Anyone have a child like this? (hiding intelligence)

[Halcyon]

Hi-

Something has been on my mind lately, and I am wondering if others who share similar experiences can chime in.

 

My older son is a great student, bright and articulate. He loves reading, math, history, science...you name it. He's a good conversationalist, enjoys talking about unusual topics, and has his passions (right now, it's sharks).

 

However, when he gets in a group setting amongst other kids (or even other adults), he "hides" his intelligence/interests/outspoken-ness. Let me clarify: this is NOT a shy child. He has a lot of friends, loves sports, introducing himself to new people, enjoys playing games, goofing around, etc. But in coop philosophy class last year (for example), despite having a long-running conversation with me about the existence of God, when he sat in a circle with other students and the teacher, his participation in the conversation became "I don't know." "Maybe." and a variety of blank stares. :glare:

 

Another thing that struck me this week was this: two days a week he goes to an afterschool program at the local Y so I can work. There is a "homework" time for about 30 minutes during afterschool where most of the kids sit down and work on homework. He often has math or grammar work that I have asked him to do, mostly review and reinforcement. He absolutely FREAKS about trying to get this done beforehand, going so far as to do it in the car on the way over (and of course rushing and getting things wrong), begging me to give the work to him "early" so that he can work on it beforehand. He also refuses to talk to the other kids about the books he's reading, even when they all are talking about it. He told me that the other kids were trying to figure out how to spell "million" and he wouldn't pipe in. He also saw that some 6th graders were working on the same material as he was in math, and were talking amongst themselves about how to solve a question. They asked him if he knew and he said "no." :confused:

 

This may harken back to an incident last summer, when he was in sports camp. A couple of the kids were arguing about how to spell a word (I can't remember the word, but it was something challenging, like character or something) and my son spelled it for them, and he said they were agog. They said something like "whoa--speller boy!!" --not meanly, but in a way that drew attention to him. He seems very resistant to "display" his interests or intelligence to anyone outside of his immediate family (even with his grandfather, he doesn't like to talk about what he's learning about, even when I know he is passionate about it).

 

This contrasts sharply with his younger brother, who loves to talk with others about the subjects he's studying, enjoys "showing off" (for lack of a better term-he just has no qualms about showing he knows advanced material if asked) when his grandma asks him to spell, or add two big numbers. Younger definitely is considered "different" than his peers, and I wonder how much older senses of this, and is trying to blend in and not stand out. People often comment on how bright younger is, saying things like "Wow! He's reading THAT?" and I know for a fact that older would be mortified by such a comment. He even refuses to read his book in a public location like the YMCA when I am working out, for fear someone will comment on it.

 

Anyway, this was longer than I intended, but it's been on my mind. I wonder if anyone else has experienced this, and your thoughts or concerns.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Halcyon

[Starr]

Self conscience? Dumbing down to fit in? Peer pressure is a mighty thing.

[Halcyon]

Self conscience? Dumbing down to fit in? Peer pressure is a mighty thing.

 

Perhaps. But why would he do this with his grandparents, even when they just casually ask "so, what are you reading now?"

[Cassy]

One of my friends sons used to be a bit like you describe your son. He's 10 now and seems to have got over it for the main part, to the point that DS10, his best friend, describes him as "a bit of a big-head now".

 

My friend is very ambitious for her sons. She was a PS teacher before having children, and she tutors them quite intensively, despite the fact that they go to a very good private school. I think her son used to feel a little freakish with DS10 and his friends because all the emphasis in his home was on learning, educational activities, and achievement. My friend has relaxed a little in the past couple of years, mainly on the insistence of her DH. The boys now play video games and Nerf wars, etc and I think this has increased his self-confidence a bit, so that he can relate to other boys in a more natural, fun way.

 

It is definitely a confidence thing, though. His younger brother, who is two years younger than him, has always delighted in showing off his talents - at age 3 he could read and write beautifully, and knew all his times tables, and he continues to amaze and deeply impress anyone he meets.

 

ETA This particular boy was always a very sensitive boy, and I wonder if this was why he was a bit less confident than his younger brother.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Cassy

[Love HSing]

:lurk5: :bigear:

[Halcyon]

double post.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Halcyon

[Halcyon]

 

It is definitely a confidence thing, though. His younger brother, who is two years younger than him, has always delighted in showing off his talents - at age 3 he could read and write beautifully, and knew all his times tables, and he continues to amaze and deeply impress anyone he meets.

 

ETA This particular boy was always a very sensitive boy, and I wonder if this was why he was a bit less confident than his younger brother.

