Wwyd, how would you feel, co-op question (long)

[RachelFlores]

We are part of a classical co-op this year that meets once a week and is very academically oriented. We just completed our 6th week of co-op. My dd turned 6 this past month (9/11), and was required to be in the kindergarten class because the co-op has a September 1st cut off policy. When I joined, I made it clear that I would like her in the 1st grade group, but was ok with her being in the kindergarten group if that is where they felt she belonged. The co-op has a board of directors and one of them is my friend, she advocated for dd being in the first grade group, but the rest said that since she was an unknown quantity AND the first grade class was already large, they wanted her in the kindergarten class.

I was fine with this till I found out that this is a YOUNG kindergarten class, the next oldest child will turn 6 in May. There is a little girl in the 1st grade class who is only 3 weeks older than dd, but meets the September 1st cutoff date along with a few other children in 1st grade having summer birthdays. She obviously fits better age wise with the 1st graders. Then I found out they separate the preschool and kindergarteners on one playground and let the 1st graders on up play on a different playground. She would not have much chance to make friends (one of my main reasons for being part of a co-op) with the girls who are more her age.

I expressed my concerns to a few people who said it would all work out and my dd would fit in fine, that she would be able to make friends with the 1st graders and the kindergarteners. I told my friend that I would give it a chance, but if it wasn't working I would bring it up.

It isn't working. Dd is more advanced than the other kindergarteners and is not making close friends with any of them. I teach both the 1st graders and the kindergarteners in history and I KNOW dd would fit in better with the 1st grade class. Plus dd tries to play with the 1st graders when the come over to the younger kid playground and they shun her because she is a kindergartener (one of these girls was her friend before co-op started and now won't play with her).

I do NOT express my concerns with dd or in front of her to others, EVER. I am extremely careful about this. Yesterday dd came to me and started naming the kids in 1st grade telling me they were all 6 and she was six so why wasn't she a first grader and could she please just try out the first grade class?

I have sent an email to my friend asking if she thinks there is any chance of changing dd to the 1st grade class. I have no idea what she will say. I don't want all the other moms (who are her teachers) upset and possibly resentful. I feel that IF they let her move up everyone will be expecting her to be spectacular and wow them all with her academics which won't really happen. She is on level with the first graders, but not ahead of them. If they don't let her be part of 1st grade, I feel like we just have to make the best of it because I committed to being part of the co-op for a whole year and I know it would put a real hardship on the rest of the group if I left, BUT I truly hate the idea of dd feeling like she doesn't fit in (as is obviously the case).

What would you do? Dd still likes co-op and the playground politics are not an every week occurrence. At home, I teach her on her level so I am not particularly worried about academics at co-op. I am worried about friendships though. IF she moved up there is no guarantee that the other 1st graders would then want to be friends with her and the Kindergarteners might be upset at her too. It could lead to greater ostracism. Should I just make the best of a difficult situation? If you were (or are) part of a co-op, how would you feel if a mom (new to the co-op) wanted to move their child up a grade level? Thank you for reading all of this. Any advice is appreciated.

[Lily_Grace]

If the email came back as a rejection I'd be doing some serious thinking. Honestly, I would have to ultimately decide that the co-op was not for us. I don't like the idea of separating all the children into grade levels and not letting them interact. It seems to be the antithesis of what homeschooling is about. It doesn't seem to meet yours or your daughter's needs, either. She's not where she needs to be socially or academically, so why stay?

[In2why]

I think one of the important positives to homeschooling is teaching our children on their level instead of based on their age, so this would be a big deal for me, but I am not sure that it is right to try to change a group where you knew the rules going into it. So it is an interesting balance.

 

I also think that it is obvious that this group as it is now isn't meeting your daughters need for academic stimulation and making friends. If it were me I would ask to meet with the co-op board and present my case about academic skills and the age gap in the kindergarten class. At the meeting I wouldn't get emotional or confrontational, but I would make it clear that the kindergarten class wasn't acceptable, and that you are seeing if the co-op is something that can still be of use to your family.

