Beast Academy Question

[Parker Martin]

If a child masters everything in MM 1-6, would it make sense to go back and do BA to expand upon what he's learned?

 

Alternatively, has anyone used BA with a five or six year old? If a five or six year old were ready for that level of math material, would the program be a good fit or would other non-math aspects of it make it not work?

[jennynd]

for a kid done with MM 1-6, I supposed u can use it as fun math. DS found the geometry dots part fun, not so much on other topic.

For a 5-6 yo, well, if he pass the pretest, I don't see why can't he/she do it

[wapiti]

If a child masters everything in MM 1-6, would it make sense to go back and do BA to expand upon what he's learned?

 

IMO, no. That student would be ready for AoPS Prealgebra. While there might be a few exercises in BA that would be fun for a student who's at that level, and that lead into a couple lessons in the Prealgebra book, IMO it would not be worthwhile to buy the BA books just for that.

 

Alternatively, has anyone used BA with a five or six year old? If a five or six year old were ready for that level of math material, would the program be a good fit or would other non-math aspects of it make it not work?

 

I am planning to use parts of BA with my almost-6 y.o. this summer. There's no way he could read it by himself - his reading ability lags well behind his math ability. I don't know how much he'll actually be able to accomplish, really I have no idea, but the beasts interest him. FWIW, he already understands multiplication and knows a decent chunk of the multiplication table.

[matilda]

I started using it with a 6yo who was half-way through 4B, and it has been a great supplement. But if he had been much further in his regular math, I don't think it would have been worth the money.

[Parker Martin]

What happens when we run out of pre college level math? We as in all of us who have kids zooming through math. Our local university is pretty expensive.

[Parker Martin]

I started using it with a 6yo who was half-way through 4B, and it has been a great supplement. But if he had been much further in his regular math, I don't think it would have been worth the money.

 

Good to know.

[nov05mama]

Alternatively, has anyone used BA with a five or six year old? If a five or six year old were ready for that level of math material, would the program be a good fit or would other non-math aspects of it make it not work?

 

My DS is 6 and he loves it!

He is an advanced reader, but I still read the guide with him, so I wouldn't even really say a child being a non-reader would be an issue, even for the practice book.

As far as math concepts, I think the only 'assumed' concepts are addition and subtraction. Exposure to multiplication and skip-counting helps, but it's certainly not necessary.

[Parker Martin]

My DS is 6 and he loves it!

He is an advanced reader, but I still read the guide with him, so I wouldn't even really say a child being a non-reader would be an issue, even for the practice book.

As far as math concepts, I think the only 'assumed' concepts are addition and subtraction. Exposure to multiplication and skip-counting helps, but it's certainly not necessary.

 

I thought they had to know multi-digit multiplication. They don't? If my son can read well and knows addition, subtraction, and multiplication (not just the facts but conceptually), should I buy it now?

[wapiti]

What happens when we run out of pre college level math? We as in all of us who have kids zooming through math. Our local university is pretty expensive.

 

AoPs, my friend, AoPS. Take a look at the class schedule - plenty of "extra" stuff for middle and high school. Plus, the kids may generally slow down the pace when they start AoPS.

 

Your student who has finished MM6 is in a fine position to start playing around on Alcumus, the free on-line problem solving program, er, "adaptive learning system," on the AoPS website. If you haven't already read the articles there, start with this, this and this. Rusczyk believes that doing hard problems is much more (ok, "way more") important than accelerating through higher levels of math. He also has a lengthy video presentation that is well worth the time and effort.

[Parker Martin]

I thought they had to know multi-digit multiplication. They don't?

 

Nm. Just found the placement test. If he passes this, he's ready?

 

I'm trying to slow him down, and I've heard BA is harder. My son loves math, and I want to challenge him when we start school this fall, but because he's so young, I'm afraid a too challenging approach might put him off. But that's heartening to hear that it's working for six year olds.

[Parker Martin]

AoPs, my friend, AoPS. Take a look at the class schedule - plenty of "extra" stuff for middle and high school. Plus, the kids may generally slow down the pace when they start AoPS.

