Lisawa Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 And I can't help but be distracted while watching the show by the thought of "What they heck are they feeding that baby since Claire disappeared?!?!" I thought the same thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Please refresh my memory as to how Sawyer has a daughter. I vaguely remember that! Thanks! ~Holly Remember Cassie whom he conned to become a conwoman with him, but he was actually conning her for her money the whole time? She had a daughter she claims is his. She visited him once at a prison to tell him so. Sawyer said he didn't believe it but he then gave all his money to a secret account for the girl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisawa Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Oh! And what's the deal with Miles and Charlotte talking about her being "back" on the island, and about her finding where she was born?? Was I hearing that right? (Boy do I miss having cable with dvr and rewind abilities!!!) I caught that too! I was thinking this must connect those that came.... the guy with the 'special" powers didnt want to leave either..... and I cant remember his name... but the scientist guy... "new" they would "not" be able to come back.... Im sure this will become part of a new story line for next season.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Charlotte may be Annie, except her and Ben have already met, was there any undercurrent between them then? Or maybe she's from Dharma and was born on the island. The only undercurrent I detected was her shock when Ben revealed that he knew her name and info because he had someone on the freighter. I really don't think she is Annie, although the thought did cross my mind during the conversation with Miles. Do we know for sure than anyone has ever been born on the island before Aaron? Did the problem with women having babies on the island only happen after the "incident" referred to in the orientation tapes? I think its a very arbitrary rule too, so it may be another case of Ben being not entirely truthful. And turning a wheel moves the island...I hope they go into an explanation for how that works at some time. Well, Ben did imply that the energy source of the island was a big hamster on a wheel, right? :D It was just like when Desmond turned the key, which was probably the same thing that began to happen when Desmond almost didn't enter the numbers and crashed their plane, even though we didn't see it. I guess they use the electromagnetic force to move the island, it seems like whatever the wheel does specifically moves moves the island with that force. Whereas without the wheel doing whatever it does, the electromagnetic force is just released unharnessed. Thats how I'm interpreting it anyway. And when Desmond did turn the key, how come no awful things happened other than the sky turning purple and communications being shot? Wasn't he supposed to be saving the world? If no big consequences come from the electromagnetism being released, why all the fuss with entering the numbers? Just to keep communication with the rest of the world possible? No numbers have been entered since the hatch exploded, is the electromagnetism even still there? I would guess it was, so are they not controlling it now without the hatch? I think if Desmond hadn't turned the key, the entire island may have imploded, but he did turn it, so only the hatch imploded. I think another consequence of the em being released was that, for a moment, it made the island visible to the outside world. (Penny's guys in Antarctica or wherever they were.) Also, after the sky turned purple, Ben said that the sub wouldn't be able to find its way back. I think the sub was a decoy all along, and that it was NOT how people traveled to and from the island. I think the electromagnetism build up may have been required for opening the portal Ben used to transport people to and from the island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisawa Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Jack is dealing with pride issues, and being wrong... I can see why.... he didn't believe Locke when he told him a miracle was going to happen.... and that they need to stay.... then in the raft when Hurley was telling what just happened, Jack denied that the Island moved..... LOl Im responding to my own post.... :D the other thing I noticed and wanted to point out was ... not only did Jack deny that the Island moved when Hurley explained it.... he then quickly told everyone we have to lie as they saw the boat approaching...... John told him he would have to lie..... John also told him if they left.... it would eat away at him and he would want to come back..... Hes a pill popping, drunk mess.... just as John said.... and many other "truths" John said and came to light... Jack is guilt ridden I'm sure.