CW/WWS question - Lewelma and others, please?

[Hedgehog]

Moominmamma (12) and The Snork Maiden (10) have been working through WWE. Moominmamma is finished, so I've just begun WWS. She hates it. :( I'm kinda hoping that she gets used to it, but in case she doesn't, the other writing program that I'm interested in is Classical Writing.

 

I'm interested in how teacher intensive CW is, compared to WWS. I get that a new program is a learning curve for the teacher, figuring out how to implement it, but once that's sorted, how do they compare?

 

I'm assuming that Moominmamma would be in Homer for Older Beginners. The Poetry book looks interesting too. But I'm struggling to find where you can actually purchase the books - where do you get CW from? :blushing: When I click on "preview and order" on the Classical Writing website, it redirects me to lulu.com and I've even heard of it - is it reputable?! Please bear in mind that I'm in the UK. To my knowledge it's not on amazon.co.uk or bookdepository.co.uk.

 

Thanks for your help!!

[1Togo]

We worked through CW Homer and are now working through CW Maxim. It is definitely more teacher intensive than WWS. We don't use WWS, but from the posted samples, it looks like the student workbook is written for the student to read the directions and do the work. The teacher materials have scripted suggestions for coaching your student to produce a piece of writing similiar to the samples. CW is not like that. I don't know how Older Beginners is set up because we used the A/H-in-a-Month tutorial, but the tutorial only had answers for the concrete work; i.e. grammar, diagramming, etc. It did not have examples for the writing portion of each lesson. The Homer core book has examples using different sources. We love CW and haven't had any problems working with it. In lewelma's thread, she wrote a review of CW. If you look at some of the more recent posts, Cleopatra, who is using CW, and I added a few comments. As regards lulu.com, it is a print-on-demand service. In other words, if you want a product, you pay for it and lulu prints it for the provider. No returns. I've bought all our CW materials from lulu without any problems.

 

Hth,

 

1togo

Edited April 13, 2012 by 1Togo

[amsunshine]

You can also purchase CW materials from Rainbow Resource. I don't know if the int'l shipping rates would be better or worse from them than lulu, though.

[SilverMoon]

Lulu is a reputable book printing business. Buying there cuts out the middleman. Rainbow Resource is the only other place I know that carries CW.

 

When my dd used WWS I handed her the text and wasn't involved unless she couldn't understand the instructions.

 

I can't do that with CW, but I'm okay with that. :D Aesop and Homer have four days of imitation and analysis. Each of the four Days in Homer has ten skill levels. Some skill levels are further broken into multiple lessons. There are also ten levels of writing projects. In the back of the book there is a chart you can copy for each child that makes it easy peasy to graph all those various skill levels. My core has flags marking the beginning of each Day, the current writing project, and the editing chart. (If you intend to use the workbooks as your guide, it will tell you which core page to read.)

 

How much of me they need depends on how difficult the new skills are. At first I was teaching or at least discussing before they began working on a daily basis. Once they "learned the drill" it didn't require as much of me, and most of the time I directly put into it was in the planning department. If I think they can handle the new skill on their own I have them read the instructions from the core themselves.

 

Here's what my sixth grader's Homer week looked like.

Monday: Read, discuss with Mom, look up unknown words, narrate, read it aloud with inflection and tone. I asked questions to get her thinking deeper. "Why do you think So-and-so did that?" "Why was So-and-so irritated?" "What would you have done?" Afterward she did Theon's analysis (Day 1) on her own.

Tuesday: Day 2 word analysis and outline the story. I picked the words she'd use during my planning. She only needed research assistance.

Wednesday: Day 3 sentence analysis and rough draft. I went through this one with her, putting my work on a little whiteboard. The diagramming was pretty complex. She did the draft after we did the analysis work.

Thursday: Day 4 paragraph analysis. She can generally do this one on her own after reading the core herself. The assignment for this one is usually challenging enough for her that I don't put anything else with it. If it's particularly light, or she gets it done faster than normal, I will suggest she get her editing started on this day.

