Guest Xapis10 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I've seen so many positive reviews of Miquon and it's intriguing me. Just want to check if there are some negative things I'm missing :) This may be a silly question, but I'm wondering if Miquon has a website, since I haven't seen one. Googling Miquon takes me to Sonlight and other places that sell curriculum, but I would like to know about the person/people who made Miquon and their philosophies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I've seen so many positive reviews of Miquon and it's intriguing me. Just want to check if there are some negative things I'm missing :)This may be a silly question, but I'm wondering if Miquon has a website, since I haven't seen one. Googling Miquon takes me to Sonlight and other places that sell curriculum, but I would like to know about the person/people who made Miquon and their philosophies... It was made as the math program for the Miquon school. You can google that to find out more about the school. I'm starting my DD on it in the next few months, so I don't have much BTDT experience with it yet. Right now we're still in the "playing with c-rods" phase. Downsides that I can see so far: - It's not scripted or laid out in lessons at all. The Lab Annotations give you some ideas for what to do with each sheet, but you pretty much have to figure out how to teach it on your own. - There does not seem to be very much practice for the arithmetic facts. I expect I will want supplementation in those parts. - It depends heavily on cuisinaire rods. Some people/children do not like them, and if you don't like the c-rods you probably should find another program (they're pretty integral to Miquon). - It is very teacher-directed and requires a fair bit of effort from the teacher. - The lab sheets look very homemade. This is intentional, but might bother some. It does not have a polished, professional appearance at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tress Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 - It depends heavily on cuisinaire rods. Some people/children do not like them, and if you don't like the c-rods you probably should find another program (they're pretty integral to Miquon). This. I started Miquon with my olderst after she has finished SM1B. She didn't want to do anything with the c-rods. I figured I had started her too late. I started my second dd with Miquon, when she started SM1A. She didn't want to do anything with the c-rods. I figured I had started her too late. I started my third dd with Miquon, before starting SM Essentials K. Waaaay before. She didn't want to do anything with the c-rods. I'm letting my youngest dd use the c-rods as teething toys, you can't start earlier than that :lol:, but I would be very surprised if she took to it. Sigh. I really like Miquon (and I don't like to admit defeat :D), but I'm not seeing it happen here. ETA: I have read all the teacher books, I understand Miquon, I'm very mathy, my kids are mathy.....it still didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 If your child is absolutely not hands on - you didn't have to child-proof when s/he was a toddler, for example - then Miquon might not work. Calvin doesn't think through his hands at all, so the rods were irritating busy-work for him. A year learning maths in a Montessori school was a waste too. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 This. I started Miquon with my olderst after she has finished SM1B. She didn't want to do anything with the c-rods. I figured I had started her too late. I started my second dd with Miquon, when she started SM1A. She didn't want to do anything with the c-rods. I figured I had started her too late. I started my third dd with Miquon, before starting SM Essentials K. Waaaay before. She didn't want to do anything with the c-rods. I'm letting my youngest dd use the c-rods as teething toys, you can't start earlier than that :lol:, but I would be very surprised if she took to it. Sigh. I really like Miquon (and I don't like to admit defeat :D), but I'm not seeing it happen here. ETA: I have read all the teacher books, I understand Miquon, I'm very mathy, my kids are mathy.....it still didn't work. Lol, apparently you have some kind of anti-c-rod gene going on there... :D FWIW, my DD is madly in love with them. I have to do math last because I can't drag her away from the c-rods to do phonics. But I have heard rumors around here that some kids really don't like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tress Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Lol, apparently you have some kind of anti-c-rod gene going on there... :D :D I would be tempted to say it's a girl thing, but your daughter and lots of other little girls on this forum would prove me wrong. Sigh. It's great that your daughter loves them so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jennynd Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 :D I would be tempted to say it's a girl thing, but your daughter and lots of other little girls on this forum would prove me wrong. Sigh. It's great that your daughter loves them so much! My DD was up and down with c-rod. we use to introduce the concept. but soon she gets it, she refuse to use c rod. she like her fingers better. add/sub/multiply and division. she does all on fingers rather than c rod. I guess she figure it is more "portable" :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nono Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I think the Miquon materials were written up about 50 years ago, and I think the folks who wrote them are long retired. Hence, no website, as it was their passion, then, probably not now. ;) I don't find Miquon very c-rods oriented to the exclusion of other manipulatives esp. after the first book. My dd chooses whichever manipulatives she wants to accomplish the lesson. C-rods aren't usually her first choice. She likes them, but she'd rather build a dinosaur with them than figure out math. But when an exercise calls for c-rods, she has no issue using them. She gets the answer, and then I get a dinosaur. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craftyerin Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I spent some time browsing the website for the Miquon School the other day after wondering the same things. I, too, have no real experience yet. C-rods are still playthings for my 4-5yos, who love them, and I'm reading the Miquon teacher's materials myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The downside for me was trying to figure out "what to do", BUT... I do use C-rods with Singapore and LOVE THEM. I think the Miquon books just had too much "old 60's" about them that it couldn't get past my engineering brain. I dunno. :lol: I also like straightforward materials - teach this in this way. I don't feel like I should have to read a bunch of different books to figure out a program. All that said, C-rods have been perfect for my VSL middle son. My oldest son never wanted/needed manipulatives (they just slow him down), but my middle son needed that picture in his mind. In fact, he is 5.5 and has a good portion of his number bonds memorized already just from using C-rods with Singapore EM K and now 1A (we're a few weeks into that). My third child may not need the C-rods, but I'll at least have them available. Though his oldest brother is teaching him his multiplication tables, so I probably won't need to teach this kid math until he gets to algebra. :lol: Anyway, Miquon is cheap and easy to try out. Look on Amazon for USED copies of the Lab Annotations book (I think it's around $16 new, I paid $6 shipped used, and it was in excellent condition). The First Grade Diary is only about $6 new, and the Miquon workbooks themselves are around $5-6 each, IIRC (and you can get downloadable versions off currclick.com if you want to print for multiple kids... again, I think they are around $5 there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeganW Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The real downside is trying to figure out how to get started! The first few pages are SO weird. It is very easy to look at those, and put it aside as it is too intimidating. Push through - it's worth it! (The answers are in the Lab Annotations book, so don't let the first few pages get you stuck!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A home for their hearts Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Check out this vidoes at Education Unboxed She uses C-rods with all three of her girls and has a LOT of vidoes showing how they use them. Very helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Miquon is published by Key Curriculum; here's the website. Here's Miquon specifically. I used Miquon in my little one-room school, with one 7yo, two 8yo, two 9yo, and two 11yo children. I didn't find Miquon difficult to use; I just opened the Lab Notations to the first lesson (Orange Book), and followed directions...loose directions, but still...:-) I did Mathematics Made Meaningful first, because none of them were used to Cuinsenaire rods, and I thought it was important for them to be familiar with the rods first. The children loved the rods, and they seemed to enjoy MMM and Miquon, but after awhile the one-on-one-ness of Miquon wore me down: gently discuss the concenpt, wait while child ponders and replies or does something, gently discuss, wait, repeat repeat repeat. Possibly if I had been doing it with just my own dc, it wouldn't have felt that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A home for their hearts Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Miquon is published by Key Curriculum; here's the website. Here's Miquon specifically. I used Miquon in my little one-room school, with one 7yo, two 8yo, two 9yo, and two 11yo children. I didn't find Miquon difficult to use; I just opened the Lab Notations to the first lesson (Orange Book), and followed directions...loose directions, but still...:-) I did Mathematics Made Meaningful first, because none of them were used to Cuinsenaire rods, and I thought it was important for them to be familiar with the rods first. The children loved the rods, and they seemed to enjoy MMM and Miquon, but after awhile the one-on-one-ness of Miquon wore me down: gently discuss the concenpt, wait while child ponders and replies or does something, gently discuss, wait, repeat repeat repeat. Possibly if I had been doing it with just my own dc, it wouldn't have felt that way. Thanks for all the links Ellie! I'm planning on using Cuisenaire Rods with my dc this year but was lacking something with structure. I think MMM might just work for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristinannie Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I think the Miquon materials were written up about 50 years ago, and I think the folks who wrote them are long retired. Hence, no website, as it was their passion, then, probably not now. ;) I don't find Miquon very c-rods oriented to the exclusion of other manipulatives esp. after the first book. My dd chooses whichever manipulatives she wants to accomplish the lesson. C-rods aren't usually her first choice. She likes them, but she'd rather build a dinosaur with them than figure out math. But when an exercise calls for c-rods, she has no issue using them. She gets the answer, and then I get a dinosaur. :tongue_smilie: :iagree: I have heard so many people dislike Miquon on these boards. Just do a quick search and you can find a lot of negative opinions. I think the main problem is that people don't get the Lab Annotations, First Grade Diary, and the Teacher's Manual (I can never remember what it is called). They really are essential to understanding the program. The orange book does use the rods a lot. By the time you get done with that book, it becomes much easier to use the program independently. Most days, my son just does 1-2 pages on his own. I am amazed at his sheer understanding of how math works from this program. The kids take ownership of this information because they learned it themselves through carefully organized "experiments." Hence, it is called math lab. :001_smile: I think you really just need to try it to know if it will work for you. I absolutely love it, but not everyone