Interesting conversation with exchange student--how to raise hard-working kids?

[Michelle in MO]

Yesterday we hired a mobile detailing company to clean out our van. They sent out a young man who had been an exchange student from Serbia to our local high school, a few years ago. He has just completed his bachelor's degree and has been hired by our local high school to teach math--three sections of algebra, one section of integrated algebra/geometry, and one section of probability and statistics.

 

We chatted for a while about education, and he confirmed much of what I already knew about education in other countries compared to the U.S. In Serbia, he took anywhere from 11 to 16 classes per school year! Now, these classes didn't meet every single day, but he typically went to school for 7 hours a day and had 3 hours or so of homework every night.

 

At any rate, he worked all day on our van and did a great job. The whole conversation got me thinking----how do we, as parents, raise hard-working kids? How do we teach our children a good work ethic, so that they are able to work hard all day long, have a good attitude and not complain?

 

My kids do chores around the house, but yes---they do complain about those. I hire them in the summer to do extra jobs---like yesterday afternoon, two of them cleaned out one of the rooms in the basement. Today and tomorrow they'll finish up the other rooms. So---they will get paid for these things. However, their financial need (i.e., want to buy new clothes) drives what they do. I expect this is true with most people---you need money, so you eventually are willing to work hard to take care of your needs/wants.

 

So, moms and dads, what do you do to teach your children a good, solid work ethic? I'm looking for ideas!

 

Thanks!

 

Oh---one other things: we were talking about the study of history, and I explained to him how we studied history chronologically here at home. He said when he was an exchange student at the h.s. that U.S. history was pretty much the sole focus. He said that he studied history much more like we do when he was in Serbia.

[Pamela H in Texas]

hmmmmm....

 

Well, I'll tell you that one thing I don't do is to pay them for almost anything. Fact is, they are part of the family and so these things need to be done. And complaining is left at the door unless it can be done in a manner that encourages discussion for a point. And I think that is important because a lousy attitude about something begets more of a lousy attitude and often, a less than stellar job. Where if a person can catch themselves thinking off and focus on doing a good job instead, they'll not only do the job well, but do so with a better attitude.

 

I LIKE the idea of harder working teens. That is why when I polled last week and saw that "balance" won out, I was like, 'yeah, it WILL work out.' Most courses my daughter takes the next two years will be lighter than me giving her similar assignments. She has PLENTY of time to do a normal class load (rather than our heavy one from the past) and still be out in the volunteer work 15-20 (even more) hours per week. She might play Puzzle Pirates a bit less though. I think I won't worry about that!

 

Now, I will say that though my kids started chores before they were 1 (you can walk, you can work) and such things, we didn't push academics when they were little. I really don't think that has to be part of the equation. I thin part of a good work ethic may be knowing how to play hard also. My hubby gets up between 2 and 3 am to go to work. He comes home dead tired, ready for supper and bed. ANd yet he knows there is value in playing Knowledge, or Uno, or Wii SPorts, or whatever with us. That isn't to say that there are NO days he doesn't just sit in front of the tv or computer or even goes to bed early. INstead, just that he spends more time taking care of household business, being dad, etc.

 

Not sure I'm making much sense here. Basically, I think kids aren't given a rigorous enough curriculum, enough quality family expectations, as well as enough play. I think knowing how to work hard and well with a good attitude is VERY important. But I think we should play hard also :)

[hsmamainva]

This is just my own "pet theory", but I think it comes down to not giving kids a sense that they deserve to have everything they want or need. The "I'm entitled to it" mindset drives alot of it. Also...we can't start chores when our kids are 5 and expect them to enjoy it. We need to start when they're babies.

 

My children started doing chores when they were old enough to walk -- of course, waiting while one of our kids took all the spoons out of the dishwasher basket at 15 months and handing them to you one at a time was like watching paint dry, but they learned at an early age to work and, at that age, they want to please you.

 

And, when they're older, give them real work to do. My son was around 5 or 6 years old when he overheard my SIL say that she had just had a cord of wood dropped in her driveway and she was commenting that she and her husband were going to have to stack it when he came home from work that night. My son begged and pleaded to go over to her house and stack the firewood. So my SIL patted him on his proverbial head and let him come over and join them, thinking he'd work for 10 minutes and then come inside and watch TV. He helped them stack an entire cord of firewood. She said that he must have worked with them, side by side, for 3 hours straight. They were flabbergasted.

