Switching from SM to LoF?

[Elizabeth in MN]

My daughter is having a hard time with Math. She understands it, but really hates the subject. Currently she's in SM 3A. Multiplication and division bore her literally to tears. She tries to go through it quickly and will forget steps because of this. Writing things out is abhorrent to her - she wants to do it all in her head. However, when she does this she often forgets that she has carried or borrowed.

 

So I am thinking that a switch to Life of Fred may be in order. I don't know what to order, though. Fractions seems like it's the next step beyond where she is at.

 

Advice?

[HollyDay]

We have used LOF Fractions, Decimals, and Percents as a supplement. I've not used it as a stand alone, but an IRL gf is, and loves it. The books "below" Fractions, Decimals, and Percents are fairly new and I don't know anything about it. I also don't know anything about SM. So, why am I responding:)

 

LOF is a totally different approach to any other math program I have ever seen. It might just strike a cord with your dc and be the solution because it is so different. But, I wonder if the problem will just transition over to LOF. She will still need to do the math (write it out, do the steps in order, check her work, get the correct answer or redo the problem). Does SM cover only one topic at a time, so she is doing "just" division, or "just" multiplication? If so, then a program that covers multiple topics per lesson might be of more interest. Or, would she find a computer based program like TT more enjoyable.

 

From your post, it sounds like she knows how to do the material and is just tired of the drill (?). If so, move on to another topic. Give enough multiplication and division to keep her skills, but give her another topic to peak her math interest.

[EKS]

My daughter is having a hard time with Math. She understands it, but really hates the subject.

 

I would not use Life of Fred with a child who is having a hard time with math. While the story is engaging, there is *very little* actual math instruction.

 

Disclaimer: I have only used Fred Fractions, Decimals, and Prelagebra.

[Candid]

If she is understanding SM but dislikes writing stuff down, then don't make her. My youngest is now doing NEM 1 with very little writing down. He misses one or two problems in an exercise sets and usually the miss is close so I am sure some of it is too much in his head.

 

If he misses a lot in an exercise set then he redoes them, one or two, we move on. Tests, he is warned in advance that there are five possible tests at each test junction. If he wants to only take one, he makes a perfect score on it. And thus far he's done that.

 

It sounds like your dd might be the same. The hard part is restraining your own desire for writing down and absolute perfection on exercises, I remind myself that they are practice sets and that practice makes perfect.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

IMHO there are going to be things that kids will not want to do or bore them but IMO there is value in learning how to cope with things that are boring so to speak since as adults in our jobs we may have to do some things that are boring. Obviously, I want ds to enjoy school work as much as possible but that is not always possible. School work requires a certain amount of hard work and I do not see that as a bad thing since our lives will always require a certain amount of hard work.

 

Math requires a certain amount of practice. It is not my ds's favorite so we do it first thing in the morning. I try to show how math applies to his life as well and his possible career choices. Sometimes we mix up and use a white board or watch Khan Academy but he still gets a certain amount of paper and pencil time every single math class of at least 20 problems or so. I think the use of hand and eye most definitely helps to cement knowledge.

[Arch at Home]

Our experience is that 3A is too early to switch to LoF Fractions. The child needs to be able to comfortably multiply and divide 3 or moe digit. My kids were not able to do this after 3A.

[TKDmom]

I let my dd start LoF Fractions (as a supplement) after SM 3B, and it is tougher than it seems at first glance. My dd loves Fred, but she had the hardest time passing the bridge after ch 10. It had her in tears because she kept missing 2 problems (she needed a 9 out 10 to pass). I wouldn't use it as a stand-alone math program at this point. Fractions was intended as a pre-algebra course, and the student is expected to thoroughly understand long division.

 

I don't see any harm in doing it for fun, but I'd have another math program going at the same time, so that you can back off from LoF if it turns out to be too difficult.

 

ETA: My dd really hated SM, too. I felt like she understood math, but she insisted that she was horrible at math and that it was boring. She also insisted on trying to do it all in her head and made all kinds of careless mistakes. I just recently realized that she needs a spiral math program. She hated doing the same topic for several weeks and got grumpier and grumpier about math the longer she stuck to one topic. I've switched her to TT. It's too early to tell how that will work for her, but right now I'm enjoying the lack of complaints. ;)

Edited December 12, 2011 by bonniebeth4

[....]

Our experience is that 3A is too early to switch to LoF Fractions. The child needs to be able to comfortably multiply and divide 3 or moe digit. My kids were not able to do this after 3A.

 

Yes. One of my kids worked through LoF Fractions and you need to know long division.

[Laura Corin]

Is she a child who likes to explore maths, or one who would rather be told what to do and get the maths finished as soon as possible? I think that LOF is not a good fit for the latter kind of kid, especially in the later stages. Calvin used LOF Fractions, and Decimals and Percents as supplements, and they worked well. When we tried to use Algebra as a stand-alone, he was just frustrated by the low level of explicit instructions: he just didn't want to spend the time to work the answers out. FWIW, he's pretty good at maths, just not interested in it.