Friday: She'll go over the rough draft herself, making changes and edits. Then she and I go over the paper together. I make notes with a colored pen, and discuss everything as I go through it. Then she writes or types the final draft.

 

 

Older Beginners is recommended for grades 7 and up. You can buy the workbook and it's IG, or use the core to do it yourself. (Either way the core is necessary.) There's a suggested schedule in the back of the core for older kids who need to move faster, but if you pace it yourself with the core she can fly through the parts that are easy for her, and camp on the ones she needs more practice with.

Edited April 13, 2012 by SilverMoon

[Hedgehog]

We worked through CW Homer and are now working through CW Maxim. It is definitely more teacher intensive than WWS. We don't use WWS, but from the posted samples, it looks like the student workbook is written for the student to read the directions and do the work. The teacher materials have scripted suggestions for coaching your student to produce a piece of writing similiar to the samples. CW is not like that. I don't know how Older Beginners is set up because we used the A/H-in-a-Month tutorial, but the tutorial only had answers for the concrete work; i.e. grammar, diagramming, etc. It did not have examples for the writing portion of each lesson. The Homer core book has examples using different sources. We love CW and haven't had any problems working with it. In lewelma's thread, she wrote a review of CW. If you look at some of the more recent posts, Cleopatra, who is using CW, and I added a few comments. As regards lulu.com, it is a print-on-demand service. In other words, if you want a product, you pay for it and lulu prints it for the provider. No returns. I've bought all our CW materials from lulu without any problems.

 

Hth,

 

1togo

 

Thanks.

 

How is the Older Beginners Book different to A/Homer in a Month?

 

So lulu.com will send you a book? Am I understanding that right? It's not a pdf download?

[Hedgehog]

You can also purchase CW materials from Rainbow Resource. I don't know if the int'l shipping rates would be better or worse from them than lulu, though.

 

I saw a few available on Rainbow Resource, but I think half the ones I wanted weren't there. I'm going to check back and keep looking elsewhere as well. Rainbow's shipping rates to the UK can be good if you order a lot of stuff, but for a few bits it's very expensive.

[Hedgehog]

Thanks for your post, SilverMoon! Really helpful.

 

Lulu is a reputable book printing business. Buying there cuts out the middleman. Rainbow Resource is the only other place I know that carries CW.

 

When my dd used WWS I handed her the text and wasn't involved unless she couldn't understand the instructions.

 

I can't do that with CW, but I'm okay with that. :D Aesop and Homer have four days of imitation and analysis. Each of the four Days in Homer has ten skill levels. Some skill levels are further broken into multiple lessons. There are also ten levels of writing projects. In the back of the book there is a chart you can copy for each child that makes it easy peasy to graph all those various skill levels. My core has flags marking the beginning of each Day, the current writing project, and the editing chart. (If you intend to use the workbooks as your guide, it will tell you which core page to read.)

 

I haven't been able to hand WWS to Moominmamma and let her get on with it. She just doesn't get it. I'm not sure why. :confused: I seem to need to re-word everything before she understands what she's supposed to be doing.

 

The exercises themselves are not beyond her, once she's clear on what she's supposed to be doing. But it's the element of not understanding the instructions that made me think that we needed a different program - one that covered the same sort of material, but was introduced in a different way. I would like to get to where you have described yourself below, where I can - at least some of the time - hand her an exercise and let her run with it.

 

 

How much of me they need depends on how difficult the new skills are. At first I was teaching or at least discussing before they began working on a daily basis. Once they "learned the drill" it didn't require as much of me, and most of the time I directly put into it was in the planning department. If I think they can handle the new skill on their own I have them read the instructions from the core themselves.

 

Would you say that CW was reasonably easy to get the hang of, both for the teacher and the student? I'm prepared to put some time into learning about it, obviously. I am hoping that it is not too different to WWS in terms of its aims and what it covers, but tbh if it is very different and I have to learn something completely new, then so be it.

 

 

Here's what my sixth grader's Homer week looked like.

