I am so afraid for Egyptian women.

 

 

Here's a guide to that mess:

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring

Edited September 8, 2012 by LibraryLover