Wow..these statistics are disturbing

[choirfarm]

There was an article in the local paper that was really disturbing. To enter cc, you must either have a decent score on your SAT/ACT or take the THEA (or accuplacer). My boys took the THEA last April. They were in 8th and 10th. Their writing was fine, but they topped out on the math and English tests. Well,out of 98 student from the class of 2011 that enrolled in classes at cc from our high school, only 52 passed all sections and didn't have to take remedial classes. That is depressing. The scores were very similar for local schools. They listed 16 different districts around us. The average for all of them was 63 percent that were ready. The top district had 25 out of 30 that were ready for cc. What I find scary as well is that our school had a little over 200 graduate in 2011. So almost half of them went to our cc. I'm sure some didn't go anywhere at all and some dropped out. Wow... So even if I'm not covering everything like I wish to, I'm doing a lot better if my 8th grader was ready for college work!! Good grief. My freshman boy said, "Mom, I'm not smart either. I'm just average!! But that test was really easy. That is really sad!" I must say that I agree.

 

Christine

Edited September 25, 2011 by choirfarm

[Teachin'Mine]

It took reading your post a couple of times to realize that you mean these are students who have already graduated high school - not dual enrolled. Hopefully those students will take the remedial classes and continue from there. The job market is bleak for those with a hs diploma and no skills.

[choirfarm]

Sorry, I was trying to type that and had to leave for church in 20 minutes. Yes, that was 98 kids that GRADUATED in 2011 are going to our local community college. ( And that is about half of the kids that graduated from our school) 46 of them needed remedial classes!!! I should have put that part about my kids later in the paragraph. My boys were SO scared about their CC class and if they would be able to keep up. My oldest told me that their teacher has done everything humanly possible for them not to fail and yet many are... they just aren't doing any work. She reviewed them right before an exam and gave out candy to those that got the right answer. My two boys were the only ones who received any...

[Teachin'Mine]

Sorry, I was trying to type that and had to leave for church in 20 minutes. Yes, that was 98 kids that GRADUATED in 2011 are going to our local community college. ( And that is about half of the kids that graduated from our school) 46 of them needed remedial classes!!! I should have put that part about my kids later in the paragraph. My boys were SO scared about their CC class and if they would be able to keep up. My oldest told me that their teacher has done everything humanly possible for them not to fail and yet many are... they just aren't doing any work. She reviewed them right before an exam and gave out candy to those that got the right answer. My two boys were the only ones who received any...

 

Oh no - your writing was fine! I was just assuming that this was for dual enrolled students and then realized that you were referring to those who graduated. :tongue_smilie: Oh my - I never thought I'd hear of a college professor giving out candy as an incentive to college students ... :blink:

[Dana]

Oh no - your writing was fine! I was just assuming that this was for dual enrolled students and then realized that you were referring to those who graduated. :tongue_smilie: Oh my - I never thought I'd hear of a college professor giving out candy as an incentive to college students ... :blink:

 

One of my graduate professors gave us Hersey's kisses after tests. A's got a kiss when their test was returned, then after all tests were returned everyone got one :)

 

I'm teaching remedial math at the cc. Many students will fail. They don't do the work, don't ask questions. I have two homework assignments due tomorrow. Over half of the class hasn't started the 2nd assignment - and they've had since Wednesday when it was assigned.

 

It is discouraging.

 

But I also have students who are really hard workers and are learning things they wouldn't otherwise have known. They're the ones I'm there to teach. In some cases they're coming to school against some astounding obstacles.

 

My issues are with the students who think that by paying for a course they are paying for the credits rather than for an opportunity to learn the material.

[K-FL]

I'm teaching remedial math at the cc. Many students will fail. They don't do the work, don't ask questions. I have two homework assignments due tomorrow. Over half of the class hasn't started the 2nd assignment - and they've had since Wednesday when it was assigned.

 

 

 

In your opinion, why do you think they're doing this? Do you think they have an entitlement mentality or are they just going through the motions to make mom & dad happy? After all, someone's paying for the classes and in FL, the Bright Futures $$ doesn't cover any remedial classes so it's on the student's/family's dime.

:bigear:

[Sunshine State Sue]

I would love to get my hands on that kind of statistics for our CC.

