What to Do if someone is having a seizure?

[mom2bee]

During finals week at my school (for the main summer term) a student had a seizure in the study hall. Only one young woman noticed him and she began saying "Can someone call 911 for him, he's having a seizure." but at first no one noticed her, I heard her but it took me a moment to realize what she was saying as I'm hard of hearing. Finally she pointed to the guy having a seizure and I saw what she was saying.

 

I am prone to panicking really, really badly so I just got the attention of someone else, a school tutor who was nearby and told him the guy was having a seizure. About 13 people stood around watching and several of them had cell phones in their hands. NO ONE DIALED 911. Finally the receptionist returned to her desk and dialed someone.

 

Not one of the STUDENTS made a move to help the young man by calling on their cellphones. Not one. I was honestly disgusted with the lot of them. I do not HAVE a cell phone so I went to the lobby where there is a courtesy phone and phoned both 911 and campus police.

 

However, even though my school is across the street from a fire dept. and campus police are right there on campus, it still took several minutes for anyone to show up. I was more than a little panicked that someones child might be spasming to death in the midst of gawking strangers.I am assuming that no one knew what to do in that situation, I certainly have no idea how to help someone in that type of situation. Whenever someone collapses, the best I can do is run for help.

 

Some of the specialists (tutors above the regular tutors who have school authority) came to the young mans aid. I think they laid him down. (he was spasming in his chair before I called and when I got back he was lying down, still spasming.) someone was using a folder to fan him.

 

 

I'm now looking into becoming a certified first responder. If that had been my brother seizing on the ground, I'd have wanted someone--anyone, to help him.

 

As far as I know the young man was fine in the end, I think he both passed out and came to at school, by the time he came to EMT's were there and I think someone took his cell phone and called his mom. I know they put a cuff on his arm (blood pressure?), asked him some questions and looked in his eyes. As far as I know, he refused the ambulance and went home with his family...

 

I do not know what caused the seizure and I believe he is going to be just fine...

 

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? What should some one have done to help him until emergency technicians arrived?

 

I know this sounds selfish of me, but I don't want to continuously be useless in these types of situations, if something truly devastating such as death or brain-dead state had come out of this situation, I'd have felt bad for the rest of my life knowing that I did NOTHING to help.

 

This is the 4th time I've been around when someone needed help..

My grandfather collapsed, a friend had a psychotic break (we didn't know she was manic bipolar before hand) a woman fainted in the library and now a student had a seizure at school....

 

It being the weekend, I can't get in touch with my local chapter of the Red Cross until tomorrow sometime...

 

Sorry for rambling, I guess I just feel guilty about not doing anything and sad for the young man and a little sorry for my self....

 

I tried telling my sisters about this but they seem to think I'm over reacting...

[sassenach]

During finals week at my school (for the main summer term) a student had a seizure in the study hall. Only one young woman noticed him and she began saying "Can someone call 911 for him, he's having a seizure." but at first no one noticed her, I heard her but it took me a moment to realize what she was saying as I'm hard of hearing. Finally she pointed to the guy having a seizure and I saw what she was saying.

 

I am prone to panicking really, really badly so I just got the attention of someone else, a school tutor who was nearby and told him the guy was having a seizure. About 13 people stood around watching and several of them had cell phones in their hands. NO ONE DIALED 911. Finally the receptionist returned to her desk and dialed someone.

 

Not one of the STUDENTS made a move to help the young man by calling on their cellphones. Not one. I was honestly disgusted with the lot of them. I do not HAVE a cell phone so I went to the lobby where there is a courtesy phone and phoned both 911 and campus police.

 

However, even though my school is across the street from a fire dept. and campus police are right there on campus, it still took several minutes for anyone to show up. I was more than a little panicked that someones child might be spasming to death in the midst of gawking strangers.I am assuming that no one knew what to do in that situation, I certainly have no idea how to help someone in that type of situation. Whenever someone collapses, the best I can do is run for help.

 

Some of the specialists (tutors above the regular tutors who have school authority) came to the young mans aid. I think they laid him down. (he was spasming in his chair before I called and when I got back he was lying down, still spasming.) someone was using a folder to fan him.

 

 

I'm now looking into becoming a certified first responder. If that had been my brother seizing on the ground, I'd have wanted someone--anyone, to help him.

 

As far as I know the young man was fine in the end, I think he both passed out and came to at school, by the time he came to EMT's were there and I think someone took his cell phone and called his mom. I know they put a cuff on his arm (blood pressure?), asked him some questions and looked in his eyes. As far as I know, he refused the ambulance and went home with his family...

