Funeral etiquette - mostly church related (Episcopalian)

[EmilyK]

I realize this may be a strange set of questions, but I don't have anyone in real life to ask, and I'm trying to figure some things out. Mrs Mungo and the hive were so helpful in connection with the "how-to" of arranging for military honors that I hoped I might get some advice here.

 

My dad died earlier this month, and his funeral is on Friday at the church he and my mother have been very involved in for the past 20+ years. Although I'm a cradle Episcopalian, I don't attend church much anymore, and don't belong to a church. I have been to a fair number of funerals as an adult, but they mostly either have been pretty casual (I live in the Pacific NW) or simple graveside ceremonies (my husband's family) so I'm a bit rusty on formal church funeral etiquette. I'm sure this is one of those "whatever you do will be fine, and no one will judge" situations - which is what my RL friends would say - but I'm spinning out on this (it is where I'm putting my stress) and it would help to get some advice.

 

So here are my questions:

 

1. Payment. My husband and I are paying for the funeral, for a variety of reasons. My mother - given her connection with the church and the time she's had to work on it since he died - has thankfully done the planning for the service and reception. I think she's enjoyed planning it in a way. (The cremation was done right after he died and my husband and I already took care of that. It was surprisingly reasonable to me.) She had the church give me an itemized statement. Questions:

 

A. Looks like I will have to write 6 to 8 checks. The church expenses can be aggregated into one check, but I need to pay the celebrants (there are 3), the organist, the singer, the caterer and the flower guild. Do I write these in advance and put them in envelopes? Do I include a thank you note? Do I need to hand them out? Can I ask my husband to help?

 

B. For the priests, it gives a suggested minimum donation. Do I give them more? One of the priests was my father's dear friend and was there for all his hospitalizations and death. How do you put a price tag on that?

 

C. There's a line on it to the effect of "a donation to the church is typical, but not required". I certainly want to do the right thing, which is probably to donate, which I'm fine with, but I have no idea of amount. The rector is reading the gospel and there's a notation that he will be donating his time, so I'm not paying him directly, but that makes me think I should donate more (?).

 

D. Do I just pay the organist and singer the stated amount?

 

E. For flyers, it says that the amount is to be arranged. Same with the caterer, though of course we pay her directly. We have been decided on numbers for about a week. On the flowers, it also says "to be arranged" and it is handled by an agreed upon donation to the Flower Guild. Is the Flower Guild the same as the church so that if I find out the amount, it is all the same check? How do I handle the fact that I don't know the amount? I told my mom that I'd prefer to know the amounts and have checks ready. She told me that there was no hurry to pay and that she and the flower woman were still in discussions. I wasn't sure she was getting where I was coming from - I'd like to know the costs beforehand (because it might affect the amount of the donation, and other practical reasons), and frankly I'd like to pay the day of the funeral and be done with that aspect. I don't know any of these people other than my father's dear friend, and I don't attend there, so maybe this is a non issue for most parishioners, but it isn't for me.

 

I know my mom has felt very passive about pushing for things, even though that isn't normally her personality. Maybe it is a face thing? We got a fair amount of pushback from someone at the church about the military honors and I know she felt very uncomfortable pushing them. She also is very sensitive to doing something that is at all bad form.

 

One final data point which may be irrelevant is that I heard through the grapevine that the funeral coordinator (who sent me the bill) was really frustrated at the mixed signals and change orders she felt she was getting. Unclear if it was from the different priests or my mom, or both. This was in the context of the military honors issue.

 

II. Attire. Do we wear black suits? I bought my oldest one just in case (he loves dressing up) and my younger son has hand-me-downs that he can wear. The last/only formal funeral I've been to as an adult I wore a black blazer and pencil skirt, with a blouse underneath. Is that okay?

[Starr]

Are you working with a funeral home or just making the arrangements with the church yourself?

[Ellie]

I

II. Attire. Do we wear black suits? I bought my oldest one just in case (he loves dressing up) and my younger son has hand-me-downs that he can wear. The last/only formal funeral I've been to as an adult I wore a black blazer and pencil skirt, with a blouse underneath. Is that okay?