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 The only undercurrent I detected was her shock when Ben revealed that he knew her name and info because he had someone on the freighter. I really don't think she is Annie, although the thought did cross my mind during the conversation with Miles. Do we know for sure than anyone has ever been born on the island before Aaron? Did the problem with women having babies on the island only happen after the "incident" referred to in the orientation tapes? Well, Ben did imply that the energy source of the island was a big hamster on a wheel, right? :D I think if Desmond hadn't turned the key, the entire island may have imploded, but he did turn it, so only the hatch imploded. I think another consequence of the em being released was that, for a moment, it made the island visible to the outside world. (Penny's guys in Antarctica or wherever they were.) Also, after the sky turned purple, Ben said that the sub wouldn't be able to find its way back. I think the sub was a decoy all along, and that it was NOT how people traveled to and from the island. I think the electromagnetism build up may have been required for opening the portal Ben used to transport people to and from the island. Heh. Hamster on a wheel. Thats good. :) The interplay between Ben and Locke is great to watch. So was the interplay between Jack and Sawyer when they went on their last mission together, to get Hurley. So if Desmond released the em (thanks for that abbreviation, thats a LOOOONG word to type) to keep the island from imploding...then how is there em to fuel the time travel. If it built back up, how come it doesn't need to be controlled this time? I still think there's a possibility that Charlotte is Annie and the interplay between her and Ben could fit that...or not. I'm not married to this idea, its probably wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly in FL Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Well...now I must waste more time doing some searching on-line! Smiles! ~Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Heh. Hamster on a wheel. Thats good. :) The interplay between Ben and Locke is great to watch. So was the interplay between Jack and Sawyer when they went on their last mission together, to get Hurley. Yeah, the transfer of personalities between the two has been interesting. Jack just doesn't have the same effect as Sawyer with the "Son of a b!tch", it just doesn't work for him. But Sawyer pulls off a great hero. So if Desmond released the em (thanks for that abbreviation, thats a LOOOONG word to type) to keep the island from imploding...then how is there em to fuel the time travel. If it built back up, how come it doesn't need to be controlled this time? Maybe there are two sources for the two different jobs. The source near the hatch allowed people to leave and return to the island. The source near the Orchid allows time travel. Nah. Probably not. And if I were right about the sub being a decoy, then what was the purpose of the Looking Glass? Who knows. Just thinking things through. I still think there's a possibility that Charlotte is Annie and the interplay between her and Ben could fit that...or not. I'm not married to this idea, its probably wrong. If so, where did Charlotte get the accent? I really want to see more about Annie, but I just can't twist Charlotte into being her. Subject change: And what about the visions of dead people? What is that about? I used to think they were created by the island, but now it seems they have their own agenda. Locke aka Bentham wants the O6 to return to the island. But is he in step with Christian / Jacob at that point? Because Claire (who is also in with Christian) appeared in the dream of Kate's telling her NOT to bring Aaron back. And what is Christian's relationship to Jacob? I know he said he could speak for him, but what/who does that make Jacob? And what's with all the "J" names. John, Jack, Jacob, Jeremy. Coincidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holly in FL Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Thank you! ~Holly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay in Cal Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 The dates in San Diego are the dates of the Comicon... You know, America's biggest pop culture convention! They probably will have a panel (with the actors, directors, etc) and maybe even some preview material. http://www.comic-con.org/ Of course, well over 100,000 people go now, and you're going to have to wait in line for a looooong time to get into a hot panel like Lost--and they'll probably take only the first 5,000 or something, since the biggest meeting rooms only hold about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay in Cal Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Also... If they ALL have to go back, then doesn't Walt have to go too? I like that they introduced him again. They pretty much had to remove him from the show when he hit puberty because only a few months passed on the show, but he aged 4 years. Now that "time has passed", his appearance isn't a problem any more. Hopefully he won't keep growing like a weed and will be in the next couple of seasons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejily Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Also... If they ALL have to go back, then doesn't Walt have to go too? I thought the same thing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Also... If they ALL have to go back, then doesn't Walt have to go too? Good point. Locke/Bentham had gone to see him, so that could have been his plan. But would that also mean Desmond, too? I can't see him ever going back, unless Penny went with him. (And that would work well with my theory about Desmond and Penny being Adam and Eve from the cave with time travel involved.