i know i'm new here, but i'm desperate! please help me!

[jackson'smama]

my ds 7 has challenged me to the point where i have no idea what to do and i have found no resource truly helpful.

he has a 4 yo brother and 1 yo sister. we are having MAJOR issues of bad attitude, wanting to be in charge and in control of EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE, being violent with younger brother (snatching toys, demanding that he share with him but not doing the same in return, demanding that he play with him or leave him alone, smacking, kicking, yelling, etc....whenever he wants his own way in a situation).

we homeschool, but oldest plays baseball and is in scouts and we participate in a co-op. he doesn't treat any other children this way - just his brother.

i've read every book you can imagine about this.

i've heard all kinds of people say "i don't tolerate _____ behavior in my kids", but i never hear any concrete advice on what they do if their kids exhibit that behavior.

time out type stuff REALLY escalates the situation. he goes from angry to furious and basically won't comply. i think we'd probably have to get physical with him to get him to go along with this.

talking about stuff either causes him to shut down, talk beligerantly, or fight back tears and act like nothing is wrong???!?!?!!

he keeps saying things like "i'll be nice to Noah if you stop being mad about it". i don't know what he's trying to convey here. i've tried communicating how we express emotion and that i get sad and angry when he hurts his brother but that i never stop loving him.

i don't know ....i just feel like i've talked til i'm blue in the face and it's just.not.working.

not to mention the fact that he never wants to do school and gives me huge attitude about it every.single.time. and says things like "why doesn't Noah have to?" i explain Noah's abilities and the requirements of him as a 4 yo but that makes no difference. it's like he's got this HUGE issue with fairness and control and i just don't know how to help him.

last night, dh said, anytime there is an offense (e.g. he hits his brother), we need to take away a bag of legos (his prized possession) til he's lost them all. i said ok, what about when noah wants to play legos? and how is it helping get to the root of the problem by taking away a toy? is that going about it the right way or not? i am so lost and desperate for help.

if you've read all of this thank you. if you can offer me any tips, i would be so grateful!

[Guest submarines]

Poor guy. He probably feels that he can't do anything right, and is stuck in the vicious negative circle. DD and I went through several cycles like this. She is very strong willed, so punishment that I'm okay with (a time out) doesn't work for her and only makes her angry, which pretty much negates the point.

 

I don't see how taking prized posessions away can help the situation. It will only breed resentment and more anger.

 

For me, focusing, very intently, on connecting with my DD works the best. It is a challenge, because when things are bad, I often even can't find anything positive about her--this is a sign for me that we both really need to reconnect. Before doing anything disciplinary, any reaction, I ask myself whether it will bring us closer. If it doesn't, I try to find a different way to approach the issue.

 

:grouphug: I hope you find something that works for your family.

[Amy in NH]

I'm one of those people who don't tolerate that type of behavior from my kids.

 

123 Magic. Watch the video. Works like a charm. If he really becomes enraged, remove anything from his bedroom that could be damaged or damaging and put a lock on the outside of the door if you need to. He needs to get himself under control before he can rejoin the family.

 

Sit with him while he's doing his schoolwork. My kids can't stay on task unless I'm right there with them until they reach about 13 or 14. Get something to do (knitting?) while you're sitting there so you don't go bonkers.

 

Give him control over small things; choices about food, clothing, which book to read, which subject to do next, and other little things during the day.

 

When he isn't being difficult, make some quiet Mommy time for only him every day. Have him help with making dinner, folding the laundry, doing maintenance/repairs, etc. Possibly he's not getting enough of that with two younger siblings who need you more than he does most of the time.

 

Fairness doesn't mean everyone gets the same thing; it means everyone gets what they need when they need it.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Amy in NH

[jackson'smama]

thank you for replying. i feel like this. i see exactly what you are saying. and i do feel like the connection is needed but it is so difficult b/c with having a 4yo and a 1yo as well. i know that isn't an excuse, but i sometimes just can't manage the logistics and i don't know HOW to change that.

just a little while ago, we were trying to do schoolwork and the thirty minutes we tried, at least 20 of it involved some time of complaining/talking about his complaining. seriously. he never wants to do anything but play and have ZERO responsibility. don't tell him what to do. don't give him any chores.

i just feel so tired.

thanks again for replying!