 

 

 

This is very interesting to me. His younger brother sounds similar to your friend's youngest...but it's younger who is supremely sensitive...at least seemingly...hmmmm. I do wonder if it's a confidence thing. How would you imagine I could help him with this? (assuming it's something that needs "help")

 

ETA: just read a few things online. He definitely puts pressure on himself and self-criticizes when he gets things wrong ("I am SO stupid...how could I have missed that???" and "I am an idiot.") which, sadly, mirrors my own behavior when I make stupid mistakes. He is not forgiving of himself, nor am I. Something to think about, and likely work on. Thank you.

[Old Dominion Heather]

My middle son is like this, and I don't really worry about it. However, I will say that it is one reason I would probably keep him at home even if I sent the other boys to PS.

 

He doesn't like to stand out in a crowd for things that he sees as "gifts", but he has no problem with standing out in sports. I think he feels that he shouldn't take credit for things that he didn't earn, which is a good thing. I have probably stressed that to him, maybe a bit too much.

 

He is very smart, but also very attune to others' feelings; he would never want to make anyone feel badly about something they couldn't do or answer. That and he wants very much to fit in with the group.

[Starr]

Encourage and love, the parenting motto. It sounds like once he gets more comfortable with family members he'll then get more comfortable with others.

[Halcyon]

My middle son is like this, and I don't really worry about it. However, I will say that it is one reason I would probably keep him at home even if I sent the other boys to PS.

 

He doesn't like to stand out in a crowd for things that he sees as "gifts", but he has no problem with standing out in sports. I think he feels that he shouldn't take credit for things that he didn't earn, which is a good thing. I have probably stressed that to him, maybe a bit too much.

 

He is very smart, but also very attune to others' feelings; he would never want to make anyone feel badly about something they couldn't do or answer. That and he wants very much to fit in with the group.

 

Yes, my son has no problem "standing out" in sports! LOL. He also very much wants to fit in, and loves having a lot of friends. Thanks for chiming in.

[Calm37]

I thought you were describing a teen until you got to the part about the afterschool program. My 20yos would fit the description nicely. People who know him at church will say to me, "He talks?" when I tell them of our long conversations about faith and Christianity.

 

I may be taking this too far, but as I read I was thinking about the Myers-Briggs Personality Types. One of the types pertains to how someone gathers information, whether they are sensing or intuitive. Then there is the thinking/feeling way of making decisions. I wonder if what you are seeing in groups is just something along these lines, that your son has his own inherent way of dealing with group situations. He is listening and evaluating and learning about different personalities. He is busy with all that and not thinking at that moment of trying to express himself.

 

Blessings,

[ChandlerMom]

I think it depends...

 

If your son is an extrovert, it might be about trying to fit in.

 

If your son is an introvert, it might be more an issue of private/public. TO him, what he knows/reads may be PRIVATE and thus he doesn't feel like sharing it. While extroverts read social cues to determine private/public, introverts tend to hold what is important to them as private. Sometimes they mark everything as "private" since they don't feel the need to get social approval (so the exact opposite of the extrovert). Introverts often feel misunderstood or "Why don't they know who I am?" while at the same time keeping their most important thoughts and feelings to themselves (other types of introverts will blab every detail to anyone since they are only concerned with their internal world and don't know how to self-edit yet).

 

If you think introvert = shy or antisocial...don't. introvert/extrovert has to do with where you get your energy (extroverts are energized by social interactions, introverts may enjoy them immensely but leave drained). SO first, figure out which you are dealing with. My two girls are both introverts: my oldest observe before participating and volunteers little of her own thoughts/interests (reminds me of Jane Goodall observing the gorillas) but her sister is a total social butterfly and has never seen a stranger to which she won't tell her life story and befriend. Neither is remotely "shy" around others.

 

If you are an extrovert and your child is an introvert, I strongly recommend reading a book like "gifts differing" by I. Briggs-Myers. Extroverts have a tough time reading introverts (introverts shake their heads at extroverts, but they can usually discern the internal motivations).

 

If your son is an extrovert, play to his social responsibility. Discuss how a child feels when they are asking for help with a problem and the responsibility of anyone there to help if they can. You can also discuss that saying "I don't know" when you do is a form of lying and the value of being honest with his friends/teachers.

 

To the introvert, since this is the action of a strong sense of self rather than a weak one (peer pressure) you may want to allow more leeway. I would discuss social responsibility and lying, and when it is important to disclose what he knows, even if he wouldn't volunteer it. He might benefit from discussing the private/public balance, discuss what YOU disclose/keep private and how it changes in different groups. Basically, you can voice the expectation that when asked he needs to answer and that it is unfair to refuse to participate in group activities when he has something valuable to contribute. In other situations, he needs to be allowed to choose when/what he shares. As he gets his internal world in order and begins to focus more on interactions with the external world, he will most likely be more open.