[regentrude]

But I also have students who are really hard workers and are learning things they wouldn't otherwise have known. They're the ones I'm there to teach. In some cases they're coming to school against some astounding obstacles.

 

My issues are with the students who think that by paying for a course they are paying for the credits rather than for an opportunity to learn the material.

 

:iagree:

my experience as well

[Dana]

In your opinion, why do you think they're doing this? Do you think they have an entitlement mentality or are they just going through the motions to make mom & dad happy? After all, someone's paying for the classes and in FL, the Bright Futures $$ doesn't cover any remedial classes so it's on the student's/family's dime.

:bigear:

 

I've been doing this for well over a decade.

 

I think a significant number of them think that because they're passed through high school courses for showing up, the same thing will happen in college. I have a number of students who still question my no make up policy for exams (but my case is special!). (In really extenuating circumstances I may make an exception with prior knowledge... but don't just catch me at the next class and ask when your make up exam is.)

So here it's both entitlement (I'm so special), prior experience (students don't fail or if they do they get extra chances), and a bit of no clue about the real world (or thinking school isn't the real world and so consequences don't apply).

 

Student loans cover a LOT. I don't think the students get clear enough counseling before borrowing. It would be good if loan counseling were completely separate from the college because honestly we have a vested interest in getting students in.

 

There definitely are some at the cc to placate their parents. I have a friend who teaches English who has had students say that to her that explicitly. In one case a student intended to flunk out so his parents would not force him to be in school any longer.

 

I really don't understand why they continue to stick around and not make changes. It's terribly frustrating because I so want them to succeed, but I will not pass a student who isn't prepared for the next course. I told them explicitly what to do last Monday (start homework at this time, take quiz at this time, do homework in this manner, get help in these locations) and still... it's not happening. I'm teaching an internet course. I had 4 students whose course was paid for (probably over $600) and they missed the required orientation and were dropped. Some who attended the orientation haven't gotten me the required information (and were dropped) and a couple haven't logged into the required software to do the homework (due today) and will be dropped. Why waste their time & money?

Magical thinking.... same as what causes a lot of financial, political, and personal problems. Frustrating, frustrating, and frustrating. (And a culture of ignorance.)

 

I really really hate it when students choose to fail. It is so incredibly rare that I have a student who does the work I require of them who doesn't pass. Far far more often they just don't do the work, then fail despite everything I try to do.

[regentrude]

In your opinion, why do you think they're doing this? Do you think they have an entitlement mentality or are they just going through the motions to make mom & dad happy? After all, someone's paying for the classes and in FL, the Bright Futures $$ doesn't cover any remedial classes so it's on the student's/family's dime.

:bigear:

 

I observe the same in my classes - this is not a CC, but a 4 year university, and not a remedial course.

One major issue: Students have been spoiled by easy A's in high school. They have been conditioned to receive top grades with little effort, and have gotten used to negotiating for extra credit etc.

Just last week, I had a talk with a student who is on the way to failing my class because he does not do the homework. He does not have a heavy course load- but balked at the notion that he should put in two hours outside of class for every hour of lecture: "I would go crazy if I had to work that much". Yep, that's what he said when I told him that this is what it takes.

Another student wanted to retake the in-class timed exam: he did not finish, but said he now knew how to work the problems and whether I could have him do the test over. This must have worked at some point in high school, or he would not entertain such a crazy notion.

 

I think most of the student I encounter truly WANT to go to college and work in the field they study (I have never talked to anybody where I sense that all they were doing was fulfill parental expectations. They are, however, not prepared (and I do not mean content-wise):

They are not prepared to work independently, to take initiative for their education (read the book and take notes? go to tutoring? ask for help?), and they are not prepared to view college as a full time job.

I blame the high schools for conditioning them to be passive and expect to be spoon fed. Not sure whom I can blame for the attitude that being a student is something you can fit in between sleeping and partying.

 

And, like Dana said: this is not true for all students. there are students who are working hard and are dedicated and whom it is a pleasure to teach, even though they struggle. Getting them to succeed is what makes my job worthwhile.

Edited September 25, 2011 by regentrude

[choirfarm]

. They are, however, not prepared (and I do not mean content-wise):

They are not prepared to work independently, to take initiative for their education (read the book and take notes? go to tutoring? ask for help?), and they are not prepared to view college as a full time job.

.