 

Another case in point are the nephews of some good friends of ours. Their father had died and they helped their mom around the house. We had to move out of our home and to a neighboring state, at very short notice, and we desperately needed someone to come over and help us move. Our friend volunteered his nephews, who were 12 and 13 at the time.

 

Let me tell you, they were at our house at 6am and they worked until 8pm at night. They hauled and they lifted and they carried and they answered "Yes, Ma'am" and "No, Ma'am" -- even though I told them they could just call me by my first name. We paid them $100 each that evening and they stared at the money...and I heard from their uncle that they went home and took their picture with it...before giving half it to their mom to help pay the rent.

 

We moved an entire house - in one weekend - with the help of six children under the age of 14.

 

Can work ethic be taught at a later age? I don't know! But I would find real work for your kids to do, not just "simple chores" -- have them tackle something big, like hauling firewood, or mowing the lawn, or vacuuming every room in the house, or scrubbing all of the tubs and showers -- and don't make it paid work. They live in the house, too, and it's part of contributing to the family. (No one pays me to cook dinner or do the laundry....I do it because I'm the mom and it's my "job")

 

And it's done right or it's done over -- the same can be said for schoolwork.

 

*climbs down from her soapbox* ;)

[Peela]

I personally feel that although a healthy work ethic is a great thing, and its great to teach kids to get in an do what needs to be done, to be of service, to not live selfish lives....however

I cannot agree that more and more work, a workaholic mentality, is a healthy thing at all. In fact, I think it is a plague of western society, that people work too much, they value themselves by their careers, they don't know how to relax and just be and smell the roses, they worry to much about their personal future, and then they pass all this stress on to their kids.

I honestly think we should be teaching our kids to work, and to play, and how to live balanced, heartful lives, not how to run around like crazy being busy busy busy for the sake of it. Most people can't stand just doing nothing for a minute, let alone having time to really be with themselves and nature and God (whatever that means to them) each day.

I think a healthy society could easily run on each of us spending 4 hours a day doing paid work, contributing to the running of services and food production and basic needs, and then we could have time to really blossom as we found their passions and followed them- contributing in that way, too. I know, idealistic, but I still don't subscribe to the rat race mentality of spending as many hours a day as we possibly can working our butts off...for what? For whom? To prove what to whom?

I have European friends who tell me when they go back to Europe for a visit, their friends are too busy to spend time with them, everyone is working so hard just to survive. I don't know if its like that in America, but it's not that bad here in Australia yet, or at least not for everyone. In Asia, kids are pushed very very hard too...and you can imagine why, there being so much competition. Still, its all futile if you are not happy, if you are living for other people's values and ideals, and not following your heart.

I don't think that is a good way to live, personally.

[Halftime Hope]

I second everything Kelly said, but have a couple of additional thoughts:

 

1) We are very generous with our kids. They work hard and save their money, but often times we will subsidize a purchase or outright purchase things for them, things that many other families might choose or might need to require the child to pay for. For example, ds just upgraded from an acoustic guitar to an electric. There is no way in God's green earth that child could have paid for it on his own, given our circumstances (its pretty difficult for him to earn $), but instead of having him wait to earn the money for it, we heavily subsidized him on it. He is ready for it now, and we did not see any point in making him wait and losing valuable time in his being able to take the next step in developing his musical skills.

 

2) We have also chosen to teach our children *not* to buy the cheapest version of an item....depending on what we're talking about. Clothes? Yeah, I buy at a thrift store and look for timeless/sturdy brands at discounters. But I did not buy ds the cheapo starter guitar that would turn off all but the most determined beginner. We took a gamble and paid more for a good guitar, hoping that its playability and sound would warrant the effort he would be putting into learning it. And then I reminded him that to whom much is given, much is required. :) On other instruments, we've also paid more than the basic amount required for additional functionality that we thought would be a wise investment. So, depending on the situation, cheap isn't always best, if the upgrade is within budget tolerances.

 

3) Finally, expanding on what Peela said, there is more to life than *work* and than *academics*! We are relearning how to play hard as well!

 

hth

[Michelle in MO]

two daughters work very hard. The way they built a good work ethic into these two girls is they actually raised their allowance to about $120.00 a month! However, out of that money they have to purchase just about everything---their own clothes, shoes, personal items, etc. They also require them to give some money to their church each month and to also save money in their savings accounts.

