Redshirting 9th graders? High school from 10th to 13th grade?

There's been a lot of talk here, and in the national discourse, about redshirting incoming school age kids, usually at the K level. I guess this term comes from sports, where it means holding them back a year. However, I don't think I've ever heard about redshirting prospective high school age students, especially ones who are "average". I've got a long way to go before high school, but the more I think about this, the more sense it makes, in terms of helping them to be as prepared as possible for college, and to make their application competitive.

 

Consider the following:

 

Colleges don't seem to care at all about the age of their incoming students (it might even be illegal for them to ask). They just care about the last four years worth of curriculum, and tests/achievements passed in those four years. Homeschoolers have a lot of discretion in naming what grade a given student is in. Most colleges, and especially the competitive ones, admit students with lots of AP tests, and often assume that Calculus and high level classes are taken by the end of high school. I've been very impressed by many folks here who homeschooled AP classes, with successful AP test results.

 

So, does it make sense for an average kid to do high school from 10th to "13th" grade? Presumably, the transcript would list these as 9th through 12th grade. I'm not talking about repeating 8th grade, the 9th grade would be a typical curriculum, and to go an extra year, to make sure we can get to calculus, fifth-year language, and fit other AP classes in.

 

Is this crazy?

[Oakblossoms]

Well, we have considered it for our oldest. But, he is a high functioning Aspie. We wouldn't count the 13th year on his transcript. We would "graduate" him in his 12th year and then add anything else to his transcript. Does that make sense?

 

I wouldn't do it for an average kid. Mine is really bright in some areas, but extremely in flexible in others. We are only going to do this if he isn't ready emotionally for College. Heck I would do it for any kid who is not ready emotionally. But, I don't think I would do it, just so they could get a bigger transcript or play sports.

[Brenda in MA]

No, I don't think your idea is crazy at all. I think some folks do high school over 5 years. The opportunity to take more advanced coursework might help the student's college applications stand out. I do think, though, that keeping the student a high schooler for 5 years would really have to be an individual decision for each family and each child.

 

I have a student who is "young" for his grade, and while he could have taken some more advanced coursework in a 5th year at home, he was really ready maturity-wise to move on to a larger pond, so to speak, and there weren't any local options that would have accommodated that need.

 

I've found that kids change so much over their high school years that often it's tough to plan the entire span in advance. The student might sprout some interests that you didn't anticipate. Maybe he or she finds a time-consuming extra curricular activity they are passionate about, etc. It's a good idea to go into the high school years with a general plan, but then to also expect some changes/diversions along the way.

 

You said that your kids were younger. You could keep the "redshirt" idea in the back of your mind and then probably make a definite decision when the student is in early high school.

 

Best wishes,

Brenda

[Brenda in MA]

Well, we have considered it for our oldest. But, he is a high functioning Aspie. We wouldn't count the 13th year on his transcript. We would "graduate" him in his 12th year and then add anything else to his transcript. Does that make sense?

 

Just an FYI -- if you don't think the student is ready for college, be careful about graduating him after 12th grade and then doing "13th" grade. A IRL friend did something similar with her dd, and the dd's plan was to take some CC courses for "13th grade" while she applied to 4-yr colleges at the same time. Since her dd was already a high school graduate before signing up for the CC classes, the 4-yr colleges considered her dd a transfer student and not a freshman.

 

The dd could have taken exactly the same CC courses and applied as a freshman if she took the CC classes before she graduated high school and not after. I know it's really semantics, but it can make a difference.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[NotAVampireLvr]

If I had an extra year in school I feel I would've been much better prepared for my disastrous college experience. Academically I was prepared, but maturity wise I was far from it. I turned 18 after I graduated HS. My daughter will be in a similar situation, and its definitely something I'm considering for her.

[Carol in Cal.]

I thought of giving my DD two years of 8th grade, but not for redshirting purposes. She was on the young side of the normal range for 8th grade, and lots of kids a year older than she were just starting 7th. For us, really, the question was whether she would benefit from an extra year homeschooling in terms of progress, maturity, and unstructured time before starting a brick and mortar high school. I also was determined to teach her Algebra 1 myself, for several reasons.

