The Unforgivable Sin

[Mom-ninja.]

I think that perhaps the difference between heinous acts and blaspheming the Holy Spirit is that in the former case we can still maintain some sort of connection with God, no matter how tarnished or weak it is. The person is, in part, denying truth and life in committing such an act, but usually he is not denying the existence of truth, of right and wrong, totally. Even hardened criminals often have a sense of justice or even a moral code that goes beyond justice. When we blaspheme the Holy Spirit we willfully set out to kill that connection, to deny truth that we know. It is a bit like Satan and the fallen angels - they know who God is, what kind of being he is, and yet they deny and work against that at each moment.

 

I think that if people do that with enough perseverance, they can come to a place where they are actually unable to repent. They have in a real way killed their own souls.

 

I'm not sure it is realistic though to talk about a person who is only guilty of that particular sin but no others. It seems unlikely that such a person would shrink from heinous acts as well.

 

And there it is. I knew it was just a matter of time before someone said this.

 

If you are an unbeliever than you will, of course in all likely hood, preform heinous acts.

 

This gets old.

[Ipsey]

I think that perhaps the difference between heinous acts and blaspheming the Holy Spirit is that in the former case we can still maintain some sort of connection with God, no matter how tarnished or weak it is. The person is, in part, denying truth and life in committing such an act, but usually he is not denying the existence of truth, of right and wrong, totally. Even hardened criminals often have a sense of justice or even a moral code that goes beyond justice. When we blaspheme the Holy Spirit we willfully set out to kill that connection, to deny truth that we know. It is a bit like Satan and the fallen angels - they know who God is, what kind of being he is, they have seen him face to face, and yet they deny and work against that at each moment.

 

I think that if people do that with enough perseverance, they can come to a place where they are actually unable to repent. They have in a real way killed their own souls.

 

I'm not sure it is realistic though to talk about a person who is only guilty of that particular sin but no others. It seems unlikely that such a person would shrink from heinous acts as well.

 

I reject the Christian God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit--I express it this way because I was a trinitarian). I do not believe they exist, and if they did, I would think they embody evil more than good. I was once a fervent believer (for 20 years) and Evangelical missionary (8 years).

 

So. . . which do you think I'll become--a rapist, a murderer? P@rn star. Do you honestly think I would not shrink from heinous acts? I think I can shrink from them even more than some religious people! (After all, the Biblical god told his people to go slaughter the Midianites--and they did!) I'll never know the profound spiritual implications for murdering for a deity.

[Juniper]

I reject the Christian God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit--I express it this way because I was a trinitarian). I do not believe they exist, and if they did, I would think they embody evil more than good. I was once a fervent believer (for 20 years) and Evangelical missionary (8 years).

 

So. . . which do you think I'll become--a rapist, a murderer? P@rn star. Do you honestly think I would not shrink from heinous acts? I think I can shrink from them even more than some religious people! (After all, the Biblical god told his people to go slaughter the Midianites--and they did!) I'll never know the profound spiritual implications for murdering for a deity.

 

:confused:

 

Where did you guys get that from what Bluegoat posted? I am so confused.

 

Ooops! My multi-quote didn't work. I meant to include the post above yours Ipsey. :)

 

I am not saying there aren't Christians who think that way, but from what I have come to know of BG, she is far from that camp ;) Who knows, I could be wrong though!!!

Edited May 8, 2012 by Juniper

[Greta]

And there it is. I knew it was just a matter of time before someone said this.

 

If you are an unbeliever than you will, of course in all likely hood, preform heinous acts.

 

This gets old.

 

I reject the Christian God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit--I express it this way because I was a trinitarian). I do not believe they exist, and if they did, I would think they embody evil more than good. I was once a fervent believer (for 20 years) and Evangelical missionary (8 years).

 

So. . . which do you think I'll become--a rapist, a murderer? P@rn star. Do you honestly think I would not shrink from heinous acts? I think I can shrink from them even more than some religious people! (After all, the Biblical god told his people to go slaughter the Midianites--and they did!) I'll never know the profound spiritual implications for murdering for a deity.

 

I did not take Bluegoat to mean those who don't believe in God, but as she in fact said, those people who are "denying the existence of truth, of right and wrong, totally".

[Onceuponatime]

I believe this based upon my own personal experience of "coming home". The God that I know is infinite in His capacity for love, forgiveness, and mercy. For that reason, I have wondered if the unforgivable sin is not the one for which God will not forgive us, but the one for which we will not forgive ourselves, the one for which we will not accept His forgiveness. I don't know, and I'm not staking any claim. Just kind of "thinking out loud" here.