 

The book this mom used was called How to Debt-Proof Your Kids or something like that. I think I should read it!

 

My kids can work hard, and they do chores daily, and we don't pay them for every job they do. There are some big jobs we tackle as a family, and no one gets paid. On the other hand, like with our basement-cleaning project this week, I am paying two of them. It is a large job, and I don't mind paying them.

 

Still, I feel like I'm "missing" something. I think they should be able to work hard when hard work is required, without complaint. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't. I would like to see more consistency, overall.

[Ms. Riding Hood]

Our exchange student is German. He was over last week and we were talking about his year here--the conversation was eerily similar to yours.

 

He, too, described their school schedule as covering many more subjects. For example, history might be studied 2-3 times/week for 45 min. per period. He has math, history, religion (Amazing! Secular Europe teaches religion in school. That's an interesting talk in itself!), French, German, English, science...which is biology, chemistry AND physics EACH year, not in succession, and it seems I'm forgetting something else. Anyway, how they heck to do they do all that? Our student, Peter, was amazed at the American system and how little was accomplished in a year. He noted that in American schools they do fewer subjects, do them for longer periods, and do them each day, yet cover less material.

 

The German schools also do history chronologically in a 3-4 year cycle. Peter noted that he covered ancient history in one year, while this year in American history they only covered 1492 - 1950. He was wondering how it could be that they didn't have enough time.

 

Peter was involved in sports all year here, and he said at first he almost went crazy trying to go to sports practices and then come home late and get all his homework done; after a while he gave up. He realized there was no way to do it all. So he would just skim his reading, or do other homework hurriedly and carelessly, without really understanding anything. Or...he would do some during study hall, since it is "empty" time during the American school day. He is concerned about going back to his German school after such a lax, easy year here; he has developed bad habits and grown lazy while in America.

 

I certainly see that Peter has been amazed by American riches. He is the son of Russian immigrants who work tedious factory jobs, and who gave him this exchange opportunity at great cost to themselves in order that he might gain proficiency in English--a language they see as highly marketable. Peter has commented on the American students' wastefulness, indifference to learning, and lack of concern for their future. Some of this is, I'm sure, because of his specific background.

 

As far as how to make our own kids workers, I can't say much different than the other posters. Meaningful work, from an early age, is important. Work because of duty, not pay, in our home and in other places, too. The whole idea of entitlement to *anything* drives me nuts, whether it's computer time or whatever. My dh is good at making work fun; he puts on music as we do dishes and everyone dances around. Or he makes a game out of whatever drudgery needs to get done. I'm more like a drill seargent; this is not the best or most effective way to motivate! But I have a hard time being any different. And in our kids some are natural workers while others are natural sluggards, so temperament plays a role.

 

I think I've jabbered aimlessly for long enough. :tongue_smilie:

[Riverfront Headmistress]

Just adding my .02 cents as a mom of exchange students and an area representative as well....many students comment on how easy our US schools are in comparision to their home country. Their workload is heavier and most have optional homework. In fact one of the chief complaints is that there is too much homework in America. In home countries the weight of grades comes from passing tests not weighted with homework.

[Michelle in MO]

It does indeed sound like your conversation was very similar to mine! The chronological study of history, the great number of subjects studied---very similar school systems, it sounds like!

 

Now, this student has obviously opted to stay here---maybe better opportunities here in America? I do think that, in both cases with these exchange students, the fact that they probably come from less-than-ideal backgrounds in terms of perhaps opportunities, or, in the case of the young man from Serbia, a country that endured a long civil war---at any rate, they've probably learned early on that life can be difficult and that they're going to have to make the most of the opportunities that they're given.

 

I too hate the sense of "entitlement" that I see in kids---and I do see it in my own, at times! I try to "stop" it when I see it, but I still want to do better! No---they're not "entitled" to tons of privileges; on the other hand, I don't want to be a slave driver. I want them to work hard, play hard (like Peela and Pamela said), and live well-rounded lives. I realize it's not all about the academics!