 

This is EXACTLY what I am working on with my 9th grader and my literature co-op. They have to read To Kill a Mockingbird and complete an assignment on it analyzing character, plot, etc. Nothing is due the next time they meet, but it will be due in 2 1/2 weeks after we last met. This is part of the e-mail I sent:

 

I could tell that the class had definitely read the material as we had some good discussions. The main problem I think the boys in particular are having is not reading the directions for what is expected carefully enough. Very typical for high school boys!!! Part of the purpose of ELO is to help them get used to someone else other than mom giving them deadlines and expectations. It will help them manage their time as well. Whether your child will go to college or straight into the work force, these are skills that they will need. I handed out a calendar, and we discussed managing their time since they have an off week this week.

 

Here is what I plan to do with my own 9th grade boy:

 

We are going to sit down with his notebook.

I will ask, "What do you have to do for literature before we meet again?"

"Read half of To Kill a Mockingbird."

" Anything else?"

" Oh, we have to write some stuff."

"What stuff?"

"Oh, I dunno.. You're making us do some stupid stuff about characters and plot."

Making myself ignore that comment, I will say, "Let's look at the actual assignment." We look at the homework 3 assignment and the list. WE ALSO LOOK AT THE RUBRIC THAT IS ON LESSON 4 TO SEE HOW IT WILL BE GRADED.

"That's dumb. I just like reading the book. Why do I have to do all this?"

"Well, first of all that is what has been assigned. But second of all, there are several reasons for reading a book. One of them is for pleasure, and you do a lot of that. But you are so smart! I'm asking you to go a step deeper now that you are in high school. I want you to dissect the story much like you will be dissecting a frog in Biology! God made some very creative people. What did they do to make such a good story? You might think they could have done some things better! Great! God wants us to use our brains when we read. Every book has a message and a worldview they want you to agree with. Reading passively might cause you to fall for some wrong philosophies. ( Parents, we will get into themes and worldviews a little later, but we will touch on it as we go as well.) In the past I've given you worksheets about the books. I want you to be able to analyze and evaluate the book on your own without worksheets."

" Whatever.."

Ignoring his lack of enthusiasm, I continue. "This seems like a pretty big assignment. Get out your calendar. I would like you to put when you will read and when you will write some of the sections on the calendar I gave you. " (LET THEM DO THIS. Go fold laundry or help another child. Come back and look at what they wrote. )

"Did you get everything on there?" ( Notice I didn't say, " When will you write the character list? ") Have him go back over the rubric and make sure he puts every requirement on his calendar. Now life WILL happen, but if they have everything on the calendar, then when it does, he will realize that he needs to double up on what he thought they might have to do on a particular day.

 

 

 

Now the conversation I REALLY had with him was actually better than the one I thought would happen. However, he wanted ME to fill in all the dates on his calendar. I refused. I told him it was HIS responsibility and I won't always be there. My 16yo has this skill down. He occasionally misjudges, but for the most part he plans out and does him assignments in a timely manner. Anyway, it isn't just a ps problem....

 

Christine

[kiana]

Just last week, I had a talk with a student who is on the way to failing my class because he does not do the homework. He does not have a heavy course load- but balked at the notion that he should put in two hours outside of class for every hour of lecture: "I would go crazy if I had to work that much". Yep, that's what he said when I told him that this is what it takes.

 

A friend of mine got 'If I haven't learned it after lecture, that means you aren't doing your job. It isn't fair of you to penalize us on the exams because you don't want to do your job.'

 

Yep, student thought that all the learning activities for the semester should be carried out in class.

[regentrude]

I really really hate it when students choose to fail. It is so incredibly rare that I have a student who does the work I require of them who doesn't pass. Far far more often they just don't do the work, then fail despite everything I try to do.

 

Dana, once again I could have said exactly every.single.word of this.

 

Physics is considered a hard class, yet almost all of my students are intellectually capable of passing. Every single student who failed over the past few semesters had missed assignments: either not done some homework, or missed class and an in-class quiz or several. It is extremely rare for a student who attends every class and does the required work to fail.

[Teachin'Mine]

One of my graduate professors gave us Hersey's kisses after tests. A's got a kiss when their test was returned, then after all tests were returned everyone got one :)

 

I'm teaching remedial math at the cc. Many students will fail. They don't do the work, don't ask questions. I have two homework assignments due tomorrow. Over half of the class hasn't started the 2nd assignment - and they've had since Wednesday when it was assigned.