Monday: Read, discuss with Mom, look up unknown words, narrate, read it aloud with inflection and tone. I asked questions to get her thinking deeper. "Why do you think So-and-so did that?" "Why was So-and-so irritated?" "What would you have done?" Afterward she did Theon's analysis (Day 1) on her own.

Tuesday: Day 2 word analysis and outline the story. I picked the words she'd use during my planning. She only needed research assistance.

Wednesday: Day 3 sentence analysis and rough draft. I went through this one with her, putting my work on a little whiteboard. The diagramming was pretty complex. She did the draft after we did the analysis work.

Thursday: Day 4 paragraph analysis. She can generally do this one on her own after reading the core herself. The assignment for this one is usually challenging enough for her that I don't put anything else with it. If it's particularly light, or she gets it done faster than normal, I will suggest she get her editing started on this day.

Friday: She'll go over the rough draft herself, making changes and edits. Then she and I go over the paper together. I make notes with a colored pen, and discuss everything as I go through it. Then she writes or types the final draft.

 

It SOUNDS like it's simple enough...

 

 

Older Beginners is recommended for grades 7 and up. You can buy the workbook and it's IG, or use the core to do it yourself. (Either way the core is necessary.) There's a suggested schedule in the back of the core for older kids who need to move faster, but if you pace it yourself with the core she can fly through the parts that are easy for her, and camp on the ones she needs more practice with.

 

I presume when you say "the core", you mean the book "Classical Writing - Aesop" or "Classical Writing - Homer" as the case may be ??

[SilverMoon]

Thanks for your post, SilverMoon! Really helpful.

You are welcome! :001_smile:

 

 

I haven't been able to hand WWS to Moominmamma and let her get on with it. She just doesn't get it. I'm not sure why. :confused: I seem to need to re-word everything before she understands what she's supposed to be doing.

 

The exercises themselves are not beyond her, once she's clear on what she's supposed to be doing. But it's the element of not understanding the instructions that made me think that we needed a different program - one that covered the same sort of material, but was introduced in a different way. I would like to get to where you have described yourself below, where I can - at least some of the time - hand her an exercise and let her run with it.

 

 

Would you say that CW was reasonably easy to get the hang of, both for the teacher and the student? I'm prepared to put some time into learning about it, obviously. I am hoping that it is not too different to WWS in terms of its aims and what it covers, but tbh if it is very different and I have to learn something completely new, then so be it.

I think the steepest part of the learning curve is skill levels 1-3 across the board. It flowed pretty smooth for us after that. My kids had already done Aesop though, so we had a basic idea of how it worked when we began. (The 6th grader mentioned above beta tested WWS between Aesop and Homer, and worked in it a bit when it first came out.)

 

CW revolves everything it does in a week around one story and it's corresponding writing project. The copia exercises, grammar, and such, are all done with the original model. The outlining done that week is an outline of the model. (When I say "the model" I mean the story they'll dissect and rewrite.)

 

WWS changed topics practically everyday. DD did okay in WWS, but it was harder for her to see the big picture. She thought the exercises where they provided her with an outline and told her to write were just mean. (snicker)

 

 

It SOUNDS like it's simple enough...

When you get in a comfortable groove, it is simple, IMO. That schedule was made by myself. I think the workbook paces it differently, but you don't have to do it in their order. There are 4 days of analysis and imitation work, and 4 days of writing project work if you include the editing/amplifying as it's own day. As long as you do the first day of analysis before you begin the writing project, you can rearrange any of it to suit you and your week.

 

 

I presume when you say "the core", you mean the book "Classical Writing - Aesop" or "Classical Writing - Homer" as the case may be ??

Yes. The main texts, or cores, were written first, and are comprehensive enough to be used alone. Somewhere down the road a CW follower wrote the workbooks and instructor guides to go with them, to make CW more accessible for those who didn't want to do the planning work. Because of copyright issues they can only send you to particular pages in the cores.

