I finally saw the movie, "The Help". Have a ?

[In2why]

Wow. How sad. It's quite the opposite. I am the one who is lucky to be part of HER family. I feel honored to be invited to HER family gatherings and to HER church. It is possible you know for an employer and an employee to become very, very close and for it to be a mutually beneficial friendship. One of my best friends is a teacher and I am her principal, her boss. And yet the friendship is real.

 

I am closer to Prema than I am the majority of people in my family.

 

 

 

 

It is so sad that people seemed determined to keep such a wall up that they can't conceive of a world where two woman could become like sisters even though they have other roles that are different. I guess I am even luckier than I thought!

 

 

 

 

.

 

You are either missing my point or making it. Of course the relationship is great for you, of course you consider her, family, but I wasn't talking about the employer, but the "help" What if they don't want to be your family, moreso in another country? If the maid was the best maid in the world, but wasn't warm and fuzzy would you still love and value her? What does the "help" owe you (as in the general you) Why is being part of the family seen as the decent thing? I think it is wonderful that you have the relationship you do, and is fabulous for the kids, but talking generally, people saying the help are like family reminds me a bit of slaveowners stating that slavery was okay because the slaves loved them and were family. Yet they would sell them if things got tough, the same way your help would find a new family if you couldn't pay her.

I have also had wonderful rrelationships with people that employed me and others that I employed but look at the number of.posters here that used the family label to show they, or their families were decent employers. Very few if anyone would say that about a more traditional employee -employer relationship. I just find it interesting from a social aspect.

[mommaduck]

You are either missing my point or making it. Of course the relationship is great for you, of course you consider her, family, but I wasn't talking about the employer, but the "help" What if they don't want to be your family, moreso in another country? If the maid was the best maid in the world, but wasn't warm and fuzzy would you still love and value her? What does the "help" owe you (as in the general you) Why is being part of the family seen as the decent thing? I think it is wonderful that you have the relationship you do, and is fabulous for the kids, but talking generally, people saying the help are like family reminds me a bit of slaveowners stating that slavery was okay because the slaves loved them and were family. Yet they would sell them if things got tough, the same way your help would find a new family if you couldn't pay her.

I have also had wonderful rrelationships with people that employed me and others that I employed but look at the number of.posters here that used the family label to show they, or their families were decent employers. Very few if anyone would say that about a more traditional employee -employer relationship. I just find it interesting from a social aspect.

In some cases it is like that and in some it isn't. I think that is what Heather is proving. In HER case, it isn't like that. In fact, she is helping those that are poorer than her by providing work. I certainly know that I was grateful for the work when I was a nanny (toss in maid as well, given that my responsibilities included cleaning the house and laundry...the only thing I didn't do was cook supper).

 

There were families where I was "the help" and "knew my place" (I wasn't allowed off for my grandmother's funeral, but the next week I was asked to stay late so they could attend THEIR grandmother's funeral). Then there were families where I went to the principal to give him an earful over "my kids" (the children I had care of) being treated abominably on the bus (bullied, abused, racist remarks because "my kids" were part Mexican). No, I didn't attend their celebrations. But I don't attend many "family" celebrations either. Relationships are complicated. There are things I will do with people that aren't family that many do with people that are ONLY family and that I won't do with my own extended family.

 

Really, I guess it couldn't be much worse than being the "adopted stepkid". I was taught my place from the beginning. I had to remember that I wasn't blood and should just be grateful that I was being provided for. I was OBLIGATED to attend certain functions. I was EXPECTED to NOT cry or act attached in public even if I was.

 

So insisting that it always is one way or can never be another just doesn't cut it with me. There is a spectrum; you can't broad brush. And yes, sometimes the family can feel one way and the help another. And sometimes it's reversed (aka Abi and the kids vs how the mothers feel about Abi...oy, I can so relate!). And sometimes its at the ends of the spectrum or runs the gamut.

Edited January 9, 2012 by mommaduck

[In2why]

I haven't read the book, nor have I seen the movie. I don't even really know what it's about other than what I've seen from posts on this thread. That alone should stop me from posting now, but ... well, I have another ten minutes to kill, and none of the other threads interest me LOL.