It is never wrong to dress formally for a funeral, especially for the funeral of one's father or grandfather, KWIM? Yes, your black blazer and skirt would be fine.

[EmilyK]

Are you working with a funeral home or just making the arrangements with the church yourself?

 

Just making the arrangements with the church ourselves. The funeral home did the cremation and is delivering the ashes to the church (where they will be interred), delivering the flag for the military honors to the church, arranged for the military honors, but then they are done. My husband took the lead in dealing with the funeral home. All the stuff on the day of the funeral itself was arranged by my mother, mostly with the church's funeral coordinator and the priest who is the main celebrant.

[EmilyK]

It is never wrong to dress formally for a funeral, especially for the funeral of one's father or grandfather, KWIM? Yes, your black blazer and skirt would be fine.

 

Thanks, that helps. I'm an only child and these are the only grandchildren, so I want to be correct, but don't have peers in this. (I do have some wonderful cousins who will be coming in.)

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm Lutheran, but I know formal. So here goes:

 

Black is proper and all but required for the family.

Technically, dark, somber, non-black should be worn by non-family, but so few people know that that wearing black is rampant. I think you will look odd if you do not.

 

Technically those checks are all gifts. Definitely give more than the minimum, especially to the priest who was friends with your dad--he should get the most. Also, give more to the church than to that priest--probably about twice as much. Put a thank you note with each check. Write them in advance. Give them out at the funeral as you thank each for his service. They will not open them until later. Do not expect thank you notes for that.

 

Thank you notes should also be written for anyone who brings or sends flowers. It is considered nice but not essential to thank those who just attend as well--I imagine that you will have a guest book and a basket where people can sign in and leave condolence cards.

[EmilyK]

I'm Lutheran, but I know formal. So here goes:

 

Black is proper and all but required for the family.

Technically, dark, somber, non-black should be worn by non-family, but so few people know that that wearing black is rampant. I think you will look odd if you do not.

 

Technically those checks are all gifts. Definitely give more than the minimum, especially to the priest who was friends with your dad--he should get the most. Also, give more to the church than to that priest--probably about twice as much. Put a thank you note with each check. Write them in advance. Give them out at the funeral as you thank each for his service. They will not open them until later. Do not expect thank you notes for that.

 

Thank you notes should also be written for anyone who brings or sends flowers. It is considered nice but not essential to thank those who just attend as well--I imagine that you will have a guest book and a basket where people can sign in and leave condolence cards.

 

Thanks, and I didn't mean only Episcopalians answer! I was only trying to give context. Thanks for all these thoughts -- I meant to add "what else am I missing?" as number 3.

[Starr]

I think you can give the checks to the funeral coordinator when you arrive or before if you're in the area. Notes are nice if you feel something special is done. Like maybe to the Priest that is their friend. Your black suit will be perfect. And the kids clothes sound fine too. You have quite a crew for this service.If your Mom won't give you amounts I would call myself. You don't want to worry about this during the service. :grouphug:

[Unicorn.]

The dead don't care what you wear. The fact that you loved and cared enough to show up and pay your respects is all that matters.

[Ellie]

The dead don't care what you wear. The fact that you loved and cared enough to show up and pay your respects is all that matters.

Of course the dead don't care what you wear.

 

To dress in a formal shows respect. That's what the others who are attending the funeral will see: respect.

[Elizabeth in MN]

Okay, I am also a cradle Episcopalian and my mother is a minister in the church. I called her up and asked her these questions and did my best to type them up. If you want more help or have more questions we'd be happy to help you in any way we can.

 

I'm sure this is one of those "whatever you do will be fine, and no one will judge" situations

 

This, exactly.

 

A. Looks like I will have to write 6 to 8 checks. The church expenses can be aggregated into one check, but I need to pay the celebrants (there are 3), the organist, the singer, the caterer and the flower guild. Do I write these in advance and put them in envelopes? Do I include a thank you note? Do I need to hand them out? Can I ask my husband to help?

 

Having three celebrants is very unusual. Yes, the checks to the organist, the singer, the caterer and the Flower Guild should all be separate. Normally everyone but the FG are from outside the church, so you can view them as contractors. Thank you notes are a great thing to do. You can hand them out, or give them all to the minister and s/he passes them out.