[jackson'smama]

For me, focusing, very intently, on connecting with my DD works the best.

 

pretend i have no clue here and tell me what this means. what do you do exactly? seriously!

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Whatever you do please do not use physical punishment with him. This is not a spanking vs. not spanking statement. I have just never known anyone with an angry, explosive child who was helped by physical punishment.

 

When you talk to him about it during a non-explosive time what is his take on it? I agree with a pp, he must feel like he can't do anything right.

[Guest submarines]

thank you for replying. i feel like this. i see exactly what you are saying. and i do feel like the connection is needed but it is so difficult b/c with having a 4yo and a 1yo as well. i know that isn't an excuse' date=' but i sometimes just can't manage the logistics and i don't know HOW to change that.

just a little while ago, we were trying to do schoolwork and the thirty minutes we tried, at least 20 of it involved some time of complaining/talking about his complaining. seriously. he never wants to do anything but play and have ZERO responsibility. don't tell him what to do. don't give him any chores.

i just feel so tired.

thanks again for replying![/quote']

 

:grouphug: I know many here won't agree, but I find the book Hold on to Your Kids, by Gordon Neufeld, incredibly empowering.

 

He stipulates that children do not an immediate correction when they've done something wrong. They already feel bad, and the correction will only backfire--they are not receptive in that state of mind. When things start going sour, and I see DD starting the downward spiral, I stop what I was trying to do with her, and focus on something really pleasant for her for the next 5-10 minutes.

 

I call her over, and say, "Let's google knitting patterns together on Ravelry," or "Wanna drink some tea with me, and we can read a book together?" (something that she likes).

 

It really helps. Most of the time, within minutes, she will apologise, and tell me that she's feeling much better. When she was younger, it used to take longer for her. It is also important to do this intervention when things are just starting to go sour. It works faster this way.

 

Some might say I'm rewarding her bad behaviour, but the results speak for themselves--she feels better, she acknowledges her wrong doings, the frequency of her 'bad' behaviour gets reduced. There's no negatives attached. She is not becoming a brat. When we connect like this, I can literally see how her tension leaves her body. She relaxes, her breathing relaxes, she exhales several times. It really does help.

 

You will also notice from my siggy that I'm not a pure classical homeschooler. I don't hesitate to take a break from lessons if she is not doing well emotionally. From my perspective, she is not going to love learning, and is not going to learn anything meaningful when she is feeling stressed, anxious, and out of control. They catch up very quickly when they feel great on the inside. I don't think a sense of responsibilities develops out of being forced to do things while a child is figuring out how to deal with his or her emotions.

 

Hang in there. Things will get better.

[Unicorn.]

Fairness doesn't mean everyone gets the same thing; it means everyone gets what they need when they need it.

 

Amy, I love this!

 

 

I have a ds like this. He's 15 now. What I would have done different w/ him if I could go back in time:(we do some of this now, it just looks a little different for a 15 year old)

 

1. When he talks ugly to a parent or sibling, tell him a nicer way to talk to them, have him repeat it until he can speak politely.

 

2. Time out. If behavior escalates in time out-send him to his room. He can rejoin the family when he can act/speak properly. If it happens again- back to his room he goes.

 

One question- is he getting enough sleep? Does he wake several times during the night? If he isn't getting a good night's sleep, you might look into valerian root. 2 of my kids have sleep disturbances that contribute to anger issues.

[jackson'smama]

Whatever you do please do not use physical punishment with him. This is not a spanking vs. not spanking statement. I have just never known anyone with an angry, explosive child who was helped by physical punishment.

 

When you talk to him about it during a non-explosive time what is his take on it? I agree with a pp, he must feel like he can't do anything right.

 

ITA...physical punishment is NOT an option. period.

 

talking about it....he generally acts like he's fighting back tears saying, "just stop talking about it" or "i don't know". i guess he's too young to have an actual back and forth conversation, but he is definitely emotional about it. he cares, i know he does (wrt his brother), but he just doesn't know how to change his behavior in the moment and we have not been able to come up with anything that's helping him. again, it makes me feel like such a failure.

