Is this patriotism or ethnocentrism disguised as patriotism?

[AvasMom]

Just curious what others think of this. I can't think of a single American that doesn't complain about the government from time to time. That's one of our freedoms that we make liberal use of. lol! So does that only apply to natural born citizens? What about American expats? Are they allowed to complain about the government where they live?

 

Someone I know had someone complain on the phone to her about America and said she wished she had never moved here (sounded to me like the lady was probably having a crappy day and/or was frustrated with the same things we are frustrated with...economy and such). She posted the situation on FB and how she was so mad and wanted to tell them off, etc, etc. All the replies concurred with those sentiments and shared the righteous indignation. I disagreed that it was THAT earth shattering and got some pretty nasty replies in return. Eventually someone did come out and say straight up that when you are born here that's fine but if not then you aren't part of "the family" and if you have a complaint then you should get out. At what point are people allowed to have a bad day and vent without being called "anti-American" and told to get out?

 

The sudden, convenient self-righteousness makes me shake my head.

[Sharon H in IL]

Well, expecting reasonable discussion on facebook was your first mistake. :lol:

 

Block that discussion, and don't attempt to discuss anything more serious than home remedies for sore throats and the antics of your cat.

 

People post on facebook looking for affirmation, not reasonable disagreement. You broke the rules, and were punished. Very childish, but that's the way it seems to run.

 

Sorry it was painful. I do understand. ;)

[AvasMom]

Well, expecting reasonable discussion on facebook was your first mistake. :lol:

 

Block that discussion, and don't attempt to discuss anything more serious than home remedies for sore throats and the antics of your cat.

 

People post on facebook looking for affirmation, not reasonable disagreement. You broke the rules, and were punished. Very childish, but that's the way it seems to run.

 

Sorry it was painful. I do understand. ;)

 

LOL! Good point and very true. So, how does one block a discussion anyway? I hate that if you even "like" a comment you get notified about every. single. reply. Ugh. I keep wanting to unsub or something.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

No, it's not patriotism, but the people spouting that line THINK that it is patriotism. Someone wrote an editorial recently in our local paper that "you canNOT say that you support our troops and then say that you disagree with the war in Iraq". :confused: Newsflash: Many of us, including some INSIDE THE MILITARY disagree with the war in Iraq, but they still go because that is what they agreed to do. I still support them because they are doing what they agreed to do.

 

I think that this is a good country. Not "the best on earth" in many ways, as many claim, just good. It's not either/or.

[LeslieAnneLevine]

I'm with you OP. I dare those people to move to another country indefinitely and not ever have a complaint about it.

eta: I also think it was rude of the person to pass along that comment on FB.

[Rosie_0801]

I don't think it is either, merely poor quality thought.

 

Rosie

[Laura Corin]

I certainly found things to complain about when I lived in China. I wouldn't have made those complaints in public unless asked for my honest opinion. I was a guest in that country.

 

Now when I lived in Hong Kong I became a permanent resident with voting rights. At that point, I felt that HK was 'my' responsibility and I wasn't a guest any more.

 

I'm in a strange situation now: I'm British and English. I live in Scotland. I wouldn't complain publicly about aspects of Scottish culture that I find strange or irritating, but I would complain about political/bureaucratic issues, as I have a vote and I use services. Does that make sense?

 

For me, it's less about patriotism than about courtesy on both sides: courtesy as a guest and courtesy to a guest.

 

Laura

[nono]

Just curious what others think of this. I can't think of a single American that doesn't complain about the government from time to time. That's one of our freedoms that we make liberal use of. lol! So does that only apply to natural born citizens?

 

No I don't think it applies to only natural born citizens. I think it should apply less as we didn't have to do anything to get here, not even take a test at some point. The citizens who've earned their way into this country, and who've first hand experience of how it goes elsewhere? I think we should be listening to them, not telling them they can't talk. Boggles my mind! :confused:

[AvasMom]

I don't think it is either, merely poor quality thought.

 

Rosie

 

This is why I love this place. :D We have people who use logic and are able to form a coherent thought. That is so rare these days. *sigh*

[AvasMom]

I certainly found things to complain about when I lived in China. I wouldn't have made those complaints in public unless asked for my honest opinion. I was a guest in that country.

 

Now when I lived in Hong Kong I became a permanent resident with voting rights. At that point, I felt that HK was 'my' responsibility and I wasn't a guest any more.

 

I'm in a strange situation now: I'm British and English. I live in Scotland. I wouldn't complain publicly about aspects of Scottish culture that I find strange or irritating, but I would complain about political/bureaucratic issues, as I have a vote and I use services. Does that make sense?

 

For me, it's less about patriotism than about courtesy on both sides: courtesy as a guest and courtesy to a guest.

 

Laura

 

That makes complete sense. Glad to hear someone who can articulate it like an adult rather than run to the soapboxes with red, white, and blue pitchforks in hand. :lol:

[Heather in Neverland]

I love Malaysia and I also complain about it.

 

I love America and I also complain about it.