 

B. For the priests, it gives a suggested minimum donation. Do I give them more? One of the priests was my father's dear friend and was there for all his hospitalizations and death. How do you put a price tag on that?

 

It's exactly what it says, a suggested minimum donation. Give as much as you feel comfortable with. Most people give the minimum. As for the dear friend, you can't put a price on it. You can thank him with a card.

 

C. There's a line on it to the effect of "a donation to the church is typical, but not required". I certainly want to do the right thing, which is probably to donate, which I'm fine with, but I have no idea of amount. The rector is reading the gospel and there's a notation that he will be donating his time, so I'm not paying him directly, but that makes me think I should donate more (?).

 

So none of the celebrants are the current rector? Curious. As your father was a member of the church there really should not be a charge for the use of the church. It's actually very unusual that the ministers/rectors/priests are charging for their time for a person who was a member of the church.

 

D. Do I just pay the organist and singer the stated amount?

 

Yes.

 

E. For flyers, it says that the amount is to be arranged. Same with the caterer, though of course we pay her directly. We have been decided on numbers for about a week. On the flowers, it also says "to be arranged" and it is handled by an agreed upon donation to the Flower Guild. Is the Flower Guild the same as the church so that if I find out the amount, it is all the same check? How do I handle the fact that I don't know the amount? I told my mom that I'd prefer to know the amounts and have checks ready. She told me that there was no hurry to pay and that she and the flower woman were still in discussions. I wasn't sure she was getting where I was coming from - I'd like to know the costs beforehand (because it might affect the amount of the donation, and other practical reasons), and frankly I'd like to pay the day of the funeral and be done with that aspect. I don't know any of these people other than my father's dear friend, and I don't attend there, so maybe this is a non issue for most parishioners, but it isn't for me.

 

To be arranged depends on the flowers and amount of them. The Flower Guild is part of the church but normally they have a different checking account so they need their own check. The Flower Guild is different from the Florist, so there may or may not be a check for each of them - it depends on the Flower Guild. Normally the FG finds out what flowers are wanted and fetch them from the Florist and the bill from the FG covers the cost of the flowers.

 

The flyers are also a to be decided thing. Are you going to have the traditional two pages that just tells people which hymns to sing and where to go in the BCP? Or is it going to be a twenty page booklet in color with photos. That's why the price isn't set yet.

 

I know my mom has felt very passive about pushing for things, even though that isn't normally her personality. Maybe it is a face thing? We got a fair amount of pushback from someone at the church about the military honors and I know she felt very uncomfortable pushing them. She also is very sensitive to doing something that is at all bad form.

 

Normally military honors are done at the graveside (shooting guns inside a church tends to cause damage *smile*). I'm sorry that someone gave you grief for wanting them, but your father earned them and should have them.

 

Your Mom is grieving right now and has lost her right hand man, so to speak. Since she's had your father next to he for so long she's likely feeling a little unsteady on her feet. This may be part of why she;s not pushing so hard.

 

One final data point which may be irrelevant is that I heard through the grapevine that the funeral coordinator (who sent me the bill) was really frustrated at the mixed signals and change orders she felt she was getting. Unclear if it was from the different priests or my mom, or both. This was in the context of the military honors issue.

 

This is normal. It's often chaotic behind the scenes as people change their minds on this or that, or if something is normally done one way and an exception is being made in this case to do it another.

 

II. Attire. Do we wear black suits? I bought my oldest one just in case (he loves dressing up) and my younger son has hand-me-downs that he can wear. The last/only formal funeral I've been to as an adult I wore a black blazer and pencil skirt, with a blouse underneath. Is that okay?

 

Yes, wear black. My experience is that not many other people will but it's the right thing to do. Yes, what you suggest sound great to wear.

[Unicorn.]

My point was that you don't have to dress formal to show respect. The pallbearers at my dad's funeral wore dark blue jeans and white shirts, and so did the pallbearers at my friend's father's funeral. My son wore dark jeans and a polo to both his grandfather's funerals. And yes, they were all in church. Most people aren't as "formal" nowdays. I don't care what people wear, and don't even notice. What I notice is that they came. I just wanted the OP to realize she didn't have to rush out and buy new outfits for everyone.