 

What I do know, though, are dynamics: what people likely feel, why they feel that way, and how they inevitably act on those feelings. It was interesting to read through this thread about how differently each family's dynamics understood their respective situations to be. It was heart-breaking to read of "the help" as an unappreciated, taken-for-granted servant class in some families; it was uplifting to read of employers who long visited with or contributed to the financial lives of their help, even long after the professional relationship had expired.

 

In the case of the latter, I firmly believe that these people view/ed the help as family. Particularly the kids, if the help played a large role in raising them. Even the wives, if the help played an important 'personal assistant' type role by today's standards (someone the wife could count upon as a confidante, privy to personal family information and trustworthy to not gossip about it or even acknowledge certain family faults). I have no doubt in my mind that these individuals feel that the help is their family.

 

But as much as the help loves these people, s/he will never become completely vulnerable to them; though her employers may blur the line between Help and Family, she's usually aware that she shouldn't do the same. The help always remains more vigilant -and sometimes comfortable- keeping the line between being an employee and being family crystal clear. She never forgets that it's a precarious relationship guaranteed only by terminable contract. And that expectation and warning come from her own BTDT people, not from her employers - necessarily.

 

She may love the kids like her own, she may respect the family she works for, but she's warned and smart to maintain some emotional distance, and not to fall too comfortable with the family. She may request or receive help with personal problems or issues, but that's still a benevolent courtesy of her employer (maybe even one who considers her family) and not for her to consider the unconditional act of a friend or relative. At the end of the day, she's an employee. The same could be said true of hiring a blood relative for any given job; it changes the dynamics of the relationship, and there is always a boss. The boss may love you, but you are no longer just family - employment always changes things, even between family.

 

I've seen this played out in other cultures, and can only imagine it to be as or more true given the sociohistory between Black and White Americans, particularly in the South, during the era in question.

 

 

 

I should have read ahead and just agreed because you said what I wished I was eloquent enough to have typed.

[mommaduck]

I haven't read the book, nor have I seen the movie. I don't even really know what it's about other than what I've seen from posts on this thread. That alone should stop me from posting now, but ... well, I have another ten minutes to kill, and none of the other threads interest me LOL.

 

What I do know, though, are dynamics: what people likely feel, why they feel that way, and how they inevitably act on those feelings. It was interesting to read through this thread about how differently each family's dynamics understood their respective situations to be. It was heart-breaking to read of "the help" as an unappreciated, taken-for-granted servant class in some families; it was uplifting to read of employers who long visited with or contributed to the financial lives of their help, even long after the professional relationship had expired.

 

In the case of the latter, I firmly believe that these people view/ed the help as family. Particularly the kids, if the help played a large role in raising them. Even the wives, if the help played an important 'personal assistant' type role by today's standards (someone the wife could count upon as a confidante, privy to personal family information and trustworthy to not gossip about it or even acknowledge certain family faults). I have no doubt in my mind that these individuals feel that the help is their family.

 

But as much as the help loves these people, s/he will never become completely vulnerable to them; though her employers may blur the line between Help and Family, she's usually aware that she shouldn't do the same. The help always remains more vigilant -and sometimes comfortable- keeping the line between being an employee and being family crystal clear. She never forgets that it's a precarious relationship guaranteed only by terminable contract. And that expectation and warning come from her own BTDT people, not from her employers - necessarily.

 

She may love the kids like her own, she may respect the family she works for, but she's warned and smart to maintain some emotional distance, and not to fall too comfortable with the family. She may request or receive help with personal problems or issues, but that's still a benevolent courtesy of her employer (maybe even one who considers her family) and not for her to consider the unconditional act of a friend or relative. At the end of the day, she's an employee. The same could be said true of hiring a blood relative for any given job; it changes the dynamics of the relationship, and there is always a boss. The boss may love you, but you are no longer just family - employment always changes things, even between family.

 

I've seen this played out in other cultures, and can only imagine it to be as or more true given the sociohistory between Black and White Americans, particularly in the South, during the era in question.

I think you stated this very well.

[elizabeth]

I know a woman in her 60's that grew up in Mississippi. She told me she experienced life very much like that in the book.

 

My next door neighbor is 80 and an African American. Theresa was born and raised in Jackson, Mississippi. She still will not vote. Old habits that kept her alive years ago are firmly ingrained and it breaks my heart as a precinct captain that I could not convince her to register to vote. We have her over for holidays and bring her to our home when poor weather is afoot as it is unsettling to her. We visit every time one of us is outside doing this or that. I will forever feel and know that somehow I failed her as she might die having never voted.