 

It is discouraging.

 

But I also have students who are really hard workers and are learning things they wouldn't otherwise have known. They're the ones I'm there to teach. In some cases they're coming to school against some astounding obstacles.

 

My issues are with the students who think that by paying for a course they are paying for the credits rather than for an opportunity to learn the material.

 

That's sweet! :001_smile: Different from dangling carrots. :tongue_smilie:

[Dana]

Dana, once again I could have said exactly every.single.word of this.

 

 

I'm just dreadfully discouraged right now. I hate caring more than they do.

Try to focus on the good ones (and I've got 2 in particular who are awesome). But it's the poor ones who are going to cause trouble. :glare:

[creekland]

I observe the same in my classes - this is not a CC, but a 4 year university, and not a remedial course.

One major issue: Students have been spoiled by easy A's in high school. They have been conditioned to receive top grades with little effort, and have gotten used to negotiating for extra credit etc.

Just last week, I had a talk with a student who is on the way to failing my class because he does not do the homework. He does not have a heavy course load- but balked at the notion that he should put in two hours outside of class for every hour of lecture: "I would go crazy if I had to work that much". Yep, that's what he said when I told him that this is what it takes.

Another student wanted to retake the in-class timed exam: he did not finish, but said he now knew how to work the problems and whether I could have him do the test over. This must have worked at some point in high school, or he would not entertain such a crazy notion.

 

I think most of the student I encounter truly WANT to go to college and work in the field they study (I have never talked to anybody where I sense that all they were doing was fulfill parental expectations. They are, however, not prepared (and I do not mean content-wise):

They are not prepared to work independently, to take initiative for their education (read the book and take notes? go to tutoring? ask for help?), and they are not prepared to view college as a full time job.

I blame the high schools for conditioning them to be passive and expect to be spoon fed. Not sure whom I can blame for the attitude that being a student is something you can fit in between sleeping and partying.

 

And, like Dana said: this is not true for all students. there are students who are working hard and are dedicated and whom it is a pleasure to teach, even though they struggle. Getting them to succeed is what makes my job worthwhile.

 

It is really depressing to know that the high school where I work is, indeed, average. I know you don't have any students from our high school, nor are they down in TX trying for a cc, but what everyone describes is exactly what happens - teaching a huge portion of fully capable kids to not study/work/try. Our school goes even further by having implemented our College in the High School classes so kids can graduate thinking they have actually earned college credits with little effort (then sometimes test into remedial classes).

 

It's incredibly frustrating to be honest.

[LibraryLover]

If your CC is not in an economically deprived area, I would consider that many of those students have learning disabilities that were never addressed.

 

It's not the first time here I've said this here: I believe learning disabilites, such as dysgraphia & dyselixa, are more common than autism. The schools are not prepared to teach these kids, and most do not have the resources or talent to do so. LDs do not mean one isn't bright, but it does mean one often needs remedial studies. CCs in the US have traditionally taken up this slack.

 

Further, teens who test well , with high SAT scores etc., are not likely to attend CC.

 

CC is for the disadvantaged, for the most part, the older (often quite committed) adult learners perparing for 4 yr undergrad degrees, or young teens who do dual enrollement etc.

Edited September 26, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Serenade]

A friend of mine got 'If I haven't learned it after lecture, that means you aren't doing your job. It isn't fair of you to penalize us on the exams because you don't want to do your job.'

 

 

 

I think this thinking is very common in the public schools. If students fail, it is often blamed on the teachers -- that they're not doing their jobs. It is rare to hear that students should accept or share the blame.

[creekland]

If your CC is not in an economically deprived area, I would consider that many of those students have learning disabilities that were never addressed.

 

 

That's not the case here. Kids are checked for learning disabilities (sometimes more than once) if they are not meeting benchmarks.

 

The most common problem overall (IMO) is student apathy. Most will NOT put forth any effort to actually try to learn something outside of class. Some won't even put forth effort during class. But if their grades suffer, then mommy and daddy get mad - not usually at the student, but rather, at the teacher. When mommy and daddy get mad, they complain to the school. The school discusses it with the teacher. The teacher takes enough heat that they end up dumbing down the class. Eventually, almost all classes have been dumbed down to the point where it's possible for pretty much everyone to pass - yet know almost nothing.