 

For Aesop we blindly followed the workbooks and it worked fabulously. At the Homer level, the workbooks didn't have the same charm for us. We ended up having to set it aside for more than half a year (short story: moving 14 hours away, grandparents, relative drama, 'nuff said), and when I picked the core back up after we'd completely unpacked, it seemed so much more simple than the workbooks. I used the blank chart in the back, made notes in the margins, added sticky tabs, and started using it with only my planning. I have picked up the workbook a couple times to see how they acted a particular skill out, but I haven't missed letting it run the show.

[lewelma]

Moominmamma is finished with WWE, so I've just begun WWS. She hates it. :( I'm kinda hoping that she gets used to it, but in case she doesn't, the other writing program that I'm interested in is Classical Writing.

 

I haven't been able to hand WWS to Moominmamma and let her get on with it. She just doesn't get it. I'm not sure why. :confused: I seem to need to re-word everything before she understands what she's supposed to be doing.....The exercises themselves are not beyond her, once she's clear on what she's supposed to be doing. But it's the element of not understanding the instructions that made me think that we needed a different program - one that covered the same sort of material, but was introduced in a different way.

Hi Hedgehog,

 

I've thought about your posts on my walk to the library today. And I have so many different thoughts that I am afraid that I am going to come across schizophrenic. So I am just going to throw them out there. If I am way off the mark, just let me know.

 

If you have used WWE for 4 years, your daughter should be very good at mechanics, memory, summarizing, and the physical act of writing. But on the down side, WWE is very much the same stuff for 4 years, so anything different might come as a shock to her system. I am curious if you think that her dislike of WWS is because it is the next step and she was very comfortable with the last 4 years. If so, it might just take her some time to move into logic stage writing, and she might dislike that effort. As SWB saids "their brains hurt." :001_smile:

 

My other thought is about her independence in writing. It sounds like you expected WWS to be self-directed, and that either the program or your daughter has let you down. I don't know if this is way off the mark (no offense intended) but if you are frustrated because she cannot do the work independently, she might be sensing this, and come to hate a program that she cannot do in the way that you expect.

 

If it makes you feel better, I have not been able to hand WWS to ds(11). What he is being asked to do is difficult, and I agree with a pp that seeing the big picture can be difficult. I find that I need to spend at least 1 hour with ds discussing the assignment each week, spit between 4 specific times during the week: 1) Before he reads the Topos instruction, I spend 15 minutes or more orienting him to the big picture. 2) After he reads it, I spend 15 minutes discussing it with him and thinking about what he has read that uses the Topos. 3) On the day he writes, he plans first, then for 15 minutes I listen to an oral composition and head off any problems that he clearly has. 4) After it is written, I spend 15 minutes discussing revisions with him, or more time depending on how difficult it was for him. I have also had to do a major teaching session when we hit description (like 2 hours over 2 days) when my no-nonsense, no-elaboration child *really* did not get it. If you are just handing WWS to your dd, she might just not be able to "get it" yet. The material is difficult and no writing program is ever implemented well IMHO without a coach/guide helping alone the way.

 

As for CW, first of all Lulu is reputable. It is just a print as required press, so they hold no stock. Their international shipping rates are Excellent and they were fast (8 days for my order). It cost $7 to get Homer to me here in New Zealand.

 

IMHO, Homer is much more teacher intensive than WWS, but Diogenes is about the same as WWS. I don't think either program (or really any writing program) is going to be hands-off for you.

 

As for whether CW is what you want, you need to think about a few things. Does your daughter need to practice rewriting stories? Not quite the same skill as the summarizing learned in WWE. But I am guessing, given her age and 4 years of WWE, that she could do Homer in a month (Homer for older beginners takes 1 year) and then move onto Diogenes. I do think that CW Diogenes is more incremental in its learning than WWS, and holds the student's hand more. But I also think that the material you are learning is more esoteric than in WWS (supporting chreia/ maxims vs writing about Octopus). WWS covers more topics (descriptions, narratives, lit analysis, research reports) than Diogenes, but to do this WWS has to spend less time on each (Not sure if WWS2 will review WWS1). Diogenes spends 2 years on supporting Chreia/Maxims. Also, if you daughter needs work on her style, CW does more of this by far than WWS. But you could always use Killgallon for Style if needed.