[Elizabeth in MN]

My point was that you don't have to dress formal to show respect. The pallbearers at my dad's funeral wore dark blue jeans and white shirts, and so did the pallbearers at my friend's father's funeral. My son wore dark jeans and a polo to both his grandfather's funerals. And yes, they were all in church. Most people aren't as "formal" nowdays. I don't care what people wear, and don't even notice. What I notice is that they came. I just wanted the OP to realize she didn't have to rush out and buy new outfits for everyone.

 

I noticed what people wore to my father's funerals. To me if they didn't care enough to get cleaned up and dressed up they didn't really care about sending off Dad. To me there were just mailing it in.

 

But I'm old-fashioned like that.

[EmilyK]

Wow, thanks Elizabeth in MN and everyone who replied. Y'all are saints for helping me on this. I know I "shouldn't" be spinning out on this, but it was where I was going. This has helped me have a path forward. I think I'll sleep tonight.

 

On the attire, of course Dad wouldn't care, but I want to do the right thing for my mom and her friends. It does end up being situation specific. My in-laws have had graveside burials in the South for relatives who've outlived their friends or died under difficult circumstances, and they haven't been "wear black" type things. But I think it is the right thing to do here.

 

Thanks for everyone who helped on the check specifics and such. I do think my mom is having a hard time without my dad -- when he was well, he handled things like this so well. I really want him here to help me out!:001_smile: He's been unwell a long time but I still think this is hard for her to figure out, despite being a very competent person generally. Of course, I'm wishing I didn't have to be the adult here. I'm not ready! But so it goes.

 

Thanks all for the help. Of course, if anyone has any additional thoughts, they are welcome too.

[EmilyK]

Okay, I thought of one follow up question if anyone is still listening. I'd really rather take the checks in envelopes with thank you notes and give them to folks with my thanks at the service.

 

What do I do with the 3 issues that I haven't been given a number on?

-- Caterer. I don't know her -- my mom's friends have been arranging and she does a lot at the church. Should I ask my mom for her contact info? If mom doesn't have it, do I try to find out how to reach the friends and then ask them how to reach the caterer?

 

-- Flower guild. Again, don't know the woman in charge. Glad to know it is probably a separate checking account and will do a check, but don't know the amount.

 

-- The flyers. As someone alluded above, I was assuming it was a short leaflet. Saw a PDF last night and it is lovely but long -- several pictures, the whole service and reading laid out. Very meaningful, but I assume it will cost more. That's fine -- what my mother wants, and a nice thing for family history -- but is it gauche to ask someone for a price so that I can write the checks? Ask the funeral coordinator?

 

Thanks for any thoughts if anyone is listening Thursday.

[Elizabeth in MN]

What do I do with the 3 issues that I haven't been given a number on?

 

In all cases you should ask your mother for contact information so you can get the amounts. However, the Flower Guild can't give a price until the flowers are picked.

[EmilyK]

In all cases you should ask your mother for contact information so you can get the amounts. However, the Flower Guild can't give a price until the flowers are picked.

 

Thanks again -- that's what I did.

[Entropymama]

I'm not Episcopalian, but I was raised Catholic. I'm fairly certain that churches usually have a 'point person' for this kind of thing. If you called the church office and asked they might be able to connect you with someone who could answer all these questions specifically.

[EmilyK]

I'm not Episcopalian, but I was raised Catholic. I'm fairly certain that churches usually have a 'point person' for this kind of thing. If you called the church office and asked they might be able to connect you with someone who could answer all these questions specifically.

 

Thanks so much. I did email the funeral coordinator with some follow up questions today, and she said she'd find out some pricing info so I'd have some more information by the end of the day.

[Ellie]

I noticed what people wore to my father's funerals. To me if they didn't care enough to get cleaned up and dressed up they didn't really care about sending off Dad. To me there were just mailing it in.

 

But I'm old-fashioned like that.

Exactly.

[Dobela]

Wow, thanks Elizabeth in MN and everyone who replied. Y'all are saints for helping me on this. I know I "shouldn't" be spinning out on this, but it was where I was going. This has helped me have a path forward. I think I'll sleep tonight.

