Non-Alcoholic beer and teenagers

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I remember as a kid getting a kick out of ordering a virgin Shirley Temple at a restaurant.

 

I didn't know there was an alcoholic version of a Shirley Temple! :confused: I used to order it as a kid for the Marciano cherries :D

[swellmomma]

I didn't know there was an alcoholic version of a Shirley Temple! :confused: I used to order it as a kid for the Marciano cherries :D

 

it is a mocktail for boys it was often called a Roy Rogers (which my dad still calls it). It was made to serve to kids instead of actual cocktails with the adults.

[TranquilMind]

My kids know this, we have discussed many times responsible drinking etc. On the other I do not want to promote drinking at a young age and worry that even non-alcoholic beer would be sending the message that drinking is okay at such a young age.

 

So I toss it out to the hive. If you are a family that does have a beer during a summer bbq from time to time (if you don't believe in alcohol period than this won't apply to you obviously), would you allow your almost 14 yr old son have 1 non alcoholic beer with the men folk? Why or why not?

 

No way in bloody you-know-what. Bunch of dead alcoholics in my history.

[Joker]

it is a mocktail for boys it was often called a Roy Rogers (which my dad still calls it). It was made to serve to kids instead of actual cocktails with the adults.

 

I was pretty sure that the Roy Rogers and the Shirley Temple are two seperate drinks and both are non-alcoholic.

 

To the original question, I don't really know if I would give it to him or not. I grew up in a home where we were allowed a glass of wine on holidays and at family bbqs we were allowed half a beer or so. Alcohol was just never a big deal and we never had any issues, but we also don't have a history of alcoholism.

[swellmomma]

I was pretty sure that the Roy Rogers and the Shirley Temple are two seperate drinks and both are non-alcoholic.

 

To the original question, I don't really know if I would give it to him or not. I grew up in a home where we were allowed a glass of wine on holidays and at family bbqs we were allowed half a beer or so. Alcohol was just never a big deal and we never had any issues, but we also don't have a history of alcoholism.

 

The only difference between the 2 is the Roy Rogers is made with cola, where the Shirley temple is made with 7-up or ginger ale. ANd yes both are non-alcoholic hence the term mocktail.

[TranquilMind]

I'd be super concerned about his developing the taste for it, since there are so many family members who have this addiction.

 

Exactly. It's a great tactic for those without this proclivity to give the kids a taste because they won't like it at first. No one actually loves the taste at first -it is an acquired taste.

 

The troubling part is the connotation that "men drink" and "I drink with the men". That coupled with many in the family who had issues makes this one simple for me.

[*Michelle*]

I don't think a Shirley Temple and a NA beer are really equivalent. One is a soda with some cherries and juice and a cute name. The other is a drink that looks, smells, and tastes like beer. Considering what you said about your son liking the taste of the real beer that was forced on him and the family history, I would not agree to giving him NA beer.

 

(I'm having a silly image in my head of kids sitting around drinking NA beer and smoking candy cigarettes, discussing class elections and Little League championships.)

[Teachin'Mine]

Interesting. Can you supply more information? Of course, my mind goes immediately to Inbev, which I think is the biggest brewer, and at least on a secondary level, would compete with a Coca-Cola, a mixer and non-alcoholic beverage supplier. I don't see Coca-Cola really being interested in priming the Inbev market, as it would diminish its own. Perhaps this is with smaller companies that aren't popping to mind?

 

I'll do some googling and see what I can find. I remember it was in the news years ago, but I can't remember the brand(s) specifically.

 

Here's one:

 

http://www.inthe80s.com/food/sundance0.shtml

 

If you read the comments, it gives good insight into how teens think about drinking these non-alcoholic look alikes.

 

Now after reading that, I think it was companies imitating wine coolers and not beer, but same concept. : P

 

 

Just wanted to add that I don't think there's anything wrong with an adult drinking non-alcoholic look alike drinks, or alcoholic ones for that matter either - as long as it's not a problem for them. It's those of the impressionable years that I feel differently about. : )

Edited June 6, 2012 by Teachin'Mine

[sparrow]

No, definitely not at 13. When he's a little older, maybe 16 or 17, I wouldn't have a problem allowing him to have a real beer with family. Some things you wait for and, in my opinion, 13 is too young, even for NA.

 

Buy him some IBC root beer and let him hang with the menfolk.

[nono]

 

If you read the comments' date=' it gives good insight into how teens think about drinking these non-alcoholic look alikes.