 

HTH a bit on making your decision,

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited April 14, 2012 by lewelma

[1Togo]

Since we have worked through CW Homer using the tutorial and are now working through CW Maxim, I have a few comments to add. In CW Homer, the student learns hierachial outlining, summarizing, and precis writing, so the writing is not confined to retelling narratives, which is different than story writing. Also, several posts about Homer emphasize the fiction aspect of the narratives, but we haven't found any difference in retelling a fiction narrative versus a non-fiction narrative. The ability to write a concise and ordered narrative, whether using a fiction source or a non-fiction souce, is useful in essay writing. For example, narratives are often used in the introductions of modern essays. It's true that CW Homer doesn't include the many types of writing covered in WWS, but Homer teaches many of the skills used in those types of writing, and since each CW level has a specific writing focus/form, the student masters that form. If you are interested in the big picture of CW, the CW website has a Scope and Sequence for each level, which shows the depth of writing coverage with CW. For example, Homer does include narrative analysis; i.e. author emphasis, scenes, credibility, etc. Also, as regards Diogenes, we are using the student workbooks and will complete Maxim in four months or so and will do the same with Chreia, so we will complete Diogenes in one school year. The student is taught modern essays in Maxim and Chreia, and as he works through the paragraphs of the ancient essays, he learns the skills needed for any type of essay; i.e. paraphrasing, example, etc. As I mentioned we are using the student workbooks and just following the instructions, and I realize what we take away from CW may be different than others. Borrowing from another mother on this forum, what draws me to the progym is the nature of the writing dd has developed through using it - clean and elegant. Mr. Selby, the author of Classical Composition, mentions that the progym produces on-demand writers. I see that as well.

Edited April 16, 2012 by 1Togo

[melmichigan]

I just wanted to :grouphug:. I am asking the same questions. DD is on week 12 of WWS, just coming back to it after an intense focus on summary. She just doesn't like it, and we discuss and work with each lesson so it's not independent. I am currently working through the Aesop/Homer in a month online tutorial myself to get a feel for it, and reading through Diogenes Maxim right now to see where it goes from Homer. I really like the tutorial. I am thinking of doing something like this with my DD versus the entire Homer for older beginner, you can stretch it out as much as your child needs. You have 6 months of access. Another option I am exploring is to use the Maxim tutorials once we get to that point, which is a 20 week tutorial both of us could watch instead of me teaching it all on my own. That or I might watch it myself. I am really focusing on my education first with many of these programs because I have so many kids yet to teach, you may not have that problem. :)

[lewelma]

In CW Homer, the student learns hierachial outlining, summarizing, and precis writing, so the writing is not confined to retelling narratives, which is different than story writing. In addition, the ability to write a concise and ordered narrative is useful in essay writing. Narratives are often used in the introductions of modern essays. It's true that CW Homer doesn't include the many types of writing covered in WWS, but Homer teaches many of the skills used in those types of writing, and since each CW level has a specific writing focus/form, the student masters that form. .... For example, Homer does include narrative analysis; i.e. author emphasis, scenes, credibility, etc. ....The student is taught modern essays in Maxim and Chreia, and as he works through the paragraphs of the ancient essays, he learns the skills needed for any type of essay; i.e. paraphrasing, example, etc.

 

Nice summary, 1Togo. And to be clear, Homer is NOT creative writing, they just use mostly fiction to teach the analytical skills 1Togo listed above.

 

The person you really need to talk to is SaDonna. She has used WWS and the progym concurrently this year and has seen how each program draws out different types of writing from her children.

 

Ruth in NZ

[melmichigan]

The person you really need to talk to is SaDonna. She has used WWS and the progym concurrently this year and has seen how each program draws out different types of writing from her children.