 

On the attire, of course Dad wouldn't care, but I want to do the right thing for my mom and her friends. It does end up being situation specific. My in-laws have had graveside burials in the South for relatives who've outlived their friends or died under difficult circumstances, and they haven't been "wear black" type things. But I think it is the right thing to do here.

 

Thanks for everyone who helped on the check specifics and such. I do think my mom is having a hard time without my dad -- when he was well, he handled things like this so well. I really want him here to help me out!:001_smile: He's been unwell a long time but I still think this is hard for her to figure out, despite being a very competent person generally. Of course, I'm wishing I didn't have to be the adult here. I'm not ready! But so it goes.

 

Thanks all for the help. Of course, if anyone has any additional thoughts, they are welcome too.

I was an adult when my grandfathers died so I was able to notice a lot about my grandmothers left grieving. One grandmother became almost child like in her decision making. Even though she had been independent, opinionated, and free spirited, her grief was so great that she just couldn't focus on much else. She was so sad and lonely that really, she really didn't care about anything else anymore. NO decision was important. My other grandmother had run their farm and business, yet suddenly couldn't remember how to write a check in the early stages of grief and would get lost driving to places she had been driving to for over 50 years. Her doctor called it 'grief dementia' and said it would pass over time. It effects everyone differently. The first year was the toughest by far. One grandmother was doing much better after that, the other took more like 4 years to be more of her 'old self'.

[Ferdie]

:grouphug:Just wanted to say bless your heart for handling all this. :grouphug:

[Carol in Cal.]

 

What do I do with the 3 issues that I haven't been given a number on?

-- Caterer. I don't know her -- my mom's friends have been arranging and she does a lot at the church. Should I ask my mom for her contact info? If mom doesn't have it, do I try to find out how to reach the friends and then ask them how to reach the caterer?

 

Comment: This is extremely touchy, in my experience. The caterer may feel that she is doing this as a service to the church. Or she may feel that she is doing this as a service to your family. Or she may not be a single person, but rather the 'women's group' at the church. In those circumstances, there is no charge per se. A donation is made to the women's guild or to the church in the name of the caterer. Or if you suspect that this is an extraordinary effort on the part of the caterer, you can write her a check, with a thank you note that says, this is in thanks for the tremendous amount of work that you did in our very difficult circumstances. It pales in comparison to your efforts, but please accept this token of our appreciation. Or, 'a donation in your name has been made to .... at the church, in gratitude for your ...'

 

You have to kind of feel this out. I know it's a pain, but this is community life. Someone there knows 'what is normal' and you have to tease it out.

 

-- Flower guild. Again, don't know the woman in charge. Glad to know it is probably a separate checking account and will do a check, but don't know the amount.

 

Flower guild: Thankfully, this is normally a 'set charge' thing. Ask for the amount. It would be gracious to give a little more.

 

-- The flyers. As someone alluded above, I was assuming it was a short leaflet. Saw a PDF last night and it is lovely but long -- several pictures, the whole service and reading laid out. Very meaningful, but I assume it will cost more. That's fine -- what my mother wants, and a nice thing for family history -- but is it gauche to ask someone for a price so that I can write the checks? Ask the funeral coordinator?

 

In our churches, there would be no charge for this if it was printed by the church. If it was printed outside, you would be organizing this yourself and just pay the bill. So maybe this is not one to worry about.

 

Thanks for any thoughts if anyone is listening Thursday.

 

(())

[Dobela]

What do I do with the 3 issues that I haven't been given a number on?

-- Caterer. I don't know her -- my mom's friends have been arranging and she does a lot at the church. Should I ask my mom for her contact info? If mom doesn't have it, do I try to find out how to reach the friends and then ask them how to reach the caterer?

Here, in the south, the church caterer is the person who calls a bunch of people, and then all the people cook up a bunch of food for the family for free. As a service to the family. I know you are not in the south though, but could that be what is happening? If so, she won't need to be paid unless you donate a small amount to the church fund that is paying for drinks, napkins, and such.

[Chris in VA]

Episcopalian churches are liturgical and more formal than many. Black is fine, but dark is ok, too, even if you are family.