[danielle]

As I read these messages I was just trying to figure out how on earth my dd is going to do everything she has planned for next year. She was adamant about not going to our local (fairly high quality) high school because of the time wasted (p.e. and homebase were her particular complaints) and what she will have to give up. However, she will be in orchestra, which will take her 2 hours per day (15 minute commute each way). Then there's 2 hours of practicing a day. 2 music lessons per week (instrument and composition). History, literature (both Ancients), French, Latin, Advanced Algebra, Science, 2 volunteer projects. I come up with about 52 hours worth of work not including the volunteer stuff. I'll match that with any European system! If anything, I have to put a break on her work ethic so she can sleep.

Danielle

[Michelle in MO]

Danielle! In my conversation with this young man yesterday, it was obvious he had great character, a very strong work ethic, intelligent, motivated, etc. etc. Obviously he received a good education in Serbia, followed up by whatever time he had at the local high school.

 

I think it might be misleading to look strictly at the number of classes kids overseas have to take, coupled with how much time is spent doing homework, and necessarily equate that with success or better "results". I've heard or read that Japan has a great school system, but a very high rate of suicide among 11-12 year olds, because there is so much pressure on them to "succeed" and get in the right track leading to college and further success.

 

I think homeschooling can be a great benefit to many kids because homeschooling tends to be very efficient and allows kids to excel without fear of recrimination and yet have more free time. And, I do think there are excellent public schools out there! As for us, we'll be sending our kids to a private school 30 minutes away next year, for other reasons.

 

It sounds like your daughter will have plenty of challenge and will get an excellent education!

[summer]

I never pay my children for doing family responsibilities. I treat it like real life. They do their part around the house...without extra pay, because that is what real life is. No one is going to pay them to do their own laundry when they are grown ups. They learn that they are simply expected to be a part of the family and do their part without complaint. On the same token, I give them a house to live in, food in their stomachs, adequet clothing and such (beyond adequete actually) and I do not charge them for it. My older children have little trouble with money management as far as I can see because we do talk about how much things cost, ways to invest, banking, etc etc etc. I involve the older children in bill paying and some decision makings (i.e. we can purchase this, or we can save the money and purchase this other one in a year of saving). They really like to save. We also talk about the various things that gets people in trouble with credit and money and the importance of not having debt and how much debt costs you...you get the idea.

 

But back to the hard work, I think when children are paid for everything they do, they get the idea that they should not have to do something without payment and/or instant gratification.

[danielle]

I really agree with not paying for household work. To me, it seems like paid help. Dd is a respected and important family member, and as such is expected to contribute as much as possible to the workload. Tee-hee she is always shocked at what a mess her friends are! Last comment she made--"people think we have money because stuff is clean in our house". Mom: "how so?". dd: "Because no one else has a clean house unless they have a cleaning lady":confused:

Danielle

[dtsmamtj]

This is very interesting - thank you ladies.

 

T

[Karenciavo]

I often think about this question and I usually think of my own experience. My siblings and I are all extremely hard workers. We were 7 who grew up in a very poor family. We all had to work around the house and outside the house as soon as possible, e.g. paper routes at 10 that contributed to the family (Unfortunately, my father drank most of the money away.) Anyway, adversity can be a fantastic trainer, but I certainly don't want my dc to go through the kind of adversity I went through, so what to do? Even though I have tried to train their characters so they view hard work as an integral part of good character (I don't mean the amount of work, I mean the quality) they still don't live up to my expectations. They are praised by other adults for their work ethic though, but I wonder if those adults are used to sub par so my dc with their slightly elevated effort thrills them. :sigh: Right now I'm praying about *my* expectations and still trying to come up with answers. I'm baffled I think :001_smile:

[Rosie_0801]

2) We have also chosen to teach our children *not* to buy the cheapest version of an item....depending on what we're talking about. Clothes? Yeah, I buy at a thrift store and look for timeless/sturdy brands at discounters. But I did not buy ds the cheapo starter guitar that would turn off all but the most determined beginner. We took a gamble and paid more for a good guitar, hoping that its playability and sound would warrant the effort he would be putting into learning it. And then I reminded him that to whom much is given, much is required. :) On other instruments, we've also paid more than the basic amount required for additional functionality that we thought would be a wise investment. So, depending on the situation, cheap isn't always best, if the upgrade is within budget tolerances.