 

This leads to the second problem. There are some kids out there who are capable of learning more and willing (or pushed) ;) to put extra work into it. Since these kids tend to be in the minority numbers-wise, there isn't much available at "average" schools (like mine) for them. At my school, the top level classes are almost always dumbed down so much that even capable, willing-to-work kids don't have to work much and don't learn much because it isn't presented. Sometimes the issue lies with the teacher who doesn't want to provide deeper material and sometimes it's the system that determines what is, and isn't, presented in a class. So, these kids graduate with top GPAs, but not actually knowing the material most in academia would consider worth top grades. Then they test into remedial courses or don't have the SAT/ACT scores to get in at higher level colleges.

 

I recently had an intelligent young lady (senior) in my advanced chem class (I sub) tell me she wanted to become a doctor and go pre-med at her undergrad school. She had some nice schools on her list including one Ivy. Her SAT score? 1560 (all three sections). Even if she were the really, really, lucky one to get into an Ivy with that score, what are the chances that she's been prepared well enough to compete with the other students? There's no learning disability... it's the system. Who knows what she's have been capable of if she'd been challenged appropriately along the way.

[Gwen in VA]

This leads to the second problem. There are some kids out there who are capable of learning more and willing (or pushed) to put extra work into it. Since these kids tend to be in the minority numbers-wise, there isn't much available at "average" schools (like mine) for them. At my school, the top level classes are almost always dumbed down so much that even capable, willing-to-work kids don't have to work much and don't learn much because it isn't presented. Sometimes the issue lies with the teacher who doesn't want to provide deeper material and sometimes it's the system that determines what is, and isn't, presented in a class. So, these kids graduate with top GPAs, but not actually knowing the material most in academia would consider worth top grades. Then they test into remedial courses or don't have the SAT/ACT scores to get in at higher level colleges.

 

This is so sad. What you have written matches what my kids and I have seen, but it's depressing.

 

How can the system be changed? Something must change, right?

 

I know, this is one of the [many] reasons that we homeschool -- so we can not only teach the material we want in the way we think best, but we can truly challenge our kids.

[butterflymommy]

Sorry, I was trying to type that and had to leave for church in 20 minutes. Yes, that was 98 kids that GRADUATED in 2011 are going to our local community college. ( And that is about half of the kids that graduated from our school) 46 of them needed remedial classes!!!

 

Where I live, the most recent statistics are 70%+ of locally/ publicly graduated students need remedial instruction when entering city colleges. Honestly, with those numbers, why bother with high school at all?

 

Not to mention the money spent on public school where I live is astronomical, more than $20k per student.

[Nan in Mass]

Here, health insurance is a factor. Community college health insurance is cheap compared to other options, and families, with their children running around in cars partying, not unnaturally insist that they be insured. Ug. Many families in my area have a policy of full-time student OR full-time work OR part-time both. An apathetic high school graduate usually picks full-time student and hopes for the best. Sigh. The amount of apathy is astonishing. Yes, there are plenty of students who are not apathetic, but that still leaves plenty of room for lots who are.

Nan

[choirfarm]

I also wonder if it is linked to economics. Here in our district 58 percent of the students are considered economically disadvantaged. Then in the paper they also said that 60 percent of the kids qualify for free lunch. The numbers for surrounding districts are anywhere from 55 percent to 70 percent. That high school that did "well" with 80 percent of their kids passing only has a 33 percent economically disadvantaged. In our district there is a HUGE number of single moms and then tons of Hispanic students...many of their parents do not speak English. OUr ESL program is huge. And we are in East Texas not South Texas. I'm not sure what the answer is but I'm not sure that schools can fix a societal problem... We are a rural community here.

 

Christine

[creekland]

This is so sad. What you have written matches what my kids and I have seen, but it's depressing.

 

How can the system be changed? Something must change, right?

 

 

 

PA is trying to set a bottom denominator for grade by starting a Keystone State test system. Budget cuts have hurt this a bit and there are issues that it doesn't allow for those who aren't capable of the bottom denominator, but still deserve some sort of high school diploma, but overall, I like what is going on. Our school has had to work to figure out how to get our kids to pass these tests and it has improved the classroom overall (so far). It's going to be a tough road though, with a lot of resistance from our "leaders" who assure parents that their kids are top of the top and the tests just don't show it...