 

Your student who has finished MM6 is in a fine position to start playing around on Alcumus, the free on-line problem solving program, er, "adaptive learning system," on the AoPS website. If you haven't already read the articles there, start with this, this and this. Rusczyk believes that doing hard problems is much more (ok, "way more") important than accelerating through higher levels of math. He also has a lengthy video presentation that is well worth the time and effort.

 

Thanks for the information.

[Parker Martin]

Oh, these articles are perfect. Exactly what I need.

[Rivka]

Nm. Just found the placement test. If he passes this, he's ready?

 

I'm trying to slow him down, and I've heard BA is harder. My son loves math, and I want to challenge him when we start school this fall, but because he's so young, I'm afraid a too challenging approach might put him off. But that's heartening to hear that it's working for six year olds.

 

We started Beast Academy just before my daughter turned seven, and it's working great for us. I don't think it's as hard as all that. There are some challenging problems, and it does call for some high-level math reasoning, but overall it isn't harder than MEP, which is where we came there from.

[nov05mama]

Nm. Just found the placement test. If he passes this, he's ready?

 

I'm trying to slow him down, and I've heard BA is harder. My son loves math, and I want to challenge him when we start school this fall, but because he's so young, I'm afraid a too challenging approach might put him off. But that's heartening to hear that it's working for six year olds.

 

My DS aced the 3A placement test, and did fairly well on the 3B one too (aside from a couple concepts he had NO idea about). He knows how to multiply and divide, but he doesn't have his facts memorized at all. He has no interest in memorizing yet, and frankly I haven't pushed it. We are just taking BA slow and steady. We started it when it first released, and he's just now about half way through the perimeter/area chapters at the end of 3A. We will hold off and start 3B in July when we start the new year.

[Parker Martin]

I showed a sample page to my son, and he said he liked it, so I guess we'll give it a try.

 

Thank you all for the information. And thanks for the information about broadening math curriculum. I've been a little stressed out the last couple weeks worrying about math, so this has been good. I am still a tiny bit stressed, but I'll get over it. :tongue_smilie:

[MissKNG]

Five year olds can do Beast Academy. My big girl turns six this month and started BA when it rolled out in March. We were also fortunate enough to receive the sample chapter that came out and she worked well in that. I didn't use the placement test since she worked fine in the sample chapter and was in Singapore 3. No regrets from me or her:D

[Halcyon]

We just received it and we have worked hrough a fair bit already. Some questions require him to think a lot, and imo it is more challenging han our spine, MM, but that might simply be because of the new terminology he is learning.

[Dinsfamily]

AoPs, my friend, AoPS. Take a look at the class schedule - plenty of "extra" stuff for middle and high school. Plus, the kids may generally slow down the pace when they start AoPS.

 

Your student who has finished MM6 is in a fine position to start playing around on Alcumus, the free on-line problem solving program, er, "adaptive learning system," on the AoPS website. If you haven't already read the articles there, start with this, this and this. Rusczyk believes that doing hard problems is much more (ok, "way more") important than accelerating through higher levels of math. He also has a lengthy video presentation that is well worth the time and effort.

 

:iagree: I mapped out some options for my ds and was able to easily find three extra years of math instruction to delay post-Calculus math on the AoPS website. I have also slowed him down A LOT by throwing in heavy doses of supplements and additional math programs. Being ahead means we have a lot of time for some pretty fun stuff. If I had more funds, I buy even more to "slow him down." There's some great stuff out there.

[crazyforlatin]

I showed a sample page to my son, and he said he liked it, so I guess we'll give it a try.

 

Thank you all for the information. And thanks for the information about broadening math curriculum. I've been a little stressed out the last couple weeks worrying about math, so this has been good. I am still a tiny bit stressed, but I'll get over it. :tongue_smilie:

 

I have a 6-year old who is working on MM5, and she finished 3A and is about half way through Beast 3B. She doesn't mind review but if the problems are just too easy she won't do them, so I imagine that most of Beast problems will be like that for a child who has completed through MM6, but surprisingly, there are a few challenging problems that I thought was interesting, that we've never experienced, and that I may want to explore further with DD.