 

I think this would be my ideal choice. My DD doesn't like WWS but there are still skills there that I want to address.

[BlsdMama]

How comfortable are YOU with teaching writing?

 

I am currently teaching Aesop and Maxim. I believe that CW requires that Mom know at least a little about teaching writing. WWS doesn't make that same assumption, IMO. It is for the beginner.

 

The reason I bring this up is because for a program to be something that Mom struggles with in a subject that DD struggles in, is truly going to be a challenge.

 

If it were me I'd have DD buckle down and work through WWS. Then, from there, you can go on.

 

The other question I would ask myself, "Does my child dislike THIS program or does she simply not like writing and really must be made more familiar with writing?"

 

My DS doesn't like writing. He doesn't like IEW. He doesn't like CW. And I can bet my happy stars he won't like WWS. It really doesn't matter. He doesn't like things he is unfamiliar with. It feels difficult, he struggles when things feel out of his comfort zone. The only way to overcome this is for him to write more and more until he understands the concepts and it comes more easily. Once that happens he will be able to be more discerning and verbalize what he does/doesn't like about each program. Right now he just doesn't like it. Why? Because it's hard for him. If this is what you are struggling with as well then the goal is to familiarize them more, but not necessarily switch to a program that is going to be more challenging for you. I actually like the CW program VERY much, but I believe WWS is easier to apply.

[robsiew]

How comfortable are YOU with teaching writing?

 

I am currently teaching Aesop and Maxim. I believe that CW requires that Mom know at least a little about teaching writing. WWS doesn't make that same assumption, IMO. It is for the beginner.

 

The reason I bring this up is because for a program to be something that Mom struggles with in a subject that DD struggles in, is truly going to be a challenge.

 

If it were me I'd have DD buckle down and work through WWS. Then, from there, you can go on.

 

The other question I would ask myself, "Does my child dislike THIS program or does she simply not like writing and really must be made more familiar with writing?"

 

My DS doesn't like writing. He doesn't like IEW. He doesn't like CW. And I can bet my happy stars he won't like WWS. It really doesn't matter. He doesn't like things he is unfamiliar with. It feels difficult, he struggles when things feel out of his comfort zone. The only way to overcome this is for him to write more and more until he understands the concepts and it comes more easily. Once that happens he will be able to be more discerning and verbalize what he does/doesn't like about each program. Right now he just doesn't like it. Why? Because it's hard for him. If this is what you are struggling with as well then the goal is to familiarize them more, but not necessarily switch to a program that is going to be more challenging for you. I actually like the CW program VERY much, but I believe WWS is easier to apply.

 

This is very much our experience.

 

I think the most important thing is to find a writing program you can understand, stand behind and teach... then just stick with it.

[Cleopatra]

I've used WWS along with CW. It was an interesting experiment because my dd had been using CW for about 3 years before I introduced WWS. At first it really seemed like she was getting something "new" from WWS and she really loved doing it. The further we advanced into it, I realized the "new" wasn't actually anything new, it was just taught in a different way than CW and she really enjoyed doing it because it was so easy and it was so easy because of everything she had already learned with CW. So we stopped doing WWS and are now just doing CW exclusively. I may pull something else in at a later date (like The Lively Art of Writing) for fun, but again and again I see the benefits of CW.

 

I don't think that it requires the parent to know something about writing (I didn't know much when we started with CW) but it certainly does require the parent to teach until the Diogenes level and even then, you need to monitor your dc to be aware of their progress or of any areas they may need help with. I do understand that this level of commitment doesn't work for everyone.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Cleopatra

[TC5]

I've used WWS along with CW. It was an interesting experiment because my dd had been using CW for about 3 years before I introduced WWS. At first it really seemed like she was getting something "new" from WWS and she really loved doing it. The further we advanced into it, I realized the "new" wasn't actually anything new, it was just taught in a different way than CW and she really enjoyed doing it because it was so easy and it was so easy because of everything she had already learned with CW. So we stopped doing WWS and are now just doing CW exclusively. I may pull something else in at a later date (like The Lively Art of Writing) for fun, but again and again I see the benefits of CW.