With regard to The Help I listened to the audio book and enjoyed it very much. However, my daughter found it to be saccharine and phony in its self reverential tone. Interesting difference there. I guess it means that I raised an independent thinker despite having home educated her from 1st grade. Good thread.

[inmyopinion]

When we were growing up we had Alice. She lived in a room off of the kitchen and dated a hot looking butcher. She helped my mom with us six kids, three stepbrothers and us three girls, the youngest one in curls. My step-dad was an architect, and we all got along pretty ok, well, except for my oldest sister Marcia. . . . of wait, that is the Brady Bunch, never mind.

 

Sorry, just had to interject some levity!

[Laurie4b]

I knew the conversation was going to go here I was just waiting. . . hoping it wasn't going to get ugly. Honestly, when I read the OP comment that the quoter above is referring to I felt something hit the pit of my stomach but I recovered b/c I have to remind myself that we all see the world from our own perspective which is deeply rooted in our own experiences. So that is to be expected.

 

These subjects should HELP (no pun intended) us have a conversation and bring understanding. None of us witnessed these things but we all fully know that the worst of things happened and the best of things happened during this time. The women who have personally had maids and witnessed "family" like treatment of their help - of course that was your family's wonderful experience so its hard to believe the horror stories. The poster who is quoted above and I have personal stories from the other side of things that our grandmothers and great aunts experienced (I will spare you the details). The emotions still run deep on both sides of the fence (which is amazing to me) but that is just the reality of our American story. One poster hit the nail on the head when commenting about being the minority in any group can possibly set you up for abuses or mistreatment every time no matter your race.

 

You know what is interesting to me - I live in a very diverse group area with homeschoolers from all races and walks of life but white homeschoolers are still the majority. I can feel the wall go up when I enter a homeschool function where people don't quite know me yet so I do the song and dance to make everyone feel comfortable that hey I'm here for the same reason you are here for and its OKAY.... it's funny but it is what it is. We still do have a RACE issue in this country - it's subtle but we have it and it runs really deep. We will never understand fully the other guy's experience and emotions but we can be cordial, kind, and respectful.

 

Can we go back to talking about something we all can agree on - homeschooling? Oh...that's right we have divisions there as well - classical, unschooling, school at home, charlotte mason .... :lol:

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

 

Are you sure there's really a "wall going up" and that you're not projecting your assumptions on the people you meet at the homeschool functions? I'm not saying that's the case, but if you assume that the people will be uncomfortable with you (for whatever reason,) and do a "song and dance to make everyone feel comfortable," maybe you're doing more than is necessary to be accepted.

 

Also, some groups aren't that excited about new members, no matter what race they may be, and some will have issues with new people because they seem too rich, too poor, too loud, too shy, or any number of other silly reasons. It honestly may not be a racial thing.

 

Many people feel a little awkward when they join a new group or attend a function where they don't know anyone, and they worry that they'll say something stupid, or that they look fat, or that they look too old or too young, or whatever -- when none of those concerns may be at all valid in terms of what they people they meet may think of them.

 

I'm sorry if you've had issues as a result of your race. In our area, I don't think it would make a difference. I'm not saying that everyone would rush over to welcome you, but they probably wouldn't rush over to meet me any more quickly, either.

 

 

I think that someone's sense something "feeling the wall go up" is a valid data point. Reading body language is something we all do--some of us are better than it than others, but we all do it. Yes, it's subjective to an extent and yes we can take our preconceived notions into it. That works both ways. However, it's REAL. And African Americans and others not of a majority have had a whole lifetime to figure out which body language means: "Uh-oh. There's some racial stuff going on here" and when body language means: "We aren't too quick to warm up with newcomers."

 

People of the majority culture, which in the US are white, typically haven't had nearly that many experiences of being in situations in which they are a distinct minority and have to sort through body language to decide what the intent is and whether there's part of it that is about ethnic distinctions. I can tell you, though, when I walked into a party on the arm of my AA boyfriend back in the day and I was the only white person in the room, I really don't think the body language of the sisters present was because I was a new woman they hadn't met before. :lol: You can disagree with me if you'd like, but I'll never believe you: I was there!