[Guest submarines]

pretend i have no clue here and tell me what this means. what do you do exactly? seriously!

 

I really focus on the relationship, which is hard, because I get affected by her behaviour and my instinctive response might be more negative or even explosive, than I'd want it to be. I don't want my reactions to push her further away.

 

I just wrote a little bit about it in my other post in this thread, but I will try to give more examples.

 

I focus on the positive intent. If she yells at her brother, my first inclination is to yell STOP IT. But this doesn't lead to connection. Instead I call her over, and tell her that it *is* difficult to have a younger sibling. He is loud, he interrupts, he stands on his head (literally) and falls on her while she's reading in her reading corner. She usually makes a long list of why her brother is absolutely terrible to have around. :tongue_smilie: Then I tell her that even though feeling like that is totally fine, yelling at him is not acceptable. I might also to spend 5 minutes with her starting her on something that she loves doing. Or we just cuddle. It works much better this way.

 

So much depends on a child's personality. She has anxiety issues, sensory issues, very stubborn, tends to want to control the situation, tends to be explosive. None of the parenting books ever seemed to help. Taking her things away, increasing punishements, would not work with her personality. Those who say that those things 'work' don't have a child like mine.

 

On a side note, after years of deliberation, we recently eliminated gluten from her diet, and the changes have been absolutely *AMAZING*. She is just more patient, less irritable child, and she noticed the improvements herself.

[Guest submarines]

ITA...physical punishment is NOT an option. period.

 

talking about it....he generally acts like he's fighting back tears saying' date=' "just stop talking about it" or "i don't know". i guess he's too young to have an actual back and forth conversation, but he is definitely emotional about it. he cares, i know he does (wrt his brother), but he just doesn't know how to change his behavior in the moment and we have not been able to come up with anything that's helping him. again, it makes me feel like such a failure.[/quote']

 

This is very similar to DD. She gets so overwhelmed by her emotions, she does know that what she did was wrong, she already feels bad about it, and perceived a conversation about is as 'shaming'.

 

DD can be awful to her brother, but she loves him so, so very much. As she's getting older, she is able to control her behaviours much better, and we hardly ever have these issues now. But 6 (with a newborn), and 7, and even 8, were very challenging.

[jackson'smama]

One question- is he getting enough sleep? Does he wake several times during the night? If he isn't getting a good night's sleep, you might look into valerian root. 2 of my kids have sleep disturbances that contribute to anger issues.

 

well, he sleeps thru the night, but he's an early riser no matter the time he goes to bed/sleep. and bed/sleep time is another control issue. he's famous for "i'm not tired", "I control when i go to bed", "you can't make me go to bed", etc...

 

he is always up by 6 and is usually asleep by 9. sometimes 8:30. he's usually in bed by about 7:30 except tuesdays when he has scouts.

 

i've never thought he got enough sleep. none of my children have been good sleepers. even my 13 month old won't nap unless she's nursing or in the car.

 

i've been recommended melatonin. i have not looked into valerian root, but i will. thank you!

[Guest submarines]

well' date=' he sleeps thru the night, but he's an early riser no matter the time he goes to bed/sleep. and bed/sleep time is another control issue. he's famous for "i'm not tired", "I control when i go to bed", "you can't make me go to bed", etc...

 

he is always up by 6 and is usually asleep by 9. sometimes 8:30. he's usually in bed by about 7:30 except tuesdays when he has scouts.

 

i've never thought he got enough sleep. none of my children have been good sleepers. even my 13 month old won't nap unless she's nursing or in the car.

 

i've been recommended melatonin. i have not looked into valerian root, but i will. thank you![/quote']

 

 

DD was also "never tired." She's slept poorly since she was an infant. We did start low dose melatonin recently, and magnesium citrate powder in drink at bedtime. She sleeps so much better now.

[jackson'smama]

This is very similar to DD. She gets so overwhelmed by her emotions, she does know that what she did was wrong, she already feels bad about it, and perceived a conversation about is as 'shaming'.

 

DD can be awful to her brother, but she loves him so, so very much. As she's getting older, she is able to control her behaviours much better, and we hardly ever have these issues now. But 6 (with a newborn), and 7, and even 8, were very challenging.

