awanama Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 My dd is in third grade. She really struggles with memorizing math facts. She has most of her addition down but has to sit and think about her others. We do flashcards on a daily basis and it doesn't seem to help. We have also tried fact sheets and they don't help either. Right now we are using Multiplication Facts the Fun Way and while she can tell me the answers if the pictures are with them, she can't remember most of them for her math workbook. I'm just unsure what to do. She does get math concepts easily but not knowing these facts are really slowing her down. It's a bit frustrating that the concepts come so easily but we can't seem to get anywhere because her facts aren't down. I have heard of others giving their children fact charts so they could continue learning concepts at the pace they are ready for and then working on facts separately. Should I do this? Or what should I do to get these facts down? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom2boys Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 My ds10 struggles with his math facts too. Using the online drill at www.mathusee.com has really helped him memorize his facts. I can choose what facts he needs to work on, and then we set the timer for 30 minutes, and he does the drills. Somehow, typing the answer into the computer helps him so much more than oral drills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KristineIN Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Erica, hi, you just posted in my thread that your dd is a hands on learner. Maybe you could do up a math addition lapbook. I found this one on another website, it's for multiplication, but I'm working on one similar to dd's. Maybe this might give you some ideas. Kristine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen in CO Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 We just started using wrap-ups. A friend let me borrow hers and my dd really likes them. It is another way to get her to practice facts. It might be worth a try. I also know many that have had success with facts copywork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 One thing that helped my DS, after math programs and worksheets, etc., did no good, was using a calculator to practice his facts. For some reason, seeing the numbers on the calculator helped him retain the facts. I toyed with the idea of getting Math Shark for him because of this, but I never got around to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I'd be inclined to give her the fact chart so she can continue on (without a calculator) and practice facts separately. Some kids pick it up just from using the chart repeatedly. It would be a pity if she were to get the idea she's not good at math simply because she's having problems memorizing facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivium Academy Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 1. Have her create her own addition, subtraction, multiplication tables and allow her to use them. 2. This has worked for us: Math Copywork at HomeschoolEstore.com ($4), it includes addition, subtraction, and multiplication. Skip counting also helps with multiplication. Depending on what type of learning style she is, there are plenty of ways to help her. :) Hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lorna Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 It is an age old problem, so don't worry too much. She is in third grade so I would check she really has a good concrete picture in her mind of what numbers and quantities look like and how multiplication works. This can be very simply done by using manipulatives such as unit cubes. Continue with your programme but enhance your maths with doing everything in a concrete way until she is giving more logical answers. I have also heard very good things about wrap-ups for this age (to second Karen in CO's suggestion). Use these in parallel with your programme to (think of it as a 'after-school club activity). Once you are sure she ought to know her facts and you have been over it as drill etc., I find it helps us to note down all the calculations they have problems with; give them the answer if they don't know it; and go over these as flashcards at a separate time (at the beginning of each lesson). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelissaMinNC Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 She can decide which facts she wants me to work out, but the 'trick' is, she has to make her own answer sheet. I let her use a chart to make the answer sheet if she wants, at least for now. Then I do the worksheet, and she checks the answer. She likes being the teacher sometimes, and I like it when she likes math, LOL. :) Melissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiegirl Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Here are some things that have worked for us. 1) math games--card games (we use RS but you can get books from RR that give you ideas for a whole slew of these kind of games) board games (Sum Swamp is one that comes to mind but that is probably too young for your child. The living math site has ideas for other games.) online games are good for drill. 