Edited October 29, 2011 by ChandlerMom

[Halcyon]

I thought you were describing a teen until you got to the part about the afterschool program. My 20yos would fit the description nicely. People who know him at church will say to me, "He talks?" when I tell them of our long conversations about faith and Christianity.

 

I may be taking this too far, but as I read I was thinking about the Myers-Briggs Personality Types. One of the types pertains to how someone gathers information, whether they are sensing or intuitive. Then there is the thinking/feeling way of making decisions. I wonder if what you are seeing in groups is just something along these lines, that your son has his own inherent way of dealing with group situations. He is listening and evaluating and learning about different personalities. He is busy with all that and not thinking at that moment of trying to express himself.

 

Blessings,

 

Thank you for your insight! Myers-Briggs might be an interesting test for him. I agree--he might just have a different way of dealing with group interactions that involve more listening than talking (which for him is unusual, seeing as he's outspoken).

[Halcyon]

I think it depends...

 

If your son is an extrovert, it might be about trying to fit in.

 

If your son is an introvert, it might be more an issue of private/public. TO him, what he knows/reads may be PRIVATE and thus he doesn't feel like sharing it. While extroverts read social cues to determine private/public, introverts tend to hold what is important to them as private. Sometimes they mark everything as "private" since they don't feel the need to get social approval (so the exact opposite of the extrovert). Introverts often feel misunderstood or "Why don't they know who I am?" while at the same time keeping their most important thoughts and feelings to themselves (other types of introverts will blab every detail to anyone since they are only concerned with their internal world and don't know how to self-edit yet).

 

If you think introvert = shy or antisocial...don't. introvert/extrovert has to do with where you get your energy (extroverts are energized by social interactions, introverts may enjoy them immensely but leave drained). SO first, figure out which you are dealing with. My two girls are both introverts: my oldest observe before participating and volunteers little of her own thoughts/interests (reminds me of Jane Goodall observing the gorillas) but her sister is a total social butterfly and has never seen a stranger to which she won't tell her life story and befriend.

 

If you are an extrovert and your child is an introvert, I strongly recommend reading a book like "gifts differing" by I. Briggs-Myers. Extroverts have a tough time reading introverts (introverts shake their heads at extroverts, but they can usually discern the internal motivations).

 

If your son is an extrovert, play to his social responsibility. Discuss how a child feels when they are asking for help with a problem and the responsibility of anyone there to help if they can. You can also discuss that saying "I don't know" when you do is a form of lying and the value of being honest with his friends/teachers.

 

To the introvert, since this is the action of a strong sense of self rather than a weak one (peer pressure) you may want to allow more leeway. I would discuss social responsibility and lying, and when it is important to disclose what he knows, even if he wouldn't volunteer it. He might benefit from discussing the private/public balance, discuss what YOU disclose/keep private and how it changes in different groups. Basically, you can voice the expectation that when asked he needs to answer and that it is unfair to refuse to participate in group activities when he has something valuable to contribute. In other situations, he needs to be allowed to choose when/what he shares. As he gets his internal world in order and begins to focus more on interactions with the external world, he will most likely be more open.

 

Lots to digest here. Thank you. I am an introvert personally. He is an extrovert. He likes to be around other people, gets energized when with other people..but seemingly only in "play" situations, not in anything involving conversing. I definitely think your comment about the 'private/public' aspect of, say, what he's reading rings true. His books are his "private" world; so much so, that he refuses to read them in a public spot.

 

I like the idea of discussing the importance of being honest, but to be frank, most of the time he just avoids these topics--he'll change the topic, or walk away, or divert the topic back to the other person. He does NOT like talking about what he knows and enjoys--this is the part I just don't get. I am an introvert, but get me talking about a topic I love and you can't shut me up :D He would far rather throw a ball or jump in the pool or play a board game.

 

Keep in mind, this is ONLY with people other than immediate family. With us, he will talk for a long time about a variety of things. For example, last night we had a long conversation over dinner about tsunamis, and whether professional surfers seek them out, what happens in the ocean at the either "end" of the tsunami, and a spirited discussion of risk and reward--whether dangerous activities like sky-diving, bungee-cord jumping and high risk surfing are worth the risk because of the thrill. Anyway, it just doesn't make sense to me, as it's not only peers with whom he doesn't talk about interests.

 

Then again, it just might be his age. :001_smile:

[KatA]

ETA: just read a few things online. He definitely puts pressure on himself and self-criticizes when he gets things wrong ("I am SO stupid...how could I have missed that???" and "I am an idiot.") which, sadly, mirrors my own behavior when I make stupid mistakes. He is not forgiving of himself, nor am I. Something to think about, and likely work on. Thank you.