I wore a dark blue dress to my brother's funeral and was appropriate. My sil wore a black suit.

 

I highly doubt the caterer in this case is "the women of the church." You would know that upfront if such were the case. Is there a meal being served? The women of the church may be helping, but they are not a catering company, so it sounds like something else is going on.

 

I've never seen a donation to each clergy member AND to the church. Paying the organist is normal, since the service is not the normal Sunday service. Paying for the flowers thru the guild is normal, too.

 

My husband does not set a price on his performance of the wedding or funeral services in our church. It's like advertising lawyers--a little "unseemly." But some do. He sees it as just part of his job. He would rather not do it on his day off, but has in the past.

 

The honorarium ($ to the priest) usually goes to his/her discretionary fund, to which he/she does not "help himself."

 

Please don't hand out envelopes at the end of the service. Do it before the day, if you can.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[elfgivas]

:grouphug: you're grieving. all of the people who need cheques work with people who are grieving. they will understand what you are going through and will offer grace and compassion. :grouphug:

 

while i was in parish ministry in the 90s, this is what was typical:

 

- checks for musicians are in the amount requested. its a fee for service thing, unless they are friends of the family.

 

- clergy amounts are usually standard, and stated. where i have been, the funeral homes collected the cheques, and gave them out to the respective people. one funeral home simply collected a lump sum, and they cut the cheques and delivered them. i'd ask the funeral home how they usually handle it. it is done this way to help the family be free to grieve rather than worry about the nuts and bolts.

 

- most churches don't charge church members to use the church for funerals. again, i'd ask. the church should have a policy. the church secretary should know.

 

- most clergy don't charge to bury members of their congregation. most funeral homes include a clergy cost in the bill anyway, because often the folks aren't members of a congregation. i'd ask the secretary. she should know. however, if none of the clergy are the ones currently serving the parish, the standard fee should be offered (and should be declined, but one never knows.)

 

the church secretary should also know about the catering.

 

if you end up writing all the cheques, you could give them to a cousin to deliver to the appropriate people. it would give them a role, and free you to grieve. thank you notes a week after the service are fine, and often more meaningful as you can comment on what actually happened.

 

:grouphug:

ann

[EmilyK]

Thanks to everyone. It is really helpful. In case anyone is still reading:

 

--the military honors are just two Air Force people who will fold and hand the flag to my mother, and play taps on a boombox if desired. Wonderful, wonderful that they will do it but we're not talking about guns going off in the sanctuary or anything. We can't do it at the graveside because his ashes are being interred at the church.

 

-- I guess I'm concerned about the "don't hand the envelopes out at the service" though I do appreciate the input from someone who would know, Chris. I can't get over there today to give them to all the folks, plus I don't think they are all there today. It did seem cleaner to pay people at the reception. I'll have to wing it and maybe get more info from church folks.

 

-- The caterer is charging. It isn't a "church ladies" type thing, though many of my mom's friends are I'm sure helping with general set up and at the reception. But the food provider does it for a living. I now have her name and a per person amount, and I know how many she was told to plan for, so I can multiply that. It just seems odd not to have an invoice or some such, which I have usually had when I have arranged for catering before.

 

-- I've gathered more information about the flowers. I take it you pay the flower guild an amount that covers the actual flowers plus some amount. That's still under discussion.

 

-- The funeral home while wonderful is now out of the situation, having delivered the ashes and the flag. I think I'm having more problems since there's this division of labor between my mother (who's deciding things, and is a parishioner, and is content to let things roll and see how they play out) and me who is paying and is finding this much more confusing that the business parties I have planned.

 

-- The church is charging various fees which is fine and spelled out (arrangement fee; photocopying leaflets; interring ashes fee; plaque for ashes; maybe one other I am forgetting). The only stress with what I pay the church itself is that I have to decide how much money to donate in addition to all of the set fees.

 

Chris, I hear you about the discretionary fund. That's what I remember from my wedding and my kids' (private) baptisms. This isn't being depicted as such, and one of the priests is retired. I don't care, however -- however they spend it is fine, including on themselves. They were all so good to my dad. It is just this anxiety like tipping -- I don't want to pay too much or too little.

 

Thanks, everyone. This has been a lifesaver.