great blog post on the reality of working through college

[cathmom]

http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2011/10/13/a-dose-of-financial-reality/

 

He breaks down the numbers comparing an average high school grad in 1970 and today, and the financial realities both faced.

[twoforjoy]

Thank you so much for posting this.

 

My parents bought a home in 1980 in NJ for $30K. They sold it in 2010 for $300K.

 

My DH and I were just talking a few nights ago about how silly this idea of a student working their way through college is, particularly for full-time students going to anything other than a community college. My husband worked more than anybody we know (we were full-time students at a pretty well-regarded state school). He probably put in 20-25 hours/week for most of his college career. He didn't make enough to cover his housing costs, much less his housing, tuition, books, and all other expenses. It's much worse today, and I can't imagine how a full-time student could actually manage to work enough to pay for tuition, living expenses, and other costs.

[Bluegoat]

I think too that people forget that when someone is working full time, or even a real part-time 20 hour a week job, it can impact the quality of the education. Especially for anyone who is hoping to go into an academic field and really needs to immerse themselves in the material, and in the intellectual life of the college.

 

A lot of learning happens outside of class, but not if you are at work all the time.

[Denise in Florida]

Thank you for the link. I get frustrated when my friends say they can't or won't help their kids with college because the kids "need to do it on their own". Yeah? How does that work anyway?

 

Dh and I put ourselves through college in the late 70's early 80's. It was possible and not really much of a hardship. I don't expect my girls to be able to do it without help.

[regentrude]

I think too that people forget that when someone is working full time, or even a real part-time 20 hour a week job, it can impact the quality of the education. Especially for anyone who is hoping to go into an academic field and really needs to immerse themselves in the material, and in the intellectual life of the college.

 

A lot of learning happens outside of class, but not if you are at work all the time.

 

:iagree:

Also, do not forget the long term financial situation: getting the good job because you have a great GPA will pay back much more money than you can earn working minimum wage while being a student and getting a not-so-good job with a low GPA because you can not put in enough time.

Same goes for the money lost because you have to repeat a class or even stay a semester longer.

 

I understand that some students must work, because there is no alternative. I know, however, that it makes much more sense financially for a student to spend the 50-60 hour week on studying and graduate with top grades and research experience.

[linguistmama]

One of the comments mentioned the possibility of an education bubble eventually collapsing. That's an interesting thought to me and I wonder what the reality of college will be when my girls get there. If it keeps going the way it is now I expect that they will need a Master's Degree or higher for many jobs that today only require a BA.

[Joanne]

Working and good grades are possible. I put myself through undergraduate and worked both work study and off campus.

 

I worked more than one job and was a full time student for the last 2 years.

 

In most cases, I am a believer in both.

[Mrs Mungo]

My last year of school was incredibly stressful to the point of me almost having a breakdown. At some point, there are only so many hours in the day.

[6packofun]

I'd love to print this out...does that blog offer a print option for the posts?? I'm either missing it or the blogger hasn't figured out that it's a very valuable feature... LOL

[SKL]

I did it various ways back in the day (started college in 1983). Funny thing is, my highest GPAs were earned when I was the most busy. Such as the semester when I was taking 20 upper-division credits and working 60 hours per week at 2 jobs.

 

Being in the "real world" (i.e., working at a regular, private industry job) actually provides an intellectual edge in college/grad school. For example, I blew operations management away because I was the only student who had actually worked on an assembly line and such. Having a "real job" also provides a social edge for the future. I think too much of the campus environment can influence students in ways that aren't entirely helpful after graduation.

 

That said, the stats were enlightening, and I've always said I want my kids to do as much as they "can" toward their education, but I will help if that's not enough. I'm not sure exactly what that will look like.

[Cindy in C-ville]

We simply do not have the financial resources to help our children through college, except for a very minimal amount. My oldest received some scholarships, has taken out loans, and used her summer work money toward tuition. She is applying to be an RA on campus next year which will cut her tuition by half and she'll have a free meal plan. Our 2nd is applying for scholarships and we are hopeful she will receive substantial help. We'll see.

 

Cathmom, thanks for the article. Discouraging, but I think it's important to be able to look at the financial picture realistically.

[Hen]

Being in the "real world" (i.e., working at a regular, private industry job) actually provides an intellectual edge in college/grad school. For example, I blew operations management away because I was the only student who had actually worked on an assembly line and such....

 

My dh worked his way through college. He has a civil engineering degree- in his concrete class in college, he was the only student who owned a pair of steel toed boots..the only student who had worked in construction, he had been working construction since he was 16. I thought the disconnect between class work and experience was disturbing.

 

we are expecting our kids to work their way through college, but I agree that financial realities have changed- class costs are so high now, we will help as much as we can. I do tend to feel though, that beyond a medical or nursing degree- other students do have the time to work part time, and that the experience would be an education in itself. I want my kids to value each class, not take them for granted because they are getting a free ride from mom and dad.

[Bluegoat]

It's interesting to see those who found working in college helpful experience. I think it must depend to an extent on what you study. My major was classics, and working was always a real pull against something else I should have been doing (Greek say) or wanted to be doing (sitting around the department tossing around ideas on the paper I was writing.)