 

Thank you, Cleopatra! This is great to hear. We dropped WWS after 12 or 13 weeks and have worked through CC Fable, are now using CC Narrative, and will soon start CW Homer (accelerated tutorial). Your comments make me feel better about not trying to fit in WWS lessons here and there, even though I'd sometimes like to try.

[Create Your Ritual]

Good morning! I thought I would weigh in with the little knowledge that I have on the subject. ;-) I have used WT1, CC Fable, portions of CC Narrative and CW Homer. I am also at Week 30 of WWS with my dc.

 

With them, there was a definite difference in the style of the writing that I was seeing from CC Fable/Narrative and WWS. The first months of WWS WERE hard for them, because it was a completely different method from what they had been doing. (They had also completed several levels of WWE before hand though).

 

Early on I didn't like WWS either. I didn't see the point in using SWBs notes and trying to come up with a narrative on a subject that my kids knew little about. I did try to remedy this through engaging documentaries or things we could find online (ex: I found the submarine and scientist in one of the narrative assignments). It was sooooo much easier to get them interested in writing a narrative out of CC Fable or Narrative, because the stories were interesting and delightful to them. lol. In turn they could produce more stylistic papers with CC Fable/Narrative (you can see some of the samples in the writing board), while our WWS work seemed stunted and plain. They had so much work just to get everything IN the paper that it didn't seem like the content was interesting, or it flowed very well.

 

However, there was a point in WWS that sort of changed my mind. It was probably by week 16 or so. I just realized that they had learned how to create a chronological narrative with a descr. of a place paragraph included in the mix, or when they created a biographical sketch using 1 of 20 or more aspects (there were a TON of others too!). I would never have known how to teach them that. It's like we broke out of the typical 5 paragraph public school model, and I just didn't want anything to do with going back. (To be fair I don't think CW teaches 5 paragraph exclusively)

 

All that said, I still LOVE CC Fable/Narrative. I haven't been able to dabble as much into CW Homer OB because our WWS work got more involved as the weeks went by. I actually prefer CC because of the figures of description and all the work up front that is asked of the student, instead of in steps with CW. However there is a way to incorporate both and make a very nice program.

 

I find value in both programs, but I REALLY like WWS now, and I can't see setting that down. For us the CW work comes as an aside... for summer months or in between WWS work. I want to continue developing thoughtfulness in their writing, stylistic improvements in their sentences (we also use SC for this weekly), and good flow and transitions. But, if I were to have to send them back to PS for some unknown reason, I think at this point .. nearing the end of WWS5 they would be better prepared than their counterparts with regards to putting a narrative report together using footnotes and a works cited page. I needed them to know that sooner rather than later. I don't PLAN to send them anywhere, but I wanted this type of writing to be part of our curriculum as soon as possible and I personally can't think of anyone better than SWB to do it.

 

I am curious about the upper levels of CW and will probably integrate lessons in there as we go through the years.

[Hedgehog]

Just wanted to get back to this thread and give a big thanks for everyone's thoughts and ideas.

 

Our family has been going through a particularly overwhelming time just recently and it's been difficult to come to a decision regarding doing WWS with Moominmamma. FTR, I like the program, I've already gone through it on my own, and I'm comfortable teaching it.

 

I intend to come back to this thread at some point in the future - very near future I hope - and re-read all the responses, and also re-read lewelma's writing thread.

 

If anyone has any other thoughts, I would be very glad to read them.

[fluffybunny]

My ds (almost 12) is also not independent with WWS, or anything for that matter. I read the day's lesson the night before and understand it myself first. Then I sit down on the sofa with ds, and I read the instructions, while he reads out aloud the story, and some of the instructions. I also explain further when needed. I then need to stand over him for most of his work. He learns a lot more this way.

 

I intend to slowly, slowly do less for him. But this could take 1-2 years. I don't see him being totally independent for at least another 3 years or even more!