[Aubrey]

I would be a terrible coop mom, so take what I say w/ a grain of salt.

 

Why would YOU honor your commitment to the group if they're not honoring their commitment to you--to offer academic enrichment to your dd? You said you'd try the K class. You did. It's not working. They really should have seen--or at least be able to see now--that it's not working. You're not asking for the moon. If they have to be snotty about *this*--a year is a long time to put up w/ that. If their attitude shorts them a teacher, well.

 

Plus, it's a hs coop. Besides common sense about a 6yo, there *ought* to be at least a little built-in flexibility for people. My ds has a winter bday, & when he was about 4-6, this was hard. I started him on the early side, he could read, he was always a very serious kid. He did not fit in AT ALL w/ the class he was put in (preschool), but his bday was so far out & he was so little that I didn't press the issue, but he came home so. sad. every day. And he couldn't really tell me why. Until I pulled him out & he started coming to life again.

 

I know your situation isn't the same--I was working & had little choice, but I tend to put myself in my kids' shoes, & if the situation isn't something I'd be willing to "tough out" or that I (as an adult) see any good reason/benefit/life lesson to sticking w/...well, I told you I wouldn't be a good coop mom. :tongue_smilie:

[mycalling]

I would be a terrible coop mom, so take what I say w/ a grain of salt.

 

Why would YOU honor your commitment to the group if they're not honoring their commitment to you

:iagree:

 

You've been more than open-minded about their desires, now it's time for them to care about yours...and your daughter's. I'd tell them move her up or they'll have two more history classes to teach.

[MSNative]

I love my co-op but I think PencilPusher and I agree. Questions to ask yourself: Why did you join the co-op? Academics or friendships - not working for you. What are you gaining from your co-op experience? What is your dd gaining from it? From what you've described, it doesn't sound like this co-op is what you need - if they are unwilling to allow your daughter to move up.

 

I'd also be concerned about the girl who won't play with your dd 'cause she doesn't play with younger kids. Is that a widespread attitude or just one girl. If it's widespread - run.

 

FWIW, I've been in another co-op. It wasn't worth it for my family for lots of reasons - expensive, hard to make friends, low academic standards, etc. I luckily found a small, academic, true co-op (not a pay for your kid to take a class while you go shop like the others). I'm so glad I didn't settle.

 

Ouch, just reread and saw that you committed to teaching. I would have a hard time leaving if I made a commitment. Hope they will work with you. If not, can you find a person to take your classes over?

Edited October 2, 2011 by MSNative

[angela in ohio]

I think it's fine to ask once, but then you will need to abide by the decision.

 

I can really see their side. Every homeschooler wants their dc to be in the next grade level up. They have to set a policy or it becomes a mess. You may not have been homeschooling long enough to see the other side, but you will see as the years go by. If they let your dd move up (which seems reasonable based on her birthdate,) then it sets a precedent for all the unreasonable requests to use in their defense. They have to pick a date, and Sept. 1 makes sense. She would probably be in K if she were in school, depending on your district's policy.

 

When you join a group, you lose a lot of the flexibility of being an individual. In order for the whole group to run well, each person has to give up a bit, or you can't have a group (that's why so many homeschool groups/co-ops fail, trust me.) So you have to decide if being in the group is worth abiding by this rule or not. Once you decide that, don't look back.

 

[i don't understand the big age gap in kindergarten, though. How do they not have any students born from September of one year to May of the next? That doesn't make sense to me. The one thing I might do is check to see if they might have moved some of those students up. If so, then they aren't applying the rule evenly to begin with, and then I do think you have room to argue your side.]

 

In the meantime, I would be speaking to the directors or parents about the way the 1st graders are treating your dd, and I would be speaking to dd about how she can be a leader. No one wants their dc to be the oldest in a group, but someone's kiddos has to be. There are things to be learned, though, about leadership.