 

I had a friend who didn't have to work at all during school, and he even was able to spend time on intensive language work in the summer. There was just no way anyone who worked much could keep up with the amount of reading he got done. On a paper I might have time to go in depth on the text, but he'd have found all the recent relevant journal articles in the library as well.

[SKL]

It's interesting to see those who found working in college helpful experience. I think it must depend to an extent on what you study. My major was classics, and working was always a real pull against something else I should have been doing (Greek say) or wanted to be doing (sitting around the department tossing around ideas on the paper I was writing.)

 

I had a friend who didn't have to work at all during school, and he even was able to spend time on intensive language work in the summer. There was just no way anyone who worked much could keep up with the amount of reading he got done. On a paper I might have time to go in depth on the text, but he'd have found all the recent relevant journal articles in the library as well.

 

Well, in my last 2 years of undergrad, I was studying "general studies" (a self-designed program) and it was mostly English, psych, soc, and poli sci. This was when I was working 60 hours and taking 20 credits. There were a lot of research papers, obviously; and my work wasn't related to those particular subjects (it became more relevant in grad school and after graduation). I also lived and worked about 15 miles from the campus (and had limited use of the family car). This was pre-internet, btw. But I found I was able to be really efficient in my research. Somehow having less time to do something meant I got more done in less time.

 

The other theory is that I was a skilled BS-er.

 

In the big picture, though, it's one thing to ace undergrad, and another thing to have acquired marketable skills. Given a choice, I'd choose the latter; and I feel having private industry job experience prior to graduation increases the chances of the latter.

[Bluegoat]

Well, in my last 2 years of undergrad, I was studying "general studies" (a self-designed program) and it was mostly English, psych, soc, and poli sci. This was when I was working 60 hours and taking 20 credits. There were a lot of research papers, obviously; and my work wasn't related to those particular subjects (it became more relevant in grad school and after graduation). I also lived and worked about 15 miles from the campus (and had limited use of the family car). This was pre-internet, btw. But I found I was able to be really efficient in my research. Somehow having less time to do something meant I got more done in less time.

 

The other theory is that I was a skilled BS-er.

 

In the big picture, though, it's one thing to ace undergrad, and another thing to have acquired marketable skills. Given a choice, I'd choose the latter; and I feel having private industry job experience prior to graduation increases the chances of the latter.

 

There is something to this, and I agree that for many people, having to make real decisions about time is helpful.

 

But in the end I don't see the main purpose of a university to be giving people job skills. It's to think deeply about things, and that requires time alone, and time with others in the academic community.

[Ginevra]

Working and good grades are possible. I put myself through undergraduate and worked both work study and off campus.

 

I worked more than one job and was a full time student for the last 2 years.

 

In most cases, I am a believer in both.

 

:iagree:

[SKL]

There is something to this, and I agree that for many people, having to make real decisions about time is helpful.

 

But in the end I don't see the main purpose of a university to be giving people job skills. It's to think deeply about things, and that requires time alone, and time with others in the academic community.

 

You'd be amazed at how much time I had for thinking while doing repetitive tasks while wearing hearing protection on my 12-hour factory shifts! :lol: I used to sing every song I knew and still have time to figure out new ways to save the world several times per day.

[Sevilla]

This was certainly true for my DH and myself. I worked part-time in college to pay for some living expenses/entertainment expenses but had a scholarship and college fund to pay for tuition and housing. I was not stressed, I graduated on time, and I came out with no debt.

 

DH had no college fund, and in an attempt to avoid loans (b/c his parents wouldn't cosign) he struggled to work several nightshifts per week at the same time as going to college full-time during the day (doing two different colleges b/c community college was cheaper than traditional 4 year so he did classes at both locations). It was so unhealthy for him physically and mentally and he ended up not graduating on time b/c he was juggling too many plates at a time. Things were different for his younger siblings who were allowed to get enough loans to attend the same college for four years, and they graduated on time with FAR FAR less stress in their lives.

 

We're pretty committed to helping our kids with college as much as we can if they prove they are willing to work hard at it.

[RegGuheert]

Thanks for the link, cathmom!

 

Home ownership was not enough of a debt trap so now the requirement for a college education (or two) has been added to the mix.

 

If you want to boil a live frog, you must turn up the heat gradually...

 

I often look at England to see where this all goes. I really believe many (most?) in England can no longer afford to live. We are headed there also...

[BarbecueMom]

My last year of school was incredibly stressful to the point of me almost having a breakdown. At some point, there are only so many hours in the day.

 

This happened to me too, senior year. I couldn't work 24-28 hours/week at Wal-Mart, teach two lessons, work five hours/week in the theory lab to keep my scholarship, attend concerts (required for major), go to the language/theory labs for class, study, practice, tour with ensembles, and take 17 credit hours for a music major with a political science minor and expect to graduate. Something had to give, and it was work. Thankful for Stafford loans, or my GPA would have been in the toilet.

 

DH was a business major with an ROTC scholarship, monthly stipend, and a World of Warcraft account. :glare:

[Shellydon]

Working and good grades are possible. I put myself through undergraduate and worked both work study and off campus.

 

I worked more than one job and was a full time student for the last 2 years.

 

In most cases, I am a believer in both.

 

 

Agreed! I worked 32 hours a week my last few semesters of grad school in a degree that is quite rigorous.