 

Many of our better teachers retired when they saw what was happening and were forced to dumb down their classes.

[Nan in Mass]

Our CC serves a large immigrant population. The college has done a great job setting it up so that these people have help negotiating the whole application process. It is possible to say, "I am going to sign up for college today," and go to the school and have it actually happen, provided one's English is good enough and one has enough basic education. I admire the prof's and administration very much. GRIN I don't think it hurts the spoiled kids from the suburbs to see the how hard some of their fellow students are working. There was one day when they offered "ice skating"! A crew came in and set up a special slippery floor and racks and racks of ice skates. My children, who can skate out our back door if the weather has been cooperative, thought the whole undertaking was crazy but we looked later and the "rink" was full of laughing students from hot places trying to hold each other up and crashing into each other.

Nan

[creekland]

Our CC serves a large immigrant population. The college has done a great job setting it up so that these people have help negotiating the whole application process. It is possible to say, "I am going to sign up for college today," and go to the school and have it actually happen, provided one's English is good enough and one has enough basic education. I admire the prof's and administration very much. GRIN I don't think it hurts the spoiled kids from the suburbs to see the how hard some of their fellow students are working. There was one day when they offered "ice skating"! A crew came in and set up a special slippery floor and racks and racks of ice skates. My children, who can skate out our back door if the weather has been cooperative, thought the whole undertaking was crazy but we looked later and the "rink" was full of laughing students from hot places trying to hold each other up and crashing into each other.

Nan

 

CCs are a valuable segment of our educational system. No one is denying or criticizing that. The only "issue" I see is when our public schools do not provide enough of an education for such a large percentage of high school graduates to test into college level courses at a cc or otherwise.

 

I just finished talking with another top student - a friend of my middle son and one who was equally as academically talented in his younger years and who could be equally as capable now. His SAT is 1100 (M/CR only) which is a high score for my school, but not sufficient enough for him to get into the college he most wants to attend. They have a minimum of 520 in reading to apply. His 500 is just shy of it. These things should not be happening IMO.

[Nscribe]

Add to these stats the 1/4 or so who drop out of highshool and it really doesn't bode well.

[choirfarm]

Add to these stats the 1/4 or so who drop out of highshool and it really doesn't bode well.

 

Yep.. there are normally close to 300 that start in kindergarten. We had 217 graduate.

[Kirsten in MO]

That's not the case here. Kids are checked for learning disabilities (sometimes more than once) if they are not meeting benchmarks.

The most common problem overall (IMO) is student apathy. Most will NOT put forth any effort to actually try to learn something outside of class. Some won't even put forth effort during class. But if their grades suffer, then mommy and daddy get mad - not usually at the student, but rather, at the teacher. When mommy and daddy get mad, they complain to the school. The school discusses it with the teacher. The teacher takes enough heat that they end up dumbing down the class. Eventually, almost all classes have been dumbed down to the point where it's possible for pretty much everyone to pass - yet know almost nothing.

 

 

My husband and I were considering putting our youngest (9th grade) in public school this year. In Missouri, if you want them to graduate they have to enter in 9th grade, or you must have used an accredited curriculum in order to receive credit for high school courses done at home if you enroll them past 9th grade. The school required that my son be "tested" by them, to which my husband took great exception. So he scheduled a meeting with the principal and the counselor, and went armed with questions such as:

"Why does he need to be tested if all ninth graders are required to take the same courses? "

"What is the purpose of the test?"

"Who sees the results? "

"How exactly are the results used?"

Amazingly, they did not have the answers to those questions, other than to say that they wanted to "ensure that my son would succeed." My husband replied, "That is my job and my son's job." They stared at him with open mouths. I'm not sure if they have ever had a parent tell them that before.

 

As far as the testing, since they had no real quantitative reasons that they could articulate, they said that they would waive it and would accept my son's 8th grade Iowa test scores. In the end, we decided to keep him home, but the whole process was enlightning.

 

My sons have a good friend who attends this school (senior) and when I spoke with him the other day he told me he was taking some "honors" classes...but then added that he hadn't even had any homework yet (he said that the class discussions are very rigorous though!). No homework in honors classes? Really? This school gets out at 2:30...