 

so if she were physical with him, what was your immediate response? if she smacked him in the face for "talking too loudly", what would you have done? i just feel so lost in the moment. and while any type of "punishment" just seems to escalate the situation, I don't want to let it go. i feel like this is becoming so unfair for our younger son. last night, it was his (middle's) and daddy's night out and dh came home and sadly said that Noah told him he'd like for brother to go away so that he wouldn't kick him or smack him anymore or take his toys. that just makes me feel so bad - like we are letting him down.

[jackson'smama]

:grouphug:You will also notice from my siggy that I'm not a pure classical homeschooler. I don't hesitate to take a break from lessons if she is not doing well emotionally. From my perspective, she is not going to love learning, and is not going to learn anything meaningful when she is feeling stressed, anxious, and out of control. They catch up very quickly when they feel great on the inside. I don't think a sense of responsibilities develops out of being forced to do things while a child is figuring out how to deal with his or her emotions.

 

Hang in there. Things will get better.

 

thank you for this. so often, i feel like i am letting school slide way too much because it is just becoming so mentally overwhelming for all of us to try to make things happen.

[Guest submarines]

so if she were physical with him' date=' what was your immediate response? if she smacked him in the face for "talking too loudly", what would you have done? i just feel so lost in the moment. and while any type of "punishment" just seems to escalate the situation, I don't want to let it go. i feel like this is becoming so unfair for our younger son. last night, it was his (middle's) and daddy's night out and dh came home and sadly said that Noah told him he'd like for brother to go away so that he wouldn't kick him or smack him anymore or take his toys. that just makes me feel so bad - like we are letting him down.[/quote']

 

 

Gordon Neufeld says 'collect before you correct." I'd make sure DS was okay and comfort him, and then I'd promptly grab DD for a time-in--we'd sit and cuddle and do something that she likes. It takes minutes for her to start feeling better, and then we talk about what happened and what we can do to avoid this in the future. She is almost always remorseful, and I never felt that a quick time-in gave her the impression that she was allowed to be mean to her brother.

 

At my worst moments, when I'm low on patience, I might send her to her room for the time out. It has never workd out as well as a time in. What it does, though, it helps *me* to calm down, and then I go upstairs and initiate a time-in, so that we can reconnect and then deal with the misbehaviour.

 

Honestly, with my own personality :001_huh:, this is not easy for me. But it does work the best for us when I'm on top of things. Try to find that book and read it--it makes the most intuitive sense, and is very powerful. One can't discipline effectively without making sure there's a connection first. When there's a connection, simply looking at her with a disappointed look can stop her 'bad behaviour', especially when we are in public.

 

Feel free to PM me if you want to chat. :grouphug:

[Guest fivelittleheartbeats]

Jackson'sMama,

My 6 1/2 yo son is JUST like you have described! This thread has given me a new perspective, too. Thank you for your transparency. It will be helpful to us!!

[Little Nyssa]

We really liked Setting Limits with your Strong-willed Child.

I think you've gotten some really good advice.

I would just add one thing-- you sound really tired! I think you should have, if possible, some time off to relax and regroup. I think that if you can get a regular break and some down-time, you yourself will be able to think up some strategies that will fit your family. Ask DH or a family member to take the kids for a bit, or maybe you can swap childcare with another mom one afternoon a week. :grouphug:

[myfunnybunch]

talking about it....he generally acts like he's fighting back tears saying' date=' "just stop talking about it" or "i don't know". i guess he's too young to have an actual back and forth conversation, but he is definitely emotional about it. [/quote']

 

He probably *really* doesn't know.

 

Some coaching and prompting and scripting can help with this. Really feed him the words. For example, instead of asking "Why did you do that?" (because he probably doesn't know--impulsive angry behavior isn't rational) you can say, "You sounded and looked really angry. Do you know what you were angry about?" or if needed, "Were you angry about x?" Then, "That might make me feel angry too. When we're angry we can't hurt others. When I feel angry I try to walk away/tell someone 'I'm angry because____'/go in the bedroom and close the door to be alone. What are some things you can do when you are angry that won't hurt other people?" And you help him make a list. If it sounds exactly like your list, great, that's why you did it, so he didn't think, "I don't know." And you say those kinds of scripts over and over and over and over again until you think you should probably just tattoo them all over your body....and as he grows and matures, he'll have all of those problem-solving ideas in his little head and eventually he will start to use them once in a while, then more often, then you'll think to yourself, "Gee, I haven't seen this behavior for a while."