 

Now after reading that, I think it was companies imitating wine coolers and not beer, but same concept.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Hey thanks for the follow up. Having been in that part of the business world back in those days, that was more like Strohs flailing around for a lucky strike than a sinister plot. Trust me, Strohs didn't have a clear vision or direction, though they did have some fun ads.

 

I had totally forgotten about them. Thanks for the reminder. Made me smile (and realize how old I am).

[UnsinkableKristen]

The adults in the extended family certainly treat him like he is years younger than he is. Due to his special needs they like to talk to him and act like he is 6-7 rather than a youngman, coming of age kwim.

 

 

I think this is the issue, not the drinking. If the men in his life treat him like a child then it seems obvious that he would want to do something that would make them see him as more adult than they do.

 

Maybe the conversation should be less about what they are drinking and more about how they are treating him on a regular basis.

[Teachin'Mine]

Hey thanks for the follow up. Having been in that part of the business world back in those days, that was more like Strohs flailing around for a lucky strike than a sinister plot. Trust me, Strohs didn't have a clear vision or direction, though they did have some fun ads.

 

I had totally forgotten about them. Thanks for the reminder. Made me smile (and realize how old I am).

 

Glad it brought up good memories! :) I haven't had much luck in gooling, but it may be that I'm not using the right search words. It may have even been a 60 minutes or other news show piece about this, I'm not sure. But I remember them showing the similarity in the shape of the bottles and even the packaging of the bottles. I think they presented it as definitely a marketing attempt to woo younger drinkers. Again, I'm not sure of the company or companies involved. I do think it was more than one though.

[nono]

Again' date=' I'm not sure of the company or companies involved. I do think it was more than one though.[/quote']

 

Having been heavily involved with the brewers in the 80s/early 90s, then with some of the spirits companies in the very late 90s, my guess is that it was more on the spirits end of things (and the timeframe of your link makes sense for that). In fact, I think the Seagrams name is licensed back to Pepsi or Coke for mixers. They've had a lot more back and forth over the years, esp. since they mostly go hand-in-hand.

 

It's still so weird though that Strohs did that! It keeps randomly popping into my head and makes me chuckle.

[Chris in VA]

I'm going out on a limb here--

With the history of alcoholism in your family, I would also stop the mocktails.

It's fear-based for me--and that may be immature of me, I realize.

My own kids are loaded for bear, genetically, wrt alcoholism. We've chosen to keep a dry home, now that ds has developed full-blown alcoholism, because we just don't want to encourage drinking of any kind. We believe you just don't know if you are an alcoholic until you become one, and that it is genetic and a disease that can be triggered easily. So if you have in in your backround, it is wiser to just never start. Some people can drink, some can't. We believe the message that alcohol is good/fun/necessary/or just a "normal part of having a party and it really isn't as fun not having it" is so pervasive in our culture that some people just can't perceive of not having it around.

I don't think it's wrong to drink--I just think I want to normalize NOT drinking, for my kids. It wasn't normal for my family NOT to drink when you turn 21 (actually 18, back in the day--we all received beer mugs for our 18th birthdays--mine happened to be crystal). It was seen as special, and it made the occasion extra-special, to have wine with a nice dinner. Wine glasses were seen as a necessary part of a table setting in a formal way. Everything was set up to see wine and drinks as desireable, and it was WEIRD not to drink (Oh, you must be Baptist, or, Oh, you must be a recovering alchy, if you don't drink--how different, how weird...).

 

So, in the effort to normalize NOT drinking, as I said, we put away our wine glasses and we de-emphasize alchohol. It's hard, because even our church is having trouble defining an ETOH policy; people are rebelling big-time about not serving alcohol at the parish retreat, for example.

 

YMMV, and I strongly believe that. I just wanted to give you another perspective, as someone who also has alcoholic people in my backround, all but one of whom never acknowledged that they were.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Chris in VA

[Annie G]

I'm going out on a limb here--

With the history of alcoholism in your family, I would also stop the mocktails.

It's fear-based for me--and that may be immature of me, I realize.

My own kids are loaded for bear, genetically, wrt alcoholism. We've chosen to keep a dry home, now that ds has developed full-blown alcoholism, because we just don't want to encourage drinking of any kind. We believe you just don't know if you are an alcoholic until you become one, and that it is genetic and a disease that can be triggered easily. So if you have in in your backround, it is wiser to just never start. Some people can drink, some can't. We believe the message that alcohol is good/fun/necessary/or just a "normal part of having a party and it really isn't as fun not having it" is so pervasive in our culture that some people just can't perceive of not having it around.