 

I have heard my AA friends describe needing to wear their "white face" meaning they cannot take exactly who they are into a majority white crowd without making some waves, however subtle, being misinterpreted, etc. And I have seen with my own eyes my closest AA friend, with whom I work, be misinterpreted at work where she is the only AA for behavior that is way on the reserved side for an African American woman, but a little too "out there" (blunt, "tellin it like it is", more emotive) for a group that is mostly white. We once had a "share your feelings" meeting following a lay off. At the end, all of the white people felt like the meeting had been really good--kind of a "just right" feeling; the Asian woman felt overwhelmed with all the emoting that had gone on, and my AA friend felt like no one had really been real and shared! We got a good laugh out of that.

 

Some racial differences can be really subtle , like someone comes in looking for the director and knows the person's name, but hasn't met her. There are two people in the room: one white, one black. She turns to the white person and says, "Ms. Director?" not even noticing that there was no way to tell which was the director and which wasn't. Real experience, not mine, but I've done stuff like that myself, totally unintentionally. Afterward I realized that it revealed that I had certain preconceptions that I actually didn't agree with cognitively, but had nonetheless acted on.

 

Other things are not subtle, like profiling. So we all may know one, or maybe two, people who are not AA who were pulled over under conditions in which they really didn't think they had done anything that warranted getting pulled over. So on the one hand, you could say, "Well, it happens to everyone"--until you find out that it's happened to every.single.AA man you ask. My AA girlfriend will not let her husband, also AA, jog at night. She doesn't want him to be the black man running at the wrong place, wrong time. I might be afraid my dh could get hit by a car when jogging at night, but it would never cross my mind that he would be putting himself at risk of false arrest. My friend shops till she drops and gets followed regularly in stores. They *ought* to be following her around because she's going to drop so much $$, but that's not the reason. Last time she was followed around was in Whole Foods of all places. Frankly, that would get on my nerves big time. She has a very laid back forgiving attitude about everything. So she's the person I think of talking to when I am struggling with forgiving someone.

 

Piles of experiences like those above could possibly skew someone's perspective--but the lack of experiences like these day-in-day-out could also skew a white person's perspective. We might never notice the subtle cues being given off when a person of color enters the room--or might interpret those cues through our own frame of reference which may include few if any experiences as a minority.

 

It's really good when we can talk about these issues openly.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Laurie4b

[Heather in Neverland]

You are either missing my point or making it. Of course the relationship is great for you, of course you consider her, family, but I wasn't talking about the employer, but the "help" What if they don't want to be your family, moreso in another country?

Ah, but she does and has said so numerous times. She refers to dd as her "daughter". She said if and when we move backto the states she wants to come with us because she loves us. She said she will stay with us until she dies because she loves us. She said she is happy to have us in her family and she thanks God every day because this situation feels like a real family and not just being someone's maid, etc.

 

If the maid was the best maid in the world, but wasn't warm and fuzzy would you still love and value her? Absolutely. In fact, when she was first hired she wasn't all that warm and fuzzy. She maintained a distance from us. But when I made her see that she can trust us, that we love her, she let her guard down. The first night she finally sat at our table had dinner with us almost made me cry I was so happy. It meant she finally saw US as family. As Christians we are sisters and I could not let her feel inferior.

 

What does the "help" owe you (as in the general you) Why is being part of the family seen as the decent thing? Because I am a Christian. And so is she. We ARE family. I think it is wonderful that you have the relationship you do, and is fabulous for the kids, but talking generally, people saying the help are like family reminds me a bit of slaveowners stating that slavery was okay because the slaves loved them and were family. Yet they would sell them if things got tough, the same way your help would find a new family if you couldn't pay her. She would have to in order to survive but she would still come to our home for dinner and birthdays and holidays and we would still have tea together and go out to dinner together like we do now (she loves american food!) We have already talked about it. And if we leave we will continue to send here money as a pension since they do not have any social security in Malaysia.

 

I have also had wonderful rrelationships with people that employed me and others that I employed but look at the number of.posters here that used the family label to show they, or their families were decent employers. Very few if anyone would say that about a more traditional employee -employer relationship. I just find it interesting from a social aspect. I am not denying that at all. But I want to point out that LOTS of places of business refer to their group of employees as "like family" . We say that all the time at the schools I have worked in and it is not demeaning or disingenuous or have any nefarious purpose. It just means that we really care about one another as more than just an employee..

.