2) movement games instead of flashcards. We use bean bags, tossing them back and forth while saying math facts. ex. I toss bean bag to dd and say, "3 X4" She catches bean bag and says, "12." We also use jumping games for drill. When it is warmer, I write numbers on our patio with chalk. I call out equations and she jumps on the right answer. In colder weather, I use index cards to write numbers on and then strew them on floor for dd to jump on. 3) write out math facts so she can have a visual of them. hth, Julia mom of 3 (8,7,5) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyg Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 No problem understanding concepts, but can't remember the math facts. I think an important thing for kids who struggle is to limit the number of math facts she has to deal with at one time. I give my 4th grader three triangle cards for +/- and three triangle cards for mult/div for the week. And that's it. He has all week to work on just those facts. Another thing we do is separate math facts from math class. In math class, we move along, one lesson a day, and he's on grade level. Then we have a separate math facts class. This is the class that I am most grateful to be able to homeschool him in. If he were in school, he would feel like such a failure because he doesn't know his math facts; and I know a classroom teacher couldn't possibly help him with this, at his own pace, the way I do. Here are some of the things we do: First of all, we only study a few facts a week, and we study them as fact families (triangle cards). The triangle cards have really helped my son see how the facts correlate and that they're not random and endless. A really helpful tool is the Al Abacus from the people who publish RightStart math. It's color coded in groups of 5, like fingers, so it's perfectly obvious that 7 beads is made up of 5 red beads and 2 yellow beads. We use the Al Abacus in place of any manipulatives that the curriculum calls for. For kids who have trouble with math, the abacus is immensely quicker and clearer than piles of beans, chocolate chips, or paper clips. I really suggest you do a web search on this tool and consider buying it. It's not at all expensive, and you will use it every day for years. This is the "calculator" my son is allowed to use on all his math worksheets. Also, have you tried simply dictating the math facts to your child? You slowly say "Three plus four equals seven." And she writes out 3+4=7. Repeat until you think it has soaked into his short-term memory. And if you do it every day for a week, it might creep into her long-term memory. :) And, of course, there are flashcards. But don't make the mistake of asking her "What's 3+4?" before you've done something (above) to cement in his mind that 3+4=7. If you like flashcards, and if you like electronic gadgets, you might like FlashMaster, which is a very nice electronic flashcard device. One thing that's nice about this product is that you can program in the facts of the week rather than having just any random fact popping up. It also gives your child a chance to practice privately (without you). We schedule a FlashMaster workout one day a week. Another thing to try is card games. You can play Go Fish, Old Maids, War, Concentration, etc. You put the equation on one card and the answer on another. So, say you're playing Go Fish and your card says, "3+4." You say, "Does anybody have any 7s?" If she has 7 or 4+3 or 5+2 etc., she gives you that card. Most weeks, we do card games one day a week. You get a lot of fact practice in one simple game; and if you do it right, your daughter will think it is fun! Remember, just include the facts of the week, not all the facts in the world! I know a lot of families like Addition the Fun Way. My son loved the stories, but it didn't help him learn his math facts. We also use the addition chart. I think I got the idea here. But I don't ask him to fill in the entire chart--just the facts of the week. I print out the chart with the facts-of-the-week blanked out and highlighted, and my son fills in just those blanks. He does this every day. The chart is useful because it helps the child see that the numeric patterns are orderly and predictable. Otherwise, to my son, the facts used to seem random. OK, so if you're doing these exercises on a few facts a week, what happens when you've covered all the facts? You start over. :) This is a long-term project at my house! Each week my son acts like he's never seen these facts before; when, in fact, we've been working hard on them since first grade. But each cycle through they ARE a little more familiar. And, more and more, when he needs a math fact, it will just pop "out of nowhere" into his mind. :) Some parents have had success incorporating movement into the math fact review: Bounce a ball while calling out the fact, throw a bean bag, jump on a trampoline, or play patty cake. One thing I tried was writing out the numbers in large letters on cardboard and having the child jump from number to number as he calls out the fact. Some families like Quarter Mile Math, which is a computer program where the kids race cars or horses by answering math fact questions. This works great for kids who enjoy competition (against their own scores). This is frustrating for a child who is prone to anxiety and freaks under pressure. The race is a RACE. Some kids love that. My son hated it. Learning Wrap Ups help some kids. Good luck with this. Count your blessings that she's home with you where you can work on this at her own speed and where you can continue it as long as necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenora in MD Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 In addition to all the great suggestions above, I signed my son up this year for big math time. www.bigmathtime.com It offers fun math drill, with games as a reward. We did spelling time last year, when it was free, and my guys loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alana in Canada Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 What is the addition chart? I have two kids struggling with their facts--one for multiplication, one for subtraction. I found the hexagonal "math fact family" cards on-line somewhere and made them up for addition and subtraction--nice change from flashcards, but not really all that "fun"! Great suggestions so far--Timz