 

After a great deal of angst, we decided to go ahead and just do one year of 8th grade. The driver for this, more than anything, was her strong desire to get into high school the following year. However, as we were seriously considering Catholic high schools, I assessed the 'norm' and found that starting kindergarten a year late seems quite unusual in this population compared to the public school and other private school students, so I concluded that DD would be best off sticking with her age category if she went to a local Catholic school. She is in her sophomore year currently, and I am positive that we made the right decision.

 

One thing I consciously did was have one-two good high school offerings available to her that she didn't apply to, so that if we changed our mind she would still be able to apply the following year with credibility as an incoming freshman.

 

If I had planned to homeschool high school, I would not have decided so soon. I would have just continued progress in all areas, tracking 8th grade as if it were high school, and decided what to call each year at about age 16, so as to define the grades for PSAT purposes.

[gingersmom]

Its called a post graduate year. Its probably more common than you think.

[kiana]

You know, you could hedge your bets and plan it both ways -- e.g. keep records for the 8/9 grade, but make sure that anything really crucial (like your student's only us history class, for example) isn't in that year, so that you can hold off deciding as long as possible.

[alpidarkomama]

Since her dd was already a high school graduate before signing up for the CC classes, the 4-yr colleges considered her dd a transfer student and not a freshman.

 

The dd could have taken exactly the same CC courses and applied as a freshman if she took the CC classes before she graduated high school and not after. I know it's really semantics, but it can make a difference.

 

Is there a disadvantage to being considered a transfer student??

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Brenda in MA]

Is there a disadvantage to being considered a transfer student??

 

It depends on where you want to transfer to. If the student will be transferring to a state school, it probably doesn't matter, and if the student will be transferring from a CC, then a good number of his/her courses will probably transfer.

 

If he/she is looking for scholarship money at a private school, the best scholarships are usually reserved to lure incoming freshman. It's often harder to get a scholarship as a transfer student. So if you want your student to be in the running for scholarships at private schools, it's best to apply as a freshman.

 

HTH,

Brenda

Its called a post graduate year. Its probably more common than you think.

 

Thanks! I had never heard of this, but it isn't quite what I'm thinking of. It seems colleges don't accept AP exams after the "senior" year of high school. Also, the post graduate year wouldn't help with other tests keyed to high school year (not age), such as the PSAT, SAT, ACM10/12, etc.

[Candid]

Around fifth grade we decided to lower my oldest's grade level because his late September birthday had him on track to go to college when he was 17. We decided this wasn't for the best. In his case his academics will probably mostly look the same (math is the only place where he will be ahead, conceivably if his mother finagles with a local LAC he could have four semesters of college calculus completed upon graduation, since he will not likely be a math or science major I don't consider this a disadvantage or advantage). We did notice a dramatic improvement in his social fitting in and leadership skills over the next year in groups where he went back (we moved during this period so when he came into new groups he came in at the lower grade level). Would this have happened anyway? I don't know, but it was nice to see.

If I wanted to get in to a more selective college, I'd go for the five year plan...something like Jimmy Carter did...go to college, then apply and get in to the more selective school, doing 4 years there. I know some colleges do have a formal 3-2 plan between institutions to accomplish this.

 

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that transfer admissions are much more difficult at most places than normal freshman admissions, and there are also fewer scholarships available. Sadly, unless you are going to an elite private school, I think that five years of college is the norm now (or even more).

[Gwen in VA]

Ds2 "repeated" 8th grade. He is now a senior, and he will be 19 when he graduates.

 

It's been a mixed bag, but I would do it again.

 

Pros --

1) The extra year allowed him to mature that extra bit so he was able to pursue harder classes than he would have been able to. The harder classes have resulted in his being accepted to his dream college. :001_smile: (He would not have had a AP science exam score or science SAT-2 score if he had not had the extra year, and oddly enough engineering schools like those science scores!)

 

2) The extra maturity and extra time have allowed him to pursue his EC interests VERY seriously.

 

Cons --

1) He has watched all of his close friends (1-2 years older) graduate from high school and leave home. He has made new friends, but it would have been nice for him to leave home when his friends did.

[snowbeltmom]

The vast majority of kids in my area turn 6 while in K. One private school even has a cut-off date of the end of March.

My oldest will turn 18 the beginning of his freshman year of college, and my middle child will turn 19 at the beginning of his freshman year.

 

Imo, since homeschooling allows a child to work as his ability level, the cons of completing high school at 17 outweigh the positives in our experience.

