Weighing HSing vs. public, also what do you think when recess used as discipline?

[provenance61]

I posted earlier on the afterschooling board, but also wanted to post here. Am looking for more thoughts on how to approach this issue right now -- and also help in weighing what do do next year...

 

We just started HSing this year, with our 10 year old son (4th grade). We also have a 4 year old daughter who is in public preschool. She has a vision impairment and so after turning 3 (end of EI) she started an integrated preschool class in our public school, in afternoons. This year she is also doing several mornings a week in our homeschool co-ops with her brother.

 

She is bright, quick, and very social. She also has very much a mind of her own! We are considering homeschooling her at some point in the future BUT: 1) vision devices may not be covered if she is not in school system and 2) she's very very active (wondering how hard it would be, esp as her brother is super bright but has attention issues(no problem with behavior at all) and is better in quiet environments. Am wondering how it would be to handle the two together--he has inattentive/ADD and with her we are looking into overactivity and impulsivity. It would be like driving and braking (he needs to be revved up, she needs to be slowed down). So that's our background.

 

But the question now is: Yesterday she and two of her friends were apparently not listening (maybe in circle, not sure) and following directions in her preschool class. So she missed her outside time and stayed in to do math which she missed while she was "playing". This is pretty much what her teacher wrote in her daily logbook.

 

I was wondering what you all think. Is this appropriate? This is the 2nd year she's had this teacher and she really has been a good teacher. My initial reaction though is YIKES! --isn't this really taking away recess, and when she's still in preschool? Especially if they are acting out perhaps they need the active time to settle. She's only 4 1/2, won't turn 5 until next August.

 

I guess I'm sensitive b/c when her brother was still in public school he tried very hard and always good behavior but when he did not finish work he was held in from recess repeatedly. Even when he was also receiving OT b/c activity helped his attention issues.

 

So what do you all think -- am I overreacting or is this appropriate? How could it have been handled differently?

 

And...with our background, would you consider considering pulling her or continue working w/in school system and then afterschooling? She does currently have an IEP and is special needs because of her vision, but is on par or ahead in most areas.

 

Amy

[LucyStoner]

I have always thought that my son missing physical activity makes the behavior worse because he needs to run and move to settle down and pay attention. So it seems to be an ineffective punishment to me for little kids.

[Riverland]

I also think taking away recess generally makes for poorer behaved kids and I think it is generally a lousy way to discipline. Kids need to get up and move. Kids need fresh air. When my dd was in public school, her 3rd grade teacher would take recess away from her for not having her homework done.....She was sick for several days, and on her first day back, she did not have the homework done that was assigned WHILE she was home sick. He and the principal both got a piece of my mind! The principal (and school district policy) supported me, but the teacher continued with this sort of antics. The teacher told me that if I cared that much about recess, then I would come to the school and get dd's homework & have her do it while she was sick. This was *one* of the reasons I pulled her out to homeschool.

 

[jen3kids]

Losing recess was one of the reasons my youngest has only spent 3 weeks in ps!

 

He had never been to school before, never sat for more than 15 minutes. He sat and did his work, didn't say boo, didn't move. A couple times he didn't finish his work in the allotted time so he had to take it outside with him, sit against the wall and finish it.

 

The first time, he was fine with it. The next time he was furious. He was done with school. There was more to the decision than that one issue, but it was a contributing factor.

 

It is a ridiculous policy and certainly not one based on proper research.

[Rosie_0801]

No you are not over reacting. It's stupid to take away something that aids a child in coping, then punish them some more for not coping.

 

Rosie

[Mommy22alyns]

I think that making a preschooler miss recess is especially ridiculous. A preschooler?!?!

[Bang!Zoom!]

With the diagnosis of what her vision issue is..and the follow-up needed medically...does that IEP impact any insurance issues in her future?

 

I'd start sniffing around at what the vision specialists suggest as a course of treatment and progress with a long-term view.

 

Does that treatment require outside validation such as an IEP from a public school?

 

Are there alternatives to getting that validation if it's necessary for follow-up care?

 

Can you find or connect with a parent with a similar vision issue who has already traveled this path and has advice on it's correction or maintenance?

 

If the IEP carries some sort of legal weight in regards to insurance coverage and treatment, that is something to heavily consider and make choices on.

 

Avenue two is to have a very direct and frank discussion with the teacher on your reaction to the situation and alternatives for handling that sort of behavior in the future.

 

Ideally, the family and school should work as a team, not as adversaries. But we know that's not always possible.

 

If you forecast more of the same aggravation in the future from her, it may be time to leave if they are not cooperative and listen to your concerns.

 

I don't consider keeping a child indoors at that age as punishment (which it really is, as a consequence) appropriate - discipline as a "word" may be viewed in another way I think.

 

Good luck with it. She sounds lovely.

[5LittleMonkeys]

Making the whole class loose recess due to one or two students talking or misbehaving was a regular practice in the ps my dc attended and was one of the top ten reasons we pulled them out. I had a rather heated discussion with the principal about it and was told the dc were lucky to get the little bit of recess they got. :glare: This is just another example of teachers thinking they have to use punishment to get the results they want. Withholding recess is one of the few forms of punishment they can control and it's easier than taking the time to re-direct the offending behavior when it is occuring.