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrianne Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I googled the name Jeremy Bentham and here is what Wikipedia has to say: Jeremy Bentham was an English jurist, philosopher, and legal and social reformer. He was a political radical, and a leading theorist in Anglo-American philosophy of law. He is best known for his advocacy of utilitarianism, for the concept of animal rights,[1][2] and his opposition to the idea of natural rights, with his oft-quoted statement that the idea of such rights is "nonsense upon stilts."[3] He also influenced the development of welfarism.[4] and of course, we know John Locke was a political philosopher. I love the use of names in the show....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrianne Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 It seemed like a rather arbitrary "rule" that whoever moves the island can never return. Didn't make much sense to me. And I don't think Ben would be willing to leave the island just to save it if he really believed he couldn't return. He sure seemed irritated with Jacob, though. How would Ben know this unless it happened before? He was not in the shack when John was told to move the island. I have a feeling Widmore is somehow involved here. Maybe this is why Widmore could not find the island? It sounds like Ben really wants revenge on Widmore, hence leaving the island.... I think the other person Sun blames is Widmore. Why else would she "join forces" with him. She is a very crafty person and I would not put it past her to use Widmore to find the island or Jin and then turn on him. Of course, finding Locke in the coffin - Yikes! I never thought. It makes me wonder though that the island heals some people Locke and allows others to get sick, Jack and Ben while there. I think somehow this is all related to Locke being in that coffin. I can't wait until the next season!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbjmeyer Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Yes, it was Locke in the coffin. How did he and Ben end up off the island and back in our time dimension? This has to be the most complex show ever written for TV... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Yes, it was Locke in the coffin. How did he and Ben end up off the island and back in our time dimension? This has to be the most complex show ever written for TV... Ben got off the island when he moved it, somehow it transported him to that desert. How Locke got off remains a mystery for now. And yes, you could definitely say its complex! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Yeah, the transfer of personalities between the two has been interesting. Jack just doesn't have the same effect as Sawyer with the "Son of a b!tch", it just doesn't work for him. But Sawyer pulls off a great hero. Maybe there are two sources for the two different jobs. The source near the hatch allowed people to leave and return to the island. The source near the Orchid allows time travel. Nah. Probably not. And if I were right about the sub being a decoy, then what was the purpose of the Looking Glass? Who knows. Just thinking things through. If so, where did Charlotte get the accent? I really want to see more about Annie, but I just can't twist Charlotte into being her. Subject change: And what about the visions of dead people? What is that about? I used to think they were created by the island, but now it seems they have their own agenda. Locke aka Bentham wants the O6 to return to the island. But is he in step with Christian / Jacob at that point? Because Claire (who is also in with Christian) appeared in the dream of Kate's telling her NOT to bring Aaron back. And what is Christian's relationship to Jacob? I know he said he could speak for him, but what/who does that make Jacob? And what's with all the "J" names. John, Jack, Jacob, Jeremy. Coincidence? Ok, you're right. I officially free the Charlotte is Annie line of thought. If she were Ben's lost love, the story would've went differently. I think so far as from what we've seen, what Bentham/Locke did and what the island/Jacob want appear to be in step. Apparently Locke made sure they all kept lying and tried to talk them into going back, and that wouldn't be conflicting with what the island wants...would it? I wonder what Jacob will turn out to be when we meet him. I don't know why Claire would tell Kate not to bring Aaron back unless it was just a mother worrying about the safey of her child. Maybe in the end Aaron won't go back, he just really needs to be united with and raised by his mother...somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 How would Ben know this unless it happened before? He was not in the shack when John was told to move the island. I have a feeling Widmore is somehow involved here. Maybe this is why Widmore could not find the island? It sounds like Ben really wants revenge on Widmore, hence leaving the island.... I think the other person Sun blames is Widmore. Why else would she "join forces" with him. She is a very crafty person and I would not put it past her to use Widmore to find the island or Jin and then turn on him. Of course, finding Locke in the coffin - Yikes! I never thought. It makes me wonder though that the island heals some people Locke and allows others to get sick, Jack and Ben while there. I think somehow this is all related to Locke being in that coffin. I can't wait until the next season!!!! I'm not entirely buying that if you're the one that moves the island then you can't go back. It makes no sense. I think it was Ben being "not entirely truthful" again. Manipulating Locke to do what he wanted Locke to do..