[Jennifer3141]

I paid my sister her regular rate to care for my kids at her in-home day care before they were school age. I can't imagine not paying her for her time, and she most certainly is family. Granted, it's not the same thing we're talking about here, but I think it's relevant to the discussion. It's presumptuous to say that if you pay someone for a service of some kind, it's delusional or insulting to consider them "like family." Just because it isn't true for you doesn't mean others' experiences and feelings are not genuine or legitimate.

 

 

That would be quite a different dynamic than I have with my family. I live 150 miles from them so the times they've "babysat" have been when DH and I ran for groceries or to get take out. If I had a family member I trusted enough to watch my children enough that there was a "regular" rate involved that would be something altogether different. I would drop my kids off on my family in an emergency and not expect to pay them. I would NOT do the same to my babysitter.

 

Another difference in my life than The Help is that both the cleaning ladies I've employed and our babysitter and I are the same race.

[Hoggirl]

When we were growing up we had Alice. She lived in a room off of the kitchen and dated a hot looking butcher. She helped my mom with us six kids, three stepbrothers and us three girls, the youngest one in curls. My step-dad was an architect, and we all got along pretty ok, well, except for my oldest sister Marcia. . . . of wait, that is the Brady Bunch, never mind.

 

Sorry, just had to interject some levity!

 

Too funny! :lol:

[Laurie4b]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

My mother's people are native to Texas. Many stories of what they have experienced were not so delightful.

 

 

 

 

One such story from my grandmother who worked as a cook in the 1940's -- and her employer (family) were not that great to work for as they were mean spirited. One day, my granny was making a pie. She set the pie down in a pie safe (wooden/tin furniture) out on the summer porch (where one cooked when it was hot in the south).

 

Hours later, she was horrified to see the pie nibbled on by a mouse. Her employer was calling out for dessert (not too nicely, I must add) by that time. Granny I guess just lost her temper at that moment -- it was like the straw that broke the camel's back. She looked around the pie safe and floor for mouse droppings. Added some to the pie slice (it was the portion the mouse nibbled on) and covered her wicked deed with lots of whipped cream. And she served it with a smile. :lol: Granny said it was the best revenge she had in her life.

 

And yes, I do believe folks do that to rude or nasty folk. Haven't you heard of waitresses or cooks spitting in food that is sent back? I recall one person spitting in a customer's plate -- Aaaaaauuuggh. :001_huh:

 

Though I didn't do it, there was an incident when I was working as a bartender and a woman ordered chili. She had been an absolute _____ (fill in your word of choice), and when I picked up the chili to serve her, I actually stood there in the kitchen thinking about whether to spit in it or not. (I am not proud of this, just confessing!) I thought about how if I did spit in it, 1) it would not hurt her, but 2) I could serve her with a smile the rest of the night. I ended up not doing it, but it was touch and go there for a couple minutes.

 

Don't be obnoxious in restaurants. :lol:

[jamajo]

My next door neighbor is 80 and an African American. Theresa was born and raised in Jackson, Mississippi. She still will not vote. Old habits that kept her alive years ago are firmly ingrained and it breaks my heart as a precinct captain that I could not convince her to register to vote. We have her over for holidays and bring her to our home when poor weather is afoot as it is unsettling to her. We visit every time one of us is outside doing this or that. I will forever feel and know that somehow I failed her as she might die having never voted.

With regard to The Help I listened to the audio book and enjoyed it very much. However, my daughter found it to be saccharine and phony in its self reverential tone. Interesting difference there. I guess it means that I raised an independent thinker despite having home educated her from 1st grade. Good thread.

 

Kudos to you for doing the right thing even when this woman feels uncomfortable. There should be more people like you.

[Mothersweets]

When we were growing up we had Alice. She lived in a room off of the kitchen and dated a hot looking butcher. She helped my mom with us six kids, three stepbrothers and us three girls, the youngest one in curls. My step-dad was an architect, and we all got along pretty ok, well, except for my oldest sister Marcia. . . . of wait, that is the Brady Bunch, never mind.

 

Sorry, just had to interject some levity!

 

:lol: Tee hee!

[jamajo]

I think that someone's sense something "feeling the wall go up" is a valid data point. Reading body language is something we all do--some of us are better than it than others, but we all do it. Yes, it's subjective to an extent and yes we can take our preconceived notions into it. That works both ways. However, it's REAL. And African Americans and others not of a majority have had a whole lifetime to figure out which body language means: "Uh-oh. There's some racial stuff going on here" and when body language means: "We aren't too quick to warm up with newcomers."