 

Laura

[NittanyJen]

I let my dd start LoF Fractions (as a supplement) after SM 3B, and it is tougher than it seems at first glance. My dd loves Fred, but she had the hardest time passing the bridge after ch 10. It had her in tears because she kept missing 2 problems (she needed a 9 out 10 to pass). I wouldn't use it as a stand-alone math program at this point. Fractions was intended as a pre-algebra course, and the student is expected to thoroughly understand long division.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

LoF Fractions works best for a kiddo who has thoroughly mastered long division and can do it reliably. It's a great program, and will definitely reinforce those skills, and will absolutely nail down fractions for many kids (my DS10 will never need any other instruction for fractions or Dec & %, and is finding AoPS Pre-Algebra trivial after LoF) but my DS8 is currently in Singapore 3A, and even looking at 3B, I think it's too early for even a gifted math student to jump into LoF Fractions.

 

DS8 also gets frustrated in Singapore level 3 at times; he has gotten so good at the mental math that he thinks he should be able to do ALL math mentally! But I have to back him up in long division and insist that he write down all of the steps, because he gets it wrong, as he doesn't yet understand it well enough to intuit what he's doing when he's breaking down the numbers. We're also still working on solidifying those number bonds for mult/division.

 

We made that last bit kind of fun the other day. I made little flash cards out of half-size index cards, and we set them out in an array, and I gave him a penny and told him to flip the coin. Whatever card his penny landed on, he had to answer that question, and check it by flipping the card-- get it right, he keeps the card. Big brother played too. If he got the question wrong, his card was added to big brother's pile instead of his. When the cards were gone, we spread out big brother's stack and started over-- the goal was to eventually win all of the cards (big brother doesn't get any wrong, and did drop out after a couple of rounds).

 

This had the benefit of not involving any writing :). Per another post, we also shake things up a bit by writing on white boards, on the windows, use Cuisinaire rods, Khan Academy, draw pictures of cookies, etc. Although I don't want math to be a chore, sometimes you do also have to suck it up and do the stuff you don't want to do in order to get good at it.

 

Good luck! I might not give up on Singapore quite yet if it is working well otherwise! There will be time for Fred a little bit later.

 

Jen

[Elizabeth in MN]

Normally my daughter hates any form of repletion. As a Kindergartener she loathed Saxon because of all the repetition. We tried public school which was using the Chicago stuff, and that was a total bomb. When she came back home we started up with Singapore and have blasted through it until we hit the stage she needed her multiplication tables memorized. We are working on them through flash cards and games on her iTouch. But sitting down at the table and doing one page a day? Oi, let me get the violin and tell you a tale of woe! :lurk5:

 

I do agree that there is work in the world that just needs to be dealt with. Anyone want to fill out some TPS reports? LOL! So we do have the talk, and even have a little pie chart on the back of one of her bookmarks. But it still only gets us so far.

 

Thanks all of you for the advice! I'm gonna hold off switching to LoF for now.

[MIch elle]

I would not use Life of Fred with a child who is having a hard time with math. While the story is engaging, there is *very little* actual math instruction.

 

Disclaimer: I have only used Fred Fractions, Decimals, and Prelagebra.

 

:iagree: based on using only LOF algebra.

[Testimony]

Our experience is that 3A is too early to switch to LoF Fractions. The child needs to be able to comfortably multiply and divide 3 or moe digit. My kids were not able to do this after 3A.

 

:iagree:

 

I know nothing about the lower level books because I started with Life of Fred when it was Fractions first. You definitely have to master 3A and B before attempting LOF Fractions. Does the HIG offer any help? I know that 3A &B is where the child starts to learn the bar diagrams.

 

I just think that LOF can be challenging just as much as SM. My younger son did not like LOF, even though it was a goofy approach math in a fun way. He grueled over it. It was a drudgery to get through every chapter and the chapters were short.

 

My older son understood what Dr. Schmidt was talking about in LOF. He would laugh until his stomach hurt. It was a fun book for him.

 

That's just my experience!

 

Blessings in your homeschooling journey!

 

Merry Christmas!

 

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

Edited December 20, 2011 by Testimony

[Karenciavo]

As far as math programs go, Singapore Math has very little writing. Teach her short division if you like, but other than that I would have this battle about writing things down now. Believe me, it's a bad habit that will harm her down the road.

[chepyl]

My sob like to do problems in his head too. He feels like he has failed if he has to write a problem out. I let him do it in his head, of he misses the problem, he writes that one out. He generally writes out 2-3 problems a day. It is a fight for those few problems, but showing work is important enough to fight over. Later, he will need to show work on harder problems amd I want him to be used to it.

[NittanyJen]

Math instructors think of it this way: the answer is the least important part of the problem.

 

Math is about logic, not about the final answer (in the learning stage; yes, we do want the engineer building our bridges to get the correct numbers-- all the more reason to ensure he gets to his answers through correct logic!)

 

If your child is writing an essay, do you tell him to skip the introduction and development of his argument, and write down only his conclusion? So should math students write out at least some of their problems. It isn't just a matter of the math getting hard; it is the process of demonstrating the logical process used.

[Julie Smith]

My son is the same way as many mentioned here. He likes to try to do all the Singapore math problems in his head.

 

If he isn't able to quickly give me the right answer - then he has to write it down.

 

If he is doing many without writing them down I do ask him how he is getting the correct answer. He is always able to explain explain the steps. With his writing improving he is fighting about writing less and less.