I don't think it's wrong to drink--I just think I want to normalize NOT drinking, for my kids. It wasn't normal for my family NOT to drink when you turn 21 (actually 18, back in the day--we all received beer mugs for our 18th birthdays--mine happened to be crystal). It was seen as special, and it made the occasion extra-special, to have wine with a nice dinner. Wine glasses were seen as a necessary part of a table setting in a formal way. Everything was set up to see wine and drinks as desireable, and it was WEIRD not to drink (Oh, you must be Baptist, or, Oh, you must be a recovering alchy, if you don't drink--how different, how weird...).

 

So, in the effort to normalize NOT drinking, as I said, we put away our wine glasses and we de-emphasize alchohol. It's hard, because even our church is having trouble defining an ETOH policy; people are rebelling big-time about not serving alcohol at the parish retreat, for example.

 

YMMV, and I strongly believe that. I just wanted to give you another perspective, as someone who also has alcoholic people in my backround, all but one of whom never acknowledged that they were.

 

I know what you mean. Dh's good friend has a son who is a full blown alcoholic and yet the parents continue to drink at home- every weekend it's a cookout and drinking. The friend is so worried about his son but when I mention that the house going dry is an essential first step, he says no way is he going to stop just because his son can't handle it.

[swellmomma]

Thanks for your perspective Chris. I would say our home itself is dry, I never bring alcohol here, but have modelled having 1 drink a few times a year. Like teh men in the family that have a beer here or there in teh summer, the rest of us like to have a glass of wine with special dinners, but that is generally 3-5 times per year, even with familial history I don't see 1 glass of wine 3-5 times a year as a big deal, nor do I think 2-4 beers over the course of a summer is a big deal. I understand fully where you are coming from though. I certainly wouldn't be dictating whether alcohol is served outside of my home (such as if my extended family wants to serve wine with xmas dinner, I would not expect them to stop because of my kid, or the beer with the men etc).

 

With us the fact that we don't drink generally is not seen as weird etc. When I got married, we were in a tiny community hall for the reception. It was hot with no A/C and some neighbor called the police about the noise so we could not have windows or doors open. My dad (and a few others) had the drinks hit them harder than they normally would. Anyway, my dad ended up drunk. It was such an unusual sight that my friends actually came outside to see him when he went out for air. It was the first time in my life that I had ever seen my dad drunk. I was 24 years old. I have seen him tipsy 1 time since and that was my brother's wedding. (I never saw it at my sister's wedding because that was in Mexico). Anyway, my point in all that is alcohol is not seen a must have in my family, yes we enjoy a drink from time to time, but it is just that A drink. Not getting tipsy, or buzzed etc. No one is made to feel weird if they don't drink. Many times I have not even had the 1 glass of wine at dinner, or opt for the punch instead of sangria when the men are drinking beer. The same with the men chosing a coffee instead of a beer etc. I do have to say though even with all of that a cold beer on a hot day hits the spot like no pop etc quite can.

 

Our 18th birthdays (legal drinking age here) the focus is not on alcohol either. Now growing up we were allowed liquor glasses of wine with special dinners, andmy step grampa gave me a glass of beer when I was 7 and staying with them for a month (he was from Ireland to cut him some slack, the thoughts on alcohol and kids back then was much different). So it was not seen as a big rite of passage to finally hit drinking age within the family. I did however hit the bar that night with my of age friends. But within the confines of the family it was no big deal kwim. So no crystal beer mugs here ;)

 

Anyway, back to my son. I asked earlier on what the concern about the connection between NA beer and alcoholism. It is the message, is it the flavour? why is NA beer seen to be a risk for someone with alcoholics in the lineage? I thought alcoholism is due to the addiction to the actual alcohol, not the flavourings. SO why would NA beer pose that risk? If someone answered that already and I missed it can someone point it out otherwise can someone answer it for me?

 

I am leaning towards no, but given that we are looking at the timing being only weeks before his 14th birthday. I want to discuss it with him openly, not just with a no, because I said so, type approach kwim. He was mature enough to come and ask me about it, I want to discuss it with him in the same fashion and keep those doors open, and have him understand my reasons without sneaking the real stuff at a friend's place etc. That said I am not fully sure of my own reasoning yet, so getting that above question answered will help.

 

It seems right now those saying no, are giving the reasons of alcoholism and image mainly. So that is why the above question is important. Those that have said no problem with the NA beer said so for the same reasons I listed in my OP. So I am still stuck with my head going back and forth on it.