 

Maybe because of this need to get things perfect, to beat himself up for mistakes, he's doesn't want to take the risk and therefore says nothing? He might be outgoing in sports because it's physical, no way to mess it up. (But he certainly hasn't seen me paddle a canoe...) I'm not an unsociable person, but I often feel self conscious of not saying the right words or making a fool out of myself, that I keep my mouth shut. Because of this people would describe me as reserved or quiet.

 

So maybe it's just a confidence issue, you're safe because you're mom, but with older peers or older people, he doesn't want to risk sounding foolish?

[gardenmom5]

This may harken back to an incident last summer, when he was in sports camp. A couple of the kids were arguing about how to spell a word (I can't remember the word, but it was something challenging, like character or something) and my son spelled it for them, and he said they were agog. They said something like "whoa--speller boy!!" --not meanly, but in a way that drew attention to him. .

 

My oldest was similiar - she didn't want any attention drawn towards her. never talked about her scores/grades when her friends were, etc.

 

if he wasn't uncomfortable or was more willing to be commenting or sharing what he was doing before, I'd say "yes", that incident last summer had far more impact than you realize. even if not, kids can be very sensitive to being perceived as "different" by other kids. Most kids don't like kids who are "different".

[Staceyshoe]

I think sometimes when a child realizes they are "different" (and a highly intelligent child is quite a bit different in many respects), they can start thinking that the "difference" is "weird." A lot of kids can start to wonder "what's wrong with me?" Does your child have any same-age intellectual peers? That can go a long way toward normalizing what they are experiencing.

[ChandlerMom]

Maybe because of this need to get things perfect, to beat himself up for mistakes, he's doesn't want to take the risk and therefore says nothing? He might be outgoing in sports because it's physical, no way to mess it up. (But he certainly hasn't seen me paddle a canoe...) I'm not an unsociable person, but I often feel self conscious of not saying the right words or making a fool out of myself, that I keep my mouth shut. Because of this people would describe me as reserved or quiet.

 

So maybe it's just a confidence issue, you're safe because you're mom, but with older peers or older people, he doesn't want to risk sounding foolish?

 

Interesting point. My older dd is a perfectionist. She's meticulous and hates being "wrong". She'll talk our ears off at home (I guess we're "safe"), but with others...In her MA class, the instructor asked a question and all the students, including my younger dd who did NOT know the answer were raising their hands as high as they could. Except my older dd. She shrunk to the smallest possible size even though I KNOW she knew the answer. It was actually pretty comical. I do worry that to others it may appear she has an "attitude" but she just is more...private and reserved in those situations.

 

ETA: her younger sister is more my flavor of introvert: fearless and outgoing (at least I was as a kid, lol). She has a sensitive social radar (like dh). To see her, you'd think she's an extrovert, but she's just a very social introvert. Very strong willed and driven by an internal compass. But she LOVES to play and talk with others. My older dd has a harder time reading others (like me), so she's social and good with friends but definitely more...private.

 

ETA2: The books being private made me chuckle. My privacy thing was music. I remember in high school a guy asking nicely what I was listening to on my walkman and I remember feeling bemused knowing he'd have to pry it from my hands, kicking and screaming, to find out. Yet I would hold political debates daily with strangers on the city bus (I'd find out their position and argue the opposite, just for fun). :lol:

Edited October 29, 2011 by ChandlerMom

[Tap]

It could be a bit of 'stage fright'. Maybe when he is put on the spot in front of other people, he really doesn't know the answer. With you he is comfortable, but with others he forgets what he is saying based on nerves. The fight or flight response in our bodies is a powerful thing.

 

I would ask him how it feels to talk to other people in these situations. If he gets butterflies or a stomachache, I would suspect this is the issue.

[Ester Maria]

Why is it a *problem* that your son estimates when to demonstrate his knowledge and when not, rather than just blurting all he knows at all occasions imaginable? I do not see it as a problem, even if he claims sometimes not to know something he does know - he probably estimates it is not suitable.

 

Being smart is about knowing WHAT to say.

Being wise is about knowing WHETHER to say it, and if so, HOW.

 

You seem to have not only a smart, but also a wise kid. That is a GOOD thing! His lack of showing off for the sake of showing off is a GOOD thing! His not wanting to put his peers into a "in your face" situation in a group setting is a GOOD thing. His acting sometimes in an "age-appropriate" fashion is also a GOOD thing.