 

:iagree: See what I wrote in my other post.

[Ipsey]

I did not take Bluegoat to mean those who don't believe in God, but as she in fact said, those people who are "denying the existence of truth, of right and wrong, totally".

 

Ah, ok, if that's what she mean, then I've got less beef with that. I may have misunderstood. If so, my apologies to Bluegoat.

[Greta]

:iagree: See what I wrote in my other post.

 

Ah, yes, I somehow missed that! Some very good insights there.

[tntgoodwin]

Wayne Grudem defines it as

“The unusually malicious, willful rejection and slander against the Holy Spirit's work attesting to Christ, and attributing that work to Satan.â€

 

John Piper defines it as

"The unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is an act of resistance which belittles the Holy Spirit so grievously that he withdraws for ever with his convicting power so that we are never able to repent and be forgiven. "

[Cricket]

I did not take Bluegoat to mean those who don't believe in God, but as she in fact said, those people who are "denying the existence of truth, of right and wrong, totally".

 

:iagree: Some Christians believe in common grace. The idea that not everyone will act as depraved as they are (also with the belief that ALL people are depraved). That as an act of grace God will restrain people from being as evil as they can. One example would be a conscience placed in the minds of all people. Sounds like Bluegoat is referring to people who have deadened their consciences and thus severing the last remaining connection to God.

 

Or I could be way off as to what she meant. :D

[8circles]

I think that perhaps the difference between heinous acts and blaspheming the Holy Spirit is that in the former case we can still maintain some sort of connection with God, no matter how tarnished or weak it is. The person is, in part, denying truth and life in committing such an act, but usually he is not denying the existence of truth, of right and wrong, totally. Even hardened criminals often have a sense of justice or even a moral code that goes beyond justice. When we blaspheme the Holy Spirit we willfully set out to kill that connection, to deny truth that we know. It is a bit like Satan and the fallen angels - they know who God is, what kind of being he is, they have seen him face to face, and yet they deny and work against that at each moment.

 

I think that if people do that with enough perseverance, they can come to a place where they are actually unable to repent. They have in a real way killed their own souls.

 

I'm not sure it is realistic though to talk about a person who is only guilty of that particular sin but no others. It seems unlikely that such a person would shrink from heinous acts as well.

 

 

As usual, :iagree:

 

I did not take Bluegoat to mean those who don't believe in God, but as she in fact said, those people who are "denying the existence of truth, of right and wrong, totally".

and :iagree:

[8circles]

Interesting. I do wish they hadn't used Kenneth Hagan as the Protestant example as I am sure 95% of Protestants do not follow his theology.

 

But I still found it enlightening. I am still not clear on how the sacraments work with salvation or what exactly is a mortal sin.

 

I also think there can be similar issues with Catholics thinking their deeds done outside of church are ok because they are "covered" by baptism or confession.....much like Protestants feel they are "covered" by a personal acceptance of Jesus Christ as their savior.

 

I really am not sure I am articulating well because I really don't want anything to turn into a "we" and "they" conversation because I believe Catholics are indeed Christian and don't want to come across as superior in any way religiously, I am just still not sure I get it.

 

Dawn

 

The bold is par for the course. :iagree:

[sheryl]

Hi Mergath! It's a good question for anyone. There is much confusion over the unpardonable sin. As you may remember, I am a follower of Christ (Messiah), but have I ever been or will I ever be perfect in this age? NO! I sin everyday. Everybody does, everyday because we are imperfect. It's not purposeful necessarily, but it is a choice.

 

Sinning is not the unpardonable sin. Blasphemy is the unpardonable sin - against the Holy Spirit.

 

Mergath, please accept this b/c I like you, sweetie. This is not intended for preaching.

 

Mt 12:31 (NASB) says, "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven."

 

Last, I just looked up the root word in my Hebrew and Greek Lexical Aids to the Old and New Testament repectively (where this verse is found) and here is a more in-depth explanation excerpted:

 

Hebrew: Na'ats: to....revile, scorn, despise, reject, condemn, deride, reject. To be......derided, scorned. 5006

 

 

Greek: Blasphemia: Denotes the very worst type of slander mentioned in Mt 15:19 with false witness; wounding one's reputation by evil reports, evil speaking. Used especially in a religious sense, blasphemy toward or against GOD (Rev 13:6); against the Holy Spirit (Mt 12:31, Mk 3:28 and in Lk 12:10). Including resistance against the convincing power of the Holy Spirit. 988

 

It is common thought among Bible scholars that blasphemy then is attacking the Holy Spirit by not accepting His convincing power and not giving credit to the HS, but misplacing that credit towards someone/something else. In other words, giving credit to self or others for something only GOD could do.