 

Talk out loud to yourself when you feel frustrated. "Oh, I am so frustrated about the dog chewing my shoes! (Or because my stitching isn't working, or it is very loud in here and it's hurting my ears.) I need to take a break to calm down. I'll be back in a minute to talk to the dog about my shoes/fix my sewing/ask everyone to please be quiet."

 

I would also try to use positive scripts: "I saw your kindness to little brother. I'll bet that made him feel happy/loved/excited when you (specific example). When I do nice things for people it makes me feel warm inside. Did that kindness help you feel warm inside? Lovely." Over and over and over.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Cat

[kubiac]

I'd recommend having a third son to break up the existing power dynamic between your two boys, but maybe that's too drastic a measure? (LOL, just kidding.)

 

In lieu of that, can daddy get closer to the older one in some way? I wonder if your older boy could demonstrating some sort of dad-related anxiety in the way he treats your younger boy. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, it's just this reminds me of some families I know, and I think in all those cases, the dad isn't particularly warm or emotionally available, and the then older kid acting out makes things even more adversarial and troubling for the older kid, who feels like he's not getting as much affection/protection as the younger boy.

Edited November 9, 2011 by kubiac

[redsquirrel]

One thing I want to add, I got from Siblings Without Rivalry, and it worked very well in this house.

 

If a child is hit etc give your attention to the injured child first, not the hitting or misbehaving child. Just for a short period of time. I would go so far as to turn my back to the hitting child and hug and pay attention to the injured child. It gives a message that hitting a sibling isn't the way to get mom's attention. In fact, it gets attention for the sibling.

 

So, I will pay attention to the hurt or insulted child by offering hugs and showing empathy. I ask if they are ok and express my concern etc. Only after I have done that will I address the 'offender'. It did change the dynamic. It also gives me a moment to calm down and collect my thoughts.

[kathkath]

This is by no means a one-step-solution but our ped mentioned a strategy awhile back that has helped a lot. DS can get on a downward path that gets ugly fast that is hard to turn around. Our ped witnessed this during an appointment and caught him off guard by asking him about Angry Birds (which he loves). She asked him probing questions about how it worked, what characters did what, etc, and that brought him back to a happy place. It's a form of distraction yet also fills their need for attention and love. The point is to get them talking about something they're good at or interested in.

[bcnlvr]

Poor guy. He probably feels that he can't do anything right, and is stuck in the vicious negative circle. DD and I went through several cycles like this. She is very strong willed, so punishment that I'm okay with (a time out) doesn't work for her and only makes her angry, which pretty much negates the point.

 

I don't see how taking prized posessions away can help the situation. It will only breed resentment and more anger.

 

For me, focusing, very intently, on connecting with my DD works the best. It is a challenge, because when things are bad, I often even can't find anything positive about her--this is a sign for me that we both really need to reconnect. Before doing anything disciplinary, any reaction, I ask myself whether it will bring us closer. If it doesn't, I try to find a different way to approach the issue.

 

:grouphug: I hope you find something that works for your family.

 

I do something along these lines. I focus on our relationship (I use connection, not separation, ie time out like I used to). I make sure my ds knows that we are SOLID. I script the desired behavior instead of demanding maturity from him. I "collect him" every morning (he is getting big, but I hold him like a baby in the cushy living room chair and talk and sing to him....he is 9). I cannot articulate the change in my child over the few years that I have been parenting him this way. (this was my ADHD/ODD/insane, lets set the cat on fire and play on the roof with my baby brother....child). Now all that is a distant memory. I was a very controlling parent who used to teach him a lesson when he was bad/screwed up and he responded by, well, being a bad boy. :confused:

 

I hope that you find something that works for your situation. I can feel your frustration. :grouphug:

[Caribbean Queen]

I used to believe that children 'acted out' as a cry for help - usually because their mother had not nurtured them properly. Punishing them would stifle their need to express themselves. They would seeth with hidden anger and grow up to be criminals.