 

People of the majority culture, which in the US are white, typically haven't had nearly that many experiences of being in situations in which they are a distinct minority and have to sort through body language to decide what the intent is and whether there's part of it that is about ethnic distinctions. I can tell you, though, when I walked into a party on the arm of my AA boyfriend back in the day and I was the only white person in the room, I really don't think the body language of the sisters present was because I was a new woman they hadn't met before. :lol: You can disagree with me if you'd like, but I'll never believe you: I was there!

 

I have heard my AA friends describe needing to wear their "white face" meaning they cannot take exactly who they are into a majority white crowd without making some waves, however subtle, being misinterpreted, etc. And I have seen with my own eyes my closest AA friend, with whom I work, be misinterpreted at work where she is the only AA for behavior that is way on the reserved side for an African American woman, but a little too "out there" (blunt, "tellin it like it is", more emotive) for a group that is mostly white. We once had a "share your feelings" meeting following a lay off. At the end, all of the white people felt like the meeting had been really good--kind of a "just right" feeling; the Asian woman felt overwhelmed with all the emoting that had gone on, and my AA friend felt like no one had really been real and shared! We got a good laugh out of that.

 

Some racial differences can be really subtle , like someone comes in looking for the director and knows the person's name, but hasn't met her. There are two people in the room: one white, one black. She turns to the white person and says, "Ms. Director?" not even noticing that there was no way to tell which was the director and which wasn't. Real experience, not mine, but I've done stuff like that myself, totally unintentionally. Afterward I realized that it revealed that I had certain preconceptions that I actually didn't agree with cognitively, but had nonetheless acted on.

 

Other things are not subtle, like profiling. So we all may know one, or maybe two, people who are not AA who were pulled over under conditions in which they really didn't think they had done anything that warranted getting pulled over. So on the one hand, you could say, "Well, it happens to everyone"--until you find out that it's happened to every.single.AA man you ask. My AA girlfriend will not let her husband, also AA, jog at night. She doesn't want him to be the black man running at the wrong place, wrong time. I might be afraid my dh could get hit by a car when jogging at night, but it would never cross my mind that he would be putting himself at risk of false arrest. My friend shops till she drops and gets followed regularly in stores. They *ought* to be following her around because she's going to drop so much $$, but that's not the reason. Last time she was followed around was in Whole Foods of all places. Frankly, that would get on my nerves big time. She has a very laid back forgiving attitude about everything. So she's the person I think of talking to when I am struggling with forgiving someone.

 

Piles of experiences like those above could possibly skew someone's perspective--but the lack of experiences like these day-in-day-out could also skew a white person's perspective. We might never notice the subtle cues being given off when a person of color enters the room--or might interpret those cues through our own frame of reference which may include few if any experiences as a minority.

 

It's really good when we can talk about these issues openly.

 

OMG.....OMG.... you have no idea how so right on this is! There are some cultural differences (generally speaking) that you really only understand when you are in the culture or have a lot of experience with it like obviously you do. The emotion, the down to earth "tell it like it is" is so true and that can often times be a barrier to relationships and cause misunderstandings. I use to work at a college where the head of admissions was AA and the head of the business office was white. The white business woman cried coming out of a meeting one time with the Admissions Director b/c of their discussion. The Director was like :confused: b/c she thought she was just communicating but the business office lady thought she was being yelled at. Funny story but anyway....

 

I know what your friends mean about putting on the "face." I wouldn't have described it as such but basically you have to match the tone of the group you are with to get along in the group. But this is true of any type of group. To fit in you have to imitate to a certain degree but be authentic b/c people can tell when you are being fake. Ever seen the Everybody Loves Raymond episode when Robert starts hanging out with his partner (who is AA)? Remember howhe began to change to fit in but in the end the partner just wanted him to be himself? CLASSIC but there is a lot of truth in that scenario.

 

This is a really good conversation and does help to bring down barriers as long as we keep the emotions in check.

Edited January 9, 2012 by jamajo

[jamajo]

 

People of the majority culture, which in the US are white,

 

Checked census numbers lately? Might not be the majority anymore.