 

 

I very much agree with this! There's a time for cheap, we shop at op shops too :) But there's a time to spend. I hope ours learn which to do over which items. My sewing lessons at age 8 came to a halt because the belt broke on my machine, and no one ever replaced it. *sigh* I could have been a dressmaking genius by now! I don't suppose kids can feel we value their efforts if we're only willing to buy reject shop materials or mere toys (thinking of those horrid toy sewing machines here) for them.

Anyway, speaking of hard work. I was a "professional" toilet cleaner at age 8. I remember telling Dad that it wasn't fair that I did half the work and only got a quarter of the pay. He said I could have that or nothing, so I complained about the lack of union when one works for their parents, and took the quarter.

:)

Rosie

[Halftime Hope]

They are praised by other adults for their work ethic though, but I wonder if those adults are used to sub par so my dc with their slightly elevated effort thrills them. :sigh: Right now I'm praying about *my* expectations and still trying to come up with answers. I'm baffled I think :001_smile:

 

Karenciavo,

 

Random thoughts...

 

I wonder, have you watched your children when they are working for other adults? Certainly there is a range of expectations, as the adults with whom they are working are individuals, as well. However, I think that the norm would be that the children would be expected to work steadily, without complaining, and keep at it until a break is announced, and eventually, until the time or the task is completed. Perhaps your children do work hard, but it is because they are trying harder to please outsiders, so their work is much better than at home. (We've seen that a lot.) OTOH, prehpas your standards are above "normal range". My dh is that way: he can get more done in several hours than anyone I know, because he wants to work hard then relax deeply. He then expects that everyone in the house will work the same way. We don't all want to work his way all the time, for a variety of legitimate reasons.

 

In my household, we are also trying *intentionally* to teach the children to anticipate what the next move might be as they are working, or if it is not obvious, to ask what it will be. We are training that specific mindset as one is working.

 

Blessings~

[staceyneil]

Thanks for starting this thread!

 

This is really the one issue I feel we have with DD Olivia. She is such an awesome kid in every other way, but we are really struggling with the whole chore/responsibility thing. I know it is our own fault because we didn't start asking her to help out around the house (beyond picking up her toys) until she was 7 or 8. So now she has to learn that kind of work ethic from scratch...

 

Of course, other adults say she's great and responsible, but at home I feel like I am always nagging her about something. Last year, after she would constantly "forget" to do her very few daily responsibilities (pick up her room, empty the dishwasher, take a shower, check the chickens for food/water and clean their poop board, clean the cat box, empty the recycling bottles) we tried to help her remember by making a list with check-mark boxes that is kept on the fridge. Even with that list, she often "forgets". Or does a SERIOUSLY sub-standard job, like throwing all the junk from her floor into her closet and shutting the door! We tried tying the list to her allowance (though I personally think that household responisbilities should bot be considered paid work, but part of being a faimly... but we were desperate) but since her allowance is already pretty meager (<$2) and she really doesn't have any daily petty-cash needs, it didn't really mean much that it got withheld when she didn't do her list well. In fact I don't think she's gotten an allowance in months, because she always has days when things dont get done.

 

We ask VERY little of her. Maybe that's the problem...??? On the other hand, as it is some days she only has an hour of free time after school and extracurricular activities, and I hate to have her lose that to more chores.

 

It's the reluctance to help, the complaining and moaning and tears about being asked to, and the shoddy work that make me really sad. This kid is just so WONDERFUL in nearly every other way, but she's going to have a hard time if she doesn't learn a better work ethic for menial chores, I think...

 

Thanks for letting me ramble.... I'll keep watching this thread, thanks!

 

Stacey in Maine

[Michelle in MO]

do any of you give your kids an allowance? We've usually given our kids an allowance---not exhorbitant, I don't think, but enough for some spending money. We tie this in to them having to do their chores around the house. If they don't do their chores, or complain about doing them, we "dock" them a portion of their allowance. Is this wrong?

 

Like I mentioned before, I have a friend whose two girls are very hard-working, and I believe they pay them about $120/month! However, the girls have to do all their jobs without complaining and anything else mom or dad ask of them. Plus, they have to buy everything with this money---movie tickets, clothes, even personal items like makeup and shampoo and other stuff. They have followed this routine for a while, based upon a book called (I think) How to Debt-Proof Your Kids. Maybe there are other factors going on in the family, but I've been impressed with her kids---they are hard-working, they don't complain (too much), and they're very responsible.

 

So, I'm wondering---what's the right approach?