 

These are the negatives that I never considered when the school accelerated my oldest, and we maintained when we began homeschooling:

1. Your child loses a year of eligibility in Mathcounts, AMC, etc.

2. Your child is competing with students a year older on the PSAT, SAT, etc.

3. Your child is competing in sports with kids a year older.

4. And this is the biggest negative that we recently encountered. Kids in my area have the opportunity to gain research experience during the summers of their Junior and Senior years. The kids interview for these two-year positions at the end of their Sophomore year. While my son has more than met the academic requirements to compete for a spot, he is unable to apply because he will not be 16.

 

If we had to do it all again, I would have moved my oldest back with his age peers when we began homeschooling four years ago. Now I feel we are too far along to make a change.

[Murphy101]

We sat our oldest down just a few weeks ago and discussed doing this for many reasons.

 

Our reasons were financial as well as emotional and academic readiness.

 

There are several opportunities for enrollments in concurrent classes for 11th grade that he wasn't ready for this year, but would be uneligible as a 12th grader. We can't afford these on our own and we don't want him to go into debt for them.

 

He has just now finally gotten a grasp on algebra, which has been a struggle for several years of diligent effort. But that meant his ACT scores were just a few points away from qualifying for concurrent enrollments. So instead of taking advantage of that for 2 years, he would only get one. Now his scores are MUCH improved, which means that 1 year could offer several opportunities he wasn't developmentally ready for prior.

 

This young man is rather directionless. The unemployment for under age 25 is bleak right now and we worry it will be worse before it is better. An additional year that adds maturity, saving some money (both in work and in taking advantage of opportunities), and direction is a luxury that he will likely never have again with no negatives that we can think of for him. The only slight negative is that, for now, that means he is classified as the same grade as his next younger brother. However, this time next year, we might very well make the same decision for similiar or other reasons for that brother.

 

When we sat ds down and explained the advantages, he was okay with it. He wants to graduate next year (every kid does!), but he agreed that he wants the advantages of waiting too.

[Cabertmom]

We are doing this with our oldest, most especially because she just needed some extra time for math. I hope it turns out for the best.

[Murphy101]

You know, you could hedge your bets and plan it both ways -- e.g. keep records for the 8/9 grade, but make sure that anything really crucial (like your student's only us history class, for example) isn't in that year, so that you can hold off deciding as long as possible.

 

Absolutely do this. Make the decision closer to 11th grade. I'm glad we did that. This is not a decision you have to make today.;)

[Merry]

My oldest has a fall birthday and he was struggling a lot with reading and math so I decided to hold him back in fifth grade. Then when my third child turned fourteen in the summer, we moved to another state. He is a very strong visual/spatial learner so he struggled a lot with English and algebra. I didn't understand very well how to teach him. So I held him back in eighth grade and I am so glad I did. He blossomed in eleventh and twelfth grade, doing quite well in his weak areas as well as his strong areas. And it happened that both my oldest and third sons were able to graduate with wonderful friends. My oldest is a mature and loving father and husband and doing very well first as a lineman and now as a dispatcher/resource manager with the electric company. My third just graduated with honors in art and has done several art shows so far.

My other children have winter or spring birthdays so they have done fine without needing to be held back.

I hope my personal experiences help someone.

Absolutely do this. Make the decision closer to 11th grade. I'm glad we did that. This is not a decision you have to make today.;)

 

It sure isn't a decision that I need to make today :-), but I think it needs to be made before 9th grade. If it was made at 11th, you might lose your eligibility for PSAT / ACM10 tests.

 

In any case, I greatly appreciate all the feedback on these boards.

[Murphy101]

It sure isn't a decision that I need to make today :-), but I think it needs to be made before 9th grade. If it was made at 11th, you might lose your eligibility for PSAT / ACM10 tests.

 

In any case, I greatly appreciate all the feedback on these boards.

 

:001_huh: Maybe it depends on the state you live in? In Oklahoma, I never have to report what grade my kids are in to anyone at any time. So when *I* am ready to call him 11th is when I would decide to take those exams. As long as I think enough ahead to register him, then it's all good to go.:)

[Rita]

We sat our oldest down just a few weeks ago and discussed doing this for many reasons.

 

Our reasons were financial as well as emotional and academic readiness.

 

There are several opportunities for enrollments in concurrent classes for 11th grade that he wasn't ready for this year, but would be uneligible as a 12th grader. We can't afford these on our own and we don't want him to go into debt for them.