 

There are two people in the room: one white, one black. She turns to the white person and says, "Ms. Director?" not even noticing that there was no way to tell which was the director and which wasn't. Real experience, not mine, but I've done stuff like that myself, totally unintentionally. Afterward I realized that it revealed that I had certain preconceptions that I actually didn't agree with cognitively, but had nonetheless acted on.

 

It is very mature of you to realize this fact. My husband brings this to my attention when I do it to other people groups. And we can all relate to the generalization that people make about homeschoolers.

[ma23peas]

Why is being part of the family seen as the decent thing? I think it is wonderful that you have the relationship you do, and is fabulous for the kids, but talking generally, people saying the help are like family reminds me a bit of slaveowners stating that slavery was okay because the slaves loved them and were family. Yet they would sell them if things got tough, the same way your help would find a new family if you couldn't pay her.

 

Then what would you say if things did get rough and the help continued to come? Would that then mean they were 'family'? I just am amazed that some find it so hard to understand what others of us have lived....partly because they have either been influenced by how the media portrays 'history' or how their lack of experience has found it hard to accept what others are saying were their experiences. I feel a reluctance for some to accept anything that is contrary to their previous held beliefs. I am lucky we had help that came when there was no money, many true 'family' members today do not...believe me, we know what family is.

[Heather in Neverland]

Then what would you say if things did get rough and the help continued to come? Would that then mean they were 'family'? I just am amazed that some find it so hard to understand what others of us have lived....partly because they have either been influenced by how the media portrays 'history' or how their lack of experience has found it hard to accept what others are saying were their experiences. I feel a reluctance for some to accept anything that is contrary to their previous held beliefs. I am lucky we had help that came when there was no money, many true 'family' members today do not...believe me, we know what family is.

 

Amen

[Laurie4b]

Checked census numbers lately? Might not be the majority anymore.

 

.

 

I think it's still true overall. Is already not true some places. Won't be true most places in the near future. That transition will be an eye opener!

[littleWMN]

I was raised in AR and still live here. The county I was raised in had NO blacks at all. And people in general were quite proud of that. I have been gone from that county for almost 30 years...my niece and nephew have been raised up in that school system and I hear there are now a few blacks in town. Racism in that town was alive and well when I was growing up and not much better now.

 

Where did you grow up (and where are you now)? We lived in a town with no blacks when we adopted our black child. She was treated well (but mixed race couples were not) but we only lived there until she was two.

[Susan in TN]

:001_huh:

 

My grandparents aren't from the south - they grew up in Missouri and lived all over the place, so your generalizations don't apply here. Would you have made the same insinuations had I posted that they met him when they lived on Long Island?

 

I keep typing things out and erasing them - that is a sign to me that I need to stop posting. I don't get emotional over threads anymore.;) Maybe I am just ultra-sensitive because Arbie died right before Thanksgiving, but either way, I will bow out here.

 

I just wanted to point out that close friends of the family are often referred to as being "like family". Maybe not exactly like being a blood relative, but someone you care about deeply and love. I'm guessing this is the kind of relationship your family had with Arbie and that is a good thing. The fact that he was employed by your family and was of a different race doesn't automatically discount the relationship you had. I'm sorry for your loss. We lost a "like family" member just before Christmas, too.

[thowell]

My dh and I are not racist. He was raised in a small town in Florida very poor and more times than not his best friends were AA. I on the other hand was raised in different places by a military father who was born and raised in Baldwin, MS. My father was very racist. However, the other day my dd9 and I were in Walmart. I was busy looking at something and she said "Oh, that scared me". I turned to see what she was talking about and it was a large AA man that had just walked past her. I asked her why it would scare her. She said because he was so big ( in all fairness he was like 6'4"). I ask her if he had been white would it still have scared her? She really had to think about this. I tried to explain to her that this was a form of racial thinking. Now, where did she get that from? We have never taught her that and she has been homeschooled since K. My father is deceased since she was 3 months old. How does this slip into our children? How does this slip into our lives. As white women are you just as afraid outside a store at night with a white man as you are an AA man? I feel it is these basic thought processes that keep racism alive.

 

Just a side note. A question I have always wanted to know, (PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE) what is the proper term to refer to a black person. I know at one time it was AA. However, I have met alot of AA that will say they do not want to be called that because they aren't from Africa. Just asking as to not offend anyone.