Attack is great but my poor son just freezes when he meets the ogre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 My dd is in third grade. She really struggles with memorizing math facts. She has most of her addition down but has to sit and think about her others. We do flashcards on a daily basis and it doesn't seem to help. We have also tried fact sheets and they don't help either. Right now we are using Multiplication Facts the Fun Way and while she can tell me the answers if the pictures are with them, she can't remember most of them for her math workbook. I'm just unsure what to do. She does get math concepts easily but not knowing these facts are really slowing her down. It's a bit frustrating that the concepts come so easily but we can't seem to get anywhere because her facts aren't down. I have heard of others giving their children fact charts so they could continue learning concepts at the pace they are ready for and then working on facts separately. Should I do this? Or what should I do to get these facts down? Thanks Using fact charts is fine. You do not want to slow down concept development because of a lag acquiring math facts. What worked for us was using QuarterMile Math software. My then-10yo-dd and I set a timer for 10 minutes every day and sat down to do QMM. I did the keyboarding for her, and I strongly recommend using the program this way for a couple of reasons: a lot more practice is packed into those 10 minutes, plus having a warm body next to you working makes it easier to keep attention focused. Drill is deadly in large quantities, so I don't advise going beyond 10 minutes at a time (although you could do it more than once a day). It took us 4 months of doing QMM on a daily basis for my dd to become solid on all of the math facts (+ - x / ). When we quit, I noticed she started "losing" facts, so I had her do QMM for 10 minutes herself twice a week. After a year of that reinforcement, she was completely solid on the facts and never lost them anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyg Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Here's a link for an addition chart: http://www.lovetolearnplace.com/Curriculum/Math/addition/additionchart.html'>http://www.lovetolearnplace.com/Curriculum/Math/addition/additionchart.html'>http://www.lovetolearnplace.com/Curriculum/Math/addition/additionchart.html'>http://www.lovetolearnplace.com/Curriculum/Math/addition/additionchart.html And here's one for a multiplication chart: http://www.lovetolearnplace.com/Curriculum/Math/addition/additionchart.html To use this, you move one finger across the top row to the right and one finger down the left column. Then bring your fingers together, and they'll be on the answer. I know some moms give their kids a blank one and have them fill it in. Some moms give their kids a filled in one and have them use it like a calculator (to look up answers). The way I use it: I fill the whole thing in, but blank out this week's facts and highlight the blank spots. So if one of today's facts is 5+4=9, I highlight the 5 across the top and the 4 down the side. Then I blank out the 9 and highlight that in the same color. So it's very obvious to my son that 5+9=?. Then he fills in the answer. I use a different color to highlight each problem. (Three a week.) He fills that in every day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novafan Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 1) My kids were previously in a Montessori school (5 year old in a Primary program and 7 year old did half of 1st and half of 2nd grade) and I was VERY impressed with the way they learned math. My 5 year old was touching on the basics of division using a division board - all manipulative. I really saw the benefits of the multiplication and division boards with my 7 year old. I have a place where you can get them for $10 each. I think they are pretty self explanatory or you can find tutorials online that explain how to use them. I know how to use them because my 5 year old showed me how it worked. :D This is what the division board looks like: Multiplication board: 2) My older son did math facts in his Montessori school for just a few minutes at the beginning of the day. At first they did them on paper, but right before we left, they had switched over to a computer based program called Math Facts in a Flash. The children could sit down at the computer when they wanted to (common in a Montessori classroom) daily and do their daily Math Facts on their own. They really loved it! I'm waiting on one right now (DS's old school is mailing us one). Perhaps combining the manipulative multiplication/division board with the Math Facts CD program (or something similar), it will click. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in MD Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 the story and pictures to just the facts? I spent 3-4 days for each fact to make the the transition. Even after completing the program, occassionally I had to tell my ds to think of the story when he became stuck on a fact. As time went on, he needed fewer and fewer reminders to think of the story. Plus I gave ds math fact drill sheets for probably a year afterwards to make sure he didn't forget them. I do know that my ds eventually stopped using the stories as a crutch, because of his speed on the math drills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debbiec Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I'm intrigued! Where did you get the boards and where can I find info to use them ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I have found Touchmath to be a huge help. Touchmath.com is a method I have been using with my 9yo who is in 2nd grade math still. She is smart enough but has a very slow processor or slow recall but Touchmath