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoKat Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I think you are a bit confused about Jin time-traveling to the hospital. That episode was a dual episode. Jin's hospital scene was at a different time...before the plane crash...when he worked for Sun's father. They were flipping back and forth between the scene where Jin was trying to buy a Panda for an important business man associated with his father-in-law and Sun giving birth to their son. It was not the same scene playing out. That was a good episode! ~Holly But Sun called out for Jin during her labor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Knoll Mom Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I still don't think Jin died. He was near the end of the boat and I think that he got blown into the water. He's on the island. He time travels. And he "came" to the hospital when Sun gave birth--only she still thinks he died. Your right but yet I think some of us might be thinking that the Island moved back in time so maybe Jin was able to get off and be at his daughters birth but in a different time dimension or parallel story. It doesn't make sense but we are talking about "Lost". :D Jin did go to the hospital during that episode, but it was made clear that he was there on behalf of Sun's dad (his former employer) to deliver a panda to the new child/grandchild of a Chinese diplomat. As he was leaving he told the nurse he had been married only two months. As Holly in FL said, that episode had a split timeline. They cut it together to make you think that Jin and Sun's off island story line was a flash forward, but made it clear in the end that Sun's story was a flash forward to when she has the baby with which she is now pregnant and Jin's was a flash back to just after they got married. I love Lost! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I just had another thought, several episodes ago when Christian took Claire away from Aaron, I had the same confusion....if Aaron is supposed to be with Claire then why is Christian who is speaking for Jacob seperate them. I remember in the thread here for that episode trying to talk about that. Now, I see where you are Genie, what Christian is doing seems to be seperate from what the "good guys" are doing. So maybe Christian is NOT from the island/Jacob? Maybe when he says he's speaking for Jacob, maybe somehow he's gained control of Jacob. Then if he's speaking for Jacob, then why would Christian want the island moved? This is getting way too confusing. What is up with Christian and Claire? They do seem to be working against the island afterall. Maybe. I don't know. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I think that the purpose of inputting the numbers was to periodically discharge a small amount of EM thereby preventing a build up that would cause the whole world to explode. Turning the failsafe key somehow opened a permanant discharge so that it discharged continuously or it permanantly discharged it and therefore the number did not need to be entered to do it. However, this caused the hatch to implode and the sky turn purple and temporarily disrupted the cloaking and allowed the island to be seen. Not exactly sure why the cloaking continued if the EM had been discharged. I did not see the purple when the island moved. Just the bright light and the noise and then the ocean moving. I am not sure if it was exactly the same mechanism or something different. Obviously many people were able to come and go from the island before but not sure about Ben after. It seems like he intends to take all of the people back to the island. And it seems that he is leading a hit squad that is protecting the island. Maybe since John died he can resume his rightful place as the leader? It seems that Sayid and Hurley knew about John but there was no clue that Sun did. If she did not then it seems that she was the only one that did not know. That seems unlikely. Perhaps her conversation with Widmore was some kind of ploy involving going back to the island? That would make Kate the only one firmly opposed to going. Hurley expressed to Jack in an earlier season that the island wanted them to come back. And I think that Charlie may have told him that as well. Who knows. I am sure that we are still in for lots of twists and turns as the show goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 But Sun called out for Jin during her labor! And Jack implied his father was upstairs in a different flash forward. Stress-induced dementia maybe? Are they seeing dead people like Hurley? Except Hurley accepts it more readily, being in a mental institution and all. Oh, and do we assume that the guy that Sayid killed in the car was one of Widmore's thugs? And what is Oceanic's role in all this? That Abbadon guy, does he work for Oceanic? Or Widmore? Or does Widmore have something to do with Oceanic? Obviously Oceanic knows the "story" is false, so what is their involvement beyond self-preservation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlockOfSillies Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 :scared: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Yes, it was Locke in the coffin. How did he and Ben end up off the island and back in our time