 

If you don't want to spend the money on Beast, there are few separate books/games that are similar to Beast, such as Pentamino Puzzles (have this and it's really hard) and similar games (don't have this due to price). Snickerdoodle just recommended Martin Gardner's book in the huge Beast thread in the K-8 board. I didn't realize DD lacked visual skills until she started Beast, so that's one good thing about trying programs that are not exactly mainstream.

 

DD does love Beast, especially the textbook (comic-book style) and has re-read it a few times. This is a girl who never opened a comic book.

 

Also, since DD needs more visual challenge, I bought a few logic/visual games such as Rush Hour and Tip Over.

[SuperDad]

Alternatively, has anyone used BA with a five or six year old? If a five or six year old were ready for that level of math material, would the program be a good fit or would other non-math aspects of it make it not work?

 

I have a 5-year-old who is really enjoying BA. Occasionally she'll need my help with reading something, but that's pretty rare. I scribe for her as well (or have one of her siblings scribe for her if I'm too busy with something else). We also do MEP and Miquon as demanded (by her, LOL).

[Spy Car]

Nm. Just found the placement test. If he passes this, he's ready?

 

I'm trying to slow him down, and I've heard BA is harder. My son loves math, and I want to challenge him when we start school this fall, but because he's so young, I'm afraid a too challenging approach might put him off. But that's heartening to hear that it's working for six year olds.

 

BA 3A assumes little more than addition/subtraction skills AND a mind that is keen to problem-solve (and the ability to read). It is not so hard *if* a child like to think. Sounds like you would not have a problem.

 

Bill

[stripe]

If a child masters everything in MM 1-6, would it make sense to go back and do BA to expand upon what he's learned?

 

 

No.

 

Do something else. Marilyn Burns, Theoni Pappas, the Cryptoclub, MEP or the other units on CIMT's website, Martin Gardner, AoPS, whatever.

 

But your kid is not going to want to do (strangely unit free) problems like, "A triangle has perimeter 25. One side is length 5, the other is length 10. What's the length of the other side? 5+10+[]=25" . Yawn.

 

 

I thought they had to know multi-digit multiplication. They don't? If my son can read well and knows addition, subtraction, and multiplication (not just the facts but conceptually), should I buy it now?

 

No.

 

About half of the two books (first half of year three) is introducing the concept of multiplication. After a good while, the problems bear some resemblance to some of the problems in MEP, but there is tons of skip counting and other precursors to multiplication, some of which may be interesting but in general would not be appropriate for someone who is very comfortable with multiplication.

Edited May 17, 2012 by stripe

[Chrysalis Academy]

I am going to agree with the "no" for the studen who has finished MM6. Miss P is doing BA independently, with great enjoyment and without much trouble, at the end of MM 4. I only have her do the hardest problems - the star problems and maybe one or two just before the stars. They definitely make her think, but they don't stump her. At least not much and not for long. If she had two more years of MM under her belt I can't see it being worth coming back to this stuff. I would look at AoPS prealgebra or Zaccaro or any of the other suggestions you've gotten here already.

 

I could see my almost 6 yo doing BA, but I've firmly determined that she doesn't get to do BA until she can read the comics on her own! We've got plenty of other math for her to work on, as you can see from my siggy.

Edited May 18, 2012 by rroberts707

[Spy Car]

No.

 

Do something else. Marilyn Burns, Theoni Pappas, the Cryptoclub, MEP or the other units on CIMT's website, Martin Gardner, AoPS, whatever.

 

But your kid is not going to want to do (strangely unit free) problems like, "A triangle has perimeter 25. One side is length 5, the other is length 10. What's the length of the other side? 5+10+[]=25" . Yawn.

 

No.