(I was wrong)

 

I also used to think children needed increased self esteem. No matter how full of themselves someone acted, I believed they had low self esteem. They were just pretending to esteem themselves too much because they didn't want everyone to know how vulnerable they really were. Punishments, such as taking away a DVD or toy might crush a child's delicate self esteem.

(Goodness no.)

 

These ideas leave you with nothing to do but talk to your child like this: Honey, when you slap Mommy on her face it hurts Mommy. Honey? Please tell me why you slapped Mommy. Tell me! Please don't hurt Mommy anymore. Give Mommy a hug and go play.

Oh. my. gosh. no.

 

Forget these ideas. They are not true. Go back to the old fashioned ideas; children sometimes get too big for their britches and need to be get a dose of reality. He is not in charge. You are the boss. He must obey you. If he breaks your rules he will be punished.

Say this:

 

"Son, you are not allowed to hit or kick your brother. If you hit or kick him, I will not let you play with Legos for the rest of the day."

 

Son hits.

 

"You may not play with Legos for the rest of the day."

 

No discussion. No feeling sorry for him. Ignore his reaction. His brother can play with Legos, but not him. If your son will not obey you and leave the Legos alone, lock them in the trunk of your car, or something.

He gets mad. He fights back tears. Fine. Punishments are supposed to be unpleasant. That is the whole point of punishing.

 

Later. when he stopps hitting, work on getting him to say, "Yes, Mom" or remaining silent when you ask him to do something. - And then doing what you said. No backtalk, whining, and giving you a hard time about everything. You can't teach a person like that. How can you homeschool him the way he is? Imagine what he would be like as a teenager. [shutter] You need get very strict with him now.

 

Explain it and practice the right responses so that you know, for sure your child understands and then don't let anything "slide." Call him back to you to redo his response when he occassionally backtalks.

 

If he wont respond to your commands the right way, consistantly then he is doing it willfully. Give a consequence. I had my son write a sentence about what he said or did every time I didn't get the right response. He only had to write 5 sentences. it worked like a charm.

 

Mom: Son, put your book away.

 

Son: I don't feel like it. Why don't you do it?

 

Mom: Write about that.

 

Son writes a sentence like, "I need to put my book away."

 

Mom: Put your book away.

 

Son puts book away.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Caribbean Queen

[twoforjoy]

These ideas leave you with nothing to do but talk to your child like this: Honey, when you slap Mommy on her face it hurts Mommy. Honey? Please tell me why you slapped Mommy. Tell me! Please don't hurt Mommy anymore. Give Mommy a hug and go play.

Oh. my. gosh. no...

 

Forget these ideas. They are not true. Go back to the old fashioned ideas; children sometimes get too big for their britches and need to be get a dose of reality. He is not in charge. You are the boss. He must obey you. If he breaks your rules he will be punished.

 

I don't think it needs to be either/or. You can have both understanding and consequences.

 

I try to do both. DS is in a phase right now where his little sister drives him crazy. He doesn't get physical with her, but he is constantly scolding her and yelling at her. He also sometimes gets into moods when he just doesn't listen to anything. There are consequences for that. His big currently is computer/video game time. He starts with one hour per day. If he is a great listener and helper, he can earn an extra 30 minutes of game time after dinner with dad. If he disobeys or misbehaves, he loses game time, usually in 15 minute increments, sometimes more if it's really egregious. He may also end up with an earlier bedtime or some time alone in his room.

 

But, I also try to talk to him about what was going on motivating those behaviors, and to talk about better ways to handle these situations in the future. What's going on in his life? What is he feeling about his sister? What are some things he can do differently next time she's annoying him?

 

It's hard to be a kid. I remember feeling so little and powerless. I don't just want to exert my authority over my kids, although doing so in a reasonable way is part of what I have to do. I also want to come alongside them and be a companion to them as they grow up and help guide them along the way.

[Caribbean Queen]

I don't think it needs to be either/or. You can have both understanding and consequences.

 

 

For me, the understanding part could not be reconciled with punishment.