does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xapis10 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I think the Miquon materials were written up about 50 years ago, and I think the folks who wrote them are long retired. I think the Miquon books just had too much "old 60's" about them that it couldn't get past my engineering brain. I dunno. I'm not sure what you mean by "old 60's?" Miquon is published by Key Curriculum; here's the website. Here's Miquon specifically. I did Mathematics Made Meaningful first, because none of them were used to Cuinsenaire rods, and I thought it was important for them to be familiar with the rods first. Thanks for the links and information Ellie! So I guess the author was Lore Rasmussen, a Jewish refugee from Nazi Germany. She married her sociology teacher. Does anyone know if Miquon has changed much over the 50 years or however long it has been? If so, would those changes be from the Miquon school, or from the publisher? What other math programs make a lot of use of c-rods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syllieann Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Does anyone know if Miquon has changed much over the 50 years or however long it has been? If so, would those changes be from the Miquon school, or from the publisher? My annotations book has a 1985 c and is the 3rd edition. I was scouring ebay to see what was available used and I didn't find any older editions or anything that even had a different pic on the cover. That's not to say there couldn't be changes in some of the material but I'd be rather surprised if it was significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 The kids take ownership of this information because they learned it themselves through carefully organized "experiments." Hence, it is called math lab. :001_smile: I think you really just need to try it to know if it will work for you. I absolutely love it, but not everyone does! :iagree: Does anyone know if Miquon has changed much over the 50 years or however long it has been? If so, would those changes be from the Miquon school, or from the publisher? What other math programs make a lot of use of c-rods? I would be really surprised if the program has changed much at all since it was first published. I don't know any other programs that use C-rods but the Education Unboxed videos are truly wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happypamama Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 If your child is absolutely not hands on - you didn't have to child-proof when s/he was a toddler, for example - then Miquon might not work. Laura :lol: I love it! Actually, we found it to be the opposite. My very hands-on child (the one who could defeat most any kind of lock or latch at a scarily young age) hated Miquon. No idea why, but she really didn't like it. She doesn't particularly like Saxon either, but its approach works better for her. I think she wasn't terribly interested in the "why" and exploration sort of thing that Miquon does a lot of; she didn't naturally see the patterns and all. The one of my four children for whom I did not have to do any child-proofing, because he was not into exploring, does well with Miquon. He doesn't always want to use the rods, but he likes the "what happens if you do X" sort of thing, and he sees the patterns and goes, "oh, it's Y because this one was X," and such all the time. He's very mathy and just seems to think mathematically. I think Saxon would probably bore him with the repetition, but he likes Miquon, and he liked the one lesson of Singapore we've done too (we're doing both Miquon and Singapore for him this year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscopup Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I'm not sure what you mean by "old 60's?" The workbooks themselves - the printing reminds me of stuff made in the 60's/70's. It's not modern graphics whatsoever. They have not changed the workbooks since the 60's, I'm sure. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 :iagree: I have heard so many people dislike Miquon on these boards. Just do a quick search and you can find a lot of negative opinions. I think the main problem is that people don't get the Lab Annotations, First Grade Diary, and the Teacher's Manual (I can never remember what it is called). They really are essential to understanding the program. The orange book does use the rods a lot. By the time you get done with that book, it becomes much easier to use the program independently. Most days, my son just does 1-2 pages on his own. I am amazed at his sheer understanding of how math works from this program. The kids take ownership of this information because they learned it themselves through carefully organized "experiments." Hence, it is called math lab. :001_smile: I think you really just need to try it to know if it will work for you. I absolutely love it, but not everyone does! There are three books: Notes to Teachers, Lab Sheet Notations, and First Grade Diary. The Lab Sheet Notations has the "specific instructions for using the children's lab [worksheets], teaching suggestions, and teaching anecdotes. It is a rich source and guide for creating additional mathematics materials." (from the web site). SpyCar loves the First Grade Diary; I was "meh" about them. Without the Lab Sheet Notations, all you have are just worksheets with no real instructions. You need those, but IMHO, the others are not vital. ::ducks from SpyCar:: I don't believe all children need to use manipulatives to be successful with math; but if I had children who do, Miquon would be my first choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 :iagree: I have heard so many people dislike Miquon on these boards. Just do a quick search and you can find a lot of negative opinions. I think the main problem is that people don't get the Lab Annotations, First Grade Diary, and the Teacher's Manual (I can never remember what it is called). They really are essential to understanding the program. The orange book does use the rods a lot. By the time you get done with that book, it becomes much easier to use the program independently. Most days, my son just does 