 

About half of the two books (first half of year three) is introducing the concept of multiplication. After a good while, the problems bear some resemblance to some of the problems in MEP, but there is tons of skip counting and other precursors to multiplication, some of which may be interesting but in general would not be appropriate for someone who is very comfortable with multiplication.

 

While I'd agree that there are resources more suited to someone who has finished Sixth Grade math, this post seriously misrepresents the level of difficulty of the questions in Beast Academy by picking one of the very easiest sort. There are some easier questions—it is a Third Grade math program after all—but there are also many problems that are a whole lot harder the examples would suggest.

 

The skip counting section has problem solving techniques I doubt many 6th Graders have faced, and that is also true of every topic we have encountered. This is just not a fair representation of the challenge n BA. I don't get it.

 

Bill

[stripe]

While I'd agree that there are resources more suited to someone who has finished Sixth Grade math, this post seriously misrepresents the level of difficulty of the questions in Beast Academy by picking one of the very easiest sort. There are some easier questions—it is a Third Grade math program after all—but there are also many problems that are a whole lot harder the examples would suggest.

 

The skip counting section has problem solving techniques I doubt many 6th Graders have faced, and that is also true of every topic we have encountered. This is just not a fair representation of the challenge n BA. I don't get it.

 

Bill

It appears to me that any time I disagree with you, it leads to posts suggesting I don't know what I'm talking about or I'm misrepresenting something. Yesterday it was that only you, alone in the universe, know how to pronounce Arabic, and I am a total ignoramus for saying anything different. Now, my posting an example of a problem the OP's student would find too easy is seen as some sort of BA heresy. I find this intellectually tiresome. Guess what? BA isn't the answer to every student's math needs! At least in my universe.

 

Anyway, I did not claim this was a representative problem! I said

 

 

 

But your kid is not going to want to do (strangely unit free) problems like, "A triangle has perimeter 25. One side is length 5, the other is length 10. What's the length of the other side? 5+10+[]=25" . Yawn.

 

 

I stand by my statement that a kid who's finished mm6 won't want to do these. My kid doesn't want to do these, and he hasn't finished sixth grade math.

 

The sections DO include challenge problems. But if you want challenge problems, I stand by my recommendation that BA is not designed to be a program for advanced students who have finished elementary school math. It's designed to be an elem math curriculum. In this case, third grade math. Are there challenge problems? Yes. But does that mean BA year 3 is college level? A great supplement between algebra and geometry? No.

 

You admitted in another thread you hadn't seen Marilyn Burns' books and would look at them. Have you seen all of Theoni Pappas's Penrose and other books? She asks more of the reader in the problem about diagonals than BA does. Her pentominoes problems are at least as hard. So to suggest other resources that have ONLY the challenge problems and NONE of the arithemetical introduction is, to my mind, more appropriate to this particular person's question. Hence my post and suggestions. Which I stand by.

[Dmmetler]

I think it will depend on the child. My DD7 is at a similar level as far as math goes, and yet, doesn't find BA boring or tedious at all. It's not as challenging as, say, Penrose (who she spent all of last summer avidly reading and enjoying) in some ways, but she's finding enough new and interesting to have fun with it, and she loves the little beasts. It's not challenge/stretch math for her, as it would have been had she been doing it when she was on a 3rd grade level, but it IS a good, solid review in enough of a different way that she doesn't see it as a review, and if we can afford it financially, I'm willing to continue buying her the books as they come out for that purpose.

 

I do agree that if you want challenging math for someone who has passed 6th grade level, BA isn't it. But I don't think that it's necessarily the case that a child who is past 6th grade level cannot learn and enjoy BA, if they like that approach.

[Spy Car]

It appears to me that any time I disagree with you, it leads to posts suggesting I don't know what I'm talking about or I'm misrepresenting something. Yesterday it was that only you, alone in the universe, know how to pronounce Arabic, and I am a total ignoramus for saying anything different. Now, my posting an example of a problem the OP's student would find too easy is seen as some sort of BA heresy. I find this intellectually tiresome. Guess what? BA isn't the answer to every student's math needs! At least in my universe.