 

I am an equal opportunity complainer/praiser. :D

[saw]

I think there's also different categories of complaints. One that goes to the heart of the culture, the other to things that don't. When we lived in France, I found it annoying that some businesses shut for lunchtime and that ds had a two-hour lunchbreak from school. I had to time errands around the lunchtime of the businesses and be around to pick ds up from school. I didn't complain, though (at least not publicly or to French friends/acquaintances) because that's the way it works there. I did complain, am complaining and will continue to complain about the way the French health insurance system refuses to accept my adopted son as my son. We pay for insurance that they won't let us have because they cannot wrap their heads around adoption. I find this wrong and stupid, no matter where you are.

I'm not always sure where I draw the line, though, and I'm much more likely to complain about my home countries than my guest countries. I did just get registered to vote in England where I live now, though, not sure how that got managed, so I gues I now have a voice here too (a nice lady from the council came by last night and told me I can register to vote, so I did!). Very odd.

Edited October 26, 2011 by saw
clarification of location

[chiguirre]

I felt free to voice my dissent in Venezuela. I wasn't a citizen but I paid taxes and my kids are Venezuelan. I've even participated in protest marches in Caracas. OTOH, I didn't complain or protest in Argentina because we were only there for a year. Laura Corin's distinction between being a guest or feeling responsible expresses the difference nicely.

[Sharon H in IL]

That makes complete sense. Glad to hear someone who can articulate it like an adult rather than run to the soapboxes with red, white, and blue pitchforks in hand. :lol:

 

Great phrase! :D

[gardenmom5]

those who were not born here, but moved here, CHOSE to come here. If they then do major complaining about this country, I have NO respect for their complaints because they CHOSE to come here. If they hate it so much, they can go back to the country they came from. (or move to a new one.)

[WishboneDawn]

those who were not born here, but moved here, CHOSE to come here. If they then do major complaining about this country, I have NO respect for their complaints because they CHOSE to come here. If they hate it so much, they can go back to the country they came from. (or move to a new one.)

 

I see a couple of problems with this.

 

One, complaints do not equal hate. Sometimes you complain because you love something, see it's potential and are frustrated that it's not meeting that potential.

 

The other problem I see is that if you've CHOSEN to live somewhere it's very likely you've earned you're citizenship/residency the hard way in a manner no one who was simply born there has had to. I was born in Canada. I didn't have to pass any ctiizenship tests or wait on a list for years. I have no idea why my lack of effort entitles me to complain where someone who's clearly gone out of there way to become a citizen/resident is rewarded by being told to be quiet.

[Ester Maria]

You are lucky if you can complain about your country.

 

Imagine the horror of holding a passport of a certain country where people eat a lot of pasta and talk loudly. They simply do not have the luxury of complaining - their country is just... well... perfect. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

(Sorry, I could not resist. :lol: For the record, I complain about all countries I was or am somehow tied to or where I reside/d - I just try to be wise about where, to whom and in what circumstances the complaining takes place, LOL.)

[AvasMom]

those who were not born here, but moved here, CHOSE to come here. If they then do major complaining about this country, I have NO respect for their complaints because they CHOSE to come here. If they hate it so much, they can go back to the country they came from. (or move to a new one.)

 

Why is choice a disqualifier though? That's what I'm not understanding. We CHOSE to homeschool but when I'm having a bad day you all hear about it. We CHOSE the join the Navy but I could talk your ear off complaining about some of the aspects of military life. Do you truly not complain about things in your life that were choices? I think we all do that so I'm not seeing why it's so different in this situation.

[AvasMom]

You are lucky if you can complain about your country.

 

Imagine the horror of holding a passport of a certain country where people eat a lot of pasta and talk loudly. They simply do not have the luxury of complaining - their country is just... well... perfect. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

(Sorry, I could not resist. :lol: For the record, I complain about all countries I was or am somehow tied to or where I reside/d - I just try to be wise about where, to whom and in what circumstances the complaining takes place, LOL.)

 

I have a complaint about that country. They need to take their influence on our food culture BACK where it came from. It's making me fat and I don't appreciate that. :tongue_smilie:

[LaxMom]

No I don't think it applies to only natural born citizens. I think it should apply less as we didn't have to do anything to get here, not even take a test at some point. The citizens who've earned their way into this country, and who've first hand experience of how it goes elsewhere? I think we should be listening to them, not telling them they can't talk. Boggles my mind! :confused:

 

You mean {gasp} acknowledge people have an actual basis for comparison? Shocking!

 

I would personally avoid FB discussions of sore throat remedies, too. Those can get ugly. I haven't figured out why people think everyone they've ever met -and some who have only met people they've met - is not only interested in every random thought they have, but also that they are (obviously) in complete agreement. That's what boggles my mind.

Edited October 26, 2011 by MyCrazyHouse
Grammatical heresy

[WishboneDawn]

You mean {gasp} acknowledge people have an actual basis for comparison? Shocking!

 

I would personally avoid FB discussions of sore throat remedies, too. Those can get ugly. I haven't figured out why people think everyone they've ever met -and some who have only met people they've met - is not only interested in every random thought they have, but also that they are (obviously) in complete agreement. That's what boggles my mind.

 

I generally stay out of anything serious on Facebook, good or bad. I don't enter heated discussions and I don't re-post cause related stuff (no matter how close-to-my-heart or virtuous)unless it's very light. It's not a good forum for that kind of stuff.