1-2 pages on his own. I am amazed at his sheer understanding of how math works from this program. The kids take ownership of this information because they learned it themselves through carefully organized "experiments." Hence, it is called math lab. :001_smile: I think you really just need to try it to know if it will work for you. I absolutely love it, but not everyone does! I got the Lab Annotations, etc., and Miquon was STILL a total disaster in our house. My older dd didn't mesh with the way Miquon approaches math to the point that she decided she was just plain stupid in math, an attitude she held onto for nearly 10 years. On the other hand, she adored RightStart, which is also extremely hands on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 This. I started Miquon with my olderst after she has finished SM1B. She didn't want to do anything with the c-rods. I figured I had started her too late. I started my second dd with Miquon, when she started SM1A. She didn't want to do anything with the c-rods. I figured I had started her too late. I started my third dd with Miquon, before starting SM Essentials K. Waaaay before. She didn't want to do anything with the c-rods. I'm letting my youngest dd use the c-rods as teething toys, you can't start earlier than that :lol:, but I would be very surprised if she took to it. Sigh. I really like Miquon (and I don't like to admit defeat :D), but I'm not seeing it happen here. ETA: I have read all the teacher books, I understand Miquon, I'm very mathy, my kids are mathy.....it still didn't work. I know I've said this before, but Miquon worked just fine for my first two girls without ever using the rods. Despite what everyone says, they're not as central to Miquon as all that, and are barely used past the middle of the second (Red) book. Even Wee Girl, who did use the rods for the Orange book, was impatient with them by the end of it and didn't want to use them, even when the lesson called for them, through Red. In fact, her math benefited much more from using her plain wooden alphabet blocks to make rows and rectangles of various lengths. Heresy, but true. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xapis10 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Still enjoying all the replies... (can I say "thanks" too many times?) Related question: What is the overall philosophy of "eastern" style math? Are there a few "main styles" of math that can be read about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyR Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Downsides that I can see so far: - It's not scripted or laid out in lessons at all. The Lab Annotations give you some ideas for what to do with each sheet, but you pretty much have to figure out how to teach it on your own. - There does not seem to be very much practice for the arithmetic facts. I expect I will want supplementation in those parts. - It depends heavily on cuisinaire rods. Some people/children do not like them, and if you don't like the c-rods you probably should find another program (they're pretty integral to Miquon). - It is very teacher-directed and requires a fair bit of effort from the teacher. - The lab sheets look very homemade. This is intentional, but might bother some. It does not have a polished, professional appearance at all. :iagree: I've used this on and off throughout the years and have never been able to really make it work as a sole curriculum for math. Its worked really great as something to do on the side to break up the monotony of a math program we're already using. I think the reason being is that there is nothing that really takes you step by step on how to teach it. There is the Lab Annotations but its not a teacher's manual in any sense of the word. You really have to understand the methodology behind it for it to make sense. Not saying that there aren't those here that haven't used it with great success. But if Math is not your subject Miquon maybe tough to chizzle through because its not going to make a lick of sense to you. I do agree, not enough math practice. For us it was something fun to use on the side to make math time different, especially on those days where we needed to step back from what we were using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Martin Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I have all the books, but my son was never interested in it and taught himself the same material. I think the First Grade Diary is worth reading even if you don't use the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobC Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 All -- be careful. Homeschooling is not another word for 'my child just does what my child likes.' Just because a child doesn't 'like' to do something doesn't mean you don't have them work with the manipulatives. That said, Miquon is far more than C-rods (although C-rods are great). Miquon is an excellent presentation of core mathematical concepts. It is discovery-oriented, and the child will truly understand addition, place value, subtraction, fractions, functions, graphing, sets, distributive property, etc. BEFORE they just read a sterile definition. Miquon helps the child understand the concept because it guides the child in DISCOVERing the concept. Miquon should always be paired with another math program like Singapore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Crown Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 All -- be careful. Homeschooling is not another word for 'my child just does what my child likes.' Just because a child doesn't 'like' to do something doesn't mean you don't have them work with the manipulatives. Perhaps, but homeschooling is another word for "parent-directed education." And that means that if I understand a subject well, and know what is helpful for my child in learning that subject, then that may well entail that I don't have them work with the manipulatives, and even advise others that teaching the subject may work quite well that way. The curriculum materials are there to serve us, not we them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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