 

I do not know what caused the seizure and I believe he is going to be just fine...

 

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing? What should some one have done to help him until emergency technicians arrived?

 

I know this sounds selfish of me, but I don't want to continuously be useless in these types of situations, if something truly devastating such as death or brain-dead state had come out of this situation, I'd have felt bad for the rest of my life knowing that I did NOTHING to help.

 

This is the 4th time I've been around when someone needed help..

My grandfather collapsed, a friend had a psychotic break (we didn't know she was manic bipolar before hand) a woman fainted in the library and now a student had a seizure at school....

 

It being the weekend, I can't get in touch with my local chapter of the Red Cross until tomorrow sometime...

 

Sorry for rambling, I guess I just feel guilty about not doing anything and sad for the young man and a little sorry for my self....

 

I tried telling my sisters about this but they seem to think I'm over reacting...

:grouphug: It's hard to feel so helpless. Your plan of getting certified by the RC sounds like a solid one.

 

It doesn't sound like there was anything more to be done in that situation. There really is nothing you can do to stop a seizure. Moving him to the ground was smart. I'm glad to hear that nobody tried to shove anything in his mouth (big no-no). The best you can do is lay the person on their side and make sure that there's nothing close by that they can bang into and hurt themselves.

 

The fact that he refused transport tells me that this isn't a new thing to him and he probably just needs a med adjustment. Most seizures don't cause damage in themselves, though they can be a sign of a bigger problem. They're scary to watch.

 

I have a son who has daily seizures, so while I've become quite accustomed to them, I can understand how jarring they can be to witness.

[Joanne]

Old school ideas about seizures are not recommended, such as restraining or putting something in their mouths.

 

I just finished a Red Cross CPR certification, and the current recommendations are give the seizing person a safe space (as possible) and to stay out of the way.

[NittanyJen]

Generally, remove sharp objects from the area if the person is in danger of impaling himself-- he cannot control his actions. If he is on a hard surface and you can slip a jacket or thin blanket under his head, do so. Never, ever place anything between the person's teeth "to protect his tongue;" or "keep him from swallowing his tongue.". You will merely create a probable choking hazard and chipped teeth. If the person is in a swimming pool with a concrete deck, just work to keep his head above water; do not attempt to remove him from the pool while he is seizing or permit anyone else to do so either. There is far greater risk of injury from the pool sides (striking the head) than from drowning.

 

While I would never call seizures harmless, the vast majority will resolve in under 3 minutes, most of the rest in under 5. As frightening as they are to witness, do not panic or do much to manage to person other than making the environment as safe as possible. Calling 911 is not wrong, particularly in an individual not known to be epileptic. If a seizure lasts over five minutes, the person may have entered 'status epilepticus' (whoops, may have gotten that second word wrong) which is a medical emergency.

 

After a seizure, the 'post-ictal' phase, the person may feel any of fatigued, terrified, frightened, confused, or normal, depending upon their seizure, type of epilepsy, and personal response. There will frequently be no memory of the attack, but rest is in order.

 

In any emergency situation, always designate a SPECIFIC person to a specific action: YOU, Johnny, dial 9-1-1. Samantha, go get the supervisor. Timothy, stand at the street entrance doors and be ready to show the EMT's which classroom we are in. Susan, go to my car and get the first aid blanket.

 

That specificity goes quite a long way toward breaking group paralysis. Most people are anxious to help, but don't know what to do, or can't agree upon who is in charge, or they mount a disorganized response, leaving key tasks like calling 911 or leading the EMT's to the site undone.

 

Hope that helped!

 

Kudos to you for wanting to become more informed and better prepared. A great first step would be to become first aid, CPR, and AED certified. This will boost your confidence quickly, give some practical skills, and the training is widely available at libraries, athletic clubs, hospitals, PT clinics, YMCA, and other locations. You can probably call your local Red Cross to find or set up training near you.

[acablue]

Seizures are very, very hard to watch. :grouphug:

 

I've witnessed several seizures, and really the best you can do is lay the person on the ground and put something soft under their head. It's not necessary to call an ambulance unless the seizure lasts more than 5 minutes, or they have more than one seizure in a row. It's possible that the students knew this, but I think a lot of people just freeze up in the moment and hope someone else handles the situation. Of course, there's nothing wrong with calling an ambulance just to be on the safe side.

[kalanamak]

Turn them on their side so that they won't aspirate any vomit or saliva. I prefer turning on their left side, if possible, because of the way the stomach curves.

 

Remove sharp objects, etc. Something soft under the head if the surface is hard.