 

You aren't overreacting. It is unfair and asinine to withhold recess for any young dc. If you plan on leaving this dc in ps though, you need to get used to these types of decisions and practices...they seem to be widespread in many, many public schools.

[NanceXToo]

Ugh. My daughter was constantly losing recess (the lousy 15 minutes of it that they got) when she was in K and 1st grade as a punishment for "talking too much" in the classroom when she was in public school. It was one of the things that finally led to me pulling her out and starting to homeschool when she was in 3rd grade, and to not sending my son to public school to begin with.

 

Young children are not developmentally ready to just sit still and quiet for hours on end. They need to move and talk and explore and so on.

 

Taking that away from them just makes things worse.

 

I was shocked they'd do that to a Kindergartener and 1st grader. Making a preschooler miss outside time to do math instead? I'd be furious.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I think that making a preschooler miss recess is especially ridiculous. A preschooler?!?!

 

:iagree: And to stay in and do math?! That's just insane!

 

Depending on where you're located, you could still receive services and/or equipment through the school.

 

I'm in PA and it's up to each district. In our case, the school will not provide speech unless ds is enrolled, which is NOT happening!

 

I obviously do not know your financials, but she should qualify for SSI which would give her medicaid and anything can be covered through medicaid.

 

I vote for HSing her.

[MeganW]

My big kids were in public preschool for kids with developmental delays. Two never got in trouble, but the third child is my mover & shaker, and she seemed to be in trouble more due to inability to sit still for periods of time.

 

The first time they pulled her recess, I went up and talked to the teacher, and let her know that while I supported her doing what was necessary to maintain control in her classroom, removing C's recess was going to backfire. C got in trouble when she needed to move. Not letting her run off her energy made it worse.

 

The teacher and I decided together that when C got in trouble, instead of pulling her recess later that morning, they would send C right then to run a "punishment" lap around the playground. (It was attached to their room, so very easy for her to get out, be watched while doing the lap, and get back in without inconveniencing the teacher too much.) Running the lap let her burn off enough energy to then be able to focus for a little while longer.

[Lightly Salted]

I can't help you with IEP concerns, but the recess issue was one of the main reasons I started considering home-schooling.

 

Mine were in preschool and kindergarten, and were almost always sad that recess (for the whole class) had been cancelled that day due to someone's misbehavior. Added to that, they often cancelled specials (like music for the entire class; I was the music teacher) for misbehavior.

 

AND to make matters worse, when I tried sending healthy snacks, I was asked specifically to bring "a sweet snack" instead of a savory one. So, we had young, sugared-up, bored children whose recess and special classes were cancelled ... and the solution was to make them sit still for even LONGER without expecting more boredom-induced misbehavior?! :001_huh:

 

Now we love our trampoline-spelling lessons, hour-long lunch recess, and 5 minute activity breaks between subjects! :lol:

[Ester Maria]

I disagree with a four year old doing math (or anything "formal", really, in an institutionalized schooling setting).

 

Withholding recess from kids, especially this young, is insane and ineffective.

[Night Elf]

Wow, count me in as another who thinks taking away outside time from any age child is just plain silly. I've even had a couple of college professors stop talking in the middle of class and make everyone stand up to stretch and hop in place a few times. It helped wake us up!

 

Preschoolers with formal work that must be completed in a certain time frame? That's such a sad thing. And people wonder why kids hate school.

 

I do not know about IEP and special needs outside a school system. My son might have qualified for an IEP for various issues with Aspergers but teaching him at home was already providing him with what he needed. We have always modified schoolwork to suit his specific needs. You'll have to ask yourself what that IEP is providing to your dd that you cannot provide to her at home. I'm certain there are some circumstances that warrant a connection between public school and homeschool. I don't know about your situation.

 

What kind of vision devices is she using that you cannot provide to her? If she needs them in school, doesn't she need them at home? Are you saying they belong to the school and you would have to pay for them on your own? Do you have private insurance that would help with that? Someone else mentioned outside help like medicaid, but I have zero knowledge of that.

 

Yes, it would be a challenge to homeschool two such very different children. They have unique needs. However, it is not impossible. Some people do great, some manage okay, some can't cope. No one will be able to tell you how you might fare and I'll warrant you won't know until you try. One indication might be what goes on in your home when both children are home. Are there significant problems? Or are you worried that when you're sitting with one child the other child will be out of control? I bet some people can give you tips on how to keep one child occupied while you work with the other.

 

To be honest, I don't have a grudge against public/private school. It really does work well for some families. I just prefer homeschooling. My daughters did okay when they were in school. My son did not. My youngest dd was in and out of school because of issues *I* had with the schools. She would have been fine if I had just kept my nose out of it and let her deal with stuff on her own. But I was a homeschooler at heart since I was homeschooling her brother, and it was my fallback position anytime something happened with my dd at school that I didn't like. And she's done perfectly fine at home. The reality is that homeschooling works for us and while school would be okay for my youngest dd, I didn't see a need to keep her there when I knew she would be fine at home as well.