 

I seriously don't know what your problem is. Yesterday I said the Arabic "j" (jiim) often takes a "zh" sound, after it was pointed out by Tibbie that that was how a TV commentator pronounced it in the word "Hijra."

 

Then you blasted me by saying the "zh" pronunciation is not "universally" true, a statement I agreed with. There are many regional variations of the pronunciation of "jiim." The way Egyptians and Lebanese pronounce it (to give two extreme examples) could not be more different.

 

But you were the only one suggesting that I don't think you don't know what you are talking about. I never did that because I don't think it is true. You have always struck me as a very knowledgeable and well-informed person. I don't get your beef.

 

 

Anyway, I did not claim this was a representative problem! I said

 

But your kid is not going to want to do (strangely unit free) problems like, "A triangle has perimeter 25. One side is length 5, the other is length 10. What's the length of the other side? 5+10+[]=25" . Yawn.

 

I stand by my statement that a kid who's finished mm6 won't want to do these. My kid doesn't want to do these, and he hasn't finished sixth grade math.

 

The sections DO include challenge problems. But if you want challenge problems, I stand by my recommendation that BA is not designed to be a program for advanced students who have finished elementary school math. It's designed to be an elem math curriculum. In this case, third grade math. Are there challenge problems? Yes. But does that mean BA year 3 is college level? A great supplement between algebra and geometry? No.

 

You admitted in another thread you hadn't seen Marilyn Burns' books and would look at them. Have you seen all of Theoni Pappas's Penrose and other books? She asks more of the reader in the problem about diagonals than BA does. Her pentominoes problems are at least as hard. So to suggest other resources that have ONLY the challenge problems and NONE of the arithemetical introduction is, to my mind, more appropriate to this particular person's question. Hence my post and suggestions. Which I stand by.

 

I don't get the angry tone.

 

No one has ever suggested Beast Academy is the only good resource out there. It is designed to be a Third Grade math book. I think it is a very engaging one and is one my child really enjoys using. I do not agree that it is full of [yawn] type problems. Some problems are relatively easy (which is not inappropriate) and some are quite hard. The hard ones I'd bet would challenge students who have done standard 6th Grade math, but would I recommend them as the obvious "challenge math" for a 12 year old? No.

 

You find great math resources. When you mention something you like I unfailingly take notice.

 

I do think your characterization of Beast Academy is off. I don't get the comment "strangely unit free" since the books are tightly designed around units. And I think is is a little churlish to attack a Third Grade math program for not being a bridge-program to college algebra. It is neither yawningly easy, nor is it the most challenging math a twelve year old could face. Instead it is a very successful attempt (IMO) to bring the AoPS style of learning down to the elementary school level in a package many children will enjoy. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Bill

[Parker Martin]

If your child already knows all about skip counting and multiplication facts, would you start with 3A or 3B?

[Spy Car]

If your child already knows all about skip counting and multiplication facts, would you start with 3A or 3B?

 

The skip-counting section includes things one would not expect. The 3A book, generally speaking, has interesting sections on triangles, area and perimeter, and the like. We were in the position where some of the topics were "review" in some sense, but I'm very glad they were published (and that we are using them) now.

 

If you can accept that some elements may be easy and/or review, I think you will find other elements that are well beyond what is ordinarily taught in Third Grade math, and they more than make up for the repetition (at least that is the case here). There is definitely a mix of challenge in BA 3A/B.

 

Bill

[Parker Martin]

The skip-counting section includes things one would not expect. The 3A book, generally speaking, has interesting sections on triangles, area and perimeter, and the like. We were in the position where some of the topics were "review" in some sense, but I'm very glad they were published (and that we are using them) now.

 

If you can accept that some elements may be easy and/or review, I think you will find other elements that are well beyond what is ordinarily taught in Third Grade math, and they more than make up for the repetition (at least that is the case here). There is definitely a mix of challenge in BA 3A/B.

 

Bill

 

Okay, sounds good. Thanks.