 

Unless I knew the person, I would call 911. A stranger could have a history of very severe seizures that have to be medically "broken" or could be acutely ill with something. If I knew the person usually had a 3 minute seizure and then started acting gorky, and was finally coherent in 10, I'd watch for that pattern.

Also, if it was a stranger, I'd look for med alerts or in their wallet.

 

You might want to read up on Bystander Effect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

 

It is the reason I always call myself, and never rely on "someone else" to do it, unless someone says clearly states they are going to call right now.

[sheryl]

Several things come to mind.

 

You are NOT being selfish to want to learn and assist in the future should the need arise. You should NOT feel guilty over what you "may" have done differently. Do not 2nd guess yourself.

 

Seizures are terrifying sometimes.

 

My 13 yo dd is an epileptic. Research my name with key words and you'll see several posts pertaining to such. Our dd had a grand mal at the end of our Th morning Bible Study. She was 7 years 10 months old at the time. The kids were finishing up their day by playing on the playground. It was there around 11:30 am that she had a grand mal. God was with her from the beginning - one of the Moms was an R.N!! She knew what to do and kicked into "caring" for my dd. What a blessing. There was another Mom there to assist the RN. This is a group with several hundred Moms and kids. As Moms were coming to get their kids, my dd had her grand mal. So, there were many Moms and kids all around. They came to get me (I was in the gym helping a kid's class). When I approached my dd, I broke down and did NOT handle it well. First time. The Moms were focused on caring for my dd and many Moms consoled me as well. I was almost hysterical. I should have handled it better.

 

You would call 911 first. I've come to find out from the nurse and medical follow ups that you:

 

 

1. Do NOT give any food or water to person as they may choke

2. Lay them down on ground/floor, BUT they must lay on their side to avoid swallowing tongue

3. Additionally, keep head "slightly" elevated

4. Person will probably not remember much if anything of the time he was seizing

5. Speak slowly, whispering reassurance to the person

6. That person may experience incontinence

7. Notify family asap

 

It was a blessing that my dd's grand mal happened where it did and not while I was driving or she was riding her bike.

 

Do not blame yourself that you don't have a cell phone. The students, as much as I wish "one" of so many would have called 911, were probably in shock and maybe even scared.

 

You are right when you inferred that time is of the essence. For epileptics, time for treatment is paramount.

 

The boy (can't remember - it was a boy, right?) should NOT have declined going the hospital and should NOT have gone home. 911 was called for my dd and she went by ambulance to the hospital. She ran blood work and a ctscan. She went on to be subject to hundreds of petite mal seizures from Aug - Dec 2007 and with a new neurologist and med she became seizure-free Feb 2008! She remains so to this day. In fact, after all of this time, her dr started weaning her this past Tues. So far she is doing great and he expects her to remain seizure-free when "completely" OFF of all of her meds!!!!!!! Praising GOD!

 

This boy may have a future of continued seizures or he may not. If any person has "2" seizures they are defined as epileptic. Many people may experience 1 seizure and that is all. A friend of mine has a son who had 1 seizure in the dental chair and that's it. A young child may experience febrile seizures (infantile spasms) when a temperature is elevated.

 

Many people experience multiple seizures.

 

Some are controlled and some will not be.

 

There is much to learn, but time is so very important as well as a trip to the hospital to determine root cause. Do his parents have epilepsy? It can be hereditary. Did he receive trauma to the head? That can also cause seizures. There are many other scenarios.

 

I hope he will be monitored closely. There are many different types of symptoms that are present in the different types of seizures. Hopefully, he will go seek medical attention as a follow up. He may NEVER have another seizure, but he may.

 

HTH!!!

Edited July 23, 2012 by sheryl

[brehon]

Turn them on their side so that they won't aspirate any vomit or saliva. I prefer turning on their left side, if possible, because of the way the stomach curves.

 

Remove sharp objects, etc. Something soft under the head if the surface is hard.

 

Unless I knew the person, I would call 911. A stranger could have a history of very severe seizures that have to be medically "broken" or could be acutely ill with something. If I knew the person usually had a 3 minute seizure and then started acting gorky, and was finally coherent in 10, I'd watch for that pattern.