 

With time he will learn to recognize situation when it is in his interest NOT to act this way. For now, sounds good to me, nothing to worry about. I would be far more worried if I had a show offy child who could not resist NOT saying what they know in every situation that shows up - that is a harder skill to work on.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Why is it a *problem* that your son estimates when to demonstrate his knowledge and when not, rather than just blurting all he knows at all occasions imaginable? I do not see it as a problem, even if he claims sometimes not to know something he does know - he probably estimates it is not suitable.

 

Being smart is about knowing WHAT to say.

Being wise is about knowing WHETHER to say it, and if so, HOW.

 

You seem to have not only a smart, but also a wise kid. That is a GOOD thing! His lack of showing off for the sake of showing off is a GOOD thing! His not wanting to put his peers into a "in your face" situation in a group setting is a GOOD thing. His acting sometimes in an "age-appropriate" fashion is also a GOOD thing.

 

With time he will learn to recognize situation when it is in his interest NOT to act this way. For now, sounds good to me, nothing to worry about. I would be far more worried if I had a show offy child who could not resist NOT saying what they know in every situation that shows up - that is a harder skill to work on.

 

:iagree:

 

I almost responded to this thread earlier but couldn't find the right wording. My DH and my DS8 are both like this. They are sharp as tacks but modest as can be. As someone who grew up in school with my hand swinging wildly in the air, incessantly begging to be called on because I knew it all :001_rolleyes:, it can be hard for me to watch the self-restraint they employ naturally, as a product of their own personality. But you know, that is their personality and there is much to admire about it.

 

I have a mini-me in both my DD and DS5, which makes me appreciate even more the modesty and self-control shown by DH and DS8. DH has apparently always been like this and is well-respected for his modesty and quiet professionalism. It is what he is known for. He absolutely will not draw attention to all his wonderful attributes. There is a great deal to be said for this kind of a person. I'm a bit envious, actually, as someone who values praise...probably too highly.

[Sara R]

Why is it a *problem* that your son estimates when to demonstrate his knowledge and when not, rather than just blurting all he knows at all occasions imaginable? I do not see it as a problem, even if he claims sometimes not to know something he does know - he probably estimates it is not suitable.

 

I agree. This sounds like a good thing to me too. I've seen the opposite in homeschooled family members (blurting out everything you know regardless of the interest of the person listening), and it is painful and affects peer relationships.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I have one too! I call her the stealth child!

 

Yeah, she's actually pretty bright, though you'd never know it...

 

This is my oldest son! He recently started guitar lessons. During his first lesson, he probably didn't say 10 words in half an hour. During his second lesson, I'm certain he didn't talk much more than that but what he had accomplished in a week and his answers during their theory lesson revealed the "real" DS. The teacher followed DS out of the room with a dumbfounded expression on his face. "He's really smart," was all he said. "Yep," I said. But I was :lol: because I totally got why he was dumbfounded.

 

ETA: I will also add that I don't think there is anything unusual about a child wanting to keep their "life of the mind" to themselves and a few very close, trusted people. Even though I was an extrovert as a child and could be an annoying little know-it-all, I reserved philosophical debates and deep conversations for a dear friend or two and my nuclear family. I was overly proud of my knowledge but kept my true feelings and opinions about serious matters under my vest.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Alte Veste Academy

[Halcyon]

Does your child have any same-age intellectual peers? That can go a long way toward normalizing what they are experiencing.

 

No, he doesn't. :( He has a few older friends (around 11-12) but they're not academic kids, particularly.

[Halcyon]

It could be a bit of 'stage fright'. Maybe when he is put on the spot in front of other people, he really doesn't know the answer. With you he is comfortable, but with others he forgets what he is saying based on nerves. The fight or flight response in our bodies is a powerful thing.

 

I would ask him how it feels to talk to other people in these situations. If he gets butterflies or a stomachache, I would suspect this is the issue.

 

This could be it, or a big part of it, now that I think about it. Initially, part of our memory work was to recite poems/lists what have you in front of other people. I suggested grandparents: that elicited a horrified 'NO WAY!" I suggested my husband and still, horror. Then I suggested his brother's stuffed animals. :tongue_smilie: That worked....But when he realized his father was actually listening in, he got quite upset.

 

He also absolutely refuses to speak on stage, sing, perform in any way, despite talent. I know this isn't unusual at all, so I haven't really examined it.

[Halcyon]

I have one too! I call her the stealth child! And yes, she loves to stand out in sports! She is the ultimate extrovert, always going and doing, happiest in a crowd. I had no idea that she was also picking up the academics until 9th grade, when she went to take the ACT. She got a 33 in Reading. Wait, this is the child who hates to read??? The day before her ACT, we were at a friend's house and they pressed us to stay longer. I explained that we needed to get home as dd needed a good night's sleep before the ACT. Their response was telling, "H is taking the ACT? Early?" Yeah, she's actually pretty bright, though you'd never know it...