has helped her immensely. It has even helped her with memory. She doesn't always use it. They will send you a demo DVD that will help you to understand how to use it, but I never bought the materials. You can the method with whatever curriculum you are using just by following the info from the DVD. I call it a counting method and since my dd was using tally marks for all she was doing, she was using a counting method anyway, so this made it faster and easier and it is usable for addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. I promised dd a year off math because she is a late bloomer, so after the new year began, I put her at her younger sister's level and now they work together and dd has stopped arguing with me. She still doesn't enjoy math, but the fight is over. Most folks think memorization is better, and I do to, but if a child is really struggling, he/she just needs a method to get past the struggle so they don't feel stupid. The accomplishment of finishing a work page a little easier is a great boost to the confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Apparently I don't know how to link. The website is Touchmath.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I'd be inclined to give her the fact chart so she can continue on (without a calculator) and practice facts separately. Some kids pick it up just from using the chart repeatedly. It would be a pity if she were to get the idea she's not good at math simply because she's having problems memorizing facts. I *especially* agree about not letting her think she's "not good at math" just because she doesn't have her math facts memorized. And I'm not sure she's even "having problems." She just hasn't done it yet. But she's only 8. At this age, it is NOT a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lux Et Veritas Academy Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 There are some great ideas here= Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Here are some things that have worked for us. 1) math games--card games (we use RS but you can get books from RR that give you ideas for a whole slew of these kind of games) board games (Sum Swamp is one that comes to mind but that is probably too young for your child. The living math site has ideas for other games.) online games are good for drill. 2) movement games instead of flashcards. We use bean bags, tossing them back and forth while saying math facts. ex. I toss bean bag to dd and say, "3 X4" She catches bean bag and says, "12." We also use jumping games for drill. When it is warmer, I write numbers on our patio with chalk. I call out equations and she jumps on the right answer. In colder weather, I use index cards to write numbers on and then strew them on floor for dd to jump on. 3) write out math facts so she can have a visual of them. hth, Julia mom of 3 (8,7,5) Great ideas! I have copied these to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I asked this very same question in a thread I started today and someone sent me over here to check out these answers. Thanks to all the great replies. My ds is almst 8 and he skipped 2nd grade math in the VA he is in. He is very math bright, but can't be bothered to learn the facts. We are in division now and it is REALLY slowing him down to not know his facts. So I intend to apply some of these suggestions and do some drill with him. My mom told me that she too was math bright as a kid (well, as an adult too), but remembers being in 4th grade before she stopped 'counting' up all her facts. She said she just didn't 'trust' the memorization....it took her a while to believe that 6 X6 will always be 36 even without her counting it all up on her fingers. So that might be part of the problem with my son. He is just not quite 8, so I'm not really worried...just thinking it might be time to get more serious about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awanama Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 Thank you everyone for all of your wonderful replies! I will be trying out your ideas. I do want to say that I think a lot of her problem is the program. It spirals and moves quickly. She easily understands the concept of what multiplication is, she just can't memorize them as fast as they want. We have only made it to lesson 40 out of 170 because it's just moving to quickly even after going back and doing about half of the 2nd grade program. It expects her to already know x1,2,3,4,5 and /2,3,4. It's now teaching uneven division like 56/4. She understands how to do these things but because she struggles to remember her facts, it makes her dread math. She knows how to think them through like if she can't remember 7x3, she thinks 7x2 is 14 and then add 7 more. I'm really thinking that she needs more of a mastery approach rather than the spiral. I'm thinking of maybe taking the rest of the year to just focus on her facts and start a different program next fall or dump the whole thing and start with something else now. Math has always been her favorite subject until this year and she dreads it now. Anyway, thank you all for the wonderful advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alana in Canada Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 That board is beautiful! You could make one yourself with a big egg carton--or a bunch of regular ones stapled together. Not quite the Montessori experience of "living wood"--but on a budget---- Thanks for the link to the addition chart. I'll check that out. As a result of the comments on this thread, I made a multiplication chart for ds to use in his excercises today--and the stress factor was lowered so significantly he actually remembered some and told me he "didn't want to use it." Then later this afternoon, we couldn't find a ball (the new puppy has them hidden) so I tossed a glove at my son and asked him mutiplication questions--and he asked me some in return, like 42x200, silly stuff like that. He enjoyed it. And right now, I'll take it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMarie Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Cindyg, My fourth grader sounds just like your son. Each day it is as if she is seeing the fact for the very first time.