 

I believed that my children's misbehavior was caused by a lack of understanding. Any misbehavior was proof of not having enough understanding. Punishments would make my child even less understood. He would feel less loved, and have less self esteem - which would eventually make my child behave worse. - So I thought.

 

When my son would do something naughty we would have a little talk about our feelings and the rules and love. "Mommy doesn't like it when you kick her." I could not get it through my head that:

 

1. His meeds were met. He was fed, clothed, excersized, rested, and loved very much.

 

2. He understood the rules. He knew what they were and why they were in place.

 

3. He broke the rules anyway.

 

 

My old pastor once jokingly said, "Look on their backs. Do you see any wings?" Ha!

Children are not perfect creatures who would only do something wrong because their needs are not met. Children are people.

 

Make sure to take good care of your children, and when they misbehave It is because they are normal children, who feel like doing the wrong thing sometimes. Punishing them is a fine discipline tool for you to use. Don't feel guilty about it. Yes, it will make them feel bad to loose Legos, but it is for their own good.

[MariannNOVA]

Years ago, dh and I read THe EXPLOSIVE CHILD. It is probably, imo, one of a few life-changing books we have read. You can find it on Amazon. I cannot remember the author's last name .......Green sticks in my mind, but you can search by the title of the book.

[Whereneverever]

Honestly the #1 thing that has helped with my difficult child is role playing and being proactive. If I try to intervene once things are sour and she's misbehaved or is upset- it's already too late.

 

The time to work on behavior, in my opinion, is when you and the child are calm. Eat something together, be well rested, and do it when nothing bad is happening.

 

We played a LOT of pretend games. I would pretend to be her and have her bother me. I'd over react and flail and yell. She really didn't realize that it looked (and sounded) like that. Her inner vision of how she'd been handling her anger was really different! I'd do it again, showing ways to appropriately handle the situation- using words, walking away, taking deep breaths, ect.

 

After that we'd switch roles. She'd play herself and I'd be the annoyer- but since I'm an adult I was able to keep it to a level that she could PRETEND to be mad, not actually make her mad, if that makes sense.

 

It didn't fix things in an afternoon. But it has given her the tools that when I see a situation brewing I can say something to focus her on and she can walk down a more appropriate road.

 

I know it's hard with littles. But your oldest is telling you he NEEDS time with you. He needs help. He needs to know that he's still terribly important to you and that he's overwhelmed. As miserable as you feel about this, I'd wager he feels just as bad.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[FO4UR]

You've gotten lots of advice..I can't add much, but trying to *proactivly* prevent some of the outbursts. You can't prevent them all, but if you can prevent even 1/2 of them, it makes that other 1/2 easier to deal with.

 

 

How? Pinpoint the situations that provide the opportunity for the bad behavior. (I'd focus in on the little brother stuff first.) Do NOT leave those 2 boys alone in a room together - EVER! (Not for a long long time....when oldest has matured out of this stage.)

 

If you need to cook dinner and Noah is playing in the living room, oldest gets to help mom cook.

 

If you are doing laundry and Noah is in the bedroom, oldest learns how to turn the dial/push the buttons on the washing machine.

 

If you are changing the baby's diaper and Noah is eating in the kitchen, oldest follows mom to help entertain baby.

 

 

*Make* a job for your oldest if there is none. He needs a significant task. He needs to be close to you, most of all. This is not punishment. This is bringing him in under your wings and helping him gain some self-control.

 

 

Then....Noah is going to get jealous that oldest always gets to help mom cook, laundry, change the baby, etc...so then you can allow the oldest to play by himself while Noah gets some of the same kinds of attention. I have 3dc, and I find that pulling one out of the mix cures a world of ills - even now that they are 8, 6, and 5yo - ESPECIALLY now.:tongue_smilie:

 

I would NOT explain any of this to the kids. Talk with dh when the kids can't hear. On exceptionally terrible days (or b/c you start to like your kids when they aren't acting like wild animals:lol:), tag team with dh. He takes oldest out to play catch while Noah helps mom with dinner.

 

:grouphug: I have a LOT of the same struggles. Love and Logic is a great book. It works, but when I start feeling like I'm playing a nightmarish game of whack-a-mole...structuring things to prevent problems reduces the moles to whack. (Those pesky things still pop up though...)