 

I asked her once why she stays under the radar and her answer was interesting, "Then no one expects much of you." Hmmm... She has a hard act to follow in her older sister (academic whiz) but I've pointed out that SHE is light years ahead--she already knows how to work and study, something that her older sis didn't figure out until her 2nd Class year at the academy. H has found her niche at our local college--since it isn't high school kids (well, some are from the class ahead of her and she's shy about showing her stuff around them) it's okay to be the top of the class. I'm forever indebted to a particular prof--her pushed HARD for her to take an insanely hard programming class. He gives out 1 A or A- every few years. Well, she got one! And a wonderful recommendation. I'm concerned that dd is going to try to take the easy way out when it comes to college. She needs to surround herself with other bright people, unlike the average kid at our local college. The next few months, with acceptances starting to come in, are going to be interesting!

 

This was very interesting for me to read--thank you. Older is absolutely a stealth child (love that term!) and the ultimate extrovert, like your daughter. And when people comment on our homeschooling or what have you, they say things like "well, your younger must be a breeze!" because his "intelligence" or whatever you want to call it is more obvious; older is never mentioned LOL even though in many ways he is more "academic" than younger.

 

This brings up an interesting topic for me, which is how hard/whether to "push" DS. Because he is not "obviously", out-there bright, because he gets his work done quickly and without complaint, I sometimes wonder whether he would benefit from acceleration in certain subjects. I have gone back and forth on this many times in my head. Younger I simply have to accelerate--he refuses to do easy work. But older....I don't know.

 

I can ABSOLUTELY see my son answering that question the same way! He doesn't like "standing out" or over-achieving, because then there's a greater chance of failure. I can totally see him not wanting to be at the "top of the class". Now, the best basketball player--absolutely!

 

Interesting.

[Halcyon]

Why is it a *problem* that your son estimates when to demonstrate his knowledge and when not, rather than just blurting all he knows at all occasions imaginable? I do not see it as a problem, even if he claims sometimes not to know something he does know - he probably estimates it is not suitable.

 

Being smart is about knowing WHAT to say.

Being wise is about knowing WHETHER to say it, and if so, HOW.

 

You seem to have not only a smart, but also a wise kid. That is a GOOD thing! His lack of showing off for the sake of showing off is a GOOD thing! His not wanting to put his peers into a "in your face" situation in a group setting is a GOOD thing. His acting sometimes in an "age-appropriate" fashion is also a GOOD thing.

 

With time he will learn to recognize situation when it is in his interest NOT to act this way. For now, sounds good to me, nothing to worry about. I would be far more worried if I had a show offy child who could not resist NOT saying what they know in every situation that shows up - that is a harder skill to work on.

 

 

Thank you, Ester Maria, for another perspective; you always have good insight to share :)

 

You might be right. I think my only concern is that when there's a chance to bond with someone (an adult or a child) over a topic of mutual interest--be it an academic topic, a book, anything--he will miss that opportunity, not simply because he won't "show off" but because he won't even converse.

[Halcyon]

:As someone who grew up in school with my hand swinging wildly in the air, incessantly begging to be called on because I knew it all :001_rolleyes:,

 

 

 

This was me, too, LOL. :lol:

[The Governess]

.

[Guest submarines]

Thank you, Ester Maria, for another perspective; you always have good insight to share :)

 

You might be right. I think my only concern is that when there's a chance to bond with someone (an adult or a child) over a topic of mutual interest--be it an academic topic, a book, anything--he will miss that opportunity, not simply because he won't "show off" but because he won't even converse.

 

My 9 yo is like this. She decides when and how to share her knowledge. I often feel the same as in the above quote. I want her not to miss any opportunities. If she is passionate about X, and here we are talking with an expert on X, I really want her to click with that person and start talking.

 

However I also realised that she is very particular about people, and even if someone might look to me as this idea opportunity for DD to connect, she might have a completely different idea.

 

I also think that for her a very large number of factors come into play, and she evaluates all of them, either consciously or subconsciously.

 

I agree with the poster who said that a humble, wise child is not at a disadvantage. However it is easier for us, as homeschooling parents, when our children share readily what they know. It is more difficult (or even embarrassing) when your child, who is passionate about sharks (and for whom you worked really hard to put him in this super exclusive shark workshop, maybe even bending some rules in the process) just stands there saying nothing. :001_huh:

[Halcyon]

It is more difficult (or even embarrassing) when your child, who is passionate about sharks (and for whom you worked really hard to put him in this super exclusive shark workshop, maybe even bending some rules in the process) just stands there saying nothing. :001_huh:

 

 

This.