 

HTH!

Edited May 9, 2012 by sheryl

[blondeviolin]

From the LDS POV, the rejection of the Holy Ghost is someone saying "God, I understand exactly who you are and what you are doing, and I want no part of it." Most people are never in a position to truly be able to make that choice, which is why we think of it as something extremely rare. But should a person be able to understand who God is and truly want to reject him completely, God will honor that wish. He won't force anyone to go to heaven or to be with him if they don't want to.

 

If you can't say no to God, then free will doesn't mean anything.

 

Therefore I do not believe in universal salvation--because some people (even if only a very, very few) are not going to want it. Will God force them? How would that be heaven?

:iagree:

 

Also, it is not unforgivable because God would not forgive it, but because the person would have removed himself so far from the spirit he would have no desire to repent.

[Candid]

Interesting. I do wish they hadn't used Kenneth Hagan as the Protestant example as I am sure 95% of Protestants do not follow his theology.

 

 

:iagree:

 

Yup, I think it is rarely wise to portray your stance by bouncing off someone else's. It just muddies the water.

[mommaduck]

Well, technically. The terminology is different. If anyone is interested here is a good article that explains it.

 

I don't want to derail Mergath's thread, so if anyone has a question about Catholics and salvation let's start another thread.

Yikes! Most Protestants consider Hagin a heretic. Using someone way out on a fringe does not make a good argument (though I'm closer to you on the argument, than many Protestants). Just mentioning this for future reference and having been Protestant. If the author of that article wants to reach the common Protestant, he should reference someone more commonly acceptable.

[DawnM]

What do you mean your own experience? Did you have a NDE?

 

Dawn

 

I believe this based upon my own personal experience of "coming home". The God that I know is infinite in His capacity for love, forgiveness, and mercy. For that reason, I have wondered if the unforgivable sin is not the one for which God will not forgive us, but the one for which we will not forgive ourselves, the one for which we will not accept His forgiveness. I don't know, and I'm not staking any claim. Just kind of "thinking out loud" here.

[Greta]

What do you mean your own experience? Did you have a NDE?

 

Dawn

 

Oh, no, nothing like that. I'm so sorry if I sounded more dramatic than I realized! :blushing: I just meant my experience of losing faith and then finding it again. I was raised in a religion which was . . . well, how do I put this? I consider what happened to me to be spiritual abuse. It made me despise God, and become an atheist. I was in that religion for the first 17 years of my life, and it took me another 17 before I could start to heal. But without going into too much detail, I'll just say that my very first prayer, after all of those years of atheism, was answered so immediately and so lovingly that I continue to be in awe. God has shown me more love and forgiveness than I could ever "earn" in a dozen lifetimes, so that makes me believe that his grace and mercy are boundless, limitless. We are limited only by our willingness to accept it. Does that make sense?

[goldberry]

Oh, no, nothing like that. I'm so sorry if I sounded more dramatic than I realized! :blushing: I just meant my experience of losing faith and then finding it again. I was raised in a religion which was . . . well, how do I put this? I consider what happened to me to be spiritual abuse. It made me despise God, and become an atheist. I was in that religion for the first 17 years of my life, and it took me another 17 before I could start to heal. But without going into too much detail, I'll just say that my very first prayer, after all of those years of atheism, was answered so immediately and so lovingly that I continue to be in awe. God has shown me more love and forgiveness than I could ever "earn" in a dozen lifetimes, so that makes me believe that his grace and mercy are boundless, limitless. We are limited only by our willingness to accept it. Does that make sense?

 

Similar here. I never became an athiest, more of an agnostic. In my mind, I said to God, "I'm done with you." I thought I was "rejecting God". I obviously had not committed the unforgivable sin, because during that time, God kept working on me and calling to me. And similarly to GretaLynne, my first outcry to God again was immediately answered.

 

So, even though I thought I was rejecting God, later I realized I wasn't working with accurate facts due to experiences I had been subject to. This is where full knowledge has to come in to commit the unforgivable sin.

[Kathleen in VA]

I just received an email from SermonAudio.com that had a link to this video regarding this topic. After watching it, I realize it makes much more sense that what I originally thought. Hope this helps explain it.

 

http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopupvideo.asp?SID=223091822243

[CAMom]

This gives a biblically accurate answer: http://www.gotquestions.org/unpardonable-sin.html

 

I would definitely agree with this link. :)