[JFSinIL]

If the email came back as a rejection I'd be doing some serious thinking. Honestly, I would have to ultimately decide that the co-op was not for us. I don't like the idea of separating all the children into grade levels and not letting them interact. It seems to be the antithesis of what homeschooling is about. It doesn't seem to meet yours or your daughter's needs, either. She's not where she needs to be socially or academically, so why stay?

 

I agree. Why in blazes is a co-op slotting kids into classes based on age, anyway?

[zenjenn]

IMO, this is nuts. A co-op shouldn't be sending down dictates, about age and such, IMO. Don't most people homeschool precisely BECAUSE they don't want their child's education dictated by arbitrary rules?

[seraphina]

I agree that you made a commitment but they also made a commitment to you. I know I homeschool because I want what is best for my child. If I was in a situation like yours I would run. You don't need a coop to be a successful homeschooler, I am sure your dd will be fine. And perhaps you can find a co-op that places kids into classes based on abilities rather than age.

[jec3113]

Sounds like public school....

[jeffcolemanfamily]

I find this whole line of thinking weird for a homeschool co-op. Every homeschool co-op we have ever participated in {with the exception of one and we didn't stay there long} had kids broken up into groups of ages... so for example...

 

Nursery: newborn- 36 months

 

Preschool: 3-5ish

 

Then...

 

4/5-7 year olds

 

7-10 year olds

 

10-12 year olds

 

12-14 year olds

 

and so on...

 

And the parents always had the final say of where they wanted their child to go, regardless of age {this allowed parents of kids with special needs to put them with younger children if they needed to and advanced kids with older children, etc} But there was no grade level separating. Strange.

 

Even in our CC group right now... the kids are separated based on non-readers {emerging readers} and strong readers. It just so happens that the age ranges for those classes are: 4-8 year olds in one class and then 8-11 year olds in another class. My daughter who is 11 is making friends with the 8 and 9 year old girls in her class! Which is not a problem for us! :)

[seraphina]

Sounds like public school....

 

:iagree:

[SonshineLearner]

From a Director's point of view, there has to be a cut-off and then some variable. We have everyone according to age, and then if it's a couple of days, we'll look at it. Like in CC when I did that, there was a child whose BD was 8 days past the cut off for school. He belonged in the grade he "almost" missed..... I keep kids with their ages, not in grades below or above... unless there's a real reason. For yours, if there was room, I'd move her up. (If socially and academically she would fit in the "up" grade) ...Since it's just a few days..

[Hedgehog]

:grouphug: Tough situation.

 

This is why a homeschool co-op would drive me nuts. Too much like school - one of the reasons my dc DON'T go to school is so that they can be taught according to their academic needs, not their birthdate.

 

Have you looked around to see if there are any other co-ops/groups you could be part of, that might suit better?

[MariannNOVA]

I would be a terrible coop mom, so take what I say w/ a grain of salt.

:tongue_smilie:

 

I have been the quintessential co-op mom for the past year....and anyone who knows me would tell you that I SHOULD NOT EVER join a co-op.

 

That being said, I have come to the conclusion (just this morning, actually) that you have to stick to your guns and do what is right for your family/child. The co-op 'board', well, don't even get me started on what I am dealing with here.

 

I have always been one to vote with my feet, and I am very close to making that decision again.

[Aubrey]

I think it's fine to ask once, but then you will need to abide by the decision.

 

Or leave.

 

I can really see their side. Every homeschooler wants their dc to be in the next grade level up. They have to set a policy or it becomes a mess. You may not have been homeschooling long enough to see the other side, but you will see as the years go by.

 

I've seen it, & I still agree w/ OP. It's not like she was a peacock about it, & she DID try it their way.

 

If they let your dd move up (which seems reasonable based on her birthdate,) then it sets a precedent for all the unreasonable requests to use in their defense. They have to pick a date, and Sept. 1 makes sense. She would probably be in K if she were in school, depending on your district's policy.