dimension? This has to be the most complex show ever written for TV... When Ben left the island he ended up in the desert where we saw him in an earlier episode. I think that it was in the future when Sayid's wife dies and he recruits Sayid to work for him. That obviously happened before the current time on last night episode. John apparently showed up about a month before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Did anyone else catch what Desmond said to Jack as they were leaving? He said I'll see you in another lifetime, brother. This was a direct reference to the situation in the stadium a few season ago. As far as I can remember that has never been explained. Perhaps that will be dealt with next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I also think, judging from what Jack said, that he is the other one Sun blames. On the other hand, maybe what Jack said is just a red herring from the writers and she really does blame Ben so she's siding with Widmore in an attempt to get revenge on Ben. I had the exact same thought, DH and I had a conversation about that. Its been quite a while since Claire died or disappeared, what the heck they feedin that baby???? No wonder he looked grumpy when Hurley grabbed him onto the raft. I think that Jack thinks that Sun blames him but he is not the person that she actually blames. I think that it is Ben that she blames. ANd see my post below as I think that will play into her talk with Widmore and going back to the island. Yes, I was asking my family out loud how they were feeding the baby last show when Sawyer was toting him around the jungle. And how does Kate explain that she is not breastfeeding. Obviously mothers were not writing the show as they would have thought of this detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I just had another thought, several episodes ago when Christian took Claire away from Aaron, I had the same confusion....if Aaron is supposed to be with Claire then why is Christian who is speaking for Jacob seperate them. I remember in the thread here for that episode trying to talk about that. Now, I see where you are Genie, what Christian is doing seems to be seperate from what the "good guys" are doing. So maybe Christian is NOT from the island/Jacob? Maybe when he says he's speaking for Jacob, maybe somehow he's gained control of Jacob. Then if he's speaking for Jacob, then why would Christian want the island moved? This is getting way too confusing. What is up with Christian and Claire? They do seem to be working against the island afterall. Maybe. I don't know. :confused: Right! And I questioned that in a previous thread wondering why Libby appeared to be pleading for Michael to NOT do what it seemed like Ben wanted him to do. Whether that was really an apparition of her or just in Michael's imagination. Maybe Christian does have control of Jacob, and that is why Jacob said "Help me" to John. But John can't see through Christian yet. Christian may want the island moved so that the O6 can't easily come back and help John help Jacob. That was John/Jeremy's story, right? That things went terribly wrong on the island after O6 left and it moved. Maybe John realized that Christian is a bad guy and he needs the O6's to help him defeat Christian. And the whole Aaron raised by another, not raised by another conflict is so confusing. If Claire is supposed to raise him, and Christian stopped her from doing that, then again Christian seems bad. If Kate is not supposed to raise him, then why is Claire telling her to basically keep him? Because she's "working" with Christian and he's bad? Aaron as Moses raised by a Pharaoh (Jack) but to eventually fulfill his legacy of freeing his people. Yet, Jack is also a Moses, who led his people, but due to his own shortcomings, never gets to enter the promised land. Christian being the deceiver, and not a Shepherd at all. Good stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Did anyone else catch what Desmond said to Jack as they were leaving? He said I'll see you in another lifetime, brother. This was a direct reference to the situation in the stadium a few season ago. As far as I can remember that has never been explained. Perhaps that will be dealt with next year. Actually, didn't Jack say that to Desmond last night? I think it was just a nod to the unexpected prophetical reality of that original statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Isn't Christian dead? If he appeared to Michael then I would assume that Michael is dead too, Claire is probably dead and the other person who saw him, John Locke, is now dead. Whoever sees Christian then dies?! So Christian is more like a ghost who turns other people into ghosts? Yeah, I don't think that this line of reasoning works as we know that Jack, Hurley and Ben all saw Christian and as far as we know they are still alive. Of course, that doesn't mean that they won't die but what would the show be without those three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in the Kootenays Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I don't get to watch until tonight. This is killing me:glare:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WagsWife Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I think you are a bit confused about Jin time-traveling to the hospital. That episode was a dual episode. Jin's hospital scene was at a different time...before the plane crash...when he worked for Sun's father. They were flipping back and forth between the scene where Jin was trying to buy a Panda for an important business man associated with his father-in-law and Sun giving birth to their son. It was not the same scene playing out. That was a good episode! ~Holly Exaclty! Sun was flash forwarding, and Jin was flash backing (is that a word?