 

He has just now finally gotten a grasp on algebra, which has been a struggle for several years of diligent effort. But that meant his ACT scores were just a few points away from qualifying for concurrent enrollments. So instead of taking advantage of that for 2 years, he would only get one. Now his scores are MUCH improved, which means that 1 year could offer several opportunities he wasn't developmentally ready for prior.

 

This young man is rather directionless. The unemployment for under age 25 is bleak right now and we worry it will be worse before it is better. An additional year that adds maturity, saving some money (both in work and in taking advantage of opportunities), and direction is a luxury that he will likely never have again with no negatives that we can think of for him. The only slight negative is that, for now, that means he is classified as the same grade as his next younger brother. However, this time next year, we might very well make the same decision for similiar or other reasons for that brother.

 

When we sat ds down and explained the advantages, he was okay with it. He wants to graduate next year (every kid does!), but he agreed that he wants the advantages of waiting too.

 

Martha, we did something similar with our elder boy in December. He turned 17 in November, and was taking some dual enrollment classes at our local small private college. He was also taking math with a tutor, and an online Latin class. He is rather directionless, and wasn't doing well.

We gave him the option of staying home for school, taking more dual enrollment, but there were not many credits we could financially let him take, or go down to the local public school, but retaking the second half of his Sophomore year.

We discussed the pros and cons of retaking 10th grade; including getting a really good grounding in math, and having "extra" time to take classes that he wouldn't have had the chance to if we put him in the second semester as a Junior.

He is really settling in and doing well, and has found a subject that fascinates him...Psychology, something no one could have predicted! Friend wise, he has made several friends across the grade levels, and has kept his home school friends.

Parenting is so hard!

Rita

:001_huh: Maybe it depends on the state you live in? In Oklahoma, I never have to report what grade my kids are in to anyone at any time. So when *I* am ready to call him 11th is when I would decide to take those exams. As long as I think enough ahead to register him, then it's all good to go.:)

 

Many of these test you really want to take multiple times. So, if you take the ACM 10, and claim you are in 9th grade, but then decide that the following year is the 9th grade year, I don't think you can take it again, claiming that you are still a 9th grader.

 

This is probably more of an issue for things like the PSAT, where there's a lot on the line. I wonder how the PSAT administrators verify what grade the student is in?

 

There just seems like so much stuff that some high school kids are trying to cram into their schedules these days. I don't like the idea of making kids schedule an AP class during lunch, just so they can still study the arts. I think I'd rather go another full year, instead of burning the candle at both ends.

[Murphy101]

Many of these test you really want to take multiple times. So, if you take the ACM 10, and claim you are in 9th grade, but then decide that the following year is the 9th grade year, I don't think you can take it again, claiming that you are still a 9th grader.

 

This is probably more of an issue for things like the PSAT, where there's a lot on the line. I wonder how the PSAT administrators verify what grade the student is in?

 

There just seems like so much stuff that some high school kids are trying to cram into their schedules these days. I don't like the idea of making kids schedule an AP class during lunch, just so they can still study the arts. I think I'd rather go another full year, instead of burning the candle at both ends.

 

Sure you can still do it. Public school kids get held back all the time and retake these exams claiming, rightly so, that they are still whatever grade level. Of course, I would verify the policy, but the majority of the time, I bet it isn't an issue.

[melmichigan]

We are holding my DD back grade wise by a year, she started K at 4yo, most kids in our area start when they are 6. She has AS and is 2E, which we didn't know at the time. Now that she is out of public school there isn't a need for her to keep being pushed ahead grade wise for academic reasons, we can meet her wherever she is in each subject. She was actually really accepting when we approached her about it. I thought she wouldn't be happy with the idea. She has taken this school year to do more with her own interests in science and nature and to work on her weaknesses in writing. We will keep records in case something drastically changes but I don't see the chances of that being very high.

[emubird]

One advantage to consider is that a kid who starts college a year "late" will be more mature and better able to handle the college scene. Having to suddenly be so responsible for class work and managing life is a huge jump for a lot of kids, and those who are a year older when they start have a tendency to do a bit better.

 

I know a few kids who did this (including my own) and it's really been better for them. The colleges don't seem to care. Even if the student took a lot of college classes in high school, many colleges just give credit for them without any fuss. They don't call the student a transfer student.

 

It's particularly nice for kids who are young for their grade.