 

1. School policy is flexible. Not easy to work around, but you can do it.

 

2. What does ps have to do w/ a hs coop? I mean, I do understand the analogy, but I think we need to stop & ask ourselves if we WANT to use it, kwim?

 

When you join a group, you lose a lot of the flexibility of being an individual. In order for the whole group to run well, each person has to give up a bit, or you can't have a group (that's why so many homeschool groups/co-ops fail, trust me.) So you have to decide if being in the group is worth abiding by this rule or not. Once you decide that, don't look back.

 

I agree, but there's also a point when the group has no purpose to the individual because the individual is so lost in the group's goals. I thinkt that's a better description of this situation.

 

[i don't understand the big age gap in kindergarten, though. How do they not have any students born from September of one year to May of the next? That doesn't make sense to me. The one thing I might do is check to see if they might have moved some of those students up. If so, then they aren't applying the rule evenly to begin with, and then I do think you have room to argue your side.]

 

It sounds like just the luck of the draw. They can't say, "Hey! We need more summer bdays in the K class!" It just happens that way sometimes.

 

In the meantime, I would be speaking to the directors or parents about the way the 1st graders are treating your dd, and I would be speaking to dd about how she can be a leader. No one wants their dc to be the oldest in a group, but someone's kiddos has to be. There are things to be learned, though, about leadership.

 

In general, this line of reasoning is imo just an excuse to fail certain kids--the oldest, the biggest, the smartest, whatever. Being oldest does not make a person a leader, does not make people follow them. It's an unfair burden to tell a 6yo she's responsible for the K class, to be their leader, whatever. Maybe it's a good goal in theory FOR EVERYONE but singling her out further? I wouldn't go for it.

 

I understand there's some bureaucracy involved & that some of it is somewhat necessary. (Sorry to be redundant!) But how much of that we're willing to swallow is an important question to ask. Why pull a kid from a ps bureaucracy just to drop them in a coop bureaucracy?

[MariannNOVA]

Pencil Pusher wrote: I agree, but there's also a point when the group has no purpose to the individual because the individual is so lost in the group's goals. I thinkt that's a better description of this situation.

 

I understand there's some bureaucracy involved & that some of it is somewhat necessary. (Sorry to be redundant!) But how much of that we're willing to swallow is an important question to ask. Why pull a kid from a ps bureaucracy just to drop them in a coop bureaucracy?

 

I agree with the above. I am frankly tired of being met with non-answers when I ask questions that make perfect sense. I don't want the co-op leader to 'agree' with me - that is not what I am looking for. I want to know WHY. The lack of WHY to me is the bureaucracy at work.

[Dmmetler]

Can you ask for a trial in the older group, and then make a decision? This is what I do in my music group classes when a parent questions which group a child would be best in due to being on an age boundary. Usually after we see the child in both classes, it's obvious to both the parent and I where the child belongs. DD's teachers/coaches have done this several times as well, and I've never had cause to regret a placement decision made in this way.

 

It's tough for these kids who are just over or under the line at times, and it frustrates me to no end that it's usually very accepted and encouraged to leave a child in a younger age group, but bumping them up is seen as a sign of a pushy parent who doesn't know what their child needs, without any acceptance that maybe, just maybe, the parent knows their own child!

[Jenny in Florida]

When you join a group, you lose a lot of the flexibility of being an individual.

 

And that is exactly why those of us with kids who don't fit neatly into boxes usually just don't participate.

 

With my kids, given their personalities and needs, I would not join a co-op that was so rigid about age/grade definitions.

 

But, of course, I bring my own baggage to this discussion.

 

As far as your "committment" to the group, I agree with the others who pointed out that they have not honored theirs to you.

 

We had a similar story this year. My son, who is one or two years younger than all of his closest friends at church, had been promised for months that he would be allowed to move into the high school youth group this year. He's doing what we're calling ninth grade at home, anyway, and the best fit for him socially is with that group. I had volunteered to teach the high school Sunday school class (which is at a different time from youth group). The week before our religious education program was to begin, the RE director sent a message through a third party that she had changed her mind. My son would not be allowed in the high school youth group.