Maybe student apathy has just caused the teachers to give up on really trying to challenge them.

 

Kirsten

Edited September 26, 2011 by Kirsten in MO
tried to fix quote (guess I need to learn how to quote)

[choirfarm]

Our CC serves a large immigrant population. The college has done a great job setting it up so that these people have help negotiating the whole application process. It is possible to say, "I am going to sign up for college today," and go to the school and have it actually happen, provided one's English is good enough and one has enough basic education.Nan

 

 

I agree. Our cc is REALLY good with international students. I think they are automatically accepted or somethin. Many, many start here. My friend has a girl from Russia living with her. We have a family from Africa that is attending our church. There are two brothers and a sister who have/are attending. The girl transferred successfully to a 4year place and is now working on her master's degree. So obviously, the education can be good for those that work. I think they have the biggest problem in the introductory classes. My guess is that with each level of Spanish, their classes will get smaller and harder!

 

Christine

[creekland]

My sons have a good friend who attends this school (senior) and when I spoke with him the other day he told me he was taking some "honors" classes...but then added that he hadn't even had any homework yet (he said that the class discussions are very rigorous though!). No homework in honors classes? Really? This school gets out at 2:30...

Maybe student apathy has just caused the teachers to give up on really trying to challenge them.

 

Kirsten

 

We have several [top] classes with little or no homework. In some kids don't even have to take their book home (and yes, we have enough books for all). Apathy by the majority and the push for good grades anyway has ruined a bit for the top minority.

 

I talked with one of our best math teachers before he retired (to teaching at a local 4 year college) and asked him why he was leaving us. He told me he was tired of it all. A few years back he could assign more challenging problems and the kids would go home and work on them - usually figuring them out. He also taught our AP Calc and used to get some great scores. Then, over the years, apathy set in and less kids would care/work. He tried failing them, but then the admin and guidance got involved... so he had to quit even assigning the challenging questions. Scores dropped accordingly. He didn't like what he saw and teaching [in high school] was no longer fun for him. He was tired of it all. So, he moved on to the 4 year college (a top tier college). I haven't heard from him since, but I still miss him as a teacher - the way he could be when I first met him.

[Nan in Mass]

: ) I know that. The first sentence was in response to choirfarm's wonderings about the proportion of immigrants in CC, and the rest was just wonderment at the job our CC does. I can see how it might have come across as defensive. Sorry. I know the original post and most of this thread has been about highschool statistics rather than cc statistics. Your posts about teaching hold a sort of horrible fascination for me. I always read them and think how amazing it is that you can cope. And feel sad for all those students. I hope your student today is ok.

Nan

[creekland]

Your posts about teaching hold a sort of horrible fascination for me. I always read them and think how amazing it is that you can cope. And feel sad for all those students. I hope your student today is ok.

Nan

 

I do actually enjoy the job, but it is frustrating at times as well as I often want to "fix" things I see that are wrong or that could be improved. The worst part of trying to cope is having my own son choose to be part of it all after my other two were perfectly happy being out of it all and have done well. I'm hoping I can work it out for youngest to do well too. We do have a few kids who do very well. There's one this year and one in 11th grade, but they both work on learning outside of school. This is what needs to happen with youngest. The problem comes when kids do what is expected of them in class and assume they will be well-prepared. I am going to be VERY disappointed if the current 11th grader doesn't get into her top choice schools when she applies as she is very worthy of them. The main issue might be her lack of AP... everything else is there (leadership, extra curriculars, grades, standardized test scores, etc). We sometimes talk about what top schools want since I've been finding out some tidbits along the way (and here). The current senior plans to go to Wheaton (IL) and I don't see her being rejected from there. She'll do well.

 

With graduating classes in excess of 300 each year, I wish there were more living up to what they can do... but the apathy is contagious and they tend to be content getting As in their classes.

 

Today and tomorrow I'm in with our top level 11th grade English kids doing Tuesdays with Morrie (reading quietly in class, of course :glare:) and then some poetry. I won't see that student from yesterday as he's a 9th grader. I did inform his regular teacher (in person) about what went on and what I heard afterward so she can be prepared if something happens. I might be able to ask her later about how he is. I don't want to go through the grapevine with other kids as I don't want it all to get around school, etc.