[Guest submarines]

This.

 

But it is the other ones who will embarrass us later, when they are in a group setting and are expected to listen to their instructor, but instead they talk over the teacher because they know it all and know it better :lol:. (Yes, her brother is like this too).

 

I think there's no escape from being embarrassed. :D

 

But yeah, I've been in the above situation quite a number of times, and it is not easy for me. I keep telling myself that they are still benefiting. But I'm very aware that I look like a pushy mother. Oh well.

 

:grouphug:

[Halcyon]

I don't have any answers, wish I did. So far, what seems to work the best is to get her OUT of the high school environment. I can only imagine how she would have coasted at our local school... I get brought up short when we get the kind of comments that we got from a university on Monday, "I want MY girls to meet your girl. She's amazing!" See, it's hard to think of her as being amazing because she is so stealth. Plus, she's following her sis, plus being followed by ANOTHER really academic kid, her bro. She did a fabulous job on her first ROTC interview (another colonel let slip her score) and I wouldn't have expected that. I need to have higher expectations for her--that's something I didn't do a great job of... It's hard to look at her in light of the average bright ps kid, NOT in light of her sisters and brother. Don't do what I did and allow your kid to coast!!!!

 

 

Thanks. This is what I'm working on: finding that "sweet spot". :001_smile:

[catz]

Yes - my kids are like this and this is a big reason we homeschool. They would never willingly challenge themselves in a regular school environment. But not to the extent your child does it. They'd have no problem "bragging" to grandparents. But with a group of kids, they will go with the flow to fit in.

 

Personally, I actually think this is fine as long as it is not a confidence thing for a homeschooled kid to be this way as long as they have a good academic fit at home. It's actually a great adult skill to be able to fit in with many kinds of groups of people. My husband has excelled in his career because he gets along with the techies and the non-techies very well (he's trained as a techie). We always joke my oldest child could be a used car salesman because he can get along with anyone. I think it is good to keep trying to find peer groups that might share his more academic interests.

[justasque]

It sounds, in part, like he is starting to do code-switching with the Y kids, and just hasn't mastered it in terms of when and where and with whom it should be done. People who socialize with several quite different groups of people often code-switch. In my experience bright, well-educated kids who often hang out with groups of kids who may not be as bright or who have not had as many educational opportunities learn to do this. They may change their dialect, their accent, the subjects they talk about, etc.

 

As an example, a friend of mine was very well-off and well-educated, but had grown up in a very rural setting. I've seen her code-switch, when the situation called for it, such that you'd think she had spent all her life in West Virginia and never finished high school. It was not done in a mocking or condescending way; she was using language in a way that was appropriate to the situation and the community.

 

Lots of people have spoken about doing this; Will Smith comes to mind as someone who's been articulate on the subject.

 

So I wonder if it would help your son if you began an ongoing conversation about code-switching - when it's appropriate, when it's not, how to do it honestly, how to remain yourself but still blend in somewhat, when not to because it's going too far and squelching important parts of who you are.

[Halcyon]

It sounds, in part, like he is starting to do code-switching with the Y kids, and just hasn't mastered it in terms of when and where and with whom it should be done. People who socialize with several quite different groups of people often code-switch. In my experience bright, well-educated kids who often hang out with groups of kids who may not be as bright or who have not had as many educational opportunities learn to do this. They may change their dialect, their accent, the subjects they talk about, etc.

 

As an example, a friend of mine was very well-off and well-educated, but had grown up in a very rural setting. I've seen her code-switch, when the situation called for it, such that you'd think she had spent all her life in West Virginia and never finished high school. It was not done in a mocking or condescending way; she was using language in a way that was appropriate to the situation and the community.

 

Lots of people have spoken about doing this; Will Smith comes to mind as someone who's been articulate on the subject.

 

So I wonder if it would help your son if you began an ongoing conversation about code-switching - when it's appropriate, when it's not, how to do it honestly, how to remain yourself but still blend in somewhat, when not to because it's going too far and squelching important parts of who you are.

 

 

I've never heard of code-switching, but sounds spot on. Do you have any links or resources? Thank you.

[justasque]

I've never heard of code-switching, but sounds spot on. Do you have any links or resources? Thank you.

 

Did a bit of Googling and couldn't find much of use except for this discussion about code-switching in To Kill a Mockingbird.

 

It's essentially about being culturally bilingual. I'm assuming there's another term out there for it that I haven't heard, since "code-switching" doesn't seem to turn up much in The Google, even though that's what I've always called it. A number of Terry Gross's guests on Fresh Air over the years have mentioned doing it, though I can't remember specifically who except for Will Smith.