 

He was devastated and felt he had been betrayed. (There's more to the story, including a long list of things he'd already started working on with his friends that won't be open to him unless he's in that group.) He felt he didn't want to be in the high school class unless he was in the high school group, since he would be constantly reminded of what he was missing. When it became clear that the promises made to him and our family would not be honored, I withdrew from teaching the class. I felt entirely justified in doing so. I made my committment based on one set of circumstances. When those changed, I had no ethical issue with walking away.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Jenny in Florida

[angela in ohio]

But how much of that we're willing to swallow is an important question to ask. Why pull a kid from a ps bureaucracy just to drop them in a coop bureaucracy?

 

And that is exactly why those of us with kids who don't fit neatly into boxes usually just don't participate.

 

With my kids, given their personalities and needs, I would not join a co-op that was so rigid about age/grade definitions.

 

But, of course, I bring my own baggage to this discussion.

 

Exactly why co-ops haven't worked for us either (until this year, when we found one that seems to be working.) But if you want to join one, you start to understand that many of the rules that are "public school" are really just the rules related to managing a large number of children, and you can't avoid them in a homeschool group setting, either.

[Hedgehog]

It's tough for these kids who are just over or under the line at times, and it frustrates me to no end that it's usually very accepted and encouraged to leave a child in a younger age group, but bumping them up is seen as a sign of a pushy parent who doesn't know what their child needs, without any acceptance that maybe, just maybe, the parent knows their own child!

 

It's this situation that really gets me.. we have this at church right now.. :glare:

[TranquilMind]

Plus, it's a hs coop. Besides common sense about a 6yo, there *ought* to be at least a little built-in flexibility for people.

 

This is the reason we homeschool! There are two good academic co-ops here and we have used both of them at different seasons. My oldest has always been advanced and taken classes years in advance of her "grade level" and it has never been an issue. The directors trust that you, the parent, know what your child needs academically.

 

My son is in age-appropriate classes, though I could move him ahead. But his best friend in the co-op is in Algebra II, 3 years ahead in math. No one thinks a thing about it.

 

I would have difficulty with a co-op that had rigid rules that did not make sense, and this is one that doesn't. If your daughter is 10 days younger than the cut-off but is a more appropriate fit with the first grade class, especially BEING A GIRL, I'd have to politely make my case and insist upon it.

 

So it isn't Co-ops that are bad. It is inflexible directors/boards who mess it up for everyone.

[jplain]

Can you demonstrate to the co-op board that she is using materials at home that are appropriate for 1st graders?

 

I wouldn't be comfortable with the situation you've described. Even waiting it out a year wouldn't likely improve things enough for me, as she'll probably *still* be academically ahead of her classmates next year. My course of action would depend on how much I'd care about potentially burned bridges.

 

Unless I felt it was too risky to our involvement in future years, I'd request she be given the opportunity to move up. If my request was refused, I'd leave the co-op. I'd try to be clear that I understand the reasons for their policy. However, if the co-op is not a good fit for my child, it is my obligation to pursue other options. Our time is valuable. I can't invest a large amount of time or effort in an activity that is not challenging and/or enriching.

[LaxMom]

We were part of a co-op for six years, four of which I was a board member. We never asked ages, just grade levels so we could get an idea of how many classes we needed to offer for each grade group - e.g. 1-2, 4-6, 7th and up. Many classes were offered for overlapping grades, too, so a first grader might have a selection between a K-1 and a 1-3 class any given period. The parents would select based on where their particular first grader was academically in relation to the skills in each, or their child's interest.

 

Last year, we made the decision not to continue. We realized we were filling a need of the co-op more than the co-op was filling a need for us. There was a lot of pressure to stay, and friends were really upset about our decision, but it was the best one for us.

 

We homeschool because our decisions put our family and the needs of our children first. It seemed absurd to keep up an activity that put us second in the name of homeschooling.