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I think that the purpose of inputting the numbers was to periodically discharge a small amount of EM thereby preventing a build up that would cause the whole world to explode. Turning the failsafe key somehow opened a permanant discharge so that it discharged continuously or it permanantly discharged it and therefore the number did not need to be entered to do it. However, this caused the hatch to implode and the sky turn purple and temporarily disrupted the cloaking and allowed the island to be seen. Not exactly sure why the cloaking continued if the EM had been discharged. Was the Looking Glass Hatch used for this purpose, or was it only for blocking communications on and off the island? And again, if the em has been discharged, what are they powering the time travel with? And what is Oceanic's role in all this? That Abbadon guy, does he work for Oceanic? Or Widmore? Or does Widmore have something to do with Oceanic? Obviously Oceanic knows the "story" is false, so what is their involvement beyond self-preservation? I haven't even begun to speculate about the merest possibilites of what Oceanic's role is in all this. It may indeed just be a case of them trying to save their reputation from damage if it became known that the plane "found" in the trench was a fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I haven't even begun to speculate about the merest possibilites of what Oceanic's role is in all this. It may indeed just be a case of them trying to save their reputation from damage if it became known that the plane "found" in the trench was a fake. But we do know that there is some link between Oceanic and the Hanso Foundation, right? From a couple of seasons ago? And there is a link between Hanso and Widmore through the auction of the Black Rock journal. And how did anyone get their hands on that if the Black Rock crashed on the island? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Right! And I questioned that in a previous thread wondering why Libby appeared to be pleading for Michael to NOT do what it seemed like Ben wanted him to do. Whether that was really an apparition of her or just in Michael's imagination. Maybe Christian does have control of Jacob, and that is why Jacob said "Help me" to John. But John can't see through Christian yet. Christian may want the island moved so that the O6 can't easily come back and help John help Jacob. That was John/Jeremy's story, right? That things went terribly wrong on the island after O6 left and it moved. Maybe John realized that Christian is a bad guy and he needs the O6's to help him defeat Christian. And the whole Aaron raised by another, not raised by another conflict is so confusing. If Claire is supposed to raise him, and Christian stopped her from doing that, then again Christian seems bad. If Kate is not supposed to raise him, then why is Claire telling her to basically keep him? Because she's "working" with Christian and he's bad? Aaron as Moses raised by a Pharaoh (Jack) but to eventually fulfill his legacy of freeing his people. Yet, Jack is also a Moses, who led his people, but due to his own shortcomings, never gets to enter the promised land. Christian being the deceiver, and not a Shepherd at all. Good stuff! Oh yes, the "help me"! I think we're on to something! :ohmy: You were wondering if Libby was an actual havid sent by the island or just a figment from Michael's guilty conscience. I was wondering if Claire was an actual havid sent by ??? or if she was just a figment of Kate's guilty conscience. Both seemed to deliver messages counter to what we would expect. Right? I'm kind of foggy on the Libby one, what was Michael about to do for Ben that Libby cautioned him not to do, I can't remember. So if Christian is a bad guy, then who exactly is he?? He's not really Christian, that guy is dead. So that would mean there's another powerful supernatural presence in the game. Why is dead (?) Claire on his side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn E Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 ooooh...how exciting. So many questions, so few answers. Unlike the closer of last season, this one left me very excited about the direction they are going. I still believe the two people she holds ultimately responsible for Jin's death are her father and Ben, though I wondered if she is joining with Widmore because he is the 2nd person she blames. I am sure that there are hurt feelings between her and both Jack and Kate for not getting Jin off the boat, but I don't thing her vendetta is with either of them. I think that they have done such an excellent job with character development in this show. Locke for instance is such a great character. He is so full of faith in the island and in his pursuit to save it, yet still so flawed and clueless as a leader. It is not hard to believe that things went horribly wrong with him left in charge. Also, Ben is extremely fascinating. I still don't trust anything he says, but I'm finding myself perplexed regarding his true nature. I've changed my mind about Michael. Perhaps Christian's words did signal that he was free to die now as he wanted in the first place. I still believe there is hope for Jin. And, yes, death is a very relative term on this island. We are likely to see many "dead" again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 But we do know that there is some link between Oceanic and the Hanso Foundation, right? From a couple of seasons ago? And there is a link between Hanso and Widmore through the auction of the Black Rock journal. And how did anyone get their hands on that if the Black Rock crashed on the island? Yeah, its a big tangled mess. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Hanso own or have a controlling interest in Oceanic Airlines? Do we know how Widmore came to find out about the island in the first place? I think the journal was said to have been found among artifacts from pirates. On the blast door map, there's also a point labeled Magnus Hanso/Black Rock, I've heard that thats his grave, and that he was captain of the Black Rock. And actually I think there's A LOT of connections between Hanso and the Black Rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Oh yes, the "help me"! I think we're on to something! :ohmy: You were wondering if Libby was an actual havid sent by the island or just a figment from Michael's guilty conscience. I was wondering if Claire was an actual havid sent by ??? or if she was just a figment of Kate's guilty conscience. Both seemed to deliver messages counter to what we would expect. Right? I'm kind of foggy on the Libby one, what was Michael about to do for Ben that Libby cautioned him not to do, I can't remember. So if Christian is a bad guy, then who exactly is he?? He's not really Christian, that guy is dead. So that would mean there's another powerful supernatural presence in the game. Why is dead (?) Claire on his side? Libby appeared as Michael was about to detonate the explosives on the freighter, which was what Ben had directed him to do. (But then the "Not Yet" flag popped up.) We haven't ever seen Ben and Christian in the same place. The first time Locke went to the cabin, Christian wasn't there (or wasn't visible) but Jacob was. So that certainly adds to Christian's mysteriousness. But who is he? I don't know. Does Jacob represent Good (with a capital G) and Christian represent Bad? Back to the black/white symbology of the first season? And dead (?) Claire is possibly just as deceived as John is by him. Claire wants to believe him because he's her dad. John wants to because he's treating John as if he's special. But could a dead Claire be deceived? Is deception possible beyond life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I think that they have done such an excellent job with character development in this show. Locke for instance is such a great character. He is so full of faith in the island and in his pursuit to save it, yet still so flawed and clueless as a leader. It is not hard to believe that things went horribly wrong with him left in charge. Also, Ben is extremely fascinating. I still don't trust anything he says, but I'm finding myself perplexed regarding his true nature. I love the characters in this show, I agree that the writers have done amazingly well. There are still characters that I can't decide if I even like, four seasons into it. Like Kate. The characters have many many sides and that makes them so real. I like the blurriness of good and bad that shows up in so many of the characters. And Ben, wow, I love him. He's done some awful truly reprehensible things with no regret, but he is great to watch, and I root for him, yes I do. He keeps things very very interesting. It will be interesting to see how Locke does now that he's in the leadership position. Aren't the Others such a flock of sheep??? Still waiting on Richard's true role in the whole thing, he's pretty mysterious too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I still believe the two people she holds ultimately responsible for Jin's death are her father and Ben, though I wondered if she is joining with Widmore because he is the 2nd person she blames. I am sure that there are hurt feelings between her and both Jack and Kate for not getting Jin off the boat, but I don't thing her vendetta is with either of them. Yes, but remember how relieved she was that Jack/Kate/Sayid didn't show up to take the baby to Jin's grave? I've changed my mind about Michael. Perhaps Christian's words did signal that he was free to die now as he wanted in the first place. I still believe there is hope for Jin. And, yes, death is a very relative term on this island. We are likely to see many "dead" again. Of course, Hurley mentioned keep Michael safe when he was talking to Walt. He had to know Michael was on the ship that exploded. Was he protecting Walt? Does he not believe Michael is dead? Or does he not believe dead is dead? Or does he really believe he himself is dead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Was the Looking Glass Hatch used for this purpose, or was it only for blocking communications on and off the island? And again, if the em has been discharged, what are they powering the time travel with? I think that the whole purpose of the looking glass was to block the communications. I am not sure how that ties in with the other that I was talking about. I will have to give it more thought. My head is spinning at this point. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 But now I have so much more info to think about that I am going to have to dtart keeping notes. I just hope that the tie up all the lose ends and give us all the answers before this is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I think that the whole purpose of the looking glass was to block the communications. I am not sure how that ties in with the other that I was talking about. I will have to give it more thought. My head is spinning at this point. :tongue_smilie: But the Looking Glass did have a sub docking area. I'm with you on the head spinning! :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallmommitor Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Hi! I'm just jumping in to all of the comments & there's ALOT!! I think Sun is contacting Widmore to get his help in getting her back & look for Jin. She may realize by now that even though you think someone has died, they sometimes havent! And she also knows that Widmore was the one heading the big search for the island. Anyway, that's my 2 cents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabeth in IL Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Do you think that the actors know what the story is and where it is going or do you think that they are just as lost as we are? :001_smile: Is next year supposed to be the last year of Lost? I thought that I had heard that but I'm not sure. Quite frankly I'm ready for real answers by the end of next season. I love this show but it wears me out. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat in GA Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Do you think that the actors know what the story is and where it is going or do you think that they are just as lost as we are? :001_smile: Is next year supposed to be the last year of Lost? I thought that I had heard that but I'm not sure. Quite frankly I'm ready for real answers by the end of next season. I love this show but it wears me out. :glare: I read somewhere that Matthew Fox (Jack) is the only actor that has been clued in on the complete direction/ending of the show. He said that everyone asks him...including the actors...but he's mum on the whole thing. For how much longer...is it two more years? I think next year is all off the island, and the following year is back to the island...and I think that's all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn E Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Yes, but remember how relieved she was that Jack/Kate/Sayid didn't show up to take the baby to Jin's grave? Yes, I am still confused about just who she blames. She spoke to her father while she was still pregnant, so it was not terribly long after returning from the island. If she had said it at the four years later point, I would speculate that although we didn't hear mention of it, Bentham had visited her and told her of Ben's role in the explosion. Of course, it was also Widmore's men that built the bomb. So, this is just yet another mystery to be solved. Of course, Hurley mentioned keep Michael safe when he was talking to Walt. He had to know Michael was on the ship that exploded. Was he protecting Walt? Does he not believe Michael is dead? Or does he not believe dead is dead? Or does he really believe he himself is dead? I think Hurley does think Michael is dead, but didn't want to say that to Walt. Also, though, in his present state, he is pretty confused about what dead really means since he seems to be playing chess with and having conversations with "dead" folks on a regular basis. Who knows, maybe he and Libby have even rekindled their budding romance. :001_smile: Nah, he's too gloomy for that to have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umarider Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Didn't Ben mention that the island had been moved before? And if so, could it be possible that Widmore was once on the island (a leader?) and that HE moved the island and has been trying to find it ever since? Widmore and Ben both seem very possessive of the island... so does Locke. And when Locke was told to move the island, it was Christian that told him, not Jacob. Ben just assumed that Locke spoke w/ Jacob. Maybe Christian did it to trick Ben off the island and have John who seems less ruthless in his efforts to protect the island become the leader of the "others". Is Christian working for/with Widmore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genie Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Didn't Ben mention that the island had been moved before? And if so, could it be possible that Widmore was once on the island (a leader?) and that HE moved the island and has been trying to find it ever since? Widmore and Ben both seem very possessive of the island... so does Locke. And when Locke was told to move the island, it was Christian that told him, not Jacob. Ben just assumed that Locke spoke w/ Jacob. Maybe Christian did it to trick Ben off the island and have John who seems less ruthless in his efforts to protect the island become the leader of the "others". Is Christian working for/with Widmore? Hey, those are some pretty good thoughts! I'm not sure how Christian would have known that Ben would choose not to go in the cabin with Locke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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