(although we've been working on them for years.) What a relief to have a hard week with this issue then come here and see your post. I love the idea of having a seperate "math facts class." We will start it immediately! I've been struggling with holding my daughter back and letting her think she isn't good at math. Thanks for the encouragement! Can you tell us more about the triangle cards? Also, when your son is doing his "math concepts class," how do you manage to not get bogged down by the "facts?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyg Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Triangle cards: Look at an example here: http://christian-book-store.christiansunite.com/64552/Original-Triangle-Flash-Cards.shtml. I also think you can print them at Enchanted Learning. You can buy these at many teacher supply stores, or you can make your own. The biggest number always goes at the top. So, in the example linked above, you get 4 facts: 3x5=15, 5x3=15, 15/3=5, and 15/5=3. Four facts for memorizing one family! And how my son can go on in math without getting bogged down by the math facts? The AL Abacus (from RightStart). It is an awesome calculator. I think every kid who doesn't have his math facts memorized should have his own Right Start abacus. You can use it for addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, and even fractions. On one side it goes from 1 to 100. Flip it over and the other side goes up to 99,999. (I might be off a place value or two. I don't have it in front of me.) Once your child gets the hang of how to use this, she can do virtually any math problem that she understands, though perhaps more slowly than the kid who has the math fact memorized. It really is fascinating watching this unfold. My son is really good at math and really bad at remembering his math facts. If he were in school, he would be so bored with math class that he would tune out; yet, at the same time, he would be so behind on his math facts that he would be totally lost. I'm sure math would be an issue for him by now. But since I can separate the two, it's just not an issue. I figure we'll keep working on this until he gets to algebra or consumer math where you get to use a calculator, and by then, things will have evened out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testimony Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 My younger son is struggling with math facts too. I have decided that I am going to put the math textbook aside and play more games and create a math lapbook with him. I realize that he has understand the concepts first before he can get the math facts. Here's what I am going to do: 1. He plays Suzuki violin. One of the concepts that his teacher taught is go back over the beginning pieces. This is also a concept that I have learned as a Christian. We always need to relearn the beginning concepts of the faith. So, I decided to reteach the beginning concepts of math with him. There are ways that you can do this without going through an entire year. 2. I am going to have him play math games. We need to play more dominoes and bean games. We will use the abacus and his army men. I won't do drills until he understands the concepts. Try it for your child maybe it will help. Blessings, Karen http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Drills and flashcards failed miserably here, despite my conviction that they were requisite!!! Ds has a copywork book of math facts from Queens Homeschool. We have math facts on tape to music. We use MUS. My 9 yo is very visual spatial with a kinesthetic learning streak there, too. She learned her math facts by doing math all year round with only very short vacations. My 12 yo learned them by doing them. Ds is learning them by building them (MUS and using rods for SM when he forgets) and is going to start doing them with copy work soon. The music helps, too. They can either hear them and read along in the books or move to the music if they're kinesthetic learners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 and I haven't reached that stage yet, but I do know that I wasn't expected to have them cold until I was 10. I remember walking to school in Australia (age nine) chanting them, but I think that was at my father's urging. We covered them in 5th grade and had to keep practicing until we could pass timed trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Bay Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 That sounds about right for me, too, and I was in CA when I had to get them down cold in Gr. 4--it was a split 4/5 class, too, so some of the kids memorizing them were a year older. Another reason I don't freak out if they don't have them really early. I think my Canadian school was the same way--back in the dark ages of the late 1960s early 1970s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Ok, now that I think about it, I can clearly remember learning my multiplication tables in 4th grade. I remember 8 X 4 to this day because it was OJ Simpsons number and one of my classmates was a huge fan of OJ. (shudder) And I remember learning '8 times 8 fell on the floor picked it up and it was 64.' Both of those memories are 4th grade. I guess I just thought since ds7 (almost 8) is sooooo smart in math that he would get them faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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