Also, if it was a stranger, I'd look for med alerts or in their wallet

 

As someone whose job it is to take care of people who have seizures (and many other types of medical/trauma issues) I heartily agree with the above bolded. If you don't know the person, call 911. Even if you see a med alert bracelet/necklace stating the patient has a history of szs or epilepsy. You don't know their "normal" seizure pattern. Yes, many people with a history of seizures will have a sz and then be "fine" after (or, at least, after their post-ictal period). I have regulars who routinely refuse transport to an ER after a seizure. However, it's usually strangers (to the patient) who call 911, not family/friends unless something is different about the sz. Also, be aware that even though most people who have a post-ictal period are generally lethargic/sleepy, some people can actually become violent after a sz. *ALWAYS* protect yourself and don't try to restrain someone unless you know how to do so safely. (In general, if you haven't had the training, you don't know how.)

[ktgrok]

This is why they say that in an emergency someone should point to a SPECIFIC person and say "YOU, call 911". If you just say "someone, call 911" everyone assumes someone else will do it.

 

As for seizures, it is my understanding that you just make sure they can't hurt themselves...so moving furniture away from them so they don't hit it, etc.

[speedmom4]

My son has epilepsy. Our neurologist has always said that any seizure over 5 minutes is an emergency and requires medical attention. There are medications that can be given in a hospital/ambulance setting to stop seizures.

 

I agree with others that if you don't know the person to go ahead and call 911. I would want someone to do that for my son if I wasn't there with him.

 

God Bless,

Elise in NC

[momacacia]

You could also locate the person's bag, backpack or purse and see if they carry an emergency anti-seizure med with them like Diazepam, eg, to have ready when the EMTs get there. It also helps to keep track of the length of the seizure, if possible.

[brehon]

You could also locate the person's bag, backpack or purse and see if they carry an emergency anti-seizure med with them like Diazepam, eg, to have ready when the EMTs get there. It also helps to keep track of the length of the seizure, if possible.

 

Eh, most paramedics will use their own medications (and in my system we have 2 we can use, depending on the circumstances). I know my meds are in-date and have been stored correctly. I don't know about someone else's meds. Same reason I give my nitro and not use the pt's. And, just as a technical detail, in my state EMTs cannot administer controlled medications, paramedics do.

[Mergath]

I have epilepsy. Had more grand mal seizures than I care to think about. :tongue_smilie:

 

All the advice so far is good. The only thing I'd add is to ask the inevitable throng of gawkers to clear out before the person having the seizure wakes up. When one has a seizure, it's fairly common to lose bladder control, and nothing is worse than waking up confused, wet, scared, and with no memory of what's going on, only to find a massive group of scared looking people staring at you like you're the town freak show.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Mergath

[A.Balaban]

You have received great advice so far.

 

If you do not know the person, I would always call EMT/911 just to be safe.

[momacacia]

Eh, most paramedics will use their own medications (and in my system we have 2 we can use, depending on the circumstances). I know my meds are in-date and have been stored correctly. I don't know about someone else's meds. Same reason I give my nitro and not use the pt's. And, just as a technical detail, in my state EMTs cannot administer controlled medications, paramedics do.

 

 

That's fine. My daughter carries her Diazepam with her. I have no doubt the "medical personnel" would use something they had . . . I'd still feel better if someone located the suppositories and had them at the ready if the seizure continued too long. I can't say I'd *expect* people nearby to administer them unless they were medical personnel or comfortable giving a suppository like that, but if the medics aren't there fast enough, maybe someone would be game to administer it to her. I would hope so in such a case. If not, at least it would be there and they would have known to look for it, and may have gained a little bit of her medical history. I hate to suggest online that someone would administer a drug to a complete stranger, but I view it like her epi-pen---hoping someone would locate it and use it if it were a life-threatening situation.

 

I'm just always amazed at how people completely freeze in a medical emergency. Maybe it's because I grew up with a Type I mom who had more than one hypo-/hyperglycemic event in the middle of the night. My dad would walk around trying to "figure out what to do," get her juice, etc., and she was clearly to the point of delirium. At 12yo or so I would be the one who would mention, "Ya know, now would be a good time to call 911!" Duh!:glare:

[MusicMama]

This is why they say that in an emergency someone should point to a SPECIFIC person and say "YOU, call 911". If you just say "someone, call 911" everyone assumes someone else will do it.

 

:iagree:

 

It's like announcing to your kids, "someone go clean the living room". Unless your kids are angelic, it probably won't happen until you look someone in the eye and say "YOU go clean the living room." Even then, you have to follow up. Same here, just everyone is scared or morbidly curious. Assign someone, then follow up if you can.

 

And I totally agree, get those people outta there! There is nothing worse than having your pain and crisis observed by a group of gawking people. They are useless, and even worse, will clog up the way when the paramedics get there. Their tears/concerns will do nothing but make the whole situation worse. Refer them to the counselor's office if they are terribly grief stricken or afraid. But get them out!