 

Sometimes it's got a racial framework, sometimes a cultural one (1st generation American kids who learn to blend in with their American school friends but code-switch when they are with people who share their family's national identity), sometimes a socio-economic one (kids from poor neighborhoods who go to expensive private schools or colleges learn to code-switch depending on who they are speaking with). While it can have a foreign language component (for some people it may be about, in part, when to speak Spanish vs. when to speak English), or a dialect component (rural South vs. urban NYC), there's often more to it than that. How you dress, what you discuss, kidding around vs. serious conversation, etc. can all come into play.

 

Lots of smart kids learn to do this. *Knowing* that you are doing it, and doing it from a place of choice and intelligence rather than shame or embarrassment is, IMHO, key to successfully navigating different cultural situations.

 

As homeschoolers, we're always talking about "socialization". It sounds like your son is learning how to navigate a different social group; that's a good thing, generally speaking. However, having you as a "safe" person to discuss it with (without judgement about the choices he's making, but rather creating a space/relationship in which he can bounce ideas off of you and share his feelings and concerns), can help him come out of the experience with his sense of who he is, and his comfort level about it, in good shape.

[Haiku]

I think part of it is the age. Kids the age of your ds start to become more self-conscious. I wouldn't worry about it, and I wouldn't comment on it unless he brings it up with you or is obviously distressed about it. Just because a child knows about something doesn't mean he has to want to talk about it.

 

I think my only concern is that when there's a chance to bond with someone (an adult or a child) over a topic of mutual interest--be it an academic topic, a book, anything--he will miss that opportunity, not simply because he won't "show off" but because he won't even converse.

 

Maybe the things he wants to bond over are not the things you want him to/think he would want to bond over.

 

Tara

Edited October 30, 2011 by TaraTheLiberator

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Why is it a *problem* that your son estimates when to demonstrate his knowledge and when not, rather than just blurting all he knows at all occasions imaginable? I do not see it as a problem, even if he claims sometimes not to know something he does know - he probably estimates it is not suitable.

 

Being smart is about knowing WHAT to say.

Being wise is about knowing WHETHER to say it, and if so, HOW.

 

You seem to have not only a smart, but also a wise kid. That is a GOOD thing! His lack of showing off for the sake of showing off is a GOOD thing! His not wanting to put his peers into a "in your face" situation in a group setting is a GOOD thing. His acting sometimes in an "age-appropriate" fashion is also a GOOD thing.

 

With time he will learn to recognize situation when it is in his interest NOT to act this way. For now, sounds good to me, nothing to worry about. I would be far more worried if I had a show offy child who could not resist NOT saying what they know in every situation that shows up - that is a harder skill to work on.

 

:iagree:

 

He has a right to keep his thoughts to himself. Nobody has to share, just because others (including their parents) know they have impressive things they could be saying.

 

 

 

Maybe the things he wants to bond over are not the things you want him to/think he would want to bond over.

 

Tara

 

:iagree:

 

Also true. I've come to see people as very privileged when my son chooses to include them in his thought life. He seeks people wiser than himself who share his passion and curiosity, and those people get to see the really, really neat person that he is. Everybody else sees his public persona: Friendly, smart, capable, but reserved. It is a nice public persona. Took him awhile to develop it, but I think it will wear well.

 

I used to really worry about my special and smart boy. I posted here about it, many times when he was still casting about for solutions to feeling different. Will he make friends? Will he keep learning? Will he become depressed for lack of intellectual stimulation?

 

He's 15 now and I don't worry anymore. Yes, he has friends. Yes, he's learning. No, he's not depressed. He's happy. He isn't just acting as if he's happy around people not-like-himself now. He really is happy. He has no IQ test for potential friends. He just finds the common ground and enjoys the moment.

 

I love that he doesn't look down on anyone. I love that he never shows off.

 

The new growth in his life is this: He doesn't brag, but neither does he restrain himself if he sees an opportunity for a good conversation or a need for his particular skills. He acts like a quiet, confident, capable, friend who can assume the role of 'leader' in almost any setting.

 

Let your boy find his feet, too. He has a right to hold his tongue while finding his feet.

[....]

He told me that the other kids were trying to figure out how to spell "million" and he wouldn't pipe in. He also saw that some 6th graders were working on the same material as he was in math, and were talking amongst themselves about how to solve a question.

 

I don't have any advice, but we recently realized that one of the neighborhood kids (a 7th grader at the ps) was studying the exact same thing my 4th grader was studying in math. :glare: I've actually TOLD my kids to keep quiet in those situations. Who knows how other kids would react.