[WishboneDawn]

I'm going out on a limb here--

With the history of alcoholism in your family, I would also stop the mocktails.

It's fear-based for me--and that may be immature of me, I realize.

My own kids are loaded for bear, genetically, wrt alcoholism. We've chosen to keep a dry home, now that ds has developed full-blown alcoholism, because we just don't want to encourage drinking of any kind. We believe you just don't know if you are an alcoholic until you become one, and that it is genetic and a disease that can be triggered easily. So if you have in in your backround, it is wiser to just never start. Some people can drink, some can't. We believe the message that alcohol is good/fun/necessary/or just a "normal part of having a party and it really isn't as fun not having it" is so pervasive in our culture that some people just can't perceive of not having it around.

I don't think it's wrong to drink--I just think I want to normalize NOT drinking, for my kids. It wasn't normal for my family NOT to drink when you turn 21 (actually 18, back in the day--we all received beer mugs for our 18th birthdays--mine happened to be crystal). It was seen as special, and it made the occasion extra-special, to have wine with a nice dinner. Wine glasses were seen as a necessary part of a table setting in a formal way. Everything was set up to see wine and drinks as desireable, and it was WEIRD not to drink (Oh, you must be Baptist, or, Oh, you must be a recovering alchy, if you don't drink--how different, how weird...).

 

So, in the effort to normalize NOT drinking, as I said, we put away our wine glasses and we de-emphasize alchohol. It's hard, because even our church is having trouble defining an ETOH policy; people are rebelling big-time about not serving alcohol at the parish retreat, for example.

 

YMMV, and I strongly believe that. I just wanted to give you another perspective, as someone who also has alcoholic people in my backround, all but one of whom never acknowledged that they were.

 

I think I'm probably pretty much the opposite of you on my opinion but shucks, you're not immature. You're informed by your experience. My advice was coloured by my experience. Swellmomma can look at both posts and see which lines up best with her experience.

 

I don't think immaturity comes into it at all! :)

[clarkacademy]

No, I wouldn't allow this at all. My children are children until they are adults and i never want to send the message to them that they are adults in any way because they are just not. There is also nothing wrong with asking people not to drink around your kid or ecleast hide the fact they are. People ask not to smoke or whatever and drinking is no different.

 

If there are alcohol problems in the family that would raise another flag for me to say no way. My son can hang out with anyone in our family (well except my brother) and not feel the need for anything like this because he knows he is a child.

[Teachin'Mine]

I could use an analogy of letting kids buy candy "cigarettes". Personally, I wouldn't allow it as it sends the wrong message in many ways. Here's a like to wiki:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_cigarette

 

In a similar way, letting a kid - and 13 and 14 year olds are still kids IMO - drink from a bottle which looks like a beer bottle, is called beer (with the words non-alcoholic included), and tastes like beer, is just prepping them for drinking the real deal. I'd be having conversations about how being an adult involves maturity, responsibility and other things - not what you drink. For most people, drinking moderately is perfectly fine. For someone who has a propensity towards it being a problem, light or moderate drinking usually doesn't last long. It's a slippery slope and it's better to stay as far away from the edge as possible - while educating on the reasons and dangers. I'd not make it sound as something forbidden, but as something wise to avoid.

 

Hard to put into words, so I'm not sure any of that helped. And it may not even be in line with your thinking - it's just my opinion. :)

[Mom-ninja.]

I would, but it won't ever happen with my two older boys. One is allergic to wheat and the other is celiac.

 

I agree with some other posters. Your ds sees this as a rite of passage which is very important for teens. I think it's important to find a rite of passage for him whether it's NA beer or something else.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Kleine Hexe

[Food4Thought]

Oh man, I loved candy cigarettes! Now I'm sad they were so evil. :tongue_smilie:

 

To the OP: I think I'd let my son have the drink, but I'd ask whether it has to specifically be O'douls or whether a good cider or root beer would be acceptable. What is the particular experience he's going for? Can of beer? Something cold to drink with the guys?

 

I agree it seems like an important Rite of Passage for him, and it sounds like you are doing your best to treat him like a young man who will be an adult in a few short years. Cheers to you.

[kalanamak]

This wouldn't bother me, but I was given sips of beer and watered down wine as a kid. I believe studies have shown pure teetotaler families produce more alcoholic kids than families that treat alcohol more like a food item, and integrate it with meals, special times, etc.